Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Sparky She-Demon]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!



What have I been saying all along? Sparky is on screen, therefore it is canon.

But really, I have to wonder about TPTW. I guess I'm still kind of in shock that anyone could actually be that clueless about how the things they wrote could be perceived by the audience and that, geewiz, people actually develop different interpretations? And they call themselves professionals who understand what audiences want? Really, TPTW? *shakes head*

Oh well, we still haz fanfic.

I like the little neener faces!

[JT-2]

I watch The Mentalist also, and yes, the woobie face is universal when you've lost a loved one. He doesn't remind me of John in any other way though because I think Jane is a bit wacko, but anyway. And I'm praying they don't hook him up with Lisbon. If you want to be reminded of John, watch Hell on Wheels from the beginning.

Pretty much everyone agrees that John lost his devil-may-care spirit when he lost her, even if they don't ship them. In fact I know that at least one other shipper group blame the writers for focusing on that loss and neglecting to show the wuv twoo wuv between John and someone else who shall remain nameless who is not Teyla.
I honestly don't think these writers have a clue what they did. Maybe they don't know all the romance tropes. Maybe they never in their lives watched a show with a will-they/won't-they arc. Maybe they don't read books or watch movies with any romantic angles. All that would have to be true for them not to have seen the symbolism in, for example, him carrying her in his arms to the infirmary or the dozens of other little things that showed their connection. But aside from all that, we've got the total lack of a similar connection with any other character.

Well okay you might say, he kissed Teyla. But consider the circumstances. That would have been like Dracula biting the neck of some random female who wandered up...outside influences. And she was obviously offended and relieved not to talk about it. Now, I'm no expert, but that signals the end of it to me. Saving her life numerous times, which the writers themselves held up as an example of him caring for her? WTF? He saved Jennifer's life and almost died, plus almost every other principal character at least once. They were just clueless about their own writing. We used to speculate that there was an editor who was secretly Sparky and was editing the show to play up that angle.

Yeah, I've run across some people of another John ship who truly think the writers were trying to portray Sparky even after Elizabeth was kicked off the show.

A comment I saw yesterday about Vegas and the field medic he loses - the person thought this was deliberately added to show how the loss of Elizabeth to our John has affected him. I had to just laugh because, while it's an absolutely true statement, was no doubt completely unintended by the writers.

[Scary Kitty]

Yeah, I've run across some people of another John ship who truly think the writers were trying to portray Sparky even after Elizabeth was kicked off the show.

A comment I saw yesterday about Vegas and the field medic he loses - the person thought this was deliberately added to show how the loss of Elizabeth to our John has affected him. I had to just laugh because, while it's an absolutely true statement, was no doubt completely unintended by the writers.

Oh well, happy accident for us.

[JT-2]

Oh well, happy accident for us.

Points down to sig.

[Sparky She-Demon]

^Agrees with sig.

[Luz]

I watch The Mentalist also, and yes, the woobie face is universal when you've lost a loved one. He doesn't remind me of John in any other way though because I think Jane is a bit wacko, but anyway. And I'm praying they don't hook him up with Lisbon. If you want to be reminded of John, watch Hell on Wheels from the beginning.

I'm talking more about the widower trope than the character archetype. In that respect John is closer to Lisbon than Jane.

Pretty much everyone agrees that John lost his devil-may-care spirit when he lost her, even if they don't ship them. In fact I know that at least one other shipper group blame the writers for focusing on that loss and neglecting to show the wuv twoo wuv between John and someone else who shall remain nameless who is not Teyla.

Buahahaaa! Who? Come on, don't leave me hanging. I'm racking my brain and I can't think of anyone else, besides maybe Ronon.

I honestly don't think these writers have a clue what they did. Maybe they don't know all the romance tropes. Maybe they never in their lives watched a show with a will-they/won't-they arc. Maybe they don't read books or watch movies with any romantic angles. All that would have to be true for them not to have seen the symbolism in, for example, him carrying her in his arms to the infirmary or the dozens of other little things that showed their connection. But aside from all that, we've got the total lack of a similar connection with any other character.

