John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[bluealien]

Hi guys, I just wanted to pop in here and say a few thoughts, this might be long winded though just ot warn you!

This is how I feel over the hole Teyla/Canoe thing

• Since day one John has been with Teyla, we saw that since Rising. We saw first and foremost how John actetd around Teyla, he acted, well, as he should have, he acted naturally. Everything just clicked as he spoke to Teyla that first time. We could tell by their actions they had either started a bond, or more.
• Jump to 38 minutes. John's injured, and Teyla is caring for him, sxhe acts more like a friend would when in fear of loosing a loved one
• Jump ahead to Siege episode (all three parts) and see how John treated Teyla when everyone else treated her with doubt. John trusted Teyla with his life, and he did the right thing. (though seeing Teyla deck bates was worth it!)
• Jump forwards to episode when they meet Ronon. Teyla and John act more like husband and wife here just my Johns wording and her actions alone! "What are you doing?" "Getting my hands free" "Didn't feel like it" Does he know something we don't?
• Jump backwards a moment to episode Home, Who do we see together but John & Teyla, no mentions of Canoeing or the like either! Hello peoples what trend are we seeing here?
• In several fanfics (some of them my own) John and Teyla have more "screen time" then anyone else in those fanfics, at least from what I can see
• Another thought, John does indeed have feelings for Teyla, and that he hated Canoe so much, he saw how Ronon and Teyla acted around each other, like brother and sister. Ronon even talked to John about Teyla in one scene (Sunday I think it was) You could tell who John was thinknig about there

I'll shut up

Excellent points Awinita

[Artie]

Oh I know Artie... he definitley was the invisible guy...it was the most unbelievable relationship the ptb ever attempted... why not just admit that it didnt work out.. it happens where friends think that maybe a relationship could work and become intimate but then realise that they were wrong.. but instead they tried to give us the fairy tale story but with a couple who never interacted...

That's my take on it too. They were friends and it seemed like a good idea at the top of season four when Teyla was so unhappy. And it was a mistake. People make mistakes. They think relationships will work, and then they don't. Teyla wouldn't be the first woman to sleep with a good friend and then realize that friendship isn't enough.

Oh yes Teyla was talking about John...Martin Gero confirmed that in an interview and Teyla had made it clear that she was talking about someone not from her people... so the whole thing was one contradiction after the other.... and now JM has said they they had an offscreen relationship and in amid all the chaos found the time to get married.. though he did refer to Kanaan as Teyla's husband before and then had to retract it and said he made a mistake... but the guy loves to yank fans chains.. ...

Well, he's the guy who said that Sam was absolutely going to marry Pete over on SG-1! Like that happened!

Oh me too.. its dark age nonsense... of course you can keep a relationship interesting with good writers... look at John and Aeryn.. one of the best couples in sci fi and their relationship added to the story not took away from it...

That's what I think. I think getting them together is just the beginning. Especially for a couple that has as much baggage as John and Teyla. In season six one could get them together in the first third and have plenty to do to carry the drama through to the end.

[bluealien]

That's my take on it too. They were friends and it seemed like a good idea at the top of season four when Teyla was so unhappy. And it was a mistake. People make mistakes. They think relationships will work, and then they don't. Teyla wouldn't be the first woman to sleep with a good friend and then realize that friendship isn't enough.

Oh yes such a simple solution but Teyla was obviously not allowed any mistakes... only the guys are allowed to have flings..

Well, he's the guy who said that Sam was absolutely going to marry Pete over on SG-1! Like that happened!

LOL... Well Kanan/Teyla didnt get married on screen so that didnt happen either...

That's what I think. I think getting them together is just the beginning. Especially for a couple that has as much baggage as John and Teyla. In season six one could get them together in the first third and have plenty to do to carry the drama through to the end.

The potential is endless.... we could have learnt so much more about both characters.. thats the sad thing..it was a wasted opportunity... a relationship between JT would have developed the characters more... and yet they squandered it... its not always easy to get 2 actors with such great chemistry as Joe and Rachel...

[Jeyla4ever]

[QUOTE]

I think they just chickened out Jeyla... they were definitley heading in the direction of making JT canon but I guess not ready to have John a daddy... they don't know how to write John as anything but the gun toting hero.. I don't think they wanted their hero as the family man just yet.... it would have involved some creative writing as well and some decent emotional screentime for John.. maybe they felt they werent up to the task..

Exactly Blue. And yet for SGU they are doing the complete opposite and ruin it all together!

Yummy... they really look good together...

Always!

I'm not too keen on the whole tweet thing.. I think ship questions would just attract the crazies and there have been too many of them around lately..

It's like texting only more so for keeping up with news and movie stars and what not. I don't have mine on public. Who the heck cares about my life. But I went to follow Rachel who hardly ever post but is doing much more frequently as of late.

