Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

Have a look around the various threads. You'll be amazed at the number of people with "made by Whistler" under their sigs!
Definitely arty!

Including mine. Sigh...

It seems that horrible things always happen to some of the best people. I had no idea that she had breast cancer as she never mentioned it. I'm sure Gateworld was a nice distraction and way to keep her mind from things she was going thru in RL. I'm sure Whis was as nice and gentle a person in RL as she was here on the boards. Blessed are the peacemakers and she certainly was one. God Bless her family and friends during a tough time. Whistler, I know you're still out there in spirit. Know that you'll be missed here.

[FoolishPleasure]

Um, Joe, Honey, listen to Bama carefully now. I've got ONE simple word for you AND your character: FORTY.

And in case that was too difficult to comprehend and make-out, let me make it easy for ya. 40

Capesh darlin?

OMG. . .LMAO!

[Bama]

The point I promissed you is coming now !!!!

I never thought that he was able to see her in a shallow sexual way like he does the others, even Teyla. My point is: he can't see her in sexual way because she is his chosen way. She is greater to him then that and I think that is how he sees her and that is why she is so important to him right now.

It will be interesting the fact that now that Shep is begining to find himself, Weir will begin to loose herself and the cycle will be completed because she will receive from him what she is now giving to him. And surely this will mean huge things to come sparky wise. When he begins seeing her as a fragile and breaking down person as he used to be, his view of her will change and only then this relationship may go to a phisical level, of course the alien entity stuff in TLG doesn't count, but not before, IMHO.

HUH. Thankfully for you and me this post is over !!!!!!!

You make a wonderful point AF. And I think you're right. Shep and Elizabeth aren't 'above sex' and the feelings blossoming between them aren't "too pure for sex". I ABHOR that argument because it's simply so lame. If I heard it once following the XF, I heard it a zillion.

The love growing between them -and yes, that *is* what it is folks-what else you gonna call it? Well, anyhoo, the love slowly growing between them is simply *more* than sexual in nature. You can have sex without the love but you can't be in love with someone and not want the making love imo. You may be denied it for some reason or even have to find ulterior ways based on circumstance, but the want to share the ultimate physical acknowledgement of the heart is still there. And between two people that love heart to heart, there is nothing cheap or dirty or "kirkish" about it.

[gwenhwyfar]

You make a wonderful point AF. And I think you're right. Shep and Elizabeth aren't 'above sex' and the feelings blossoming between them aren't "too pure for sex". I ABHOR that argument because it's simply so lame. If I heard it once following the XF, I heard it a zillion.

The love growing between them -and yes, that *is* what it is folks-what else you gonna call it? Well, anyhoo, the love slowly growing between them is simply *more* than sexual in nature. You can have sex without the love but you can't be in love with someone and not want the making love imo. You may be denied it for some reason or even have to find ulterior ways based on circumstance, but the want to share the ultimate physical acknowledgement of the heart is still there. And between two people that love heart to heart, there is nothing cheap or dirty or "kirkish" about it.

I agree with both of you completely. I wouldn't say the love is 'Soulmates" or something cheesy like that. But it's not purely physical either.

Though I have to ask the question.

Does anybody think that the love John and Liz are growing is true love?

[Chrysalis]

At the Peg 1 con..Joe said he's actually shot down a high number of 'kirking' ideas that the writers had come up with originally. And he also said he didn't think his character has been that bad with it. 3-4 episodes out of 40...And I suppose I could agree with that. He said that Shep's a guy like any other and that he preferes action stories but that romance could fit into that.

In regards to Epiphany...He said that he wrote the original script, which happened to contain a lot less 'romance', that most of it was added after his version. He said it was no longer in his hands once it's handed over and 'tweaked' by the writers. After that, he really had no say.

My take on Joe is this: he's an intelligent guy. No denying it. He likes action scenes. He's admitted that. I mean, he gets to fly puddle jumpers and shoot aliens, and he has two little boys who are going to win any "my dad's cooler than your dad" argument they ever enter into.
I think that's it. He's a boy, he's doing stuff that boys think is cool. That's what he likes.
On the other hand, with his "there's no ship" stuff. Really. He interacts with Torri in a way that he doesn't interact with any of the other actors on screen. There's a different way that Shep speaks to Elizabeth, and that has to be down to the two of them playing around with the ship issue.
I think he's a little bit of a stirrer! Maybe he prefers action to ship, but he's definitely involved in the ship side of things.
It's also good to know Epiphany wasn't originally intended as a Kirking episode.
As for his wife, I think she must be very understanding of all his "I get to work with hot chicks and get attention that I don't get at home" stuff. She's a former actress. She knows how it works. He's playing the media game. If he was the least bit kirklike in real life, he wouldn't openly be saying that he likes having hot chicks on the show.

