Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gateraid]

Definitely. Just imagine if they had brought her back and then sent her to Earth to "recuperate" or whatever. We would have had to wait and speculate if she would be back. They might have included her for a bit on any Earth-based ep, and considering where we know they were going eventually with ship, we would have had to watch her be all happy for John when they hooked him up with someone else. I'll take just what we got, thank you very much.

I think Mallozzi actually did say once or twice that that was the plan: to rescue her, then send her back to Earth to recover, with the implication of future appearances as needed. But since certain other plans for ship were torpedoed by real life events, well...

Not that it really matters much any more. And you're right, what we ended up with suits me just fine. Gimme a plothole the size of Swiss cheese, I'll fly a 747 through it.

Whilst I agree with you both, AFAIR at the time, didn't they say they had always (with a very loose definition of always - I don't think it would have been their plan back in s1, or even s3 for that matter) planned on bring Atlantis back to Earth and having s6 set there? So in that context at least, having guest characters pop in would be relatively easy.

Of course that would also mean they would have needed to take the Deadalus back to PG to mount a rescue. Very unlikely indeed.

A few of us (including Lythisrose) were discussing this on one of the general threads... about having a season 6 or 7. While I'd love to dream that they would have brought back Torri in a good way, and the show would have been good.... I just can't believe it would have happened. I think if the show had gone on, they would have brought over Daniel and the show would have been all about Daniel, Rodney, and Jennifer. Blech. Ronon might have left the show. I'm thinking they would have sidelined John even more than they were already.

So yeah, I'm also glad it stopped where it did.

This scenario is much more likely, and McKackson would have flourished

And let me say that I really do like Rodney's character. And I liked Daniel in SG-1. But the two of them together in those mid season 5 episodes...... OMG I wanted to smack them both very, very hard.

Agreed. Rodney seemed almost OOC in that ep to me. Still him, but a little odd. Kinda like his appearance on SGU.

Me too, especially when they made fun of John.

Yes John, the lead, who saved the day more than once in those eps

There were different rivalries at different times, but the most intense ones never stopped being intense. They were just bound by rules - GW rules - or take it elsewhere.



*snort*



What she said. Me and Mallozzi will never be friends again, no matter what he says. He provoked the Lemming big time, and the Lemming bit back.
And being featured on his blog was rather interesting I might add... had to share that occasion with g.o.d but hey I couldn't help that.



Yeah, and that too.

That blog *shakes head* should never have been allowed. I'm surprised that given that he was discussing show content - not in a harmless "here's a cool pic of me at work" way, but actual production information - he was allowed to do it at all, let alone do it in a way that clearly provoked fans.

[Scary Kitty]

Whilst I agree with you both, AFAIR at the time, didn't they say they had always (with a very loose definition of always - I don't think it would have been their plan back in s1, or even s3 for that matter) planned on bring Atlantis back to Earth and having s6 set there? So in that context at least, having guest characters pop in would be relatively easy.

Of course that would also mean they would have needed to take the Deadalus back to PG to mount a rescue. Very unlikely indeed.

I don't recall ever hearing that. In fact, I seem to recall Mallozzi saying the plan for the "Stargate: Extinction" movie (which would otherwise have been the Season 6 opener if there had been a Season 6) was that Atlantis would have to go back to Pegasus because of some sort of failsafe the Ancients left behind, that triggered the city's self-destruct because the city had been out of Pegasus too long; McKay & Co. couldn't shut it off, so back they all go. Or something like that.

That blog *shakes head* should never have been allowed. I'm surprised that given that he was discussing show content - not in a harmless "here's a cool pic of me at work" way, but actual production information - he was allowed to do it at all, let alone do it in a way that clearly provoked fans.

I can only speculate that the execs at MGM either didn't know, or didn't care. *shrugs*

[JT-2]

This scenario is much more likely, and McKackson would have flourished

I wonder if it would have outgrown McShep? After all, the Daniel/Jack slash group is pretty huge in SG-1 land.

Agreed. Rodney seemed almost OOC in that ep to me. Still him, but a little odd. Kinda like his appearance on SGU.

Rodney's characterization seemed to fluctuate quite drastically according to who was writing him. But that's JMHO, of course. To me his highest character fail moments were 1) Being so gleeful about taking Elizabeth's job in Reunion when he was quite a bit responsible for losing Elizabeth in the first place, and 2) Being afraid of whales in Doppelganger when he has one for a pet in Echoes.

