Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[poundpuppy29]

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

Hello, if it wasn't for Rodney (and cohort Keller) to activate the nanites in Elizabeth's bloodstream they wouldn't have been in that mess in the first place... oh look, again Rodney being his brilliant self.

Exactly this. They both got the ball rolling, Keller came up with the idea and Rodney implemented it.

To quote a rather famous line from Babylon 5, "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote." Meaning, basically, that once they started, there was no stopping it.

Elizabeth agreed with the plan because - and this is my own opinion - she was desperately looking for a way out of her situation. She honestly didn't care whether she lived or died, and she was just trying to help her team as much as she could before she had to be separated from them.

Again, exactly this. Elizabeth didn't really have any other options at that point. Either she stayed locked up in the isolation room, or she went on the mission and used her new and unwanted abilities that were thrust on her without her consent to help the city. Not much of a choice, is it?

I think that's going to be a fairly short list, I'm afraid -- I'd put Rodney in number 1 spot, then John, then Elizabeth, then Carson, Keller's definitely there too. Teyla has a place there too, if we keep in mind she's capable of connecting with the Wraith network. Even Kate can be considered for the list, albeit rather low on it. She was there when they toyed with Michael's head. But really, none of them (bar perhaps John) can keep up with Rodney's lead on the list.

Agreed. They've all screwed up at one time or another, and it hasn't always ended well.

Precisely, and that's what Inquisition was all about.

Indeed. Rodney and the rest of Team Shep do get a sort of comeuppance on behalf of Atlantis. In some respects, I kind of wish things had gone a little further with that episode... might have made for an interesting season finale/premiere two-parter if the Coalition had gone ahead with dumping Team Shep on that isolated planet and then Atlantis had to find them.

[ShipperWriter]

It was as much Rodney’s fault as it was Elizabeth’s or John’s. They were taking a chance and it ended up badly. Maybe no one should be blamed for what happened, or maybe they should all be. This was just another risky mission as any other one, but this time things went the wrong way, and Elizabeth and those millions of people in Pegasus who died, paid the price.

A scripture from the Bible comes to mind. Something about time and chance and TPTW happen to them all ...

Slightly OT:

Spoiler:

I was looking up various translations of that scripture, which is Ecclesiastes 9:11. One translation says "We all have our share of bad luck." *shrugs* Just thought the irony was applicable to this discussion.

I sometimes wonder if that wouldn’t have been better, it would have caused less pain and suffering, because then they would know she was dead with no doubts. This way we don’t know what happened to her.

Certain death? Perhaps.

Spoiler:

God knows it would open up the possibilities for fanfic writers to resurrect her without all the complicated Replibabble.

Although it would really screw over the plot line for "Adrift" and "Lifeline". Having her as a vegetable would've been just as bad as her being "lost", in my opinion. I'm sure she probably had a DNR or a living will that John was most likely aware of, but in any case, seeing her lying there and being completely unable to do anything to help would have been as bad as watching her die. Worse, really.

Why not? It would be interesting to compare how many mistakes were made and by whom.

Elizabeth as the leader has to be blamed for most things. She is responsible for the actions of the people of the expedition.

And this is how the IOA is born.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

A scripture from the Bible comes to mind. Something about time and chance and TPTW happen to them all ...

Slightly OT:

Spoiler:

I was looking up various translations of that scripture, which is Ecclesiastes 9:11. One translation says "We all have our share of bad luck." *shrugs* Just thought the irony was applicable to this discussion.

This sentence should really apply to this situation, because all of them shared the bad luck of the situation, some more than others, but all of them had to deal with the consequences, physically or mentally.

Certain death? Perhaps.

Spoiler:

God knows it would open up the possibilities for fanfic writers to resurrect her without all the complicated Replibabble.

Although it would really screw over the plot line for "Adrift" and "Lifeline". Having her as a vegetable would've been just as bad as her being "lost", in my opinion. I'm sure she probably had a DNR or a living will that John was most likely aware of, but in any case, seeing her lying there and being completely unable to do anything to help would have been as bad as watching her die. Worse, really.