No, no. I didn't share this with you guys to ask about JT. I agree, he's moved on from that. Although if I were to go to a con, I'd definitely still ask him some JT questions.

[bluealien]

[QUOTE=Jeyla4ever;11797975]

Exactly Blue. And yet for SGU they are doing the complete opposite and ruin it all together!

Talking about one extreme to the other...

Always!

Indeed ...

It's like texting only more so for keeping up with news and movie stars and what not. I don't have mine on public. Who the heck cares about my life. But I went to follow Rachel who hardly ever post but is doing much more frequently as of late.

No, no. I didn't share this with you guys to ask about JT. I agree, he's moved on from that. Although if I were to go to a con, I'd definitely still ask him some JT questions.

Oh sorry... well I was very happy with what he said about JT so I don't bring it up with him now.. as you say he's definitely moved on...

I hope you get to see him at a con.. and would look forward to what he said..

[Jeyla4ever]

I think you're hitting the nail on the head, Camy. This is about the writers following the conventional wisdom that the male lead has to be single and available. The male lead can never be happily married. If you see a show where he has a wife or girlfriend you know she's going to get killed!

And there's the conventional wisdom that an established relationship is a snoozer. We saw that with Jack and Sam on SG-1. Somehow you have to keep the characters apart long after any reasonable amount of stuff in order to keep tension.

I absolutely disagree with that bit of writing conventional wisdom. I think an established relationship can be both tense and hot. Remember shows like Hart to Hart? Or those great Golden Age detective couples like Tuppence and Tommy? I don't think you have to keep them single to keep it interesting.

oh my word!!! You have me rolling with the heart to heart!! ROF...I used to watch re-runs of that when I was wee girl!!! LOL I don't know the other one though. ROFLMAO

The whole thing is stupid. I think they regret it now. Even Joe has stated that he wished he had a lead female love interest that was and they were keeping the relationship hidden..>Uh, DUH!! that's Teyla right there!!! Weren't we stating that all along???? That's how it should have been. By season 3 or sooner they should have had John and Teyla be seeing one another secretly. That would have been so much fun!!! LOL

[Jeyla4ever]

Oh yes Teyla was talking about John...Martin Gero confirmed that in an interview and Teyla had made it clear that she was talking about someone not from her people... so the whole thing was one contradiction after the other.... and now JM has said they they had an offscreen relationship and in amid all the chaos found the time to get married.. though he did refer to Kanaan as Teyla's husband before and then had to retract it and said he made a mistake... but the guy loves to yank fans chains..

He actually wrote that???? Thank goodness I don't go to his blog anymore. Only the other day I commented something and now I can't even remember.

He contradicts himself constantly. He's said clearly that he can only see John with either Nancy or Teyla. And he's also said that there are still feelings between both John and Teyla for one another despite the fact that now he's claiming that Teyla is married with Kanaan. So, there you go, Teyla is married with Kanaan but secretly harboring feelings for John. We know how long that marriage is going to last. *shakes head* Unbelievable.

[Artie]

Oh yes such a simple solution but Teyla was obviously not allowed any mistakes... only the guys are allowed to have flings.....

Yep. It's the old double standard that women are either virgins or whores. Teyla must be in her mid thirties. Are we really supposed to believe she's never had a relationship before? It seems really unlikely to me that she hasn't been married before or at least in a serious relationship. And all the stuff there is to do with that! Did he die tragically? Did they split painfully? That's got to play into her hesitation with John. If he died, then can she emotionally risk that again? If they split, does she have a Nancy story of her own that hurts just as much?

LOL... Well Kanan/Teyla didnt get married on screen so that didnt happen either...

I think it's really interesting that neither Teyla nor anybody else refers to Kanaan as her husband. Which says to me that he isn't. For that matter, we don't know what the Athosians think about marriage in the first place. We never see any Athosian refer to anybody as a husband or a wife. We have no idea what the rules are. They could be anything.

I also really love the scene where John tells Sam that Teyla's pregnant, not just because it's a good John and Sam scene, but because Sam is so clearly taken aback that John doesn't say he's the father!

[Jeyla4ever]

Hi guys, I just wanted to pop in here and say a few thoughts, this might be long winded though just ot warn you!

