John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Jeyla4ever]

I love those two scenes too! Yes, that's what it would look like, only a little more privately affectionate. Not much, just a tweak. That's one of my favorite episodes.

The other thing I love is at the very end of the second scene, the way she flexes her feeding hand and looks after him just as Todd did looking after her. Complicated. So complicated, the emotions that come with her gift. John has exactly the right temperament for a Wraith commander, and he sure looks nice down on his knees....

If I were writing it that's the way I'd go!

*claps madly*

[Artie]

Great, great points, Artie.

I see Teyla as that kind of a person from what we saw in her in the show. She's the type that after seeing so many deaths and so much grief that if now she was having a baby, she'd want to do everything in her power to have her child be with the father. What she lost, she would fight for her child to have. And so I think that went on with her constant wording of Kanaan, not as her lover, but as the father of her son. So, whether the writers did this on purpose or not, I'm still grateful for it, because otherwise, I think it would have shown another side of Teyla that hadn't beens shown from her before. Again, it's not about making Teyla the MarySue or the perfect one...No! That's not it for me. But for Teyla and her people, family meant everything to her. Teyla's people are one in the same. They watch out for one another. They decide things together, collectively. So, there's certainly acceptance and individuality, but also there's a fine line of pride and culture that does present this type of scenario. .

I think that's another huge good point! Teyla is not from Earth, and her culture is not American culture. I can see that the Athosians are much more collective in their decision making and in their community. They'd have to be because of the reality of the Cullings. When anybody might be taken at any time it makes sense to have a wider sense of responsibility. So many parents never see their children grow up, and so many children must be raised by people who aren't biologically related. It fosters a sense of community responsibility. In a sense, all children are everybody's children, and everyone is responsible for the ongoing life of the community. Torren is about the continuation of the Athosians, not just about her and Kanaan. Which is why I don't think she'd have any problem with John standing as a father to him in addition to Kanaan, not in place of Kanaan.

But going back to your point...mistakes....yes! But when is it a mistake to find comfort in the arms of another? I think it was a spur of the moment, and the consequences came in the form of an unexpected child. Again, I think that plotline wasn't the problem, it was the way it ultimately unravelled with too many gaps in between. .

I think it was spur of the moment too. I think she went to Kanaan for comfort after Kate died, because Teyla was obviously hit hard by that.

I gave up on Jack and Sam after season 3. I loved those two, but they never came close to me as the chemistry that was seen between John and Teyla. John is more expressive, more sensitive, more led by emotions and passion. I love that about the guy. It could be seen as his weakness, but that to me, only makes him stronger. And Teyla...the whole idea that she's from another galaxy, a woman with such soul and yet so cultured....that defines beauty, strength and a powerful ally. They just matched perfectly because I think they compliment one another perfectly. .

I love Jack and Sam too. Very different, but just as interesting to me!

[bluealien]

Yep. It's the old double standard that women are either virgins or whores. Teyla must be in her mid thirties. Are we really supposed to believe she's never had a relationship before? It seems really unlikely to me that she hasn't been married before or at least in a serious relationship. And all the stuff there is to do with that! Did he die tragically? Did they split painfully? That's got to play into her hesitation with John. If he died, then can she emotionally risk that again? If they split, does she have a Nancy story of her own that hurts just as much?

Oh I know... pretty childish and shows how clueless the writers are when it comes to woman and relationships... I'm sure Teyla must have had a relationship in the past and probably a serious one... its pretty unrealistic to think such a beautiful woman wouldnt have fallen in love before... and even more unealistic that she would settle for someone as bland as Kanaan...

I think it's really interesting that neither Teyla nor anybody else refers to Kanaan as her husband. Which says to me that he isn't. For that matter, we don't know what the Athosians think about marriage in the first place. We never see any Athosian refer to anybody as a husband or a wife. We have no idea what the rules are. They could be anything.

There is no way Kanaan is Teyla's husband... I'm not even sure they are still in a relationship.. they are sharing the parenting of Torren and thats it imo...

I also really love the scene where John tells Sam that Teyla's pregnant, not just because it's a good John and Sam scene, but because Sam is so clearly taken aback that John doesn't say he's the father!

I agree... I think Ronon was just as shocked as well..

And the sad thing about this is that Babylon 5 showed that having the lead male commander character in a marriage can and does work. It's all about the writing. I don't mean to sound like a broken record here, but again, great writing can achieve anything. And, the fact of the matter is that JT was set up to happen so well over the course of 3 years that even "just okay" writing would have done a sufficient job in putting them together in season 4. It really was a missed opportunity.

Indeed... as I said before they had everything going for them to make them an interesting couple that could have added so much more to the story...

