Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Part 4 of "Primum Movens" is up at SGA-R!!!

*runs off to read*

Ten minutes later...

*runs back in*

ETA:

Spoiler:

OMGOMGOMGOMG

That is all.

AHAHAHAH! You think that's good? Wait'll you see Part 5! *evil grin*

[ShipperWriter]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

AHAHAHAH! You think that's good? Wait'll you see Part 5! *evil grin*

I hate/love you.

[Brie]

Wow just wow on the new part of PM, I just couldn’t stop reading it. It was amazing.

Spoiler:

I loved the beginning, it is a bit confusing at times with two Elizabeth (you sometimes have to remember two read it twice to make sure you got the right one for that scene) but after going without one Elizabeth for so long I love that there’s two of them. I did love the little John and Elizabeth moment that was there, when he gave her her clothes and when he said ‘Elizabeth’ there at the end, it was just very them and I could just picture it happening in my head and I also think that it was a step, a small step, but a step none the less for John to find his way back to being himself again, just seeing reading about him smiling and joking again, even if it’s just a little bit is great.

[Southern Red]

Heh heh heh. Looks like while I was out getting my hair dyed done, we birthed another baby at SGA-R. The excitement is building. Can't you feel it?

[Luz]

Heh heh heh. Looks like while I was out getting my hair dyed done, we birthed another baby at SGA-R. The excitement is building. Can't you feel it?

Spoiler:

asdjfhfjhs!

I love how everyone is in-character. Sometimes I get thrown off a fic because the author is too eager to skip the troubling bits and jump right into the fluff. And who can blame them? This show treated these characters like crap. So, I'm loving the pace here and the way john's issues are being dealt with.

[Southern Red]

Spoiler:

asdjfhfjhs!

I love how everyone is in-character. Sometimes I get thrown off a fic because the author is too eager to skip the troubling bits and jump right into the fluff. And who can blame them? This show treated these characters like crap. So, I'm loving the pace here and the way john's issues are being dealt with.

Thanks for that. It means a lot. We talked about how we were going to do this project for a long time and decided it had to be done right. Right by whose definition though? Because some fans of other S6 continuations might say we are way off base both in character development and what we consider canon. I guess everyone is welcome to interpret canon and character how they wish, but in our case, we held ourselves back from doing some things we wanted to do so as not to violate canon. McKeller comes to mind. And just because most of us are Sparky shippers doesn't mean we jumped in and got them together in the first chapter. That would be such a violation of canon nobody would ever have taken us seriously. If it was on screen, we were stuck with it, so we went from there. I love the way our writers have developed

Spoiler:

the Teyla/Kanaan relationship. Breaking them up would violate 2 whole seasons of canon, so we chose to make it work. We have fleshed Kanaan out and made him a full part of the expedition along with making the Athosians seem more visible and active in the lives of the Atlantis crowd. Just as we saw on the show in S1 before they all became wallpaper. We even dealt with Sheyla a bit, showing why it never would have worked in this reality.

Which brings me back to the idea of them being "in-character." I see that used a lot by people that I totally disagree with as to when someone is OOC. John is an excellent example. The way some writers see him as am emotional cripple suffering a severe case of PTSD to the extent that he is barely holding on while pining away for Teyla and/or questioning his own sanity just really puzzles me. I think it must all come down to interpretation of scenes and in a lot of cases, ignorance about the military mindset. John was not suicidal. He was just the man and the man had to run toward the bullets to save his people. Simple. Rant over for now.

[poundpuppy29]

[Sequoia Hope]

Lovely work on Part IV.

Spoiler:

I realized just how much I've missed the real Elizabeth in this part, and I definitely felt that this was her as I read these lines: “I’m not talking about these,” Elizabeth replied, yanking at the cuffs. “Why was I brought back to Atlantis? You know how dangerous my being here is to the City! I could compromise the safety of everyone on this base!” This is the Elizabeth we knew and loved. One who loved her city and people more than her own life. I also really liked how she got a bit emotional and insecure, how she was "still dressed in hospital scrubs, hugging her knees to her chest." This flawed, human side to her is what we have been lacking for two seasons. I also took note of the many allusions to other episodes in this part, including her restraints and how they were reminiscent of how she was strapped down in "The Real World" and how her first words were, "John? What's going on?", alluding to her first words when she woke up in "Adrift." It was also interesting how in contrast to her evident relief when she woke up in "The Real World" and Teyla said to her, "You're in the infirmary," she was clearly panicking and angry when she woke up here and Jennifer said to her the exact same words. This is just like a second nightmare for her, and it will be interesting to see how she will deal with it.

