Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Raelis]

There's one little part of your post that I want to address. I think the whole reason we have different ships and different fan groups is that some things are obvious to some of us in totally different ways. It used to drive me bananas when someone pointed out a moment that was just so obviously shippy, but I just could not for the life of me see why. Now I realize we all see what we want to see to a certain extent, and I've learned to mostly handwave the way out in left field arguments for or against something that everyone is supposed to see.

A good example is that group in earlier years that thought Elizabeth was a bad leader and totally blamed her for every bad decision ever made. Michael, for example, which meant they had to completely overlook the time when Carson took full responsibility, and the times when John agreed with her and said so. Obvious to them, misperception to me. Logic has no place in fandom. If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times.

True, I've noticed that as well. It amazes me sometimes how fans can look at one and the same thing but see something completely different. We all bring our own experiences and values into our interpretation of fiction, so yeah, sometimes it's baffling, sometimes it's awesome.

However, I can't understand writers who don't try to be at least a little objective. They can hate Elizaveth (or Rodney, or Keller, or whoever) all they want, but they shouldn't project it onto the other characters.

[Brie]

I only read Sparky fics, it helps me keep my fanfom sanity.

Spoiler:

To be honest, I thought John was not much better in Reunion, choosing that particular time to start joking about Rodney's crush on Carter and playing stupid pranks on him. It was inappropriate, it made both characters look bad for the sake of cheap laughs, and I mentally edited this scene out of my personal canon. But Rodney definitely felt guilt and grief, as his scenes with John and Radek in Seer and This Mortail Coil demonstrate.

I do the same thing and I really dislike the whole scene, it was just wrong. Didn’t someone say that it had been like three month since ‘Lifeline’ as an excuse to their behavior but it’s also sad that TPTB, in that case, felt that you will have forgotten someone after only three month, a big no to that scene.

Captions anyone?

Spoiler:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...0716_manip.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...720_manip2.jpg

yeah, I'm not happy with that manip. Will have to re-do it.

Oh, I assure you, it's her face!
original - 1
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5..._0720-crop.jpg
original - 2
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...9742-sized.jpg

I liked the idea of the manip, I thin k it was just because in the original picture she was looking down and in the picture of her face you used she’s looking up so that’s why.

better manip - with just slight adjustments
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...720_manip2.jpg

Love it.

[Falcon Horus]

I think doing the fic lists are a great idea.

They annoy(d) the living daylights out of me.
The S/J-community claimed there was a demand for it. A pairing that can be found just about on every webpage that has a fanfiction section and is about one mouse click away doesn't need extra attention. The little ones do. Yes, it's peeve, okay!

And it pushes the Atlantis Rising off the main page...

[Raelis]

They annoy(d) the living daylights out of me.
The S/J-community claimed there was a demand for it. A pairing that can be found just about on every webpage that has a fanfiction section and is about one mouse click away doesn't need extra attention. The little ones do. Yes, it's peeve, okay!

And it pushes the Atlantis Rising off the main page...

But you could do a rare pairings list! Give them some spotlight!

I think fic lists are a good idea, no matter how popular the pairng is, because they're absolutely necessary for fandom newbies. Especially lists that are categorized by genre or season/episode. Makes searching for fic so much easier and more pleasant. And finding fic lists here, on the most prominent Stargate site, would be much easier than searching the entire interwebs for fic recs.

And yeah, S/J shippers seem to be laboring under the delusion that their pairing is the most popular in the Stargate fandom... I say let's show them! (I'm actually a bit of a S/J shipper too, but SGA is my main love.) Actually, SGA in general seems to be in dire need of some spotlight. SG-1 seem fans to be more active overall.


As for Atlantis: Rising, it must be recced as well. Maybe we should do a post-series list...

[Falcon Horus]

But you could do a rare pairings list! Give them some spotlight!

Why do I bother with making a list that I'm pretty sure won't get any attention, or RAREly will get attention. I noticed you posted in the Teyla and Kate thread as well. While your idea is noble, have you noticed the last posts in those threads... nobody cares anymore. Same goes for rare pairings.

Yes, I'm a pessimist and knowing how little attention secondary pairings and characters get makes me angry and jealous all at once.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I've read a gen fic once that contained such thinly veiled Elizabeth hatred I wanted to scream.

I guess people have the right of not liking Elizabeth, but such feelings should not pass to fics. There are ways of showing our preferences for a certain character and our disliking for another character but that can be made in a more subtle way.

I'm not objecting to any ship or slash in it as there wasn't any (and hey, everyone is absolutely free to ship or slash whatever they want, just as we are)

I agree. I just would not read their fics. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be posted.

It was the general characterizations of the team's relationships with Elizabeth that were all wrong.

And that was what bothered me on that Rodney centric fic that I red.

The comment was made how they all hate dealing with the "administrative blather" with Elizabeth and then Teyla didn't want to have to talk to Elizabeth. That's not the relationships that I remember on screen.

On screen we all saw that everyone had a good relationship with Elizabeth, in spite of her being the boss.

