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    Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
    I saw that and was very much shocked. Love that show to infinity. I'm glad I wasn't spoiled though.
    When it happened it was so sad that I cried, and I know that sounds silly, but I did.

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      Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
      As someone who originally watched the first two and a half years of SGA without being connected to the fandom and thus not having any idea of what TPTW were saying about their plans for the characters, etc., I have to side with SR Jr. I totally thought the other pair was a red herring, and thought that John/Elizabeth would end up as one of those classic sci-fi pairings like Han & Leia, Riker & Troi, John & Delenn, etc. Boy, was I shocked by what TPTW ended up doing!
      That was part of the lecture that I got from SR Jr. As a Sci Fi aficionado, he saw the pattern and just assumed these writers would follow it. I guess there's an argument for originality there, but all I see is a stupid attempt to trick the viewers.
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      Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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        Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
        As someone who originally watched the first two and a half years of SGA without being connected to the fandom and thus not having any idea of what TPTW were saying about their plans for the characters, etc., I have to side with SR Jr. I totally thought the other pair was a red herring, and thought that John/Elizabeth would end up as one of those classic sci-fi pairings like Han & Leia, Riker & Troi, John & Delenn, etc. Boy, was I shocked by what TPTW ended up doing!
        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
        That was part of the lecture that I got from SR Jr. As a Sci Fi aficionado, he saw the pattern and just assumed these writers would follow it. I guess there's an argument for originality there, but all I see is a stupid attempt to trick the viewers.
        I have a weird entry into the fandom--I saw the shows with The Lost Boys, The Hive, Critical Mass, the Tower and then The Long Goodbye first (I was just sorta watching sorta in syndication) and after TLG, was sort of surprised that Sheppard said what he said to Teyla in that episode. Not because I was opposed to it, but because there hadn't really been a hint either way, though when Weir kissed him I was like 'oh, trope time'. TLG was odd to me in that it hit two ships at once, and the Teyla line totally came out of nowhere, because not even in the episode do you have a ton of moments where Teyla looks super concerned that her 'love interest' might be killed by her boss. At least not for a random viewer.

        But I did really like Elizabeth, and after seeing that, decided I wanted to learn more about her, so I researched the show a little, looking for Elizabeth specific episodes. They were in Season 3 and The Real World had just aired, so I found it on iTunes and there I fell in love with Elizabeth. And I was totally confused as to what was going on with Sheppard, given what I'd seen in TLG. *LOL*

        Love of Sparky came a few months later--I decided to invest in the show, and since it was airing on Universal Network in HD starting from season 1, I saw it from the beginning. The whole flirty scene in 38 Minutes was unexpected, but I think the biggest shocker I got was how The Storm/The Eye played out. As far as tropes go--seriously, going ballistic over the death of someone--and in this case, a woman AND a woman they've had him talking to in a friendly like way for a while? That kind of foreshadowing, even in blatantly shippy stuff, is the kind of stuff you hope for, but really don't expect. When Sheppard did it I was totally confused, and wondering 'where exactly are these guys going with all this, cuz don't they have him interested in Teyla in S2?'

        Then I visited the Sparky thread and found out the whole story and realized that's just the way SGA handled things. *le sigh* But I found Sparky and that's what mattered.
        Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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          Mornin ya'll. SR SR Jr. is very astute in his observations. But with Lizzie being the boss and all a real relationship couldn't happen. All that "tension" that results could have been played up more. And the Sheyla thing could've been used to as some fuel for heat between Lizzie and Teyla. Lizzie and Teyla are both leaders and liking the same guy would've led to a real interesting dynamic on the show.

          She-demon some really popular Byronic heroes are Batman, Magneto, and Agent Gibbs over on NCIS.
          "I only understand about 1% of what she says half of the time."

          Comment


            Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
            I have a weird entry into the fandom--I saw the shows with The Lost Boys, The Hive, Critical Mass, the Tower and then The Long Goodbye first (I was just sorta watching sorta in syndication) and after TLG, was sort of surprised that Sheppard said what he said to Teyla in that episode. Not because I was opposed to it, but because there hadn't really been a hint either way, though when Weir kissed him I was like 'oh, trope time'. TLG was odd to me in that it hit two ships at once, and the Teyla line totally came out of nowhere, because not even in the episode do you have a ton of moments where Teyla looks super concerned that her 'love interest' might be killed by her boss. At least not for a random viewer.

            But I did really like Elizabeth, and after seeing that, decided I wanted to learn more about her, so I researched the show a little, looking for Elizabeth specific episodes. They were in Season 3 and The Real World had just aired, so I found it on iTunes and there I fell in love with Elizabeth. And I was totally confused as to what was going on with Sheppard, given what I'd seen in TLG. *LOL*

            Love of Sparky came a few months later--I decided to invest in the show, and since it was airing on Universal Network in HD starting from season 1, I saw it from the beginning. The whole flirty scene in 38 Minutes was unexpected, but I think the biggest shocker I got was how The Storm/The Eye played out. As far as tropes go--seriously, going ballistic over the death of someone--and in this case, a woman AND a woman they've had him talking to in a friendly like way for a while? That kind of foreshadowing, even in blatantly shippy stuff, is the kind of stuff you hope for, but really don't expect. When Sheppard did it I was totally confused, and wondering 'where exactly are these guys going with all this, cuz don't they have him interested in Teyla in S2?'