One question: Are either of the Elizabeth's aware that Carson's alive, albeit a copy of him? I'm not sure if this was ever mentioned. I don't think Carson was present in "Ghost in the Machine," so Franibeth probably doesn't know. But I'm kind of unclear on this.

Also, Carson and Ronon's scene was a very nice touch. It was finely written, as it showed an empathetic side to Ronon that we don't usually see, and it presented a potential moral dilemma this Carson may have faced in Atlantis that was never openly dealt with. Well done for that scene, and looking forward to Part V.

[Southern Red]

Lovely work on Part IV.

Spoiler:

I realized just how much I've missed the real Elizabeth in this part, and I definitely felt that this was her as I read these lines: “I’m not talking about these,” Elizabeth replied, yanking at the cuffs. “Why was I brought back to Atlantis? You know how dangerous my being here is to the City! I could compromise the safety of everyone on this base!” This is the Elizabeth we knew and loved. One who loved her city and people more than her own life. I also really liked how she got a bit emotional and insecure, how she was "still dressed in hospital scrubs, hugging her knees to her chest." This flawed, human side to her is what we have been lacking for two seasons. I also took note of the many allusions to other episodes in this part, including her restraints and how they were reminiscent of how she was strapped down in "The Real World" and how her first words were, "John? What's going on?", alluding to her first words when she woke up in "Adrift." It was also interesting how in contrast to her evident relief when she woke up in "The Real World" and Teyla said to her, "You're in the infirmary," she was clearly panicking and angry when she woke up here and Jennifer said to her the exact same words. This is just like a second nightmare for her, and it will be interesting to see how she will deal with it.

One question: Are either of the Elizabeth's aware that Carson's alive, albeit a copy of him? I'm not sure if this was ever mentioned. I don't think Carson was present in "Ghost in the Machine," so Franibeth probably doesn't know. But I'm kind of unclear on this.

Also, Carson and Ronon's scene was a very nice touch. It was finely written, as it showed an empathetic side to Ronon that we don't usually see, and it presented a potential moral dilemma this Carson may have faced in Atlantis that was never openly dealt with. Well done for that scene, and looking forward to Part V.

Thanks for the input. Your perceptions are very astute. As for your question

Spoiler:

about Carson. That will be answered in Part V.

[Luz]

You really do want to just give him a hug in that scene (though I think he wants a hug from his Liz right then more than anything).

My poor baby, and he ends up alone. It's the saddest thing.

Thanks for that. It means a lot. We talked about how we were going to do this project for a long time and decided it had to be done right. Right by whose definition though? Because some fans of other S6 continuations might say we are way off base both in character development and what we consider canon. I guess everyone is welcome to interpret canon and character how they wish, but in our case, we held ourselves back from doing some things we wanted to do so as not to violate canon. McKeller comes to mind. And just because most of us are Sparky shippers doesn't mean we jumped in and got them together in the first chapter. That would be such a violation of canon nobody would ever have taken us seriously. If it was on screen, we were stuck with it, so we went from there. I love the way our writers have developed

Spoiler:

the Teyla/Kanaan relationship. Breaking them up would violate 2 whole seasons of canon, so we chose to make it work. We have fleshed Kanaan out and made him a full part of the expedition along with making the Athosians seem more visible and active in the lives of the Atlantis crowd. Just as we saw on the show in S1 before they all became wallpaper. We even dealt with Sheyla a bit, showing why it never would have worked in this reality.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I've always been a bit reluctant about trying virtual seasons. I feel the standards for a virtual season and regular fic should be different. As far as I'm concerned, fic is about wish fulfilment, anything goes. And if an author wants to go straight to the smut part, it's your fic, knock yourself out.

But with a virtual season I find it easier to get into it when there is more restrain, more build-up. And a certain respect for canon events, even if you personally didn't like them. And it's so hard to find that balance between expanding on the aspects the show couldn't because of a lack of disposition or time, and keeping the feeling of the show.

