Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    I'm trying to cut down on spoilers (heh, like that's gonna last!! ) so I haven't read much of the Hot Zone stuff...seems like there was something interesting happening in it shipwise though...

    You know, ship really is in the eye of the beholder...to coin a phrase.
    I was watching Suspicion and 38 Minutes today, and I was seeing ship where there was no ship before...only cos I was looking out for it. I mean, I barely even noticed the moment at the end of 38 Minutes until my sister said it to me, but today I was going "How on Earth did this not scream ship at me?!?"

    Comment


      I've finished my set of screen caps for the episode — I was just going to edit the last post I made, but as it's a page back and I have a bunch of caps, I figured I'd just repost it. Bold text indicates links.

      "Hot Zone"
      Spoiler:

      Some were concerned that they were going after Sheppard/Teyla in this one, but the whole gym scene served mostly to establish that they’re “boxing buddies” who work out together. Also, it was this scene that allowed for Sheppard to defy Weir’s orders in the first place (more on that later). There was this little exchange that made me laugh:

      TEYLA: If this was really a fight—
      SHEPPARD: If this was really a fight, I would have shot you by now.

      It was an amusing buddy scene, but it also foreshadowed some things which would come later in the episode. Teyla has been teaching him this form of combat, and he hasn’t been practicing enough. He excuses it by saying that he would never have to use this in a real fight, instead of accepting the benefits of practicing this more. It also set up the fact that Sheppard just doesn’t listen to people who don’t agree with him.

      John’s first problem with Elizabeth putting the city in quarantine is that she made the decision without him. He didn’t have his radio with him in the gym (ended up borrowing Teyla’s), and since Elizabeth felt the decision had to be made quickly, she made it without his consultation. However, she was careful to note that she did not make this decision alone — she consulted Sergeant Bates about it, who agreed with her. After being told that the only way he’s getting out of there is if someone in hazmat gear brings him hazmat gear, John insists that she send someone immediately. Elizabeth refuses, telling him that the medical personnel are all busy, and that radio communication will have to suffice. John’s not happy about this, but he agrees, provided Elizabeth keep him informed.

      Not long after this, a third scientist dies, and Peterson, who is already infected, flees the Ancient lab during the commotion. Elizabeth orders the corridors locked down, but interestingly, McKay immediately tells her that she needs to send someone to stop him, because he knows enough about Ancient technology to override the locks. Peterson is heading toward the control room.

      When John finds out about this, he insists that someone has to stop Peterson, but Elizabeth reminds him that this is still a medical situation, not a military one. After a little more verbal sparring, she has Grodin seal the gym and tells John that she can’t risk him getting infected, because he is the ranking military officer on the expedition. He responds with “I can’t risk you getting infected,” and orders Bates to open the door. Bates hesitates when Elizabeth orders him not to do it, but eventually he follows John’s order instead.

      There’s definitely an aura of “I’m doing this at the risk of my life to save yours,” but I’m not sure if it’s actually shippy. As Astro noted earlier, this is really, really manipulative of him. But this time Elizabeth doesn’t buy it. She insists that his intervention is not necessary, but then Bates opens the door anyway. And thus we have a very angry Elizabeth through the rest of the episode, knowing very well that her authority is quickly crumbling.

      Next up we get Teyla and John suiting up in a lab. Teyla tells him in no uncertain terms that he shouldn’t have undermined Elizabeth’s command in front of a subordinate. His response is that Elizabeth occasionally makes a decision and refuses to budge. Teyla points out that Elizabeth isn’t the only one.

      Others have brought up the next moment in the episode, and I’m still not sure what it’s supposed to indicate. As John asks for Peterson’s location, the camera zooms in on Elizabeth, who is staring intently at the monitor of her laptop. There’s relatively ominous piano music underneath the scene (and you all know how much I draw from musical cues). She doesn’t answer, and I first thought she was infected by the disease somehow. Then, in an annoyed tone, John calls her by first name to get her attention. Then she tells him where Peterson is, and John and Teyla head out.