[Easter Lily]

At the Peg 1 con..Joe said he's actually shot down a high number of 'kirking' ideas that the writers had come up with originally. And he also said he didn't think his character has been that bad with it. 3-4 episodes out of 40...And I suppose I could agree with that. He said that Shep's a guy like any other and that he preferes action stories but that romance could fit into that.

It's interesting that he should say that... I,myself, prefer action stories too. And if "romance" means The Tower and Epiphany, then by all means... bring on the action.
I don't think scifi should be driven by romance at all. But as a matter of course... with character development, romance can be given room to grow.

In regards to Epiphany...He said that he wrote the original script, which happened to contain a lot less 'romance', that most of it was added after his version. He said it was no longer in his hands once it's handed over and 'tweaked' by the writers. After that, he really had no say.

I would really love to know what was in the original...

With regards to Whistler... I'm stunned... completely and utterly... I had no idea that she was battling cancer much less going for surgery. I did notice that she greened me last week for my birthday. She really was one of the more level-headed people on Gateworld.
She will be missed.

[Easter Lily]

On the other hand, with his "there's no ship" stuff. Really. He interacts with Torri in a way that he doesn't interact with any of the other actors on screen. There's a different way that Shep speaks to Elizabeth, and that has to be down to the two of them playing around with the ship issue.
I think he's a little bit of a stirrer! Maybe he prefers action to ship, but he's definitely involved in the ship side of things.

I am convinced that he is stirring the pot... The man has a sense of humour and plays it up for what it's worth. I don't think we should worry. Honestly, whether or not JF deliberately interacts with Torri in a sparky-like manner really doesn't matter in a way because at the end of the day, many of us see the natural chemistry at work. Where they take that depends largely on the writing. Joe or Torri can talk up or talk down things all they want but it needs to be reflected in the writing and the acting as well.

As for his wife, I think she must be very understanding of all his "I get to work with hot chicks and get attention that I don't get at home" stuff. She's a former actress. She knows how it works. He's playing the media game. If he was the least bit kirklike in real life, he wouldn't openly be saying that he likes having hot chicks on the show.

I suspect that they have laughs over this. They must both be fairly secure in their marriage for him to say such things openly.

[Chrysalis]

I suspect that they have laughs over this. They must both be fairly secure in their marriage for him to say such things openly.

My point exactly. It's like those comedians who crack mother in law jokes. Generally speaking, they're fine with the mother in law -- otherwise they wouldn't dare to say anything.
Does that make any sense??

[Atlantean_Fan]

Atlantean Fan, your thoughts are very profound. John does try to make others like him, but he acts like he doesn’t care. I think he feel more a part of this Atlantis group than he ever has before. They accept him no matter what he does. And let’s face it, he has made some bad decisions, but the others just keep letting him. Both the military and the scientists seems to like and respect him. And he rises to the occasion every time, putting them first and always willing to sacrifice. But the number one person with him is Elizabeth. He shows it every day in every way in action and thought. You’re right he startles everybody with his intelligence at times, and he tries to hide it. After all, who would expect a smartaleck flyboy to be a genius?

Word !!! As his changing jorney progresses he becomes more assured to realise how and why people accept him and he doesn't have to be that shallow anymore to get this from everyone, although the playfull attitude still goes on, he is perhaps the only military guy everyone respects out of their environment, which means the military matters, specially McKay who doesn't seam to have that kind of respect to any of his co-workers, poor Zelenka!!!! You really got my point across !!! I was rewatching Siege III and that scene in which they were all talking about what to do next and come up with the

Spoiler:

cloaking the city plan

there was such unspoken interaction between McShep and Shep/Weir that you can't really see at first. Here we go again....

When Shep is repeating what Zelenka said about the Wraith

Spoiler:

keep coming as long as they think they are still there

, he is soo looking desperatly at McKay like saying "Didn't you get it yet" with his eyes. When he finally says

Spoiler:

"we desapear"

, Weir who was looking the exchange beetween McShep and Teyla who said something about the Wraith

Spoiler:

going away if they weren't there anymore

and the way Weir says "How?" and looks at him, she is so trying to make Shep let out to the whole room what she knows he knows and Shep desperately looks at Rodney again with that same look as saying "Didn't you get it yet, save me paw" and he finally gets it and he and Zelenka start to technobabble with each other, but when McKay finishes explaining the plan

Spoiler:

with the nuke explosion and fake self destruct

, Shep nods to him in acknowledgment like saying "Good Rodney that was the plan, you saved me." This three are priceless together, funnier than the subtext on this scene only when McKay

Spoiler:

dropped the ammo from his gun in the begining

.