Which brings me back to the idea of them being "in-character." I see that used a lot by people that I totally disagree with as to when someone is OOC. John is an excellent example. The way some writers see him as am emotional cripple suffering a severe case of PTSD to the extent that he is barely holding on while pining away for Teyla and/or questioning his own sanity just really puzzles me. I think it must all come down to interpretation of scenes and in a lot of cases, ignorance about the military mindset. John was not suicidal. He was just the man and the man had to run toward the bullets to save his people. Simple. Rant over for now.

You will never get fandom as a whole to agree with what is in character. Because we are all influenced by who our favorite characters are, our ships, our emotional triggers, so many things. So, of course someone who ships Sheppard/Teyla will have a different idea of what's in-character. That's why as a writer you can never please everyone. Not to mention, some of us love angst and hurt/comfort more than others. Some people like things to go faster, personally, I'm a sucker for slow burn. I don't write fic but if I did, my Sheppard would probably end up going insane from all the emotional torture I'd subject him to.

People will just flock to what they feel satisfies their needs. I wouldn't read a virtual season that skews J/T, for obvious reasons. Though I feel SGA Rising has done a good job so far of keeping it gen, I can see how it wouldn't please other factions.

I agree with you about Sheppard. There was a darker aspect to his character and and he did suck at talking about feeling, which might have let to him bottling things up and closing himself off. And he was a bit of a drone when it came to doing everything for the mission and the safety of his people. But I think it was borne out of a hero complex instead of a death wish.

And after everything his been through with the loss of Elizabeth, depression, self-doubt and trust issues are understandable. I'd need to watch seasons 4 and 5 to know what else he was subjected to, but reading SGA Rising has given me a general idea.

I do intent to watch those seasons but I need to prepare myself first. And since I don't drink alcohol, drinking myself into oblivion to numb the pain isn't an option.

[Scary Kitty]

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I've always been a bit reluctant about trying virtual seasons. I feel the standards for a virtual season and regular fic should be different. As far as I'm concerned, fic is about wish fulfilment, anything goes. And if an author wants to go straight to the smut part, it's your fic, knock yourself out.

But with a virtual season I find it easier to get into it when there is more restrain, more build-up. And a certain respect for canon events, even if you personally didn't like them. And it's so hard to find that balance between expanding on the aspects the show couldn't because of a lack of disposition or time, and keeping the feeling of the show.


You will never get fandom as a whole to agree with what is in character. Because we are all influenced by who our favorite characters are, our ships, our emotional triggers, so many things. So, of course someone who ships Sheppard/Teyla will have a different idea of what's in-character. That's why as a writer you can never please everyone. Not to mention, some of us love angst and hurt/comfort more than others. Some people like things to go faster, personally, I'm a sucker for slow burn. I don't write fic but if I did, my Sheppard would probably end up going insane from all the emotional torture I'd subject him to.

People will just flock to what they feel satisfies their needs. I wouldn't read a virtual season that skews J/T, for obvious reasons. Though I feel SGA Rising has done a good job so far of keeping it gen, I can see how it wouldn't please other factions.

I think I can safely speak for my fellow SGA-R teammates when I say that we totally understand this. When we first set out to bring Atlantis Rising to life, it was with the intent to create a story that retained the spirit of the TV series at its best, to appeal to a wide variety of fans. That meant a focus on the characters and their friendships and working relationships with each other, within the established setting of the TV series.

There’s a lot of things the show did that many fans didn’t like. Instead of simply ignoring what we didn’t like, breaking up canon romantic relationships or rewriting past events to suit us, we chose to work within canon to figure out how we could “fix” some of these “mistakes” in a way that still acknowledged and respected what came before. Take our decision to bring back Kate Heightmeyer by using an illicit Ancient device that tied into Earth mythology (as so much in Stargate does): it’s not a total reset, but instead, while it’s as if Kate never died to everyone else, Teyla retains the memory of the original timeline in which Kate died, as both a reminder and a warning. Now that’s creative writing!

We knew that catering to “niche” segments of the fandom would be a recipe for disaster; all you have to do is look at some of the other fanfiction out there that’s specific to one ship or fandom trope or another. Some of these ships can only exist by completely ignoring canon. We didn’t want to do that. We wanted people to be able to read these stories and then say, “I can see that happening on the show!” That kind of reaction means we succeeded in achieving our goal.