I welcome any opportunity to see another character's point of view,

I would welcome that too if the other characters were well characterized. It would have been interesting to see Rodney like he was on this fic as long as they would also do John right, which in my opinion they didn’t.

I think that the friendships between Rodney and Teyla and Rodney and Ronon were not very well developed on the show

You are right they were not. And I wouldn’t mind reading a fic in which they would focus that, but they would have to be true to the characters.

In a way, seeing Elizabeth's departure from other characters' point of view (not just John's) is the same thing.

I agree. But they would have to work John better; in this fic I believe they didn’t.

And yeah, S/J shippers seem to be laboring under the delusion that their pairing is the most popular in the Stargate fandom... I say let's show them! (I'm actually a bit of a S/J shipper too, but SGA is my main love.)

As for Atlantis: Rising, it must be recced as well. Maybe we should do a post-series list...

Yeah, let’s show them how our pairing can also be as popular as theirs!!!!!

There will be a place for Atlantis Rising on the lists. There will have to be!!!

[Raelis]

Why do I bother with making a list that I'm pretty sure won't get any attention, or RAREly will get attention. I noticed you posted in the Teyla and Kate thread as well. While your idea is noble, have you noticed the last posts in those threads... nobody cares anymore. Same goes for rare pairings.

Yes, I'm a pessimist and knowing how little attention secondary pairings and characters get makes me angry and jealous all at once.

I know how you feel. I'm lucky in the way that I'm very much mainstream in Stargate fandom when it comes to pairings and characters. But in some of my other fandoms I'm not so lucky. In one of my current fandoms there's a pairing that I deeply dislike, yet it is so prominent that it's hard to find anything else. In my other fandom my pairing of choice used to be extremely popular, but it isn't anymore, and maybe three or four people still write for it (and none of them really appeals to me as a writer). So yeah, I get where you're coming from. Still, I think making a list for rare pairings wouldn't hurt, and some people who come to this site may be fans of those rare pairings/minor characters. And they will be happy that someone thought of them and made them a rec list. It will be linked to in the Fanfic Masterist too. I may be able to tackle this myself when I have some time. I just need to fugure out now to organize it.

[Southern Red]

They annoy(d) the living daylights out of me.
The S/J-community claimed there was a demand for it. A pairing that can be found just about on every webpage that has a fanfiction section and is about one mouse click away doesn't need extra attention. The little ones do. Yes, it's peeve, okay!

And it pushes the Atlantis Rising off the main page...

We have needed a comprehensive list of SGA fics that is organized by subjects, ships, etc. Right now if you want to read a first kiss Sparky fic or a the team gets captured by aliens fic, you have to search all around. If the lists are well done, and if there is lots of participation, it will be good.

SGA-R will fit in the general team category, for sure. At least for now. BTW, I just read a bit of a future episode that will knock your socks off.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

SGA-R will fit in the general team category, for sure. At least for now. BTW, I just read a bit of a future episode that will knock your socks off.

And when will it be our turn to read it as well? Any preview on when the next episode will be posted?

[Falcon Horus]

Fine... you win... *grumble* ... you people and your rational thoughts...

I'll see how I can contribute to these lists... it's not like I have to go to work any time soon anyway.

[Raelis]

We have needed a comprehensive list of SGA fics that is organized by subjects, ships, etc. Right now if you want to read a first kiss Sparky fic or a the team gets captured by aliens fic, you have to search all around. If the lists are well done, and if there is lots of participation, it will be good.

Yes, THIS. So much this. I'm very eager to contribute in any way I can.

BTW, I just read a bit of a future episode that will knock your socks off.

Damn it! Curse my lack of patience!

Fine... you win... *grumble* ... you people and your rational thoughts...

I'll see how I can contribute to these lists... it's not like I have to go to work any time soon anyway.

[Southern Red]

And when will it be our turn to read it as well? Any preview on when the next episode will be posted?

It's cruel to tease, I know, but this is just so darn good I can't stand it. And sadly it will probably be months before it's ready. This was just part of an unfinished first draft. The next episode has stalled, but we are planning to get it going ASAP.

[Brie]

I really do love the idea of a place where you can put all fics together (and I guess I’m thinking Sparky fics for me anyway) in one place so that it’s easier to find.
There are just so many sites and places where you can find fics that it can get pretty confusing, especially I’ve noticed with some fics that are posted on different sites that might be only half-way through on one site but completed on another one so it’s a good way to keep up and find fics you might have missed otherwise.

One of the most awkward fics I’ve read was one where it said that it was a John/Elizabeth fic and the summary did say something like “John mourns Elizabeth” and while you knew it would be sad I didn’t expect at all that the author only used John mourning Elizabeth to get Sheyla together, it just made me angry and had I known that it would be like that then I wouldn’t have read it and based on the comment everyone felt the same way.

[america126]

hi all, i'm back.

i just got into another book series, the shatter me trilogy by tahereh mafi. it is awesome
and very well-written
. i agree with what everyone has said here about Elizabeth and John and Rodney.

[poundpuppy29]