      I found it interesting in this scene that John refers to Elizabeth twice by name, once in speaking of her and the other to her. At some point between “The Eye” and here, he seems to have gotten comfortable enough with her to address her that informally. But I think it’s also another subtle form of manipulation on his part. Elizabeth did the same thing to him in “Rising”, when they were arguing about the best course of action. John seems to be reversing her own tactics.

      The next scene with the two of them is the most explosive of the episode. When Peterson manages to use a transporter to get to the mess hall and exposes the people there, the city puts itself into an automatic quarantine, which includes locking down the transporters. John mouths off and says that it would have been a good idea for them to do that before, and Elizabeth gets very sharp with him for it. If you thought she was mad at Kavanaugh in “Thirty-Eight Minutes”, you haven’t seen anything yet. And she has every right to be angry with him. They had disabled the transporters, but in order to let John and Teyla into that section of the city to subdue Peterson, they had to power up the corridor, which included the transporters.

      (This, incidentally, is where Grodin’s odd half-smile comes in. It’s strange in part because it isn’t cut to, but rather panned to, suggesting that it was intentionally placed there, not because they needed extra seconds.)

      Toward the end of the episode they decide that an electromagnetic pulse is the only way to knock out the virus, and when it’s determined that the pinch they have won’t do the job, John comes up with an idea to create an EMP strong enough by creating a nuclear explosion high in the atmosphere with a naquadah generator. Once again, McKay is backing John on the issue while Elizabeth maintains that it’s too risky. John wants to know if she’s more willing to sacrifice a third of the expedition, and the implication is that it’s a matter of risking them or him, because the only other risk mentioned is the computer equipment. In light of the earlier comments about her being unwilling to risk him, I’d imagine that that was what it was referring to.

      When she gives the go on the stupid plan to save the day, Elizabeth really looks sick about what she’s just done, and John really looks like he regrets having pushed her as far as he did. And then John looks like he’s about to vomit a bit later, which has absolutely no bearing on this discussion. At any rate, we get the obligatory communications-were-knocked-out scene, in which Elizabeth looks a little scared when John doesn’t report for a full twenty-six seconds. There are reactions from the rest of the crew, who are all worried that John has sacrificed himself to save them.

      Interestingly, for an episode so very heavy in Sheppard/Weir interaction, they’re only physically together in one scene, which is the last of the episode. John is seated in front of her desk, looking extremely uncomfortable, and Elizabeth asks if he’s okay. Instead of the clear honesty with which she answered that question in “The Eye”, he jokes about nuclear explosions. Then Elizabeth tells him that his idea to blow up the reactor high in the atmosphere was a good one. John thanks her, somewhat sarcastically, and tries to leave, but then we get this:

      ELIZABETH: We need to discuss what happened earlier.
      JOHN: Now?
      ELIZABETH: That can never happen again.

      He tries to apologize, but Elizabeth cuts him off, telling him that she respects his position as ranking military officer, but that she will decide what is and what is not a military matter. Then she tells him that both General O’Neill and Colonel Sumner warned her about John, saying that he has no respect for the chain of command. He tries to make an excuse about seeing things from a different perspective, but Elizabeth lays it on the line for him: what he did was reckless. The fact that he saved Elizabeth’s life (which he throws in her face) doesn’t change the fact that he has to follow her orders.

      ELIZABETH: I know you did. But you have to trust me.
      JOHN: *hesitates* I do.
      ELIZABETH: Do you?

      At that point, Beckett and McKay walk in to discuss the virus. In part it’s because there’s forty seconds to go in the episode, but it also leaves this issue wide open. It’ll be interesting to see where they go with this. John seems quite aware that he abused his friendship with Elizabeth, and she’s hurting on both a professional level and a personal level. And to be honest, it’s actually kind of refreshing to see this level of conflict among the heroes extend past the end credits.