Oh yeah, if they would have killed her immediately it would have ruined all the plot of the first episodes of Season 4. But at least it wouldn’t make us so angry. I mean and then having the hope that she might return when “This mortal coil” was announced and then having her die once again. It wasn’t fair for us the fans.

And this is how the IOA is born.

Gosh, i did sound like the IOA, didn’t I? Shame on me!!!!

[Sparky She-Demon]

And I am wondering whether I should watch those first few episodes of season four...

[Falcon Horus]

And I am wondering whether I should watch those first few episodes of season four...

If you wanna call yourself an Atlantis fan... yes you do.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

do not get me started on the IOA. i have a few bones to pick with those buttheads.

[Southern Red]

This sentence should really apply to this situation, because all of them shared the bad luck of the situation, some more than others, but all of them had to deal with the consequences, physically or mentally.



Oh yeah, if they would have killed her immediately it would have ruined all the plot of the first episodes of Season 4. But at least it wouldn’t make us so angry. I mean and then having the hope that she might return when “This mortal coil” was announced and then having her die once again. It wasn’t fair for us the fans.



Gosh, i did sound like the IOA, didn’t I? Shame on me!!!!

You thought there was a possibility she might return after TMC? Brad Wright made it pretty clear before S4 even began that she would be back only for a limited number of episodes. I wonder who didn't get that word out where you are from. I suspect they were trying to keep the fans hopes up. In fact, BW slipped up and announced that she was being reduced to "recurring" before he was supposed to and started a firestorm of monumental proportions around here. We were devastated, and then it turned out even that was a lie because they said she was going to be in several episodes. The few seconds she was in BAMSR evidently counted as a whole episode.

[JT-2]

*Curses TPTW for all eternity*

[Scary Kitty]

*Curses TPTW for all eternity*

Hmm, I wonder if I should make some voodoo dolls...

[Sparky She-Demon]

Hmm, I wonder if I should make some voodoo dolls...

That would be fun to see.

[Brie]

Sometimes you miss a lot when you’re away and today were one of those days with tons of new and interesting posts.

The consequences of their actions is an interesting topic and one of the things that Torri have brought up at several cons as a big reason why Sci-Fi is so interesting to do, because you can explore different aspects of things without pissing people off (well, other than the usual character based plots that is), and I know it’s not exactly what she meant but it defiantly falls under it.
I do agree that all characters have done thing and made decisions that have backfired, some big time, but I must say that I do admire their will to try and make it right.

I agree with those who have said that they shouldn’t have changed the credits until ‘Reunion’.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

And I am wondering whether I should watch those first few episodes of season four...

I think a true Atlantis fan should see all the episodes at least once. Adrift/Lifeline were certainly the most emotionally exhausting. They were extremely sad, and I hate the way Elizabeth's departure was handled, but you should try and see them at least once.

You thought there was a possibility she might return after TMC? Brad Wright made it pretty clear before S4 even began that she would be back only for a limited number of episodes. I wonder who didn't get that word out where you are from. I suspect they were trying to keep the fans hopes up. In fact, BW slipped up and announced that she was being reduced to "recurring" before he was supposed to and started a firestorm of monumental proportions around here. We were devastated, and then it turned out even that was a lie because they said she was going to be in several episodes. The few seconds she was in BAMSR evidently counted as a whole episode.

In the beginning yes, when I first watched the episode I really thought their plan was to bring her back, but then I realised how wrong I was. I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes, I only watched Atlantis (all the episodes) for the first time around October 2011 and August 2012, I had no clue of what had happened behind the scenes, I just followed the episodes and hoped for the best. Only when I finished watching all the episodes I decided to search for all the info I could get about Stargate Atlantis, I didn’t dare to do that before because I absolutely hate spoilers. We don’t get that kind of news here. We just have the shows on TV and if we want to know more about them, we usually have to search for ourselves, and besides when the show first started to be showed here, season 1, the show had already been cancelled there.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I'll have to get season four then. I'm only in the middle of season three.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I'll have to get season four then. I'm only in the middle of season three.

Yes, you do that. In which episode of season 3 are you now?