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    Originally posted by bluealien View Post
    [/SPOILERS]

    Thanks for this Jeyla... I love how Rachel has used her own background and I think even her feelings for her own son to enrich Teyla's character. This is how she wanted Teyla to be portrayed with deep ties to her people and even Kanaan, but sadly the writers failed dismally on every count. They hardly touched on Teyla's connection to her people and only dragged Kanaan up to explain Rachels pregnancy. If Teyla was so close to her people why did she chose to live on Atlantis... why did she abandon her people and go to earth knowing she may never see them again... why did JM suddenly say that Kanaan and Torren were on Earth when again it contradicts Rachels take on what Teyla would have done...
    After talking to Rachel in Chicago last year she had no idea how badly the whole Teyla/Kanaan thing came across. She said she didnt watch the episodes as she didnt get time and I think her version is how she hoped it would come across and how she felt that Teyla would behave but sadly the writers weren't on the same page.

    If Kanaan had been introduced slowly into the show and we saw them actually interact and if the actors had some chemistry then maybe Kanaan may have worked.. but sadly none of the above happened and the writers didn't even bother to show Teylas connection to her people or any resolution to her and Johns feelings. I think if the SGA actors actually got the time to sit down and watch the show they would be just as horrified as we are as to how it turned out..
    Good points, Blue.

    We all know that from day one, the show has left much to the viewers point of view. I think the writers intentionally did this as well. I think even more so it's interesting that Rachel states that she and Joe never talked about how they were going to work with John and Teyla's feelings and yet they both admit that there was something much more there, and they played it that way and we saw it. So, all those looks, all those concerns, all those unspoken words, even among the actors, it was there!

    Both have stated that there could have been more had there been a Season 6. The fact that Rachel even admits that there might be more and that she was willing to go further with her relationship with Teyla and John, that alone tells us that Rachel knows there was no chemistry between Kanaan and Teyla beyond a respect and a love there.

    I agree with you that the writers didn't play them as we should have seen it played out, but at the same time...if it was played out as this perfect relationship, then Teyla has no reason to still harbor feelings for John. I agree with you and I completely understand your frustration and disapointment cause I feel it very strongly still after these years without the show.

    Yet, everything that Rachel stated about Kanaan makes sense to me and it's believable from what I gather on what Teyla played in the show. For me, at least. That I wanted to see more. Heck yes! That the writers completely dismissed Teyla's Athosian side...Yup. So, we have to put the pieces together, just like we've done it for John and Teyla in this thread and in the hundreds of amazing fics written out there.

    Teyla loves her people. Trusts her people and would do anything for them. She decided early on that she wanted to fight for them. I just watched The Return the other day, and I completely missed the fact that when Radim came to her and Ronon in the Athosian camp after John and his team had left, Ronon was reluctant to join sides with the Genii, but Teyla was actually considering it. She stated that the Ancients had not recognized nor asked for their help and that her people were mere farmers. So, even without John and his team, Teyla was willing to go back and fight and join the Genii in the fight against the Wraith.

    So, in John asking Teyla to join his team, Teyla discovered what she was truly meant to do. To fight. She is a natural born warrior.

    And I could go on...but my point. Yes, the writers missed out on a lot in particular with Teyla's character. Actually, we can say the same thing for all of these characters. Ironically, in SGU they are doing too much of the characters background and missing out on the whole scifi feel. There has to be a balance for a show like Stargate to be loved by us scifi fans. We need that piece of scifi feel to a show but we need to relate with the characters as well. The cast of Atlantis had very little in script with that aspect of their characters but they certainly gave us a lot with their facial expressions that they don't say with words.

    I see Teyla very much as Rachel sees her. I think there's a connection there that's strong between Kanaan and Teyla, and it is a type of love. And one that she will "make" herself be happy and content with, but only as long as she has John right there by her side. Which is why I think she left her people behind. Which is why Teyla believes that her people would take care of her son in her absence and he will be fine. Remember that Teyla herself grew up without her parents. This is something common for her people. For us to see a mother leave her child...that's sacriligious, but this is Teyla. She's not from our world. Her experiences are not that of our own here on Earth. She made the decision to continue fighting for her son, for her people. She decided to stay with John and his team. She feels that in the long run that will be best for her people and her son's future. A future without the fear of Wraith. I can totally understand that.