I don't recall ever hearing that. In fact, I seem to recall Mallozzi saying the plan for the "Stargate: Extinction" movie (which would otherwise have been the Season 6 opener if there had been a Season 6) was that Atlantis would have to go back to Pegasus because of some sort of failsafe the Ancients left behind, that triggered the city's self-destruct because the city had been out of Pegasus too long; McKay & Co. couldn't shut it off, so back they all go. Or something like that.

Yeah, that's what I remember. It sounded bogus to me, honestly.

And it also sounded like a lot of Sam and Rodney technobabble. Blah.

[Southern Red]

I wonder if it would have outgrown McShep? After all, the Daniel/Jack slash group is pretty huge in SG-1 land.




Rodney's characterization seemed to fluctuate quite drastically according to who was writing him. But that's JMHO, of course. To me his highest character fail moments were 1) Being so gleeful about taking Elizabeth's job in Reunion when he was quite a bit responsible for losing Elizabeth in the first place, and 2) Being afraid of whales in Doppelganger when he has one for a pet in Echoes.

I always thought this too, and considering how in love with the character the writers were, I doubt they even realized it. They just thought we would love him as much as they did no matter how they wrote him. Just like they thought we had to be in awe of the wonderful Keller in S4-5. They never did get fandom and seemed surprised at times at our reactions. I also never bought into the idea that they came to GW and read our opinions. Maybe selectively. Because if they had considered the wishes of the majority, things would have been vastly different. They remind me of politicians.

[Scary Kitty]

Yeah, that's what I remember. It sounded bogus to me, honestly.

And it also sounded like a lot of Sam and Rodney technobabble. Blah.

Bogus, indeed. I suppose they were going to try to explain why no one ever found the failsafe before then because, "hey, the Ancient database is so big and there are so many hidden and ATA-dependent systems in Atlantis, there's no way an expedition of only 400 people could ever find them all, ahahahah!" Or something equally silly.

Rodney's characterization seemed to fluctuate quite drastically according to who was writing him. But that's JMHO, of course. To me his highest character fail moments were 1) Being so gleeful about taking Elizabeth's job in Reunion when he was quite a bit responsible for losing Elizabeth in the first place, and 2) Being afraid of whales in Doppelganger when he has one for a pet in Echoes.

Reunion shouldn't be a surprise, it was written by Mallozzi and Mullie, after all. Can't explain Doppelganger; that was written by Robert Cooper, who doesn't strike me as being so sloppy. But then, we all have bad days. Or maybe he was just annoyed at Rodney that week.

I always thought this too, and considering how in love with the character the writers were, I doubt they even realized it. They just thought we would love him as much as they did no matter how they wrote him. Just like they thought we had to be in awe of the wonderful Keller in S4-5. They never did get fandom and seemed surprised at times at our reactions. I also never bought into the idea that they came to GW and read our opinions. Maybe selectively. Because if they had considered the wishes of the majority, things would have been vastly different. They remind me of politicians.

[Nolamom]

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w254/poundpuppy29/Sparky/JEDuets4.jpg

Played around with that pic a bit - different version

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I don't recall ever hearing that. In fact, I seem to recall Mallozzi saying the plan for the "Stargate: Extinction" movie (which would otherwise have been the Season 6 opener if there had been a Season 6) was that Atlantis would have to go back to Pegasus because of some sort of failsafe the Ancients left behind, that triggered the city's self-destruct because the city had been out of Pegasus too long; McKay & Co. couldn't shut it off, so back they all go. Or something like that.

I didn’t get this one, i mean wasn’t Atlantis originally from Earth? Why would the Ancients build a self destruct if Atlantis would be for too long away from the Pegasus Galaxy? It doesn’t make any sense to me.

[Southern Red]

Bogus, indeed. I suppose they were going to try to explain why no one ever found the failsafe before then because, "hey, the Ancient database is so big and there are so many hidden and ATA-dependent systems in Atlantis, there's no way an expedition of only 400 people could ever find them all, ahahahah!" Or something equally silly.



Reunion shouldn't be a surprise, it was written by Mallozzi and Mullie, after all. Can't explain Doppelganger; that was written by Robert Cooper, who doesn't strike me as being so sloppy. But then, we all have bad days. Or maybe he was just annoyed at Rodney that week.

Maybe it was RCC's relative distance from the show at this point. He probably had never watched Echoes. None of them seemed to want to go back and review their finished products.

Played around with that pic a bit - different version

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...Duets4-alt.jpg

I love the look on both their faces there. He is looking at old!Elizabeth the same way he looks at Elizabeth, so caring. And she is looking at him like she notices it and is wondering if he'll still be looking at her that way when she's the old lady's age. That pic tells a whole story.