I also love what you said about his change in relation to Liz. Just wait until you see season 2. You ain’t seen changing yet! You mention Sanctuary. He did do some changing after that. I don’t think it was a coincidence that he gave her the gift in the very next episode. A lot to make up for there and just to let her know that he wasn’t thinking about running back to see Chaya anytime soon. Even though I don’t believe there was any conscious attraction between the two of them at the time, a relationship was definitely building and deepening. Lately even with another growing threat or three breathing down their necks, I have felt a much lighter mood between the two of them. I'm still not sure they have become aware of each other fully as male/female, but they surely consider the other an extension of self. I can't even begin to predict what John thinks about in the deep of night. I mentioned nightmares earlier. Surely he has them. Remember what he said to Everett in I think Siege 2

Spoiler:

about how he felt about killing Sumner. And that's just one terrible thing among many he's had to do.

Now that Liz is going to a bad place, she probably has them too. I just know at some point they're going to run into each other in some dark part of Atlantis unable to sleep.

That I will like to see, both the growing change in their friendship and the nightmare stuff too and just word on the rest, except the Chaya bit, I think his encounter with her in the end of Sanctuary (you know the glowing stuff bit that I think is actually only a mind meld) was what actually gave him the epiphany I was talking about in that paragraph. Seeing how she ended up alone like that made him think stuff over and make the conscient choice to mend the stranded feelings with Liz, I don't think the events of Sanctuary were playing on his mind when he decided to do what he did in BIS, but the events in HZ instead, he wanted to try and connect to her to make for the hurt he had caused and when he noticed for sure her strengh and self assureness in that episode, he decided to go along with her for the ride, if you know what I mean. As I said he found the model he was looking for and stuff grew from there to what they are now.

You can tell lately that the people on this thread have a renewed excitement. Even with the GOW's and the possibility that the writers don't think like we do and it's all a mass hallucination, we still have hope. And no matter what they do they won't kill the friendship because that my friends is canon.

Word !! This friendship is so cannon. Sorry the infinite ignorance about abreviations, but what GOW is supposed to mean?

Now in honor of Whistler, let's just carry on the way she would.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...tlast2copy.jpg

The best way to remember someone we care about is to do what they liked to do and although I didn't know Whistler that well, I'm sure she loved to be here with us. I know I do when I can, you guys are so great !!!!! And I'm sorry I make you suffer with my lengthy posts.....

[Easter Lily]

My point exactly. It's like those comedians who crack mother in law jokes. Generally speaking, they're fine with the mother in law -- otherwise they wouldn't dare to say anything.
Does that make any sense??

I've been listening to some old Bill Cosby stand-up skits and quite a few of them are at the expense of his parents and his wife. They're hilarious of course... but I'm sure Mrs Cosby must have thicker skin than a crocodile and a great sense of humour to boot.

[Ebony Wolf]

I just found out about Whistler84. Thank you Terry for telling us. She was a really good person. I loved the sigs she made. I know I will miss her very much.

[Atlantean_Fan]

You make a wonderful point AF. And I think you're right. Shep and Elizabeth aren't 'above sex' and the feelings blossoming between them aren't "too pure for sex". I ABHOR that argument because it's simply so lame. If I heard it once following the XF, I heard it a zillion.

The love growing between them -and yes, that *is* what it is folks-what else you gonna call it? Well, anyhoo, the love slowly growing between them is simply *more* than sexual in nature. You can have sex without the love but you can't be in love with someone and not want the making love imo. You may be denied it for some reason or even have to find ulterior ways based on circumstance, but the want to share the ultimate physical acknowledgement of the heart is still there. And between two people that love heart to heart, there is nothing cheap or dirty or "kirkish" about it.

I'm glad you liked my point, Bama, took me forever to write enough to get there. Their relantionship is not based on she is hot or other shallow stuff, he thinks of her as someone he comes to identify himself more and more with as they grow in their parallel paths and he discovers the true him that lays beneath the surface.

[Atlantean_Fan]

I agree with both of you completely. I wouldn't say the love is 'Soulmates" or something cheesy like that. But it's not purely physical either.

Though I have to ask the question.

Does anybody think that the love John and Liz are growing is true love?

Sure it is, I don't think there is any doubts in my mind about this particular issue after the Bible I wrote last page. LOL.....

[xfkirsten]

I'm so sorry to hear about Whistler. I didn't know her very well myself, but I did really enjoy her posts here - she had some wonderful things to say, and made gorgeous sigs. My thoughts and prayers are with you and the rest of her family and friends.

[Major_Moomin]

I'm so sorry to hear about whistler...she was a big part of this forum and will be missed greatly. It's truly amazing how someone that you have never met can affect your life so much.
Please pass on my condolences to her loved ones. It must be a difficult time for you all.

-Rolo