      All in all, “Hot Zone” was an interesting episode, Teyla’s questionable wardrobe notwithstanding. You’ll notice that I didn’t really touch on the main plot with the virus, because there was so much here in this power struggle subplot. David Hewlett was quite amazing in this episode, and the performances in general just floored me. But what impressed me most was where this episode took John and Elizabeth. As comfortable as they seemed with each other in “Home”, “Underground”, and “The Defiant One”, this was bound to happen sooner or later, and it was great to see it dealt with head-on.
      Mirror, Mirror: Melyanna's multi-fandom fic site
      Last update: 14 April 2006
      Melyanna's Multimedia
      Last update: 15 February 2006

      Comment


        Oo its like reading a story with pictures! :-D
        ~Athena

        Comment


          I gave in and read your post Mel! Sounds like a great episode, I can't wait!

          Comment


            Athena — yeah, but didn't you see the episode?

            shelfsc, it really was a fantastic episode all around, and even if you take things in the least shippy light possible (Liv? ), it's still an important episode for our pair. Someone on the Yahoo group described it as the first real "you're not getting sex for a month" fight. There's a lot that happened, and I'm hoping they continue to deal with it. "Hot Zone" and beyond
            Spoiler:
            They've got to do something to restore Elizabeth's authority before "The Siege". It was bad enough that John could talk her into things and others had begun to notice. The fact that he defied her outright and got a subordinate to disobey her orders is much worse. I was actually surprised that Elizabeth was as calm as she was in the last scene. I know she had had time to simmer down, but had she been a military commander, I don't think she would have taken the time to calm herself before reprimanding John.
            Mirror, Mirror: Melyanna's multi-fandom fic site
            Last update: 14 April 2006
            Melyanna's Multimedia
            Last update: 15 February 2006

            Comment


              Originally posted by Melyanna
              and even if you take things in the least shippy light possible (Liv? ), it's still an important episode for our pair.
              You called?

              Yeah, it wasn't a shippy episode for me but it was very interesting in ways of the dynamic that these characters share. It even felt like they had more shared screen time together, beyond that final scene in Weir's office.


              Originally posted by Melyanna
              Spoiler:
              Some were concerned that they were going after Sheppard/Teyla in this one, but the whole gym scene served mostly to establish that they’re “boxing buddies” who work out together. Also, it was this scene that allowed for Sheppard to defy Weir’s orders in the first place (more on that later). There was this little exchange that made me laugh:

              TEYLA: If this was really a fight—
              SHEPPARD: If this was really a fight, I would have shot you by now.

              It was an amusing buddy scene, but it also foreshadowed some things which would come later in the episode. Teyla has been teaching him this form of combat, and he hasn’t been practicing enough. He excuses it by saying that he would never have to use this in a real fight, instead of accepting the benefits of practicing this more. It also set up the fact that Sheppard just doesn’t listen to people who don’t agree with him.
              Spoiler:
              I shared the concern in that they would try to make the stick fighting with Teyla 'shippy'. I also agree that that's not the way it came out, at all. Like you, I saw it as them training in a very 'buddy' way. I actually really enjoyed that scene. (In no way does it have anything to do with him getting whupped on the butt. Nope. ) But really, it was a very good scene. They're very comfortable around each other already.

              I loved the "I would have shot you by now" comment too. Teyla reacted in a very 'I'm rolling my eyes at you' - way.

              I'm curious if it was Teyla who approached him about the training or if it was the other way around.



              Originally posted by Melyanna
              Spoiler:
              When John finds out about this, he insists that someone has to stop Peterson, but Elizabeth reminds him that this is still a medical situation, not a military one. After a little more verbal sparring, she has Grodin seal the gym and tells John that she can’t risk him getting infected, because he is the ranking military officer on the expedition. He responds with “I can’t risk you getting infected,” and orders Bates to open the door. Bates hesitates when Elizabeth orders him not to do it, but eventually he follows John’s order instead.