Maybe they don't realise how powerful tropes are, they're like a language we've assimilated to the point we don't do it consciously. Our brains just take the hints and form expectations in accordance to what we are being shown. And tptb can't see that, that certain scenes will provoke an emotional response. Tropes are tropes for a reason.

Well okay you might say, he kissed Teyla. But consider the circumstances. That would have been like Dracula biting the neck of some random female who wandered up...outside influences. And she was obviously offended and relieved not to talk about it. Now, I'm no expert, but that signals the end of it to me. Saving her life numerous times, which the writers themselves held up as an example of him caring for her? WTF? He saved Jennifer's life and almost died, plus almost every other principal character at least once. They were just clueless about their own writing. We used to speculate that there was an editor who was secretly Sparky and was editing the show to play up that angle.

You mean he attacked Teyla, it's always made me extremely uncomfortable when I see people using that image in signatures and icons like it's supposed to be romantic. And if tptb did this in an attempt to show us a shippy moment then no wonder they don't understand how romance tropes work. They probably tried the "aliens made them do it" but got it all wrong. First, it only works when both parts are willing participants and second, one of the characters being grossed out and scared out of her mind kind of sucks the fun out of it.

I always suspected there was someone pulling his weight to restrain the more enthusiastic sheyla shippers on that writing team. Because sometimes it seems someone was sabotaging them. TPTB would pay lip service to the pairing and then go and write sparky anyway, lol. How else do you explain that as hard as they tried to push that pairing they never went all out. Sure, there were some anvils, though I think they're mostly at the very beginning of the series. I know you've said they tried to push sheyla in seasons 4 and 5, but I don't see it, at all.

But when they had the chance, they'd finally gotten rid of their main obstacle, they could have made John the father of Teyla's baby *hands you a barf bag* and they obviously didn't care much about what fans wanted. So what stopped them? I think either there were still people being the voice of reason and fighting to protect the characters integrity or there was some serious self-sabotage and unawareness going on.

Yeah, I've run across some people of another John ship who truly think the writers were trying to portray Sparky even after Elizabeth was kicked off the show.

A comment I saw yesterday about Vegas and the field medic he loses - the person thought this was deliberately added to show how the loss of Elizabeth to our John has affected him. I had to just laugh because, while it's an absolutely true statement, was no doubt completely unintended by the writers.

That was definitely Elizabeth. It astounds me how they could write something like this and not realise where our brains are going to go. Hello, John losing the most important person in his life and being tormented by guilt. It's not a hard connection to make.

[Southern Red]

Buahahaaa! Who? Come on, don't leave me hanging. I'm racking my brain and I can't think of anyone else, besides maybe Ronon.

Not Ronon but another male.

You mean he attacked Teyla, it's always made me extremely uncomfortable when I see people using that image in signatures and icons like it's supposed to be romantic. And if tptb did this in an attempt to show us a shippy moment then no wonder they don't understand how romance tropes work. They probably tried the "aliens made them do it" but got it all wrong. First, it only works when both parts are willing participants and second, one of the characters being grossed out and scared out of her mind kind of sucks the fun out of it.

Did you ever watch the commentary for Conversion? That's exactly what they thought, and they also thought she liked it and wanted more. But then JF says something about the scene not coming out like he expected, and we never learn what he means because Marty Gero just keeps talking and talking and talking.

I always suspected there was someone pulling his weight to restrain the more enthusiastic sheyla shippers on that writing team. Because sometimes it seems someone was sabotaging them. TPTB would pay lip service to the pairing and then go and write sparky anyway, lol. How else do you explain that as hard as they tried to push that pairing they never went all out. Sure, there were some anvils, though I think they're mostly at the very beginning of the series. I know you've said they tried to push sheyla in seasons 4 and 5, but I don't see it, at all.

But when they had the chance, they'd finally gotten rid of their main obstacle, they could have made John the father of Teyla's baby *hands you a barf bag* and they obviously didn't care much about what fans wanted. So what stopped them? I think either there were still people being the voice of reason and fighting to protect the characters integrity or there was some serious self-sabotage and unawareness going on.

As I understand it, Paul Mullie nixed the John as baby daddy idea because he didn't think 2 members of the team having a secret affair was right.