    And Kanaan....makes sense. He's the one that was made for her. He's the one that her people decided for her even if they never actually told her. John never made a move and she wasn't going to. So, she decided. She did it for her people, for her ties. I get that. And although we never saw it like that on-screen, there was certainly enough there in how Rachel played it out, too.

    In fact, I'm glad they did it this way because think about it, if they had shown us Teyla falling in love with Kanaan, the way they should have done it, then there can't be no feelings for John. I still believe that Torren was in fact an accident. And I'm extremely intrigued with Rachel's take on Torren's father. But in the end, for me to believe that Teyla still harbors strong feelings for John and those are the feeling of a deep love and connection that she can never share with Kanaan, then this scenario fits for her to eventually leave Kanaan and be with John.

    That's just my point of view, of course.

    But that the writers did an injustice to Teyla's character and her background. No doubt about it. There should have been more. I too wished that they had given us more of her culture and her people and giving us more about just how Torren is more powerful than even her!!!



    But mostly, that eventually, what she feels for Kanaan will clearly show in him that she's not in love with him, that she feels for another and that her ties with John are so strong that she would rather die with him and for his cause knowing that her son would be completely fine without her and with her people to continue on her family's legacy.
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      Yup, I'm reminding you guys again to come sign up for Beya's 2nd Annual Elf Exchange. There are 13 days left till the sign-ups will close. So, get to it!

      We had a blast last year and some amazing presents. Join us this year and you'll love it as well.

      Have a great weekend!

      Details and sign up link below.

      http://community.livejournal.com/sga_beya/266010.html
      Last edited by Jeyla4ever; 27 October 2010, 12:15 PM.
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        Well said Jeyla.
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          Thanks Padme. I think others here like Blue, Scifan, Nina, Everlovin, and all the others express themselves better than I do.

          You know, till this day, I still can't watch the episodes. I was bored out of my mind the other day and I watched The Return Part 1 but only because I had bought it on Itunes. My DVD box sets are still sealed!

          It's hard because we all know that the writers really threw a curve ball to John and Teyla with her pregnancy. They didn't give it too much thought. We know for a fact that John was in there as a potential father and many of the writers agreed, but for whatever reason they went another way.

          There are too many gaps in the storylines especially in Season 5. Truthfully, I think they just didn't care knowing the show was over.

          Sad, because there was so much more. So much unsaid, and so much unanswered questions. I give all the props to the actors. Their amazing performance is what allows us to fill in the gaps based on our own views and our own point of view. Teyla is particularly challenging because she's not meant to be as an earthling. And yet it's interesting that Rachel brought a lot of her Tanzanian influence and heritage into Teyla's role. I love that! She's truly a well formed character form Rachel's point and yet, there should have been so much more.

          I agree with all of Blue's point. I still get all choked up when I see an episode and see how we were left wondering and with an unfinished story.
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            Originally posted by Jeyla4ever View Post

            I agree with you that the writers didn't play them as we should have seen it played out, but at the same time...if it was played out as this perfect relationship, then Teyla has no reason to still harbor feelings for John. I agree with you and I completely understand your frustration and disapointment cause I feel it very strongly still after these years without the show.
            I think Rachels version of how she would have liked things to have played out was very different to the writers. They didn't explain anything because to put it plainly they really couldn't be bothered. I don't think they gave any thought to Teyla's connection to her people or even bothered to mention that Teyla already had feelings for John... this is where my frustration comes in.. at the end of the day Rachels feelings on how Teyla should have been played out with John or with Kanaan are immaterial, because the writers obviously didn't listen to her.. just like they never listened to Joe with all the suggestions as to how he wanted his character played..


            Yet, everything that Rachel stated about Kanaan makes sense to me and it's believable from what I gather on what Teyla played in the show. For me, at least. That I wanted to see more. Heck yes! That the writers completely dismissed Teyla's Athosian side...Yup. So, we have to put the pieces together, just like we've done it for John and Teyla in this thread and in the hundreds of amazing fics written out there.
            I admit it's very believable but it didn't happen. That's not how the writers wrote Teyla... they didn't give any explanation for Kanaan.. they never once mentioned before that Teyla wouldn't consider any other relationship besides one with her own people.. why did they have her admit she liked someone NOT from her people if Teyla was so committed to staying with tradition and culture etc.. again I think this is how Rachel saw Teyla because of her own background and culture on her mom's side... but this isn't how the writers portrayed Teyla..