            Then I visited the Sparky thread and found out the whole story and realized that's just the way SGA handled things. *le sigh* But I found Sparky and that's what mattered.
            There were tons of posters on this thread in the old days who said exactly the same thing about TS/TE. I remember one lovely person who said she had a day off work and was vacuuming. The TV was on the SciFi channel and an SGA marathon was playing. The first thing that caught her eye was John shooting Kolya in TE, which turned her into an instant Sparky shipper.

            As for me, I watched from day one and fell in love with them in the pilot when he turned to wave to her before going through the wormhole. Because I had read the press reports saying that Teyla would be his "probable" love interest, I never thought they were going to go with Sparky, but I sure did quickly come to the conclusion that these writers were not the world's best.

            Originally posted by pkprd869 View Post
            Mornin ya'll. SR SR Jr. is very astute in his observations. But with Lizzie being the boss and all a real relationship couldn't happen. All that "tension" that results could have been played up more. And the Sheyla thing could've been used to as some fuel for heat between Lizzie and Teyla. Lizzie and Teyla are both leaders and liking the same guy would've led to a real interesting dynamic on the show.

            She-demon some really popular Byronic heroes are Batman, Magneto, and Agent Gibbs over on NCIS.
            I have to disagree my friend. I would have hated that sort of love triangle and don't think that level of soap opera has any place in Sci Fi. I hated the Keller triangle for the same reason.

            She-demon, I somehow missed your post asking that Byronic question. Thanks to pkprd for the answer. Sometimes I forget that everyone is not an old English teacher. You can read about it here.

            I think John also fits the tragic hero trope. He has that dark side and his need to save everyone will eventually kill him.
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            Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

            Comment


              Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Pretty Friday!

              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              That was part of the lecture that I got from SR Jr. As a Sci Fi aficionado, he saw the pattern and just assumed these writers would follow it. I guess there's an argument for originality there, but all I see is a stupid attempt to trick the viewers.
              Yup, it just seemed logical that they would go there eventually.

              "Stupid attempt to trick the viewers?" Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it now, too.

              Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
              Love of Sparky came a few months later--I decided to invest in the show, and since it was airing on Universal Network in HD starting from season 1, I saw it from the beginning. The whole flirty scene in 38 Minutes was unexpected, but I think the biggest shocker I got was how The Storm/The Eye played out. As far as tropes go--seriously, going ballistic over the death of someone--and in this case, a woman AND a woman they've had him talking to in a friendly like way for a while? That kind of foreshadowing, even in blatantly shippy stuff, is the kind of stuff you hope for, but really don't expect. When Sheppard did it I was totally confused, and wondering 'where exactly are these guys going with all this, cuz don't they have him interested in Teyla in S2?'

              Then I visited the Sparky thread and found out the whole story and realized that's just the way SGA handled things. *le sigh* But I found Sparky and that's what mattered.
              Yep, while the flirty bits in episodes like 38 Minutes led me down the road, it was those moments in The Storm/The Eye that were really what sealed the deal for me. And I haven't looked back since. Except to smile fondly at good memories. And gesture rudely at TPTW at how they botched things.

              Originally posted by pkprd869 View Post
              Mornin ya'll. SR SR Jr. is very astute in his observations. But with Lizzie being the boss and all a real relationship couldn't happen. All that "tension" that results could have been played up more. And the Sheyla thing could've been used to as some fuel for heat between Lizzie and Teyla. Lizzie and Teyla are both leaders and liking the same guy would've led to a real interesting dynamic on the show.

              She-demon some really popular Byronic heroes are Batman, Magneto, and Agent Gibbs over on NCIS.
              At least, not while she remained the boss. Pesky non-fraternization regs and all that. But now that she's no longer his boss... I guess we do have to thank the fraking Cylons Replicators for something...

              Do have to agree with SR that a triangle would've sucked harder than a black hole. These writers clearly didn't have it in them to pull it off.

              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
              She-demon, I somehow missed your post asking that Byronic question. Thanks to pkprd for the answer. Sometimes I forget that everyone is not an old English teacher. You can read about it here.

              I think John also fits the tragic hero trope. He has that dark side and his need to save everyone will eventually kill him.
              Yes, I can definitely see a tragic death trying to save people in John's future. Which makes it kind of ironic that he was the one to get stranded in the future while everyone else died tragically in the AU of The Last Man.

              Hmm, Tony Stark is on that list too. Gee, why am I not surprised?
              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

              Comment


                Sheppard as Byronic Hero is something I never considered before, but it's a very interesting, fascinating interpretation. Do you think Sheppard fits the description of an intensely introspective person (one of the typical characteristics of the BH archetype as per the link)? I always considered him to be the person who is deeply affected by his feelings and emotions, but who compartmentalizes, does his best to shut his emotions out, to not dwell on them, and he does this reasonably well until suddenly he can't anymore, and these feelings and emotions just overwhelm him (like in "Adrift" when Keller breaks the bad news). I never saw him as the 'brooding' type before. I saw him as more of a 'avoidant' type. But now I am not sure anymore. I always loved introspective heroes the most, but is Sheppard one of them? What do you all think?