And they always claimed they never wrote Sparky, not even a little bit for one single moment. Why, she's his boss. They can't...omg.

[Luz]

Not Ronon but another male.

McKay? For a moment I thought another player had shown up late in the game. McShep was a juggernaut but it amazes me that there are people who thought tptb would take it seriously.

Did you ever watch the commentary for Conversion? That's exactly what they thought, and they also thought she liked it and wanted more. But then JF says something about the scene not coming out like he expected, and we never learn what he means because Marty Gero just keeps talking and talking and talking.

EW. Figures. Of course, it's a perfect representation of how little respect they had for their female characters. If they thought she liked it then they really are blind to anything that doesn't reinforces their twisted views, it's like bizarro world with these people.

As I understand it, Paul Mullie nixed the John as baby daddy idea because he didn't think 2 members of the team having a secret affair was right.

And they always claimed they never wrote Sparky, not even a little bit for one single moment. Why, she's his boss. They can't...omg.

I'm surprised about Mullie, I always thought there was someone keeping Mallozzi under wraps but I expected it to be someone else. See, this is why that whole movie idea would have never been made, at least not the idea Mallozzi had in mind. He might have been the biggest sheyla shipper, but he wasn't the only person in the writing room. There would always be someone around trying to keep him under control.

[Southern Red]

McKay? For a moment I thought another player had shown up late in the game. McShep was a juggernaut but it amazes me that there are people who thought tptb would take it seriously.

Bingo. Didn't you realize it was meant to be?

EW. Figures. Of course, it's a perfect representation of how little respect they had for their female characters. If they thought she liked it then they really are blind to anything that doesn't reinforces their twisted views, it's like bizarro world with these people.

Gero even said he thought about his mother with that scene and wondered if she would think it was too violent. And yet, he went ahead with it the way it was done. Wow. And then there was a lot of male snickering from all of them.

I'm surprised about Mullie, I always thought there was someone keeping Mallozzi under wraps but I expected it to be someone else. See, this is why that whole movie idea would have never been made, at least not the idea Mallozzi had in mind. He might have been the biggest sheyla shipper, but he wasn't the only person in the writing room. There would always be someone around trying to keep the crazy under control.

I don't know anything about Mullie, but I know I love him for this. I don't think JM was the only crazy. Brad Wright said much the same thing at ComicCon right before S5. I guess they overlooked the part where they wrote Teyla as being pregnant with another man's child. The lack of continuity is mindboggling. And they chose to completely overlook the massive juggernaut that was the Sparky shippers.

[Eri13]

McKay? For a moment I thought another player had shown up late in the game. McShep was a juggernaut but it amazes me that there are people who thought tptb would take it seriously.


EW. Figures. Of course, it's a perfect representation of how little respect they had for their female characters. If they thought she liked it then they really are blind to anything that doesn't reinforces their twisted views, it's like bizarro world with these people.


I'm surprised about Mullie, I always thought there was someone keeping Mallozzi under wraps but I expected it to be someone else. See, this is why that whole movie idea would have never been made, at least not the idea Mallozzi had in mind. He might have been the biggest sheyla shipper, but he wasn't the only person in the writing room. There would always be someone around trying to keep him under control.

In a way, they sort of self-sabotaged. Consider Carl Binder. Someone did not feed him the official SGA Kool-Aid, or something, because while most of the writers threw in moments we consider 'Sparky', he sort of went above and beyond. See Lifeline; Ghost in the Machine.

Bingo. Didn't you realize it was meant to be?

Gero even said he thought about his mother with that scene and wondered if she would think it was too violent. And yet, he went ahead with it the way it was done. Wow. And then there was a lot of male snickering from all of them.

I am not surprised. This is the same guy who threw in the catfight in "The Eye" for what purpose again?

[Nolamom]

Just don't remind me of Lucius Lavin - Irresistible and Irresponsible - two of the biggest bombs ever

[Sparky She-Demon]

In a way, they sort of self-sabotaged. Consider Carl Binder. Someone did not feed him the official SGA Kool-Aid, or something, because while most of the writers threw in moments we consider 'Sparky', he sort of went above and beyond. See Lifeline; Ghost in the Machine.