              There’s definitely an aura of “I’m doing this at the risk of my life to save yours,” but I’m not sure if it’s actually shippy. As Astro noted earlier, this is really, really manipulative of him. But this time Elizabeth doesn’t buy it. She insists that his intervention is not necessary, but then Bates opens the door anyway. And thus we have a very angry Elizabeth through the rest of the episode, knowing very well that her authority is quickly crumbling.
              Spoiler:
              Sheppard, to me, is a man who cares very much about the people around him. I think this goes way beyond his responsibilities as a military man. And so the way this scene reads, IMO, is that he wants to do everything in his power to help out and he doesn't want to listen to reason right then. He's going stir crazy just sitting around and not being able to affect the situation in any way. I don't think either of them have any hidden meaning in their statements to each other. Obviously, if either one of them were to lose their lives it would be an absolute catastrophy. Both of them are imperative to this expedition.



              Originally posted by Melyanna
              Spoiler:
              Others have brought up the next moment in the episode, and I’m still not sure what it’s supposed to indicate. As John asks for Peterson’s location, the camera zooms in on Elizabeth, who is staring intently at the monitor of her laptop. There’s relatively ominous piano music underneath the scene (and you all know how much I draw from musical cues). She doesn’t answer, and I first thought she was infected by the disease somehow. Then, in an annoyed tone, John calls her by first name to get her attention. Then she tells him where Peterson is, and John and Teyla head out.
              Spoiler:
              I took that to mean that she was so angry with him for not following her orders and for undermining her authority, that she couldn't even answer him right away. It felt like she was contemplating on whether or not to let him have his way, in letting him know where Peterson was.




              Originally posted by Melyanna
              Spoiler:
              I found it interesting in this scene that John refers to Elizabeth twice by name, once in speaking of her and the other to her. At some point between “The Eye” and here, he seems to have gotten comfortable enough with her to address her that informally. But I think it’s also another subtle form of manipulation on his part. Elizabeth did the same thing to him in “Rising”, when they were arguing about the best course of action. John seems to be reversing her own tactics.
              Spoiler:
              I agree, I find it very interesting that they're on first name basis already. I'm not sure I read it as manipulation from either of them, though. Things just seems to be a bit more informal in Atlantis than back on SG-1. Weir called him John at the end of Rising too, when she was commending him on how he handled things with the rescue of the Athosians. To be honest, I was a bit surprised that she called him John instead of Major in that scene, but I liked it.



              Originally posted by Melyanna
              Spoiler:
              ELIZABETH: I know you did. But you have to trust me.
              JOHN: *hesitates* I do.
              ELIZABETH: Do you?
              Spoiler:
              This was interesting, because the implication here would seemingly be that he doesn't quite trust her [note: in making the right decision], but I also don't think it's that simple. He seems to have a great deal of trust in the people around him, overall, and so I think it's more to do with him - as he said - sometimes seeing things in a different light. I think that's the way it's always been for him when approaching situations out of the ordinary (what happened in Afganistan, for instance), and I think it's difficult for him to let go of that.




              Originally posted by Melyanna
              Spoiler:
              I was actually surprised that Elizabeth was as calm as she was in the last scene. I know she had had time to simmer down, but had she been a military commander, I don't think she would have taken the time to calm herself before reprimanding John.
              Spoiler:
              Surprised me too, and I thought it interesting that John tried to "sneak" out and him asking "Now?" as if he didn't see it coming that they would have this talk. Or rather, he did see it coming, but tried to avoid the issue altogether. I doubt very much he would have tried that with a military officer in charge.
              Last edited by Liv; 26 November 2004, 03:08 PM. Reason: Typo
              Shin ~ def. A device for finding furniture in the dark.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Melyanna
                Athena — yeah, but didn't you see the episode?
                ...yes i did see the episode already, but it still fun to read comments with pictures.
                ~Athena

                Comment


                  For fanfic addicts, (myself being one of them), fanfiction.net has some new Sheppard/Weir stuff...

                  and it's a good excuse to bump this up from page 3..