I agree with you about Sheppard. There was a darker aspect to his character and and he did suck at talking about feeling, which might have let to him bottling things up and closing himself off. And he was a bit of a drone when it came to doing everything for the mission and the safety of his people. But I think it was borne out of a hero complex instead of a death wish.

And after everything his been through with the loss of Elizabeth, depression, self-doubt and trust issues are understandable. I'd need to watch seasons 4 and 5 to know what else he was subjected to, but reading SGA Rising has given me a general idea.

I do intent to watch those seasons but I need to prepare myself first. And since I don't drink alcohol, drinking myself into oblivion to numb the pain isn't an option.

I find chocolate works, too.

[ShipperWriter]

I think I can safely speak for my fellow SGA-R teammates when I say that we totally understand this. When we first set out to bring Atlantis Rising to life, it was with the intent to create a story that retained the spirit of the TV series at its best, to appeal to a wide variety of fans. That meant a focus on the characters and their friendships and working relationships with each other, within the established setting of the TV series.

There’s a lot of things the show did that many fans didn’t like. Instead of simply ignoring what we didn’t like, breaking up canon romantic relationships or rewriting past events to suit us, we chose to work within canon to figure out how we could “fix” some of these “mistakes” in a way that still acknowledged and respected what came before. Take our decision to bring back Kate Heightmeyer by using an illicit Ancient device that tied into Earth mythology (as so much in Stargate does): it’s not a total reset, but instead, while it’s as if Kate never died to everyone else, Teyla retains the memory of the original timeline in which Kate died, as both a reminder and a warning. Now that’s creative writing!

We knew that catering to “niche” segments of the fandom would be a recipe for disaster; all you have to do is look at some of the other fanfiction out there that’s specific to one ship or fandom trope or another. Some of these ships can only exist by completely ignoring canon. We didn’t want to do that. We wanted people to be able to read these stories and then say, “I can see that happening on the show!” That kind of reaction means we succeeded in achieving our goal.

That's one of the primary reasons that I really enjoy reading SGA-R, and why it is well worth the wait.

I find chocolate works, too.

Yes. In copious amounts.

I'm reminded of a slightly OT picture:

Spoiler:

Sorry. Couldn't help it.

[ShipperWriter]

Ficlet present!!!

Again, this takes place during what could be S7 of SGA-R. Basic premise: they found Elizabeth. She got IOA'd on Earth for six months. She just came home to Atlantis.

Spoiler:

Although she was glad to be home, Elizabeth Weir didn’t want to be overwhelmed with the entire population of Atlantis welcoming her back at once. She was sure that, by now, news of her arrival had spread already.

So when Jennifer Keller had finished her examination, Elizabeth asked John to take her to her quarters. He had readily agreed and ushered her out of the infirmary.

He guided her around a familiar corridor and she was shocked, pleasantly, to find that her quarters were not a spare set of VIP quarters that had been reassigned to her.

It was her old room. Her old bed. Her old desk. Her old tapestries that she had received after a fruitful trading mission.

And her old Athosian pot, sitting on her night stand.

She turned to John, a bewildered smile on her face. “How did you--?”

He shrugged, crossing his arms as he leaned against the door frame. “Teyla cleared out your office and your quarters. Most of your stuff that you had brought from Earth was sent back to your mother. Other objects that you’d gotten here in the neighborhood were put in storage. And I never put your room back on the lodgings roster. Just didn’t seem right for anyone else to have it.”

Elizabeth nodded as she slowly paced around her room. Considering how neatly everything had been put back in its place, she assumed that Teyla had done it.

John cleared his throat. “I’ll, uh, leave you to get reacquainted.”

“Actually, John,” she said, turning around slowly, “there’s one more place I would like to go before I settle in.”

“Where?”

She smiled.

-------------

“I’ve missed this.”

They were standing on the balcony just outside the control room. Elizabeth leaned forward against the railing, and John lifted his foot to the first rung. The breeze blew across her face, and she closed her eyes, enjoying the sunshine on her skin which was a little pale for her taste.

“Yeah,” John agreed, narrowing his eyes at some storm clouds on the horizon. “Weather’s great this time of year.”

“We’re floating near the planet’s equator. When is the weather not nice?” she asked with a laugh.