This is how I feel over the hole Teyla/Canoe thing

• Since day one John has been with Teyla, we saw that since Rising. We saw first and foremost how John actetd around Teyla, he acted, well, as he should have, he acted naturally. Everything just clicked as he spoke to Teyla that first time. We could tell by their actions they had either started a bond, or more.
• Jump to 38 minutes. John's injured, and Teyla is caring for him, sxhe acts more like a friend would when in fear of loosing a loved one
• Jump ahead to Siege episode (all three parts) and see how John treated Teyla when everyone else treated her with doubt. John trusted Teyla with his life, and he did the right thing. (though seeing Teyla deck bates was worth it!)
• Jump forwards to episode when they meet Ronon. Teyla and John act more like husband and wife here just my Johns wording and her actions alone! "What are you doing?" "Getting my hands free" "Didn't feel like it" Does he know something we don't?
• Jump backwards a moment to episode Home, Who do we see together but John & Teyla, no mentions of Canoeing or the like either! Hello peoples what trend are we seeing here?
• In several fanfics (some of them my own) John and Teyla have more "screen time" then anyone else in those fanfics, at least from what I can see
• Another thought, John does indeed have feelings for Teyla, and that he hated Canoe so much, he saw how Ronon and Teyla acted around each other, like brother and sister. Ronon even talked to John about Teyla in one scene (Sunday I think it was) You could tell who John was thinknig about there

I'll shut up

And those are just a fraction of the many other moments when they are together and not together that you can tell that there's a mutual bond there that goes beyond anything that either Rodney and Keller nor any other pairing in Atlantis have ever shared.

Thanks Awinita. Well said.

[Artie]

That's how it should have been. By season 3 or sooner they should have had John and Teyla be seeing one another secretly. That would have been so much fun!!! LOL

I think so! That's how I wrote it in my long fic Convergence series anyway!

But I think even if they got together later, in a season six kind of way, they'd keep it to themselves for a while because they're both cautious people. I don't think anybody would know except the team and maybe Radek and Sam.

[Atlantis4Life]

I think you're hitting the nail on the head, Camy. This is about the writers following the conventional wisdom that the male lead has to be single and available. The male lead can never be happily married. If you see a show where he has a wife or girlfriend you know she's going to get killed!

And there's the conventional wisdom that an established relationship is a snoozer. We saw that with Jack and Sam on SG-1. Somehow you have to keep the characters apart long after any reasonable amount of stuff in order to keep tension.

I absolutely disagree with that bit of writing conventional wisdom. I think an established relationship can be both tense and hot. Remember shows like Hart to Hart? Or those great Golden Age detective couples like Tuppence and Tommy? I don't think you have to keep them single to keep it interesting.

And the sad thing about this is that Babylon 5 showed that having the lead male commander character in a marriage can and does work. It's all about the writing. I don't mean to sound like a broken record here, but again, great writing can achieve anything. And, the fact of the matter is that JT was set up to happen so well over the course of 3 years that even "just okay" writing would have done a sufficient job in putting them together in season 4. It really was a missed opportunity.

There was one S5 JT gem aside from the opening scene in S&R, and it's in The Queen (by Allan McCullough). This is what JT would have looked like if they were to happen (imo). It definitely wouldn't have been a "soap opera" like some people have suggested. Both John and Teyla are in his room, and he's sitting on the bed, and they are talking about whether or not she should go through with assisting Todd by temporarily becoming a Wraith.

Here's the Vids - (This was good writing, if I do say so myself ):

And then here's the closing scene where he comes and checks up on her.

This is what JT would have looked like if they were together in my opinion, they just would have been a bit more affectionate with no one looking if the moment called for it.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers.

[Jeyla4ever]

That's my take on it too. They were friends and it seemed like a good idea at the top of season four when Teyla was so unhappy. And it was a mistake. People make mistakes. They think relationships will work, and then they don't. Teyla wouldn't be the first woman to sleep with a good friend and then realize that friendship isn't enough.

Great, great points, Artie.
I dreaded this plot, and I knew they were going to go in this direction. And that's why I really hate the "it just happened" comment that Teyla said. The writers clearly wrote it to mean that although Teyla admitted to Keller that she was seeing Kanaan and the potential within him, she hid it from John and the others. Something was holding her back. And they wrote it this way.

Teyla owed no explanation to John or anyone else for that matter. And yet, she felt as though she did to some level. What John said to her hit her in the core and made her feel really ashamed. I hate that scene too!!!

I don't like to think of it as a mistake and I think in the end, she convinced herself that it wasn't a mistake. I think Teyla sees it more as her destiny, and hence she accepted her role and her responsibilities.

And although I hate what the writers did to explain why she slept with Kanaan and the it just happened comment, I am grateful that they decided to go with the whole let's make this work plot from Teyla.

It takes a big woman and a big man to take responsibilities for their actions. I was brought up with that belief. If you want to play, then you better know the risks, take responsibility and pay the consequences.