                  Edited to add: I got so sick of waiting for new fanfic, I wrote one myself. It's at:

                  http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2151624/1/
                  Last edited by astronomicalchick; 29 November 2004, 03:15 PM.

                  Comment


                    bumping this up again!!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by astronomicalchick
                      For fanfic addicts, (myself being one of them), fanfiction.net has some new Sheppard/Weir stuff...

                      and it's a good excuse to bump this up from page 3..

                      Edited to add: I got so sick of waiting for new fanfic, I wrote one myself. It's at:

                      http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2151624/1/
                      great fic Astro
                      Carolyn

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by samisjacksgal
                        great fic Astro
                        I'll second that, except for this one sentence:

                        "He’d fooled her, new sentence, semicolon, or dash here he’d actually been on page 170." (itallics addedm of course)

                        Forget to remove a note to yourself?


                        a time to mourn

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Hatcheter
                          I'll second that, except for this one sentence:

                          "He’d fooled her, new sentence, semicolon, or dash here he’d actually been on page 170." (itallics addedm of course)

                          Forget to remove a note to yourself?
                          Forgot to remove one of Mel's notes!

                          duh!

                          Sorted now.. sorry how annoying, that kind of thing drives me mad at other folk's fic...
                          Last edited by astronomicalchick; 30 November 2004, 12:48 AM.

                          Comment


                            Time for me to jump in on another ship...

                            Okay, I will admit, I didn't see Sheppard/Weir ship at first. I saw a hint of Sheppard/Teyla, and I thought Rodney had a thing for Elizabeth (I still think he has a thing for her, but it's just never gonna happen).

                            And then I saw The Eye. Do I need spoiler space? I'll put it in
                            Spoiler:
                            , first, his anger when he though she was dead, and his need to take revenge by killing every bad guy he came across gave me a clue. the way he changed whenhe heard she was alive, and rushed around trying to save Atlantis. And then the way he ran up to her at the end ('I'm not aiming at her' I just love that line)..just made my heart melt


                            so yeah, i guess i'm on-board with the Sheppard/Weir ship. Now I have to catch up on spoilers and see what I've missed.
                            Michelle's Fanfic Here My Original Fic

                            Comment


                              Welcome aboard, Michelle!

                              I'd suggest reading the information about and/or watching "Thirty-Eight Minutes", "Underground", and "Home", as you've seen "The Eye" already. Those were the episodes that made me go "Huh? Are they really doing this, or am I nuts?" And then "The Eye" just made me blink and wonder how it could be anything else.
                              Mirror, Mirror: Melyanna's multi-fandom fic site
                              Last update: 14 April 2006
                              Melyanna's Multimedia
                              Last update: 15 February 2006

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by michelleb
                                Time for me to jump in on another ship...

                                Okay, I will admit, I didn't see Sheppard/Weir ship at first. I saw a hint of Sheppard/Teyla, and I thought Rodney had a thing for Elizabeth (I still think he has a thing for her, but it's just never gonna happen).

                                And then I saw The Eye. Do I need spoiler space? I'll put it in
                                Spoiler:
                                , first, his anger when he though she was dead, and his need to take revenge by killing every bad guy he came across gave me a clue. the way he changed whenhe heard she was alive, and rushed around trying to save Atlantis. And then the way he ran up to her at the end ('I'm not aiming at her' I just love that line)..just made my heart melt


                                so yeah, i guess i'm on-board with the Sheppard/Weir ship. Now I have to catch up on spoilers and see what I've missed.
                                Aha I wondered when you would delurk in this thread....

                                Good to see you..

                                Hey guys, Michelle writes FANFIC..,.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X