            Teyla loves her people. Trusts her people and would do anything for them. She decided early on that she wanted to fight for them. I just watched The Return the other day, and I completely missed the fact that when Radim came to her and Ronon in the Athosian camp after John and his team had left, Ronon was reluctant to join sides with the Genii, but Teyla was actually considering it. She stated that the Ancients had not recognized nor asked for their help and that her people were mere farmers. So, even without John and his team, Teyla was willing to go back and fight and join the Genii in the fight against the Wraith.
            Teyla always wanted to help her people, there is no question about that, but that doesn't mean that she couldn't settle somewhere else and she was prepared to do that. She was prepared to leave them in order to protect them, in fact I always felt that John and Teyla didn't get together because BOTH of them were more interested in keeping their perspective people safe... they put their own feelings aside for the sake of helping others.. but then suddenly Teyla is willing to put all that aside and risk pregnancy.. Rachels version of Teyla wouldn't be so careless, but unfortunately the writers didn't see Teyla the way Rachel did..


            So, in John asking Teyla to join his team, Teyla discovered what she was truly meant to do. To fight. She is a natural born warrior.
            I agree and I felt that they were both meant to fight and if Teyla wasnt prepared to give that up for John why did she do so for Kanaan.. I always felt that was why neither of them admitted their feelings for each other.... they were meant to be fighting to keep those they loved safe..

            I see Teyla very much as Rachel sees her
            I know you do and I'd love to have seen it played out the way Rachel saw her too, but unfortunatley that's not what the writers gave us..

            I think there's a connection there that's strong between Kanaan and Teyla, and it is a type of love.
            Again we were never shown this connection.. Teyla only ever referred to Kanaan as the father of her child.... she never once said that she loved him.. or expressed any feelings for him... the writers didnt give us anything, so we have to fill in the blanks but there are too many for me.. Teylas connection to John was obvious to me and that I saw clearly and I just couldn't see Teyla falling for 2 men at the same time.. or settling for someone she didn't love. Teyla had too much passion imo for that..

            I also couldn't see this connection to her people... yes she cared for them but she had already made the break from them.. she was no longer their leader and she had lived on Atlantis for five years... Kanaan would never have been dragged into the picture if Rachel hadn't fallen pregnant and Teyla was already discussing the fact that she had feelings for someone not from her culture.. so what changed.... suddenly her culture is so important that she couldn't settle with anyone outside her own culture and traditions... why did this only happen after Rachel fell pregnant..

            And one that she will "make" herself be happy and content with, but only as long as she has John right there by her side
            I cant see Teyla expecting or believing that John would stick around when she had chosen someone else..so she had to know that she would lose him for good..

            Which is why I think she left her people behind. Which is why Teyla believes that her people would take care of her son in her absence and he will be fine.
            Which is exactly why I don't see Teyla having a problem with settling with someone from outside her culture... so again why chose Kanaan if she doesnt really love him..

            And Kanaan....makes sense. He's the one that was made for her. He's the one that her people decided for her even if they never actually told her. John never made a move and she wasn't going to. So, she decided. She did it for her people, for her ties. I get that. And although we never saw it like that on-screen, there was certainly enough there in how Rachel played it out, too.
            Kanaan wasn't chosen for her.. Teyla made that decision herself and as I mentioned before Teyla seemed quite happy to consider someone not from her culture before so what happened .. or is she staying with Kanaan purely for her son which I cant see her doing..

            In fact, I'm glad they did it this way because think about it, if they had shown us Teyla falling in love with Kanaan, the way they should have done it, then there can't be no feelings for John
            But the writers never mentioned that Teyla had any problem being with someone ouside her culture so again back to the same point that keeps coming up.. what changed..