I didn’t get this one, i mean wasn’t Atlantis originally from Earth? Why would the Ancients build a self destruct if Atlantis would be for too long away from the Pegasus Galaxy? It doesn’t make any sense to me.

A lot of things they did made no sense to any of us. I'm sure it would have continued on into S6.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday!

Played around with that pic a bit - different version

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...Duets4-alt.jpg

Awww, so sweet!

I didn’t get this one, i mean wasn’t Atlantis originally from Earth? Why would the Ancients build a self destruct if Atlantis would be for too long away from the Pegasus Galaxy? It doesn’t make any sense to me.

I can only guess it might have been a failsafe in case the Wraith ever got into Atlantis and flew it out of Pegasus themselves in search of other "feeding grounds."

Maybe it was RCC's relative distance from the show at this point. He probably had never watched Echoes. None of them seemed to want to go back and review their finished products.

*nods* That makes a lot of sense.

A lot of things they did made no sense to any of us. I'm sure it would have continued on into S6.

Indeed. Thankfully for us the insanity stopped when it did.

[Brie]

In case anyone is interested, I stumbled across this poll on GateWorld a while ago. It's called, "What is your favorite Het pairing on Atlantis?"

That was fun to read, it looks like it was mostly Sparky and Spanky fans which made ‘Echoes’ such a fun episode.

Some of you might not care to go to JMallozz's blog but he's doing a review of the episodes (he doesn't really go into much depth about them though). Here is what he posted about Ghost in The Machine:

GHOST IN THE MACHINE (505)
Another one of Carl Binder’s infernal “ghost” episodes! Have to hand it to him though. He was damn good at them.

This one was bittersweet for a host of reasons, the chiefest, of course, being the fact that it marked the final appearance of Elizabeth Weir (in new replicator form, mind you). The original ending was a little more open-ended but, once were unable to secure Torri for a return appearance, it was decided to rewrite the script and offer closure to that particular storyline. I often like to think that, if things had turned out differently – IF the show had been picked up for a sixth season and IF Torri had been amenable to a return appearance – we could have found a way to re-introduce the real Weir to the Stargate universe. In my mind, Oberoth’s claim to have killed the real Elizabeth was an obvious lie. Why dispose of such a valuable asset, someone with such intimate knowledge of Atlantis and the Stargate program? It’s more probable that Oberoth kept Elizabeth in stasis at a secret location – only to perish with that knowledge.

Somewhere out there in the Pegasus Galaxy, Elizabeth Weir is waiting to be rescued!

Thanks for bringing that over, it is great to hear that Elizabeth is still alive out there somewhere but I do agree with what everyone have said, that it’s easy to say so now and it did feel a bit as if he was in a way blaming Torri which sucks. And I do get why she didn’t feel like returning, I mean she had to leave the show and then it was as if they just assumed that she would be able to come back at that specific time, and especially for the way that the episode was written because while I love Carl’s work I can imagine as an actor that you would have wanted to go all out or not do it at all. Though I think Torri mentioned that she wanted to give Elizabeth some closure if she were to come back (don’t know if that meant that she thought that Elizabeth should die or what she meant) but if she thought about Elizabeth dying then for the future of Sparky I’m not totally against this since it at least makes it possible to imagine that she’s still there. In Sci-Fi though everything is possible and I don’t think that even if Elizabeth would have died that the fans would stop finding ways to bring her back.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I can only guess it might have been a failsafe in case the Wraith ever got into Atlantis and flew it out of Pegasus themselves in search of other "feeding grounds."

Oh, I had never thought about it that way, but you are right, it would actually be a clever way to prevent the Wraith from travel outside the Pegasus Galaxy if they would ever have Atlantis under their control.

Thanks for bringing that over, it is great to hear that Elizabeth is still alive out there somewhere but I do agree with what everyone have said, that it’s easy to say so now and it did feel a bit as if he was in a way blaming Torri which sucks. And I do get why she didn’t feel like returning, I mean she had to leave the show and then it was as if they just assumed that she would be able to come back at that specific time, and especially for the way that the episode was written because while I love Carl’s work I can imagine as an actor that you would have wanted to go all out or not do it at all. Though I think Torri mentioned that she wanted to give Elizabeth some closure if she were to come back (don’t know if that meant that she thought that Elizabeth should die or what she meant) but if she thought about Elizabeth dying then for the future of Sparky I’m not totally against this since it at least makes it possible to imagine that she’s still there. In Sci-Fi though everything is possible and I don’t think that even if Elizabeth would have died that the fans would stop finding ways to bring her back.