He glanced sideways at her, then went back to inspecting the view. “I imagine you didn’t make it outside that much when you were on Earth.”

She shook her head. “Most of the time was spent determining if the nanites were really gone. Once they realized that there was no trace of them, I was allowed a little time out.”

“Again, not much?”

She shook her head. “Not enough. That’s for sure. So what’s this planet like?”

“Average, run-of-the-mill Pegasus planet. Mostly water. No Stargate on the mainland.”

“And none of our enemies know about it, right?”

John smirked. “Wouldn’t that be nice.”

Elizabeth smiled as she sighed. “It’s good to be back.”

John nodded and glanced her way. “It’s good to have you back,” he agreed.

She chuckled, dipping her head to the side. “Even if I don’t get my old office back.”

He tried to repress a smirk, ultimately failing. “As much as I would like for you to be the boss again, Woolsey’s been doing a really good job. The IOA’s actually been staying off our backs.”

“For once,” she muttered.

As they stood there, exchanging occasional words, and staring off into the distance, Elizabeth began to feel that John was coming back too. The person he had been ever since they found her had been a far cry from the young major that she had managed to recruit all those years ago.

Granted, she understood why. Life in this part of the galaxy was stressful.

And having reincarnations of your dead friend popping up every so often did not help matters.

But this was her. And she was home.

John spoke again, breaking the silence. “So Woolsey suggested -- and General O’Neill agreed -- that we might be able to create a position of ‘first contact specialist’, or something along those lines.”

“I thought that was Teyla’s job,” she joked wryly.

John shrugged. “Don’t get me wrong, Teyla’s great at bonding with the locals. And she’ll continue to be a part of my team. Unless she gets pregnant again.” He looked slightly worried, but before Elizabeth could say anything he continued. “The first contact specialist would probably be off world with us as well.”

Elizabeth raised her eyebrows. “So no more desk job for me? Drats. I really enjoyed only seeing anyone when something was about to go catastrophically wrong.”

John saw the humor behind her words and couldn’t help but laugh.

“You’re serious about this?” she asked, pulling away from the railing.

“Yeah.” He imitated her, drawing back as well.

“What if I say no?”

John stuffed his hands in his pockets and scoffed in amusement. “You won’t. Besides, you’re the only person we’re offering the job to.”

She nodded in a manner that conveyed touché.

“You don’t have to say yes immediately. Take some time to settle back in, and find me when you’re ready.”

Elizabeth looked up. Green eyes met hazel for the first time in what felt like years, but the trust and understanding was still there. She was glad for it; if it had permanently been removed, she didn’t think it would be possible to come home.

She nodded at him, and he began to make his way towards the sliding doors that led back into the control room.

“John?”

“Yeah?” he asked, turning back around just as the doors opened.

She paused for a moment, biting her lip. “If I say yes … will I have to carry a weapon?”

John nodded, gritting his teeth. “If you’re going off world, yeah.”

Elizabeth groaned in consternation.

“Maybe Ronon will let you borrow his stunner. That way, you can shut McKay up.” And with something that looked suspiciously like a wink, he left her on the balcony.

A smile crept along her lips as she turned back to face the ocean.

Maybe a little change was a good thing.

[ShipperWriter]

So you know what happens when the students are doing their final exams and the interpreter is sitting in the back of the room with her laptop, Microsoft Works, and GIMP?

1) Fics.

2) Sigs.

Spoiler:

God help me. *laughs maniacally*

[Eri13]

My poor baby, and he ends up alone. It's the saddest thing.



Yeah, that's one of the reasons I've always been a bit reluctant about trying virtual seasons. I feel the standards for a virtual season and regular fic should be different. As far as I'm concerned, fic is about wish fulfilment, anything goes. And if an author wants to go straight to the smut part, it's your fic, knock yourself out.

But with a virtual season I find it easier to get into it when there is more restrain, more build-up. And a certain respect for canon events, even if you personally didn't like them. And it's so hard to find that balance between expanding on the aspects the show couldn't because of a lack of disposition or time, and keeping the feeling of the show.