There was one S5 JT gem aside from the opening scene in S&R, and it's in The Queen (by Allan McCullough). This is what JT would have looked like if they were to happen (imo). It definitely wouldn't have been a "soap opera" like some people have suggested. Both John and Teyla are in his room, and he's sitting on the bed, and they are talking about whether or not she should go through with assisting Todd by temporarily becoming a Wraith.

They are exactly how I would see them together as a couple as well... some wonderful tender moments where they can share their love and concern for one another .. and totally believable... excellent vid and again it shows how amazing they were together and how right they were for each other...

And then here's the closing scene where he comes and checks up on her.

Another poignant moment... nothing needed to be a soap opera .. both John and Teyla are far too professional for that and neither would be flaunting their relationship .... I think only those close to them would know...

This is what JT would have looked like if they were together in my opinion, they just would have been a bit more affectionate with no one looking if the moment called for it.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with your 2 cents...

[Jeyla4ever]

I think that's another huge good point! Teyla is not from Earth, and her culture is not American culture. I can see that the Athosians are much more collective in their decision making and in their community. They'd have to be because of the reality of the Cullings. When anybody might be taken at any time it makes sense to have a wider sense of responsibility. So many parents never see their children grow up, and so many children must be raised by people who aren't biologically related. It fosters a sense of community responsibility. In a sense, all children are everybody's children, and everyone is responsible for the ongoing life of the community. Torren is about the continuation of the Athosians, not just about her and Kanaan. Which is why I don't think she'd have any problem with John standing as a father to him in addition to Kanaan, not in place of Kanaan.

Exactly. You worded what I couldn't. And yet, isn't it something that the writers almost showed Teyla as wanting Torren in Atlantis at all times and not so much with the Athosians. Even when Kanaan left to New Athos, Torren always stayed behind. Now, I wonder if that's all part of how Teyla sees herself now as more with the Atlantians than with her own people or if this was just another side tracked point by the writers. I think personally, the latter. Ever since Season 1 when the Athosians left Atlantis, they were pretty much a mute point. Sad too.

I think it was spur of the moment too. I think she went to Kanaan for comfort after Kate died, because Teyla was obviously hit hard by that.

U know, in Doopleganger, it almost felt like Teyla went to John for that comfort and he simply didn't offer it to her. Didn't understand, didn't get it. Oblivious. I think one of the writers mentioned that the scene between them in his room was edited out. See, if they would have made John the father, that would have been the moment! Missed opportunity!

I love Jack and Sam too. Very different, but just as interesting to me!

Yes, they are very different. I love Jack. He's too damned good!!! So unlike Sheppard. And my biggest fear when seeing the previews to Rising, was that John was trying to hard to be like Jack. I'm so glad I stuck around to find out that he wasn't. John took me three seasons to fall in love with him on his own. Because I saw him up till then only through Teyla's eyes. Now, now I see him as the man that he is and I love him so much more for it.

[Jeyla4ever]

Oh I know... pretty childish and shows how clueless the writers are when it comes to woman and relationships... I'm sure Teyla must have had a relationship in the past and probably a serious one... its pretty unrealistic to think such a beautiful woman wouldnt have fallen in love before... and even more unealistic that she would settle for someone as bland as Kanaan...

She doesn't have to have had a serious relationship because we see that Teyla is not the one to make the first move and we see from day one that she isn't the type to easily be swayed by damn good looks like John. It took her about 5 minutes before she actually saw him and smiled!

But certainly she must have had love and felt what a girls' crush is like, if not love. Remember that Teyla was chosen or destined to be leader of Atlantis. And if we follow her lineage, it must have been something that was brought down from family to family. From what it seems anyways. Clearly, Teyla never cared to be leader for when Atlantis came along, she really didn't think twice about leaving her post, even if she had the best intentions. She could have remained as leader of her people and still have that alliance with Atlantis, but she wanted more. So, we must assume that up till that point where we pick up Teyla, there was no one for her that she needed to stay behind. Also, Teyla was in her twenties at the time, right? So, considering her people and considering her calling, I don't necessarily think that Teyla was thinking of settling anytime soon with anyone 1. Being a leader, and 2. Now with her role in Atlantis. At least not with an Athosian. She needed someone like John, that would understand and fight alongside her.

There is no way Kanaan is Teyla's husband... I'm not even sure they are still in a relationship.. they are sharing the parenting of Torren and thats it imo...

I think I'm going to adopt your thinking, Blue! It makes sense.

I agree... I think Ronon was just as shocked as well..

He was so wonderful. He was funny, understanding and felt the pain for both of them. No one better than Ronon knows what these two are going through and yet, he's there for them both. LOVE HIM! I think Ronon knows better about their own feelings even better than they do.

