Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Chrysalis]

So you DO have a kill switch....

One angsty Weir moment I noticed in "The Hive:"

Spoiler:

When Major Lorne told her that there was nothing to search for, i.e. thought John was dead, Weir turned back to go into her office and as she went into her office I spotted some tear wipeage...she quickly swiped her right hand across her right eye as she was walking back into her office....yup...she was grieving over her man!!

*shippy sigh*

Interesting. How much of that do you think was scripted, and how much do you think was Torri's interpretation? We know that she recognises the connection between Shep and Weir on some level. Even as a co-leader, his loss would be huge to her character. It's stuff like this that amazes me when it comes to Torri. She's so subtle. But what she does is so powerful!
And Joe can say what he likes --- we know he plays with the whole thing too in his scenes with Torri!

[Reyclou]

Interesting. How much of that do you think was scripted, and how much do you think was Torri's interpretation? We know that she recognises the connection between Shep and Weir on some level. Even as a co-leader, his loss would be huge to her character. It's stuff like this that amazes me when it comes to Torri. She's so subtle. But what she does is so powerful!
And Joe can say what he likes --- we know he plays with the whole thing too in his scenes with Torri!

On a moot point, wasn't she also mourning Teyla and Ronon?
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Nah. That was 100% Sparky angst, there. :-D

[Easter Lily]

I
And Joe can say what he likes --- we know he plays with the whole thing too in his scenes with Torri!

Well... of course he does... which is why we were gobbsmacked by certain comments he allegedly made... He is the King of the Long Looks and Nuances...
Sheppard and Weir don't always have to verbally communicate to be on the same wavelength... it's all about looks where these two are concerned. Their eyes lock in and they are like two people alone in a crowd. I don't think it's deliberate direction... they both just do it and that's how it comes across to me.

[Chrysalis]

Nah... Don't think I want Atlantis to turn into Cheaper by the Dozen or Seventh Heaven...
I'm an angst fanatic... It's far more interesting to continue with the long looks, UST, brooding, sparky... For me, it is paramount that their respective characters to develop some meat... Right now, they're still pretty much skin and bones... Sheppard, if he's not careful will waste away completely...

If I were doing the writing, I would explore as many facets of their relationship as possible... the leadership question: how would they balance their growing relationship with their responsibilties? What kind of dilemmas would they find themselves in? Would there be ghosts from the past coming back to haunt them? Would romance strengthen their capacity as leaders or diminish it?... Also I'm intrigued with the GRADUAL progression of them as colleagues becoming friends and then becoming lovers... How would that affect their dynamic as superior officer and subordinate... and of course, the response of the rest of the team to their growing friendship. To do this of course, we need to see lots of interaction in all kinds of situations. The situations are obviously supremely important but I think they need to deliberately factor in these kinds of interactions. It is really important for the writers to convince the viewer or to justify to the viewer why this relationship deserves to be.... and it's not some extraneous feature that annoys half of fandom.

To me the journey is as important, or more important than the destination.

If they can come up with something half as good as what JMS did with Sheridan and Delenn on B5, I'll be happy.

I absolutely agree with you. Look at all the shows that have gone along and decided to pair up their leads. Shows that those of us who were children of the 80s will remember, like Remmington Steele, Scarecrow and Mrs King, Moonlighting... They all ended abruptly as soon as the couples were paired off because it got boring.
Not that it's boring that they're together, but it gets boring when they're paired up and the writers don't know how to make them anything but husband and wife.
Shep and Weir are better than that. They have complexities and the actors who play them are absolutely able to play those out to their fullest potential.
The funny thing is, for a bunch of shippers, it's interesting that we're all saying "don't marry them off --- that's for fanfiction!"

[Erised]

nice catch, mad_gater

Interesting. How much of that do you think was scripted, and how much do you think was Torri's interpretation? We know that she recognises the connection between Shep and Weir on some level. Even as a co-leader, his loss would be huge to her character. It's stuff like this that amazes me when it comes to Torri. She's so subtle. But what she does is so powerful!
And Joe can say what he likes --- we know he plays with the whole thing too in his scenes with Torri!