You will never get fandom as a whole to agree with what is in character. Because we are all influenced by who our favorite characters are, our ships, our emotional triggers, so many things. So, of course someone who ships Sheppard/Teyla will have a different idea of what's in-character. That's why as a writer you can never please everyone. Not to mention, some of us love angst and hurt/comfort more than others. Some people like things to go faster, personally, I'm a sucker for slow burn. I don't write fic but if I did, my Sheppard would probably end up going insane from all the emotional torture I'd subject him to.

People will just flock to what they feel satisfies their needs. I wouldn't read a virtual season that skews J/T, for obvious reasons. Though I feel SGA Rising has done a good job so far of keeping it gen, I can see how it wouldn't please other factions.

I agree with you about Sheppard. There was a darker aspect to his character and and he did suck at talking about feeling, which might have let to him bottling things up and closing himself off. And he was a bit of a drone when it came to doing everything for the mission and the safety of his people. But I think it was borne out of a hero complex instead of a death wish.

And after everything his been through with the loss of Elizabeth, depression, self-doubt and trust issues are understandable. I'd need to watch seasons 4 and 5 to know what else he was subjected to, but reading SGA Rising has given me a general idea.

I do intent to watch those seasons but I need to prepare myself first. And since I don't drink alcohol, drinking myself into oblivion to numb the pain isn't an option.

I think I can safely speak for my fellow SGA-R teammates when I say that we totally understand this. When we first set out to bring Atlantis Rising to life, it was with the intent to create a story that retained the spirit of the TV series at its best, to appeal to a wide variety of fans. That meant a focus on the characters and their friendships and working relationships with each other, within the established setting of the TV series.

There’s a lot of things the show did that many fans didn’t like. Instead of simply ignoring what we didn’t like, breaking up canon romantic relationships or rewriting past events to suit us, we chose to work within canon to figure out how we could “fix” some of these “mistakes” in a way that still acknowledged and respected what came before. Take our decision to bring back Kate Heightmeyer by using an illicit Ancient device that tied into Earth mythology (as so much in Stargate does): it’s not a total reset, but instead, while it’s as if Kate never died to everyone else, Teyla retains the memory of the original timeline in which Kate died, as both a reminder and a warning. Now that’s creative writing!

We knew that catering to “niche” segments of the fandom would be a recipe for disaster; all you have to do is look at some of the other fanfiction out there that’s specific to one ship or fandom trope or another. Some of these ships can only exist by completely ignoring canon. We didn’t want to do that. We wanted people to be able to read these stories and then say, “I can see that happening on the show!” That kind of reaction means we succeeded in achieving our goal.

I find chocolate works, too.

There was a lot of time (it's two years past now, but who's counting? ) spent on development of SGAR, trying to work in how canon would do it. I completely get that how someone perceives fandom would be different, especially shippers, since they tend to skew things to their purposes more than most.

Our writers agreed to go as much to the center as we could. We involved shippers of many different angles as well as non-shippers in the discussions to try and make sure we weren't missing something with our rose colored glasses. What we ended up with:

HEAVY spoilers through PM Part IV:

Spoiler:

1) Do not Enter Elizabeth: Despite (obviously) being Liz fans, she would not make an appearance until midway through the season. It was too important to us that we spend time with the other characters before slamming Elizabeth back into the story.

2) McKeller stayed: we did have some push and pull on this, but ultimately, because so much time was spent on them by the end of S5, we did not want to do the show a disservice by pulling it, even if many fans were not fans of the coupling. I think the reasons why were sort of spread out (it wasn't believable/ it took away from McShep/ Jennifer was too whiny, etc, etc) so rather than pull a Katie/Rodney storyline, we opted to try and make it more appealing by giving it a little more time and devotion. It also helps, of course, that we can see 'inside' the character's heads, which is extremely difficult in a show. By being omniscient, we get some more depth much more easily than can be conveyed onscreen.

3) Teyla needed to be shaken up and Ronon needed to feel: the terms 'wallpaper' and Teyla and Ronon seemed to coincide--despite Teyla's family development in Season 4/5, we felt like many fans wanted to see more of her. And so evolved the ostracism from the Athosians and having to relearn her place amongst her tribe. Unfortunately, trying to centralize a character when we only have 8 episodes to work with is hard, so there will be some wallpapering (I think, personally, of all the wallpapered characters I feel like we haven't had too much development from Rodney at all in SGA:R, but for some reason no one yells 'McKay wallpaper!') For Ronon his role is smaller--SGA, though they squeezed his story into a few token episodes, did actually delve into his feelings of loyalty and devotion to Sateda. Bringing 'Romelia' into the picture here, most particularly in "Adoremus" was doing what we could to give him some time. Again, as an ensemble character and only 8 episodes to work with, it's hard to really give him some good character development, but we're trying. We have a Ronon episode planned for the back half of SGA:R that I hope gets developed and written, because it has the potential to be awesome.