I see Teyla as that kind of a person from what we saw in her in the show. She's the type that after seeing so many deaths and so much grief that if now she was having a baby, she'd want to do everything in her power to have her child be with the father. What she lost, she would fight for her child to have. And so I think that went on with her constant wording of Kanaan, not as her lover, but as the father of her son. So, whether the writers did this on purpose or not, I'm still grateful for it, because otherwise, I think it would have shown another side of Teyla that hadn't beens shown from her before. Again, it's not about making Teyla the MarySue or the perfect one...No! That's not it for me. But for Teyla and her people, family meant everything to her. Teyla's people are one in the same. They watch out for one another. They decide things together, collectively. So, there's certainly acceptance and individuality, but also there's a fine line of pride and culture that does present this type of scenario.

She wanted to make things work. I can totally understand that. Even though her heart belongs to another. I can respect that as well.

What I hoped the writers would have eventually done, is that Kanaan simply couldn't accept the life that she accepted. And that built a bridge between them or a wall. I really didn't want the kill Kanaan scenario because I don't want to see John as second place. We all know whom Teyla wants, and that's John.

But going back to your point...mistakes....yes! But when is it a mistake to find comfort in the arms of another? I think it was a spur of the moment, and the consequences came in the form of an unexpected child. Again, I think that plotline wasn't the problem, it was the way it ultimately unravelled with too many gaps in between.

My thoughts of course!

Well, he's the guy who said that Sam was absolutely going to marry Pete over on SG-1! Like that happened!

I gave up on Jack and Sam after season 3. I loved those two, but they never came close to me as the chemistry that was seen between John and Teyla. John is more expressive, more sensitive, more led by emotions and passion. I love that about the guy. It could be seen as his weakness, but that to me, only makes him stronger. And Teyla...the whole idea that she's from another galaxy, a woman with such soul and yet so cultured....that defines beauty, strength and a powerful ally. They just matched perfectly because I think they compliment one another perfectly.

That's what I think. I think getting them together is just the beginning. Especially for a couple that has as much baggage as John and Teyla. In season six one could get them together in the first third and have plenty to do to carry the drama through to the end.

Some of the best shows out there are the ones that deal with the complexities of life but at the same time, show the realities of how we cope with that which surrounds us. As human beings, we need to feel loved and love. It's what drives our emotions, actions and our choices. It's what defines us and separates us from other living things. And John and Teyla, living in such dire complicated lives, they needed comfort at the end of the day...and that would have truly been wonderful to see.

[Jeyla4ever]

I think so! That's how I wrote it in my long fic Convergence series anyway!

But I think even if they got together later, in a season six kind of way, they'd keep it to themselves for a while because they're both cautious people. I don't think anybody would know except the team and maybe Radek and Sam.

Do I know you? Yup....I think for a bit they would have kept it secret. But in the end, John's super and over possessive and protective side would have given it away. Not to mention that we've all seen that glow on his face everytime he got lucky!!! Imagine that look with TEYLA!!! LOL

[Artie]

There was one S5 JT gem aside from the opening scene in S&R, and it's in The Queen (by Allan McCullough). This is what JT would have looked like if they were to happen (imo). It definitely wouldn't have been a "soap opera" like some people have suggested. Both John and Teyla are in his room, and he's sitting on the bed, and they are talking about whether or not she should go through with assisting Todd by temporarily becoming a Wraith.

Here's the Vids - (This was good writing, if I do say so myself ):

And then here's the closing scene where he comes and checks up on her.

This is what JT would have looked like if they were together in my opinion, they just would have been a bit more affectionate with no one looking if the moment called for it.

I love those two scenes too! Yes, that's what it would look like, only a little more privately affectionate. Not much, just a tweak. That's one of my favorite episodes.

The other thing I love is at the very end of the second scene, the way she flexes her feeding hand and looks after him just as Todd did looking after her. Complicated. So complicated, the emotions that come with her gift. John has exactly the right temperament for a Wraith commander, and he sure looks nice down on his knees....

If I were writing it that's the way I'd go!

[Jeyla4ever]

And the sad thing about this is that Babylon 5 showed that having the lead male commander character in a marriage can and does work. It's all about the writing. I don't mean to sound like a broken record here, but again, great writing can achieve anything. And, the fact of the matter is that JT was set up to happen so well over the course of 3 years that even "just okay" writing would have done a sufficient job in putting them together in season 4. It really was a missed opportunity.

There was one S5 JT gem aside from the opening scene in S&R, and it's in The Queen (by Allan McCullough). This is what JT would have looked like if they were to happen (imo). It definitely wouldn't have been a "soap opera" like some people have suggested. Both John and Teyla are in his room, and he's sitting on the bed, and they are talking about whether or not she should go through with assisting Todd by temporarily becoming a Wraith.

Here's the Vids - (This was good writing, if I do say so myself ):

And then here's the closing scene where he comes and checks up on her.

This is what JT would have looked like if they were together in my opinion, they just would have been a bit more affectionate with no one looking if the moment called for it.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers.

Now you got me all emotional. Excellent illustration. It was there all along and even after the whole Kanaan. It never dimmed.