            I still believe that Torren was in fact an accident. And I'm extremely intrigued with Rachel's take on Torren's father. But in the end, for me to believe that Teyla still harbors strong feelings for John and those are the feeling of a deep love and connection that she can never share with Kanaan, then this scenario fits for her to eventually leave Kanaan and be with John.
            I don't think Teyla's feelings for John ever changed and the writers never convinced me at all that she had any feelings other than friendship for Kanaan..Maybe if the writers had listened to Rachels version of how she saw Teyla and how she wanted things to play out then we may have gotten a more believable scenario.. but even Rachels version contradicted what came before for Teyla... we know that Teyla did have feelings for John and that she was hoping he would make a move.. so she didn't have a problem having a relationship with someone outside her culture and I always got the impression that Atlantis was now where Teyla belonged... being with John didn't have to kill her connection to her people or her culture. I have lived outside my birth country for more than half my life and I havn't lost the connection to my culture.. I don't have to marry someone from my culture to keep my traditions.. that is not enough to keep a relationship together..

            That's just my point of view, of course.
            and I really respect your point of view..

            But that the writers did an injustice to Teyla's character and her background. No doubt about it. There should have been more. I too wished that they had given us more of her culture and her people and giving us more about just how Torren is more powerful than even her!!!
            I agree..
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              RL qa makes Elfie giddie for once in very long, long, time about SGA! Had to pop in and check out all the answered questions... Y'all!
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                Do ya think I ought change my green beer siggie?.... Discuss! LOL!
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                  Originally posted by Elflinn View Post
                  Do ya think I ought change my green beer siggie?.... Discuss! LOL!
                  Hello stranger!

                  Hmmm... yep I'd say it's about time you changed that sig..
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                    Death Game! In my mailbox! It's here!
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                      Originally posted by artie View Post
                      death game! In my mailbox! It's here!
                      woohoo!
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                        I INTTERRUPTE THIS THREAD FOR A VERY IMPORTANT PLEA FOR HELP!!

                        OK peoplese, I'm in need of help, lots of it, national novel writing month is almost here and I plan on taking part again this year./ But I NEED NAMES. Right now I am in need of four names, two American Names, and two Austrialian Names. (basically two male, two female, one from each of the two countries)

                        I need these names BEFORE 1 November!!

                        Thanks guys!

                        I NOW RETURN YOU TO YOUR THREAD IN PROGRESS

                        This is the Assassin's Way part 17 complete
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                        "The one thing every new hairstylist must learn is how to do hair in a combat zone!" Bob; owner of Bob & Weave's Combat Salon in Red Dust Club, an original story currently in progress

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                          Death Game is OUT! And according to Jo Graham some have gotten their copies already.

                          Seems like Fandemonium is the quickest right now to get the book out!
                          http://www.stargatenovels.com/sga-14_Death_Game.shtml

                          As you know, I'm holding a Q&A with Jo Graham to John and Teyla shippers, since this will be a heavily JT book and it will follow with Jo's Post SGA novels Legacy (the first book due out this year as well).

                          I'd like to know who got the book already, who's still waiting, and who's planning on getting it sometime soon so that I can schedule with Jo when to do the Q&A in Beya.

                          Also, I'd like to know how you guys would like to do this ie by chapter, by several chapters combined, or a one entry discussion after everyone has read the entire book. For suggestions, feedback, questions, go here:
                          http://community.livejournal.com/sga_beya/273129.html

                          Lastly, don't forget that you have till November 4th to sign up for the Beya Elf Exchange. Here's the link:
                          http://community.livejournal.com/sga_beya/266010.html
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                            Originally posted by Jeyla4ever View Post
                            http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g95/camy91/250px-Death_Game.jpg
                            Death Game is OUT! And according to Jo Graham some have gotten their copies already.

                            Seems like Fandemonium is the quickest right now to get the book out!
                            http://www.stargatenovels.com/sga-14_Death_Game.shtml

                            As you know, I'm holding a Q&A with Jo Graham to John and Teyla shippers, since this will be a heavily JT book and it will follow with Jo's Post SGA novels Legacy (the first book due out this year as well).

                            I'd like to know who got the book already, who's still waiting, and who's planning on getting it sometime soon so that I can schedule with Jo when to do the Q&A in Beya.

                            Also, I'd like to know how you guys would like to do this ie by chapter, by several chapters combined, or a one entry discussion after everyone has read the entire book. For suggestions, feedback, questions, go here:
                            http://community.livejournal.com/sga_beya/273129.html

                            Lastly, don't forget that you have till November 4th to sign up for the Beya Elf Exchange. Here's the link:
                            http://community.livejournal.com/sga_beya/266010.html
                            I've just checked with Amazon again .. no word on it. Hopefully it won't be too much longer..