Spoiler:

I wouldn't be surprised if part of it was Torri trying to make the sadness on her face look more real. It honestly looked soo good, I was like "whoa!" It was just amazing. She's an amazing actress.
She did seem like she was about to cry, or was already crying, when she heard the gate activate and turned to see whose IDC it was. If I'm not imagining thigs, her face even looked red, but I don't know how she could do it except for maybe remembering a sad event. (meh, probably just my crazy imagination)
When she heard that it was John's IDC, you could see a huge relief on her face and the way she said "Let them in!" Her face had a big smile as she ran to meet her John.
She was running down the stairs, shining with happyness, and the first person she looks at is John, she smiles at him, but knows she can't look at him too long because it will look suspicious.

too squeal-worthy for words!!!

[SlytherinGal]

i am still squeeing

[Chrysalis]

Well... of course he does... which is why we were gobbsmacked by certain comments he allegedly made... He is the King of the Long Looks and Nuances...
Sheppard and Weir don't always have to verbally communicate to be on the same wavelength... it's all about looks where these two are concerned. Their eyes lock in and they are like two people alone in a crowd. I don't think it's deliberate direction... they both just do it and that's how it comes across to me.

This is what makes me think that Joe's decided he'll have a bit of fun with us. It's got everyone talking, hasn't it? It's created a huge amount of interest in what's going to happen next with these characters. He's done the subtle "mess with the shippers" move, and they're probably all sitting back and waiting for us to obsess over the next ep for Shep/Weir scenes.
He does that non-verbal thing very well. I think Torri's the queen of it, and he's a close second in being able to do it as far as the cast goes.

[Chrysalis]

nice catch, mad_gater

Spoiler:

I wouldn't be surprised if part of it was Torri trying to make the sadness on her face look more real. It honestly looked soo good, I was like "whoa!" It was just amazing. She's an amazing actress.
She did seem like she was about to cry, or was already crying, when she heard the gate activate and turned to see whose IDC it was. If I'm not imagining thigs, her face even looked red, but I don't know how she could do it except for maybe remembering a sad event. (meh, probably just my crazy imagination)
When she heard that it was John's IDC, you could see a huge relief on her face and the way she said "Let them in!" Her face had a big smile as she ran to meet her John.
She was running down the stairs, shining with happyness, and the first person she looks at is John, she smiles at him, but knows she can't look at him too long because it will look suspicious.

too squeal-worthy for words!!!

Interesting point. Method acting! Using memory from your past to create a reaction in a scene. A lot of actors do that.. I don't know how they manage it! A bit tough if you ask me, but it's one of the techniques out there!

[gambit]

This is what makes me think that Joe's decided he'll have a bit of fun with us. It's got everyone talking, hasn't it? It's created a huge amount of interest in what's going to happen next with these characters. He's done the subtle "mess with the shippers" move, and they're probably all sitting back and waiting for us to obsess over the next ep for Shep/Weir scenes.
He does that non-verbal thing very well. I think Torri's the queen of it, and he's a close second in being able to do it as far as the cast goes.

Yeah, Joe has said all sorts of things about relationships. I believe he once said, in response to a whether Shep would prefer Weir or Teyla, he said something like, "why can't I have both?"

[Easter Lily]

I absolutely agree with you. Look at all the shows that have gone along and decided to pair up their leads. Shows that those of us who were children of the 80s will remember, like Remmington Steele, Scarecrow and Mrs King, Moonlighting... They all ended abruptly as soon as the couples were paired off because it got boring.
Not that it's boring that they're together, but it gets boring when they're paired up and the writers don't know how to make them anything but husband and wife.
Shep and Weir are better than that. They have complexities and the actors who play them are absolutely able to play those out to their fullest potential.
The funny thing is, for a bunch of shippers, it's interesting that we're all saying "don't marry them off --- that's for fanfiction!"

The key thing for me is that the writers don't know how to proceed when a couple has got together... after angsting over it for several years. I don't think see marriage as being the problem... Take Wash and Zoe from Firefly... they're a great married couple... They have their problems but they move on and they're excited about being married to each other. But for some reason, television writers have difficulty with writing married couples unless adultery comes into the equation.

[Chrysalis]

The key thing for me is that the writers don't know how to proceed when a couple has got together... after angsting over it for several years. I don't think see marriage as being the problem... Take Wash and Zoe from Firefly... they're a great married couple... They have their problems but they move on and they're excited about being married to each other. But for some reason, television writers have difficulty with writing married couples unless adultery comes into the equation.