[Jeyla4ever]

Artie, A4life, Blue, Awinita....thanks for the convo. I have to leave now, and feed the family. Ugh, I don't know why they just can't make themselves some peanut butter and jelly.

[bluealien]

She doesn't have to have had a serious relationship because we see that Teyla is not the one to make the first move and we see from day one that she isn't the type to easily be swayed by damn good looks like John. It took her about 5 minutes before she actually saw him and smiled!

She didnt have to make the first move .. and looks don't have to come into it.. but I cant see someone so amazing not getting offers and not acting on them... it would have to be someone special and I can't believe she's in her mid thirties and hasnt met anyone special before...its certaintly a possibility.. I have to believe they were others better than Kanaan....she needs someone with fire and strenght.. didnt see any of these qualities in Kanaan...

[Princess Awinita]

Excellent points Awinita

And those are just a fraction of the many other moments when they are together and not together that you can tell that there's a mutual bond there that goes beyond anything that either Rodney and Keller nor any other pairing in Atlantis have ever shared.

Thanks Awinita. Well said.

Thanks Blue and Thread Momma! and yeah, those are just a small fraction that I can think off the top of my head at this point, its past O Dark 30 here where I'm at, so I'm a bit sleepy, but cvan't sleep for fear of throwing up again >.<, but yes, those are just a fraction. and I'm unable to think of more because I haven't seen any Atlantis (save for on hulu and Todou) and my time is constricted even more when classes start next monday for me

[Artie]

She didnt have to make the first move .. and looks don't have to come into it.. but I cant see someone so amazing not getting offers and not acting on them... it would have to be someone special and I can't believe she's in her mid thirties and hasnt met anyone special before...its certaintly a possibility.. I have to believe they were others better than Kanaan....she needs someone with fire and strenght.. didnt see any of these qualities in Kanaan...

I think there must have been somebody. But for one reason or another they're out of the picture by the time of The Rising. I'd lay good money on Halling knowing all about it! Of course John would ask Halling about it when hell freezes over!

Actually, I'd bet John does know about it by the end of fifth season. I can see them both being reluctant to get into a new relationship for similar reasons, and understanding that about each other.

[Jeyla4ever]

She didnt have to make the first move .. and looks don't have to come into it.. but I cant see someone so amazing not getting offers and not acting on them... it would have to be someone special and I can't believe she's in her mid thirties and hasnt met anyone special before...its certaintly a possibility.. I have to believe they were others better than Kanaan....she needs someone with fire and strenght.. didnt see any of these qualities in Kanaan...

Well, yes...Honestly, I don't think the writers thought this one too much.

But anything and everything is possible and the rules can bend for just about everything. But...if Teyla was actively in relationships with other men, and if she had, let's say at least one serious relationship that lasted awhile, how come she got pregnant with Kanaan on a one nighter and not before? Again, the answer can be many! Which also begs to question, how come she did in fact get pregnant this time around....so, I don't know. It's unclear and certainly up to many interpretations all which can be very plausible.

I think I remember once when Rachel mentioned that she was hoping the writers would bring about a plot for her of a past lover or something in her plot. Something to that nature.

I don't believe that Teyla has had any other child. Not by the way she reacted to her pregnancy with Torren and not by the words she mentioned to Lorne in SoW and not by what she said to the others, either. It doesn't fit.

But, that there were others, maybe..most likely. Yes! But I questioned that she had anything too seriously.

[bluealien]

I think there must have been somebody. But for one reason or another they're out of the picture by the time of The Rising. I'd lay good money on Halling knowing all about it! Of course John would ask Halling about it when hell freezes over!

Actually, I'd bet John does know about it by the end of fifth season. I can see them both being reluctant to get into a new relationship for similar reasons, and understanding that about each other.

That could explain why both of them were so reluctant to admit their feelings... had relationships that didnt work out in the past ... so many possibilities..

Well, yes...Honestly, I don't think the writers thought this one too much.

But anything and everything is possible and the rules can bend for just about everything. But...if Teyla was actively in relationships with other men, and if she had, let's say at least one serious relationship that lasted awhile, how come she got pregnant with Kanaan on a one nighter and not before?

Thats the million dollar question.... I'm sure the Athosians have some herbs or something they take... and with Teyla living on Atlantis I'm sure she had access to some precausions.. I didnt like the line about it just happened as if she was almost surprised that being intimate with someone could have consequenses...

They also portrayed Ronon like some caveman when clearly he came from a technologically advanced society...

I don't believe that Teyla has had any other child. Not by the way she reacted to her pregnancy with Torren and not by the words she mentioned to Lorne in SoW and not by what she said to the others, either. It doesn't fit.

