Radek Zelenka/David Nykl Appreciation, Thunk, Translation Thread

[Snowflake]

Still loving all the pictures. You guys have some great shots posted here.


Happy Canada Day!!!

[Pajus]

Life jackets? What are they for? (Rosehawke's drool pond, maybe? Ewww, btw ...) Nah, you need something to hold the thunkers back - like those clear, electrified riot shields that they use in the ultra-high security prisons!

Love the commercial pics, too! Yup - our Radek is so pretty! <sigh>

Pond? Try ocean!

[Rosehawk]

Pond? Try ocean!

[Erin Olenko]

Gosh how I missed these posts and your wonderful pictures ladies!

Missed ya all so much!!!!

[Rosehawk]

Gosh how I missed these posts and your wonderful pictures ladies!

Missed ya all so much!!!!

Where have you been?

[Rosehawk]

well a lab rat does belong to a maze so that ain't surprising no ?

Spoiler:

just rubbin' it in

right now : white. like the colour of the flag you should be waving right about now
I accept your surrender btw -_-

NEVER!

Spoiler:

Here's your spoils *shoves at SoulRe@ver

Spoiler:

I love raspberries, you like white chocolate - truce! and it's a mouse, oops I guess that is mousse.

[SoulReaver]

Granted, rats aren't capable of the same level of problem-solving as even a cow, much less a primate or a human

you sure about that ? (where rats vs cows are concerned)
rats are amongst the few animals that successfully pass the mirror test (a very restricted group comprising apes, dolphins & elephants - and certainly not bovines). deviously clever little rodents - and (according to the general consensus in the scientific community) the best candidates for evolving into the next dominant species should humans get wiped out

Yeah, right. I didn't see you putting such an elogant argument together.

yet I did - implicitly

when I said this :

Spoiler:

awww ain't he a cute lil' lab mouse

I meant this :

Spoiler:

Actually, Radek is absofraggingloutely a lab rat -- I say this as a CSI fan (at least, before Season 7 when everything went straight to Tartarus in a reed basket). On CSI we learned a very important lesson: Lab Rats rule the world from behind the throne. If Jacqui, Hodges, Greg (pre-field days), Super Dave, Archie, Wendy, Henry, Mandy, and Ronnie had ever up and decided to stop doing what they were doing, to be sluggish about it, or even botch the results the CSIs would have been sunk. In the case of the exploding lab, they were sunk.

Now, we know that McKay is hard to work with. This is, after all, a man who was exiled to Siberia for being a such a jerk that it was worth handing his genius over to a dubious ally they didn't trust just to get rid of him. This is a man whose idea of a complement is "you're not brilliant, but you'll do," and whose idea of a gentle reprimand is cutting sarcasm. I love Rodney dearly, but he is undoubtedly the Boss of Doom. He freely admitted in "First Strike" that he didn't know enough about his staff to complete the personell reviews.

However, McKay is still in command of the Sciences division. His crew neither went to McKay's boss and said, "remove him or we walk," (which happened to a buddy of mine's hideous manager) and none of the Marines has beaten him up and/or shot him (because his contempt for the soft sciences is only surpassed by his contempt for those without science). McKay also acted like the personell review was new to him in "First Strike," and cried not that it was a waste of time but that he was not qualified to do it.

This to me seems like Radek was doing all the personell reviews on the sly, not just his own department's, and Weir finally glommed on. We also know that while McKay is the first person the Team calls, all the civillians go running to Radek ("The Brotherhood," "Tao of Rodney," "BAMSR,") and that Radek serves as the Voice of Cauton when McKay gets a little too enthusiastic ("Tao of Rodney," "McKay and Mrs. Miller," "Trinity," "The Gift"). He's also Rodney's personal therapist as much as Sheppard ("This Mortal Coil," "BAMSR"). He also provides the much-needed praise from above for the science staff ("Trinity," "McKay and Mrs. Miller").