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                  Hello everyone, this is something that's on another thread, but what do you guys think of making a list of all the Sparky kids?
                  sigpichttps://www.fanfiction.net/s/7450657...-World-Goes-On Sparky story SGA https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10177037/1/Bad-Moon-Rising Teen Wolf fanfic story https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10573271/1/Skyfall Thor fanfic story
                  https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1168823...here-Was-Light Crimson Peak story sig by yamiinsane

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                    Originally posted by Raelis View Post
                    Sheppard as Byronic Hero is something I never considered before, but it's a very interesting, fascinating interpretation. Do you think Sheppard fits the description of an intensely introspective person (one of the typical characteristics of the BH archetype as per the link)? I always considered him to be the person who is deeply affected by his feelings and emotions, but who compartmentalizes, does his best to shut his emotions out, to not dwell on them, and he does this reasonably well until suddenly he can't anymore, and these feelings and emotions just overwhelm him (like in "Adrift" when Keller breaks the bad news). I never saw him as the 'brooding' type before. I saw him as more of a 'avoidant' type. But now I am not sure anymore. I always loved introspective heroes the most, but is Sheppard one of them? What do you all think?
                    I had the same reaction when the subject came up, but no character fits the trope perfectly. John probably isn't brooding in the true sense of the word, but he does dwell on all those he couldn't save. That's canon. I'm not sure he second guesses himself a lot but may rationalize his actions like we saw in Miller's Crossing. Joe F has said that John feels deeply but isn't able to express his feelings. I think that is a great way to sum him up. Looking at that list on the link I gave under TV, you see people as different as House and Mulder. Plus there's Gibbs, Captain Jack and Quinn Fabray. Each has elements of the trope, but none of them has all the characteristics.

                    John also fits parts of several other "hero archetypes".
                    sigpic

                    Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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                      Tortured Hero being one of those "hero archetypes" he falls into, I think.
                      sigpichttps://www.fanfiction.net/s/7450657...-World-Goes-On Sparky story SGA https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10177037/1/Bad-Moon-Rising Teen Wolf fanfic story https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10573271/1/Skyfall Thor fanfic story
                      https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1168823...here-Was-Light Crimson Peak story sig by yamiinsane

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                        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                        I had the same reaction when the subject came up, but no character fits the trope perfectly. John probably isn't brooding in the true sense of the word, but he does dwell on all those he couldn't save. That's canon. I'm not sure he second guesses himself a lot but may rationalize his actions like we saw in Miller's Crossing. Joe F has said that John feels deeply but isn't able to express his feelings. I think that is a great way to sum him up. Looking at that list on the link I gave under TV, you see people as different as House and Mulder. Plus there's Gibbs, Captain Jack and Quinn Fabray. Each has elements of the trope, but none of them has all the characteristics.

                        John also fits parts of several other "hero archetypes".
                        I agree. I always wondered what happened to Sheppard, what he had to experience, that made him so unable to express his true feelings. Was it his complex relationshipn with his father? Or coud everything be traced back to the people he lost? Does he fear that he actually shows how he feels, anyone he cares about will be taken from him?
                        Last edited by Raelis; 19 October 2012, 09:09 AM.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Raelis View Post
                          I agree. I always wondered what happened to Sheppard, what he had to experience, that made him so unable to express his true feelings. Was it his complex relationshipn with his father? Or coud everything be traced down to the people he lost? Does he fear that he actually shows how he feels, anyone he cares about will be taken from him?
                          I wouldn't be surprised if it were ALL of the above reasons.
                          sigpichttps://www.fanfiction.net/s/7450657...-World-Goes-On Sparky story SGA https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10177037/1/Bad-Moon-Rising Teen Wolf fanfic story https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10573271/1/Skyfall Thor fanfic story
                          https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1168823...here-Was-Light Crimson Peak story sig by yamiinsane

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                            Originally posted by Raelis View Post
                            I agree. I always wondered what happened to Sheppard, what he had to experience, that made him so unable to express his true feelings. Was it his complex relationshipn with his father? Or coud everything be traced back to the people he lost? Does he fear that he actually shows how he feels, anyone he cares about will be taken from him?
                            If I had to guess I'd say it has to do with his mother, but alas we never got the details.
                            sigpic

                            Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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                              Do we ever find out who was the older of the two Sheppard boys?
                              sigpichttps://www.fanfiction.net/s/7450657...-World-Goes-On Sparky story SGA https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10177037/1/Bad-Moon-Rising Teen Wolf fanfic story https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10573271/1/Skyfall Thor fanfic story
                              https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1168823...here-Was-Light Crimson Peak story sig by yamiinsane

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                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                If I had to guess I'd say it has to do with his mother, but alas we never got the details.
                                Yeah... I'd give a lot to know what the story there was.

                                Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon View Post
                                Do we ever find out who was the older of the two Sheppard boys?
                                I got the impression John was older, but I don't remember what it was based on...

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