Yeah, I agree, even if they would have really “killed” Elizabeth in the show, fans would have found ways to bring her back, nothing is impossible in the sci-fi world, she could always ascend (and descend ) and return to Atlantis!!

[JT-2]

I always thought this too, and considering how in love with the character the writers were, I doubt they even realized it. They just thought we would love him as much as they did no matter how they wrote him. Just like they thought we had to be in awe of the wonderful Keller in S4-5. They never did get fandom and seemed surprised at times at our reactions. I also never bought into the idea that they came to GW and read our opinions. Maybe selectively. Because if they had considered the wishes of the majority, things would have been vastly different. They remind me of politicians.

Yup. Getting completely off topic so I'll put this in spoilers.

Spoiler:

If they'd really read GW then they might have understood that the problem people had with Keller wasn't just anger that Carson was killed. I know it was for some people. It wasn't for me. I liked Carson, but I could have gone along with another medical person in his place. And Keller started off fine. Bland, but fine. But then the characterization started to fluctuate wildly, and the deer in the headlights look became obnoxious. Then the dreaded triangle, and Keller became the leading lady.

But to TPTW, any criticism of her was simply due to anger over Carson.

Played around with that pic a bit - different version

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...Duets4-alt.jpg

Pretty!!

Maybe it was RCC's relative distance from the show at this point. He probably had never watched Echoes. None of them seemed to want to go back and review their finished products.

That was always my impression, as well. Still, shouldn't someone else - say Binder - have told him about Echoes? It makes me think the writing/production staff was completely dysfunctional.

Yeah, I agree, even if they would have really “killed” Elizabeth in the show, fans would have found ways to bring her back, nothing is impossible in the sci-fi world, she could always ascend (and descend ) and return to Atlantis!!

I love stories where Elizabeth has ascended!! I can imagine it happening after GitM. Janus could have helped her.

[Southern Red]

Yup. Getting completely off topic so I'll put this in spoilers.

Spoiler:

If they'd really read GW then they might have understood that the problem people had with Keller wasn't just anger that Carson was killed. I know it was for some people. It wasn't for me. I liked Carson, but I could have gone along with another medical person in his place. And Keller started off fine. Bland, but fine. But then the characterization started to fluctuate wildly, and the deer in the headlights look became obnoxious. Then the dreaded triangle, and Keller became the leading lady.

But to TPTW, any criticism of her was simply due to anger over Carson.

ITA, and they thought we didn't watch SGU out of some sort of spite for the cancellation of SGA. That was just insulting.

That was always my impression, as well. Still, shouldn't someone else - say Binder - have told him about Echoes? It makes me think the writing/production staff was completely dysfunctional.

I realized that when I learned that they didn't have a plan after S1 and just sort of winged it from then on. The right hand never knew what the left hand was doing.

I love stories where Elizabeth has ascended!! I can imagine it happening after GitM. Janus could have helped her.

Isn't that what happens to her in the Legacy books? But yeah, I can see Janus being involved, and of course she would appear to John first. Naked.

[JT-2]

ITA, and they thought we didn't watch SGU out of some sort of spite for the cancellation of SGA. That was just insulting.

Totally. And some fans still think that's why SGU failed. There was one of those "confessions" on Tumblr a little while back. Some people responded with criticism to that one.

And heck, I still haven't watched 95% of SG-1. So I'm obviously not one for brand loyalty.

I realized that when I learned that they didn't have a plan after S1 and just sort of winged it from then on. The right hand never knew what the left hand was doing.

That's just so damn pathetic. I've never heard another show's producers say stuff as stupid as these do sometimes. Or mouth off to fans like Mallozzi did in his blog. Lemmings unite!

Isn't that what happens to her in the Legacy books? But yeah, I can see Janus being involved, and of course she would appear to John first. Naked.

Yeah, I think so. I'm sure she was being a cold ***** beforehand though.

But heck to the yes. Naked in John's bedroom. Naturally. Janus would be a little jealous but he would want Lizzeh to be happy and all. Cause he's a good guy.

[drewandian]

*got distracted by talk of nakedness*

*ahem* sorry....popping in to say hi!

I wish I had something sparky and thought provoking to say but I saw Les Mis tonight

Spoiler:

and am still flaily inside over Anne Hathaway and can't form many coherent thoughts....