Therefore the question arises: what would happen if Radek stopped being McKay's right hand? No more doing the boring paperwork, no more dealing with the spills and funky naquadah generators, no more smoothing ruffled soldier feathers or scientists ready to quit, no more providing encouragement for the minions, and no more talking Rodney down -- no more McKay Liason and Disaster Prevention.

Not only would Rodney be screwed, but so would Atlantis. Either the science department would revolt, or else there would be mass quitting, or else Lorne et al. would be taking McKay out for a walk around the block all the time. It's also true that Rodney's best ideas (with the exception of "BAMSR") have happened while bickering with Radek --

Spoiler:

and that his dry spot happened while he was distancing himself from Zelenka (going to briefings alone instead of taking Zelenka with as he did with Weir, working with Todd instead of Radek, telling Carter he didn't even like Radek -- and Carter believed it, so the socializing had probably been cut as well). It stopped when he pulled Radek in on the project, and then started again when he went back to distancing himself. (Since by "Trio" Carter still believed McKay's "I don't like Zelenka" and didn't call him on it like Sheppard would have.)

We also know from the type of work Radek does ("The Brotherhood," "Tao of Rodney," "Echoes," "Adrift," "BAMSR,") that he is most likely an electrical/electronic engineer. We know he doesn't have the "copyright" issues that McKay, Sam, etc. have because he lets McKay take the credit/push the buttons/do the checklists/etc. We also know that he was offered a post at a university right before he left.

Spoiler:

Sam

and Kavanagh -- both research scientists -- were very dismissive both of Radek and his abilities ("Thirty Eight Minutes," "Quarantine"). Those things to me suggest Radek has a a private-sector scientist background. A private-sector (possibly power company) background would also explain Radek's people skills and his fluency in English, since both would have been imperative if he worked in a Prague company. Given his manifest ability to command ("The Hot Zone," "McKay and Mrs. Miller," and the fact he probably did the personell reviews for McKay for two years) he had probably worked his way up to supervisor, possibly even a section super since he was good enough to be chosen for the Atlantis Expedition in the first place.

Rodney is an astrophysics major and a mechanical engineer. Setting up and maintaning a city's power grid is not within the scope of his education or experience. This is supported by the Lagrangian satellite incident -- in which he forgot the basic rule of capacity -- and the modifications he made in "Tao" -- where he forgot the basic rule of TURN OFF THE ELECTRICITY before you start working, and then work on each section of the grid one at a time. (Seriously, the fact that Radek was the ONLY one electrocuted is a frigging miracle.) Zelenka, on the other hand, seems to have power grids and electricity well in hand ("Submersion," "Tao of Rodney," "The Seige 3").

While McKay is gallivanting off-world and taking the credit, Zelenka is the one keeping the lights on back home. Therefore, as the power behind McKay's throne who works tirelessly behind the scenes to make certain the glory-takers can do what they do, and as the man rarely noticed but entirely depended on, and since the glory-takers would be completely screwed without him, Radek Zelenka is most certainly a Lab Rat serving with distinction.

obviously

Why don't you just admit that you had something to do with the tag .

well tbh I did

Spoiler:

in that whoever did it, I greatly appreciated

but I'm still guiltless nonetheless


PS. ask a mod, I bet they can find the tag authors and...uh...rat 'em out

Okay, where!

right there of course

Even sewer rats have more respect then THAT RAT!

such potent ire denotes ardent desire -
you really do have the hots for him don't you ?

Spoiler:

I'd gladly post more pics but unfortunately the web isn't rife with hi-res pics of him

No, pissed!

you mean 'peeing in his pants' - he's scared, poor little thing :/

I have not surrendered, I will never surrender....one can never convince me that Radek is a LAB RAT, never, ever, ever.

conviction is irrelevant. your opinion will adapt to mine. resistance is futile

Spoiler:

or we could find a compromise

And Radek is all steamed up because you dare think such a thing!

not steam - just hot air

! quoted !
zelenka fan using non-zelenka smilie - could come handy (hey I never said anything about blackmail (no I didn't (seriously))

Spoiler:

I love raspberries, you like white chocolate - truce! and it's a mouse, oops I guess that is mousse.