                            I'm hoping most will have it by next week and then the discussions can start. It would be nice to have it as as on going discussion though have the Q&A on the entire book..
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                              Originally posted by bluealien View Post
                              I agree..
                              I wish I had time to reply to your comments Blue, but I have a very busy schedule the next couple of days. I did read all your comments though and I agree with you more than I sound.

                              I guess the difference and what I am able to accept and it lets me sleep at night, is that I did fill in the gaps where the writers didn't. I also fell deeply for Teyla's character that I could see and understand and relate to much of what the writers did unsaid and unseen. That there were gaps in Teyla's character...don't get me started with that.

                              I think for us to see Teyla as is, we have to forget about Sunday's scene with Dr. Hewston, because when that scene occurred, I came to this thread livid because that's not the Teyla that I knew up to that point. I never once bought the idea that Teyla would first so casually talk to a stranger that way, and about something so personal. So from the start that entire scene disturbed me and it still does because it is hard to believe, not that Teyla had feelings for John and that she wouldn't make the first move, but that she would casually leave it as is.

                              I have many different views on Teyla. The writers certainly weren't consistent, but honestly, they gave us more background on Teyla and Kanaan that to me was more plausible than they did with Nancy and John!

                              She came out of nowhere!

                              Teyla visited her people, and had a private life that we never saw beyond Atlantis.

                              And yes, I can believe that Teyla would go with Kanaan and stay with him for her son. That's exactly why she's doing, that's exactly why she keeps referring him as the father of her son. That statement alone tells you that the importance for her is to have the father of her son there. And that means for her to be with him as well.

                              In real life there are many who marry a woman/man simply because she got pregnant. Otherwise, they'd never get married, and somehow, they do make it work. Not all of them, but some do. Why is it then hard to believe that Teyla would stay with Kanaan for her son especially when the man we believe she loves in five years hasn't shown any differently to her than a team-mate or any commitment?

                              John never made a move on Teyla. I believe that Kanaan was as she stated, an accident. And when the pregnancy became a factor, all other pieces came into play. Remember that Teyla's people believe in Prophecy's and Destiny. So, yes...

                              Now, like you, I agree, all of this played out in this matter simply and only because of Rachels' unexpected pregnancy. Add to that, that before the mid section of Season 5, the writers already knew there would be no season 6, and it fits to what transpired between Kanaan/Teyla/John.

                              Because up and until Search and Rescue, it was very clear that the writers were still playing with John and Teyla. And even after that, there are enough tidbits here and there to show that Teyla and John do still have feelings for each other.

                              No, I don't believe that Teyla consciously intends to have John wait for her or vice versa, but I think she's definitely decided that she wants to stay with John's team. It's a completely different Teyla that we saw from The Return who opted to stay with her people. But also remember that in EATG, they were in danger. And when Teyla decided to stay with John's team after her child was born, she decided to be with them in the good and in the bad. That everytime she went on a mission she was leaving her child behind in the care of trustworthy hands to care and raise her son. She didn't make that decision in EATG, she made it the day she told John and Woolsey she was staying as part of John's team and Kanaan accepted, understood and complied with her decision. He knew very well that any day he could get the news that she was dead! So, he knew who he was sleeping with and what that entail. So, that Teyla left for Earth to be there with her team mates as she always is, that make sense to me too because she was doing it everytime she left with John and the rest in an off-world mission or just staying in Atlantis, she was saying that she was going all the way with them and leaving her child behind was all part of that decision for her. I think that came across very clear.

                              Kanaan was an accident that she accepted her responsibility for her son, more so than for herself or her people.

                              That's how I see it and that lets me sleep at night!
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                                Originally posted by bluealien View Post
                                I've just checked with Amazon again .. no word on it. Hopefully it won't be too much longer..

                                I'm hoping most will have it by next week and then the discussions can start. It would be nice to have it as as on going discussion though have the Q&A on the entire book..
                                Excellent. I'll take that into consideration. And will let you know. Like you stated, hopefully by next week we can all have it. I guess Amazon is a bit slower on getting its orders. I read it online but I still want to get the copy too.
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