It could have been a long time ago and like John, Teyla is a very private person... so who knows..

[Artie]

That could explain why both of them were so reluctant to admit their feelings... had relationships that didnt work out in the past ... so many possibilities....

Oh yes!

Thats the million dollar question.... I'm sure the Athosians have some herbs or something they take... and with Teyla living on Atlantis I'm sure she had access to some precausions.. I didnt like the line about it just happened as if she was almost surprised that being intimate with someone could have consequenses...

I'm sure Teyla would have had access to precautions in Atlantis -- but it's not like people don't forget to take the pill or not get their Depro shot on time or a bunch of other things.... And if she's not in a relationship at the moment, maybe it's not her first priority. If you miss a day, but you're not in a relationship anyway.... I mean, that's the kind of thing that happens.

As for the Athosians -- well, there are certainly plenty of ways of being intimate that don't result in pregnancy!

They also portrayed Ronon like some caveman when clearly he came from a technologically advanced society...

I hate that so much!

It could have been a long time ago and like John, Teyla is a very private person... so who knows..

I can see she wouldn't talk about another relationship or a child if it ended badly long ago. A baby who died or was taken in a Culling.... That would be so unbelievably painful I can't imagine she'd talk about it much.

[bluealien]

I'm sure Teyla would have had access to precautions in Atlantis -- but it's not like people don't forget to take the pill or not get their Depro shot on time or a bunch of other things.... And if she's not in a relationship at the moment, maybe it's not her first priority. If you miss a day, but you're not in a relationship anyway.... I mean, that's the kind of thing that happens.

You would have thought so.. its not like she is some inexperienced teenager...

As for the Athosians -- well, there are certainly plenty of ways of being intimate that don't result in pregnancy!

Indeed...

I can see she wouldn't talk about another relationship or a child if it ended badly long ago. A baby who died or was taken in a Culling.... That would be so unbelievably painful I can't imagine she'd talk about it much.

True... we only found out about John's marriage at the end of season 3.. and that was largely due to Ronon's probing...

[Jeyla4ever]

Well, I'm not here to claim that Teyla was a virgin before she hooked up with Kanaan, but there's more to this than that. But one thing is certain, she wasn't in any serious relationship when she came to Atlantis and up to her time with Kanaan. That alone is what....4 years without anything serious or intimate that we know of?

Bottom line, Teyla was ready and willing to a relationship with John due to her convo in Sunday with Dr. Hewston.

True that she's a very private person, but Teyla has always been very up front and forth when people have asked, and clearly with her convo with Dr. Hewston, who wasn't an Athosian and was just in the city for a couple of months, she entrusted something as personal as liking John, then I highly doubt that sharing something as important and as significant as having a baby before, never came up. But again, John's marriage came as a surprise even to Joe Flanigan. Anything is possible.

But....And again, by the way that she spoke to John and Dr. Keller and Ronon about her pregnancy, and the way she wanted to badly go and fight the Wraith despite the fact that she was pregnant, those are signs of a new mom.

A mom that doesn't know yet, the awful truth of restrictions that pregnancy can bring.

[bluealien]

Well, I'm not here to claim that Teyla was a virgin before she hooked up with Kanaan, but there's more to this than that. But one thing is certain, she wasn't in any serious relationship when she came to Atlantis and up to her time with Kanaan. That alone is what....4 years without anything serious or intimate that we know of?

Again maybe she just didnt talk about it.. like John didnt talk about Nancy..

Bottom line, Teyla was ready and willing to a relationship with John due to her convo in Sunday with Dr. Hewston.

Very true... I think both of them knew from the moment they met that there was something between them... and Teyla definitely indicated she was interested in John in Sunday... but maybe it took her this long to realise how much she felt for him because she had been hurt in the past...

True that she's a very private person, but Teyla has always been very up front and forth when people have asked, and clearly with her convo with Dr. Hewston, who wasn't an Athosian and was just in the city for a couple of months, she entrusted something as personal as liking John, then I highly doubt that sharing something as important and as significant as having a baby before, never came up. But again, John's marriage came as a surprise even to Joe Flanigan. Anything is possible.

Admitting feelings for someone is probably fairly exciting but talking about a lost child would be much more painfull... but its all just speculation anyway... for me it just helped explain why both of them were so cautious with their feelings...

But....And again, by the way that she spoke to John and Dr. Keller and Ronon about her pregnancy, and the way she wanted to badly go and fight the Wraith despite the fact that she was pregnant, those are signs of a new mom.

But didnt she also say that nothing changed during pregnancy...so maybe she had just carried on as normal but obviously hadnt come up against a Wraith queen before...