I'm good (raspberry's my fave )

[Rosehawk]

you sure about that ? (where rats vs cows are concerned)
rats are amongst the few animals that successfully pass the mirror test (a very restricted group comprising apes, dolphins & elephants - and certainly not bovines). deviously clever little rodents - and (according to the general consensus in the scientific community) the best candidates for evolving into the next dominant species should humans get wiped out

Oh great, just what we need, more hairy rats roaming the earth!

well tbh I did

Spoiler:

in that whoever did it, I greatly appreciated

but I'm still guiltless nonetheless

man, I can't stop laughing on this one, oh man, my sides are splitting, they are hurting, oh god, help me! Radek, help, help, I'm laughing so hard....oops I just fell to the floor and bumped my knee...at least Radek is here to offer some TLC.

Guiltless, yeah right, that was a good one SoulRe@ver!

PS. ask a mod, I bet they can find the tag authors and...uh...rat 'em out


so you resent me more than you resent the culprit ?

now you're hurting my feelings

do you really want to hurt my feelings ?

LOL! Gads, that was funny, I knew it was coming and it was still funny!

I do not resent you my dear, I could never ever resent you, you just need to acknowlege your complicity in this whole situation.
I do believe you are right, a mod could tell us who did the tag, but then it wouldn't be fun anymore!

such potent ire denotes ardent desire -
you really do have the hots for him don't you ?

Spoiler:

I'd gladly post more pics but unfortunately the web isn't rife with hi-res pics of him

For Zelenka, sure, I admit that, why else would I hang out on his *THUNK* thread!

I can post tons of pics

Spoiler:

you mean 'peeing in his pants' - he's scared, poor little thing :/

Oh for heaven sakes

conviction is irrelevant. your opinion will adapt to mine. resistance is futile

You obviously don't know me that well!

! quoted !
zelenka fan using non-zelenka smilie - could come handy (hey I never said anything about blackmail (no I didn't (seriously))

Hey, I don't hide the fact that I am also a Chuck fan!

I'm good (raspberry's my fave )

OMG, we agree on something!

Radek is so happy with us that he has tears of joy coming down his face!

[Erin Olenko]

Where have you been?

I've moved to another city, got a divorce, then got a new boyfriend!

My life's been busy lately

[whiskeygirl406]

Hopefully things are working out for you, Erin! (I know you don't even know me, but you certainly have my sympathies! I went through the same situation several years ago ...) There's plenty of listening ears here, though ... none as cute as Radek's but hey, whaddaya gonna do, right?

[Erin Olenko]

Thanks whiskey! *hugs*

Go Radek!

[DragonLadyK]

you sure about that ? (where rats vs cows are concerned)
rats are amongst the few animals that successfully pass the mirror test (a very restricted group comprising apes, dolphins & elephants - and certainly not bovines). deviously clever little rodents - and (according to the general consensus in the scientific community) the best candidates for evolving into the next dominant species should humans get wiped out.

It would be really hard to give a cow the mirror test since they don't have stereoscopic vision. Even so, the mirror test measures self-awareness, not problem-solving skills: the ability to overcome obstacles to get what you want. There's also the problem that people who haven't worked with them assume because cows are livestock that they must also then be stupider than even pets.

Spoiler:

Now, granted, there are huge intelligence variance between breeds. Angus cows are completely incapable of holding onto a concept for more than two seconds at a time. I have never met a dumber breed of anything than Angus. Holsteins and Jersey cows, on the other hand, I would put over rats (but under mules and pigs) any day of the week. I worked at a dairy for two years with Holsteins and Holstein/Jersey mixes and it was like babysitting three hundred eighteen month olds.