Well I'm glad that he didn't drink the Kool-Aid in that regard.

Did *any* of the female characters get any kind of respect, in SGA that is?

[Luz]

Gero even said he thought about his mother with that scene and wondered if she would think it was too violent. And yet, he went ahead with it the way it was done. Wow. And then there was a lot of male snickering from all of them.

That's disturbing on so many levels.

I don't know anything about Mullie, but I know I love him for this. I don't think JM was the only crazy. Brad Wright said much the same thing at ComicCon right before S5. I guess they overlooked the part where they wrote Teyla as being pregnant with another man's child. The lack of continuity is mindboggling. And they chose to completely overlook the massive juggernaut that was the Sparky shippers.

I've heard things about Mullie, but now I'm wondering if maybe he was being confused with Martin Gero. I'm just glad there was a voice of logic on that group. What I hear about them wanting to push sheyla in season 5 is so strange to me because at least in the episodes I've watched I can't see anything that could possibly be construed as being shippy in the slightest. But then, as I said before, the last time I saw any sign of them trying to push that ship hard was in season 1. After that they seemed to have given up. It was only later that I found out about their plans, and I couldn't have been more confused because none of what they purportedly wanted to do was actually projected on screen.

In a way, they sort of self-sabotaged. Consider Carl Binder. Someone did not feed him the official SGA Kool-Aid, or something, because while most of the writers threw in moments we consider 'Sparky', he sort of went above and beyond. See Lifeline; Ghost in the Machine.

Poor dears, they were like the three stooges. You could tell they wanted to achieve something but they just kept tripping over each other.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I'm going to try to catch up, but I'm terrible at watching in chronological order. I keep watching random episodes here and there. But I really want to watch them in order.

Try to join us on Sunday. Quarantine is actually not too bad. Of course it doesn’t have Elizabeth. But it is one of the very few episodes from the last two seasons that is actually not too bad.

Though it's easier to watch them now because I have SGA-R to cleanse my palate. And it hasn't been so bad, I forgot how much I loved all the characters, so I try to focus on them instead of how much I miss Lizzie.

I am sure SGA-R is now making seasons 4 and 5 much more bearable, no doubt about it. I will probably watch, episodes from the last two seasons, with different eyes from now on.

They gave everyone, except Sheppard, a significant other. And this only made Sheppard's loneliness, and the void Elizabeth's absence left in his life stand out.

By doing this, they only proved that Sparky was definitely canon.

They shipped one pairing but they created a narrative that turned Elizabeth into the most significant person in Sheppard's life. To the point that her loss turned him into a shadow of himself.

Maybe i am over sensitive today, but what you wrote brought me a few tears to my eyes, and i definitely couldn't agree more with what you said.

And I look at John, without Elizabeth, and he behaves like a widower.

I already loved John before Elizabeth’s departure but the widower's behaviour, made me love him even more. He truly was able to show how much he loved/cared for Elizabeth.

Well okay you might say, he kissed Teyla. But consider the circumstances. That would have been like Dracula biting the neck of some random female who wandered up...outside influences.

When he kissed Teyla he was under the influence of the Iratus bug virus, he wasn’t himself. He didn’t realise what he was doing, he was just following his primal (animal) instincts, he was no longer himself, then. Besides i remember vaguely, i think it was Dr. Becket, who talked something about pheromones, i can’t remember exactly now what he said, but the way John behaved, towards Teyla then, was because of those pheromones and nothing more than that.

A comment I saw yesterday about Vegas and the field medic he loses - the person thought this was deliberately added to show how the loss of Elizabeth to our John has affected him. I had to just laugh because, while it's an absolutely true statement, was no doubt completely unintended by the writers.

The field medic was only there to prove that Sparky was canon. I have no doubt that everyone, shipper or not shipper, made the connection between the field medic and Elizabeth. In our reality, the only person who was lost was Elizabeth, and this to me was the recognition by the writers that Sparky was canon, no matter it was their intention to show it, or not.

[Sparky She-Demon]

But weren't John and Elizabeth under the influence of Thalen and Phebus when they kised?