So true! The thing with Zoe and Wash, though was that they were essentially a married couple from the beginning, as far as we were concerned, apart from a few flashbacks. We accepted them as a couple, and they almost had a reverse situation --- him staying on Serenity while she went off to work with Mal. That made them interesting.
I think that when working with pairings that develop over time when they see the chemistry between the characters, writers get completely lost! They don't know what to do!
Actually, look at The Practice, for those who watched it. Bobby and Lindsay. Great pair. Really good --- then they were married off, had a baby, got boring, got a divorce and Lindsay disappeared... I think. I don't remember her final episodes.

[Easter Lily]

Interesting point. Method acting! Using memory from your past to create a reaction in a scene. A lot of actors do that.. I don't know how they manage it! A bit tough if you ask me, but it's one of the techniques out there!

Yes... popularized by Lee Strasburgh (The Actor's Studio)... A lot of actors are into it... Sean Penn, Brad Dourif, Paul Newman... Actually they immerse themselves completely into the role... dress like the character, act like the character the entire time they're shooting the picture. Apparently Brad Dourif took his role of Wormtongue so seriously that he only reverted to his American accent only after he finished shooting.

[Chrysalis]

Yes... popularized by Lee Strasburgh (The Actor's Studio)... A lot of actors are into it... Sean Penn, Brad Dourif, Paul Newman... Actually they immerse themselves completely into the role... dress like the character, act like the character the entire time they're shooting the picture. Apparently Brad Dourif took his role of Wormtongue so seriously that he only reverted to his American accent only after he finished shooting.

Which is all very well unless you're playing a seriously disturbed character! That's when it gets to be a concern! Plenty of people have lost the plot a bit doing this sort of thing!
Great when it works, but not for everyone.

[Melyanna]

Yeesh, I leave for four hours and have four or five pages to catch up on...

Good thought E but they only change stuff like once a decade over there so I wouldn't be too concerned. Still, I'm incredibly glad you posted it here. It's just dadgum yummy. And is that a real promo shot or a manip of two they put up? If I'm not mistaken that's a combine deal? Hmmmm....

It's a manip. John is from one of the solo shots, and Elizabeth from one of the group shots. You can tell by the fact that Elizabeth isn't casting a shadow on John. Still, it's better than a similar Shep/Weir/Teyla shot they had up there over the summer, where the three weren't even in proportion to each other, and the person who did it hadn't bothered to do anything right with the hair.

It wasn't even romantic!
and instead of Liz, he apologized to Teyla! wtf?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/LJAtl/capture.jpg
Lizzie: "Apologize, Colonel!"

Have you read Little Red's Chord Progression? It's probably the best post-Conversion fic I've read, and the strongest argument that John didn't need to apologize to Elizabeth at all.

Quick point: Sheppard could easily still be piloting as a major. I'm not entirely sure about how Air Force helicopter units do it, but I've read articles about US Army Lt. Cols. who command battalions of helicopters, and fly them as well (specifically the Richardsons). It's a lot of responsibility, and a lot of work, but he potentially able to pilot at that rank.

And there I go with the not researching enough again. Still, I think it's probably more the exception than the rule. The impression we've gotten in the series is that John had never commanded anything, but as a major, he would have been in charge of quite a few people.

I think my point still stands, though. He's never been in the middle of a civil war in Mali, for example, where Elizabeth probably has. Sure, he'd seen combat, but he probably wouldn't have been on the ground to see children dying until he got to the Pegasus galaxy.

And Kawaii? You've got the origin of Sparky linked in your sig! How awesome is that.

[Erised]

Yeesh, I leave for four hours and have four or five pages to catch up on...


It's a manip. John is from one of the solo shots, and Elizabeth from one of the group shots. You can tell by the fact that Elizabeth isn't casting a shadow on John. Still, it's better than a similar Shep/Weir/Teyla shot they had up there over the summer, where the three weren't even in proportion to each other, and the person who did it hadn't bothered to do anything right with the hair.

It doesn't matter that it's a manipulation. It actually makes me feel better that it's not a real shot. Sci Fi people must know a lot more about the show and where it's headed, so the fact that they did a manip like that just confirms that our ship is the right one

Have you read Little Red's Chord Progression? It's probably the best post-Conversion fic I've read, and the strongest argument that John didn't need to apologize to Elizabeth at all.

No, I haven't. Thanks!