The best example was the locking mechanism of the gates. The dairy was built with cattle gates, which are closed with a chain that rests in a notch and is then pushed through a hole. For an Angus, this is enough. The Holsteins and Jerseys, on the other hand, very quickly learned that by licking the chain, curling their tongue under it, pulling back, and lifting that they could open the gate whenever they pleased. In reply, we attached clasps to the gate and clicked the chain through the clasp -- wihtout opposable thumbs, there was no getting the gate open.

The problem arose when someone forgot to clip the chain in the hook. I'm not sure if the cows were just listening for the clasp, or if they did patrols and checked every day, but within ten minutes at most there were cows out if someone forgot to close the gate.

The other thing the cows were good at was manipulation. I tolerated no misbehavior on my shift. The new cows who were still adapting to dairy life kicked off their milkers and otherwise held things up, but after that first few weeks most of them learned that getting what they wanted (to go back to the beds/feed) was entirely dependent upon me getting what I wanted (them keeping their milker on until they were done). Old cows did not misbehave on my shift -- nor on the shifts of the two other people who brooked no nonsense.

The people who were not consistent, on the other hand, and who would just let a cow off the table if she kicked her milker off three times or who concluded a cow was too stupid to learn and therefore never bothered to teach had problems from old cows AND new cows all shift long. The cows had these people completely convinced that kicking off their milkers and refusing to get on the table was completely normal cow behavior and should therefore be completely tolerated, even though one shift before they'd behaved fine!

There is a touch of discomfort right before a milker releases itself -- it's the thing that makes a mama cow shove the baby away. By kicking the milker off early, the cows were avoiding this discomfort, even if it meant they didn't get milked out all the way (which can lead to mastitis). Being able to differentiate between two different sets of rules with two different people is a hard concept for human children. It's notable that these dairy cows had managed the concept just ducky.

Most dairymen don't bother to name cows, however, I did because I figured that hearing the same sound every time they got on the table would be soothing for the new cows. The cows learned their names, and a couple of the more social ones (Medic, Plague, Tabitha, and Cruella) would come when I called -- especially Medic, who had an obsession with shampoo.

Magpie (352) loved shiny objects. Whenever she would see Dan's truck or Dan (the mechanic) she would sneak up on him and take tools from his toolkit to go hoard on the opposite side of the barn/field from whatever Dan was working on. This is the same cow who would try to lick my ear only if I forgot to take my earrings out. Whenever not-Dans were in the field, she kept her distance along with everyone else.

Most of the time when I tell people these stories, unless one of my coworkers who saw it happen was there to vouch for me, the person I'm talking to doesn't beleive me because "everybody knows" cows are stupid. (Probably because most "cowboys" work with Angus Psycho Cows.)

Which underscores the biggest problem with animal intelligence. If the human "knows" that animals are unintelligent, they will probably see unintelligence in the results no matter what happens (Trudy, one of my bosses, saw all of the above things happen and still held that cows were stupid). The other problem is the definition of intelligence -- do we define intelligence as being like man, or being able to adapt to new situations, or being able to find solutions to problems?

If "intelligence" means "adaptablity," then raptors, ravens, and pigeons win hands-down. Raptors figure out that falconers mean free and consistent food in a surprisingly short time, and will stay with the falconer even when no longer jessed because they know meals are far more regular with people then without. Pigeons, of course, have the distinction of having taken over man's own cities right under his nose. Ravens are the ultimate con artists -- have you ever seen two distract the dog while three helps himself?

On the other hand, if "intelligence" is defined as possession of abstract concepts and principles, then man alone passes the test.

Which is what makes what the Wraith are so horrifying. They talk to humans, they can even debate principles with us, and yet they eat us anyway. We've never seen the Wraith trying to do for themselves what Beckett tried to do for Ellia, nor have we seen them come to the Atlantis team and try to find a way to modify the retrovirus to make it no longer erase memories but still leave them no longer needing to feed on human life. We haven't even seen them try to eat an animal!