4) John gets a girlfriend: I think if anyone came at us and said 'y'all are shippery shippers writing shippy stuff' I'd be like 'have you MET Mayel?'

Mayel was someone that had a few people gnashing their teeth, because our team was born out of this thread. So when SR came back and said JF had mentioned he would have liked John to have had a girlfriend, though we immediately started brainstorming, not everyone was pleased. But we were determined to balance this out. I mean, this was a main directive from Joe. The message posted above our door has always read: all fanon to be left outside the room. Period. It was the reminder to us to keep our shippery hands out of SGA:R. Naturally, we didn't fight what we saw was the strong friendship between Liz&John, and for other parts of the fandom how strong that is remains open to interpretation. But we tried our very best to be middle of the road.

Anyways, given our sticky note, so enter Mayel. The opportunity to give John a love interest who was captivating, mysterious, potentially backstabbing and strong intrigued at least me to no end. And we tried as much as we could to make her a good character, not just pretty alien wallpaper. A real girlfriend. Her Genii origins, her role as a commander, her personal relationship with Ladon and her past with Kolya--all of these seemingly small details were of the absolute most importance in developing her into a character who could command John's attention.

The funny thing was, by about Box of Dreams, I think the whole staff was about as in love with Mayel as John was. I remember physically asking the question in a brainstorming/beta session 'do we have to do this?' as regarding the betrayal. She was a fun, great character and we all love her. And we're not done with her; obviously her impact on John and the rest of Atlantis is far reaching. But in series development terms, we needed John about as bitter as he could be by the time the Replicator storyline re-emerged. So we had to let her go the way of the storyline plans, but I personally was loathe to have to turn her and we did discuss whether she knew or not. We felt it would be more emotional for everyone if she was forced to choose between John and the Genii rather than just be a typical Genii. That was where, BTW, her sort of emotionally driven 'goodbye' scene came from at the end of Adoremus.

Nothing you'll do will please everyone--early into the series we heard some critiques from Wraith fans who disliked our Wraith and our take on Todd. There wasn't much we could do--TPTW wrote most of the Wraith as throwaway enemies except Todd. We embraced Todd as a semi-ally, but we weren't planning on humanizing the Wraith. So there we met with an impasse--we can't please everyone. But we've tried to be as mainstream as we can.

And for me, the thought process, and seeing how many people are paying attention to detail during the beta process--it's AMAZING. We have such dedicated staffers here. This past week, we spent a couple of hours and spanned about 12 time zones hashing out the functionality of the City's Inertial Dampeners, which involves about one or two lines of text total in the 38 page conclusion to PM Part I. (What, why are we talking about stuff like that, huh? *haha tease*). That's our devotion. We're fandom geeks, natch.

On watching 4/5--I honestly thought I wasn't going to enjoy it. I had to watch it for SGA:R. And I have never hedged on the fact that Elizabeth was my favorite character hands down, so I was NOT looking forward to watching. However, when I did watch, I can honestly say, even as a Liz fan, the back half of 4 and most of Season 5 was enjoyable. There are a few throwaway episodes, but most of the characters, especially John, maintain a darker, more muted attitude, so it feels like they've been through the ringer and they've never forgotten about it. In other words, it's not developed like a, say 'Season 3-redux-without-Elizabeth'. It's a world without Elizabeth. The levity and the casual nature of people is gone. I respected that. And it makes the appearance of Elizabeth in GITM have even more meaning once you see the episodes surrounding it and how everyone has already gone through a lot.

Personally, I really enjoyed "The Seed" "The Shrine (darn good Rodney stuff there)" "First Contact/The Lost Tribe" "Remnants" And the end of "Prodigal" has a moment that makes all the Michael stuff worth it.

I know I'm leaving out Vegas but I'm not a super die hard John fan so I thought it was pretty good for an AU...