Which is ironic, since the "Gift of Life" would make the Wraith a lovely half of a symbiotic relationship -- something like the humans raise the pigs for the Wraith and the Wraith give the humans immortality.

Maybe Todd's working on it. ~.^

ANYWAY. On to more important things: thunking.






And one of the *****y looks he kept shooting Ronon during "Reunion"

Spoiler:

[Rosehawk]

I've moved to another city, got a divorce, then got a new boyfriend!

My life's been busy lately

So been living a little RL huh!

Well this can help calm things down abit..

Spoiler:

[SoulReaver]

Even so, the mirror test measures self-awareness, not problem-solving skills: the ability to overcome obstacles to get what you want.

surely...and yet there is a correlation between said skills (or if you prefer : intelligence) and self-awareness that can't be put down to mere coincidence : apes & dolphins are amongst the very few who do pass the test & just happen to be considered the smartest in the animal kingdom (after humans of course)

Holsteins and Jersey cows, on the other hand, I would put over rats

as you wish - just never say that to a rat

I worked at a dairy for two years with Holsteins and Holstein/Jersey mixes and it was like babysitting three hundred eighteen month olds.
The best example was the locking mechanism of the gates. The dairy was built with cattle gates, which are closed with a chain that rests in a notch and is then pushed through a hole. For an Angus, this is enough. The Holsteins and Jerseys, on the other hand, very quickly learned that by licking the chain, curling their tongue under it, pulling back, and lifting that they could open the gate whenever they pleased. In reply, we attached clasps to the gate and clicked the chain through the clasp -- wihtout opposable thumbs, there was no getting the gate open.

The problem arose when someone forgot to clip the chain in the hook. I'm not sure if the cows were just listening for the clasp, or if they did patrols and checked every day, but within ten minutes at most there were cows out if someone forgot to close the gate.

well I'll give that one to the cows - rats wouldn't even be able to lift those heavy chains to begin with

but I bet rats on steroids would breeze through that test ^_^

The other thing the cows were good at was manipulation. I tolerated no misbehavior on my shift. The new cows who were still adapting to dairy life kicked off their milkers and otherwise held things up, but after that first few weeks most of them learned that getting what they wanted (to go back to the beds/feed) was entirely dependent upon me getting what I wanted (them keeping their milker on until they were done). Old cows did not misbehave on my shift -- nor on the shifts of the two other people who brooked no nonsense.

The people who were not consistent, on the other hand, and who would just let a cow off the table if she kicked her milker off three times or who concluded a cow was too stupid to learn and therefore never bothered to teach had problems from old cows AND new cows all shift long. The cows had these people completely convinced that kicking off their milkers and refusing to get on the table was completely normal cow behavior and should therefore be completely tolerated, even though one shift before they'd behaved fine!

well I guess you can teach an old cows new tricks eh ?

admittedly those bovines appear to be a lot smarter than I'd have ever given them credit for...

nice anecdotes btw - quaint ! dealing with clever animals can be an interesting experience but I can imagine how much trickier it gets if the animal also weigh over half a ton & can easily thrash a human about like a ragdoll...

The other problem is the definition of intelligence -- do we define intelligence as being like man, or being able to adapt to new situations, or being able to find solutions to problems?

good question - I guess it would be a bit of both, plus a host of other parameters. perhaps the ability to fathom more abstract & less "essential" ideas arises not through evolution but as a more direct consequence of civilization. for example philosophy, religion, etc. (afaik) only came to be once mankind had abandoned hunting & gathering and gone sedentary - this to say even a modern homo sapens sapiens, if born & forced to live in a harsher environment far from all civilization, would have far more pressing preoccupations than "being like a man" & delving into kantian metaphysics, and would readily embrace a carpe diem outlook on things. this is where "down-to-earth" intelligence - perhaps the only real intelligence ? - steps in

If "intelligence" means "adaptablity," then raptors, ravens, and pigeons win hands-down. Raptors figure out that falconers mean free and consistent food in a surprisingly short time, and will stay with the falconer even when no longer jessed because they know meals are far more regular with people then without. Pigeons, of course, have the distinction of having taken over man's own cities right under his nose.

but wouldn't this be more a question of either instinct (in the 1st case - the same way lions & tigers will make increasingly bolder forays into villages once they figure out that humans & livestock make easier prey) or some "collective intelligence" (in the 2nd case - for example we are losing the war"against cockroaches & mosquitos) ?

pigeons are damn smart all right but I'm not sure the fact they've invaded human cities is evidence of this - if anything it also shows how resilient they can be (same as rats & their uncanny ability to adapt to various environmental conditions & pesticides in almost borg fashion, as well as breed extremely fast just like pigeons)

Ravens are the ultimate con artists -- have you ever seen two distract the dog while three helps himself?

yup - magpies too

btw apes & even monkeys often pull off that trick - ie. baboons vs ostriches (to steal the eggs)

On the other hand, if "intelligence" is defined as possession of abstract concepts and principles, then man alone passes the test.

probably - depends where you set the bar though. if by 'abstract concept' you mean all those known to humans right up to & including metaphysics etc. then I suppose man alone scores - rather obviously since humans are more human than other animals :|

if we only consider basic abstract concepts such as for example self-awareness, or the notion of quantity (self-awareness would be one of them...?) then apes, dolphins, rats & even parrots could be added to the list

Which is what makes what the Wraith are so horrifying. They talk to humans, they can even debate principles with us, and yet they eat us anyway. We've never seen the Wraith trying to do for themselves what Beckett tried to do for Ellia, nor have we seen them come to the Atlantis team and try to find a way to modify the retrovirus to make it no longer erase memories but still leave them no longer needing to feed on human life. We haven't even seen them try to eat an animal!

alas intelligence is one thing, morality is another. the latter is also a heck of a lot more subjective than the former (itself far from being objective)
hell, Lucifer is smart too (devilishly smart -)

maybe the wraith just find humans tastier. humans have picky palates (most of us anyway) so why not the wraith ? ^^

btw that retrovirus also turns them into puny humans - a dire perspective for a being that can toss a human across a room & regenerate from blade & bullet-wounds.

ANYWAY. On to more important things: thunking.

Spoiler:

And one of the *****y looks he kept shooting Ronon during "Reunion"

tss...stick to topic plz, TY

uh wait...
never mind :/

[SoulReaver]

Oh great, just what we need, more hairy rats roaming the earth!

still beats hairless rats :/

man, I can't stop laughing on this one, oh man, my sides are splitting, they are hurting, oh god, help me! Radek, help, help

unfortunately he can't :

his attention is elsewhere

I'm laughing so hard....oops I just fell to the floor and bumped my knee...at least Radek is here to offer some TLC.

Thin Layer Chromatography ? I don't get the picture

Guiltless, yeah right, that was a good one SoulRe@ver!

my conscience is clear !

...

ok ok fine maybe I did play a minor part in this (confiteor Deo omnipotenti et vobis, fratres, quia peccavi in cogitatione et locutione & all the rest of it)

there - but I still maintain I'm not the real culprit, so accept this mini-confession for that's all you'll get from me

I do believe you are right, a mod could tell us who did the tag, but then it wouldn't be fun anymore!

yeah but it never was for me anyway

You obviously don't know me that well!

I would if you didn't so callously reject my advances

Hey, I don't hide the fact that I am also a Chuck fan!

chuckles
wait till I tell Zee you've been cheating on him in his own bed thread

OMG, we agree on something!

Radek is so happy with us that he has tears of joy coming down his face!

yeah we agree at last - raspberries are *yum yum*

Spoiler:

but Zee's still a lab rat