Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Sparky She-Demon]

Can the Lemming talk?

[Falcon Horus]

Can the Lemming talk?

Depends on the day.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Depends on the day.

Say the Lemming was in Elizabeth's closet while her and John were dancing the horizontal tango?

Can it talk then?

[Falcon Horus]

Say the Lemming was in Elizabeth's closet while her and John were dancing the horizontal tango?

Can it talk then?

Possibly.

[Sparky She-Demon]

The She-Demon also likes to snoop around. It likes to travel the service ducts to get around.

[Falcon Horus]

The She-Demon also likes to snoop around. It likes to travel the service ducts to get around.

Be aware - sometimes you'll find Zelenka crawling around there too.

[Sparky She-Demon]

That's why the She-Demon can understand Czech!

[Infinite-Possibilities]

The Long Goodbye is one of my favorite episodes but not necessarily because of Sparky. That said I did think it was where Sparky was most obvious.

I think probably what stood out to me most about the episode that I liked was that it was actually a huge milestone for Caldwell. He'd just gotten through that whole thing with the Goa'uld and that was big enough on it's own but with Sheppard and Weir being compromised he actually ended up inheriting the role of "leader of the good guys" for one episode that normally one or both them have. There were a few hints before but, if Critical Mass was when Caldwell first seemed like he might truly join the "team" (not just be an ally), The Long Goodbye was what cemented it for me. I just kinda wish that maybe his leadership had contributed more to the solution in the end.

The kiss itself is not really a John and Elizabeth kiss true, but to me it seemed clearly hinting at the pairing more so than anything else, even if from an outside of universe perspective. I've mentioned this before, but I don't think the kiss has any reason to exist from an in universe perspective. Even Thalan seemed surprised that Phebus decided to do it, but it still gave the show the excuse to shows Torri and Joe making out while romantic music played and all the other characters looked on and made fun of them for it afterward. Did it say a lot of obvious stuff about the characters themselves? No. But it did still seem to heavily show off the idea of them together to the audience. At least that was how it looked to me.

Conversion meanwhile, was almost the opposite type of sparky episode. To me that was probably one of the best examples of how I never really noticed individual sparky moments unless they were really impossible to miss. With that episode, I mostly noticed the obvious first, like the kiss with Sheppard and Teyla. The stuff with Elizabeth afterward seems much more powerful to me in retrospect, but at the time it wasn't especially noteworthy to me. That was just how they acted around each-other. Again, it was all part of of the sparky "background noise", although in this case it was most of the meat of the episode.

You could probably find a lot of examples of Sheyla stuff in either episode too. It seemed pretty clear to me that both also did have feelings for each other, but when I first watched the show I thought they were pretty clearly writing a subtle love triangle so I'm not even sure if there would even be many episodes explicitly sparky or Sheyla. Seeing how the triangle was not a huge part of the series and supposedly unintentional, all characters' stories were woven into the overall narrative pretty seamlessly.

[ShWeir]

I have to share this Downton Abbey spoiler;

Don't say I didn't warn ya, so stay away if you don't wanna know

Spoiler:

There's going to be a birth and a death in Downton, now obviously the birth is Sybil's child but the death was surprising, I'll put it in a spoiler underneath

Spoiler:

Sybil dies in S03EP05! I can't believe that she dies her, Mary and Violet are my favourite characters and now she's dead!

[poundpuppy29]

[Sparky She-Demon]

Not a bad picture. Where is it from?

[mandogater]

dude, if only I could get turned down by a woman. the ones I like dont like me, and the ones I dont like scare the bejesus out of me

Join the club. I have the same problem.

[Southern Red]

The Long Goodbye is one of my favorite episodes but not necessarily because of Sparky. That said I did think it was where Sparky was most obvious.

I think probably what stood out to me most about the episode that I liked was that it was actually a huge milestone for Caldwell. He'd just gotten through that whole thing with the Goa'uld and that was big enough on it's own but with Sheppard and Weir being compromised he actually ended up inheriting the role of "leader of the good guys" for one episode that normally one or both them have. There were a few hints before but, if Critical Mass was when Caldwell first seemed like he might truly join the "team" (not just be an ally), The Long Goodbye was what cemented it for me. I just kinda wish that maybe his leadership had contributed more to the solution in the end.

The kiss itself is not really a John and Elizabeth kiss true, but to me it seemed clearly hinting at the pairing more so than anything else, even if from an outside of universe perspective. I've mentioned this before, but I don't think the kiss has any reason to exist from an in universe perspective. Even Thalan seemed surprised that Phebus decided to do it, but it still gave the show the excuse to shows Torri and Joe making out while romantic music played and all the other characters looked on and made fun of them for it afterward. Did it say a lot of obvious stuff about the characters themselves? No. But it did still seem to heavily show off the idea of them together to the audience. At least that was how it looked to me.

Conversion meanwhile, was almost the opposite type of sparky episode. To me that was probably one of the best examples of how I never really noticed individual sparky moments unless they were really impossible to miss. With that episode, I mostly noticed the obvious first, like the kiss with Sheppard and Teyla. The stuff with Elizabeth afterward seems much more powerful to me in retrospect, but at the time it wasn't especially noteworthy to me. That was just how they acted around each-other. Again, it was all part of of the sparky "background noise", although in this case it was most of the meat of the episode.

You could probably find a lot of examples of Sheyla stuff in either episode too. It seemed pretty clear to me that both also did have feelings for each other, but when I first watched the show I thought they were pretty clearly writing a subtle love triangle so I'm not even sure if there would even be many episodes explicitly sparky or Sheyla. Seeing how the triangle was not a huge part of the series and supposedly unintentional, all characters' stories were woven into the overall narrative pretty seamlessly.

It's funny, but SR Jr. said the exact same thing you did about TLG. He patiently explained to me, as only a child can do to his/her mother, that the Sparky kiss was a common trope in Sci Fi that foreshadowed a relationship. He was dead serious and always considered Sheyla to be a red herring. I tried to tell him what TPTB were planning, but he wasn't buying it. If only he had been right.

I have to share this Downton Abbey spoiler;

Don't say I didn't warn ya, so stay away if you don't wanna know

Spoiler:

There's going to be a birth and a death in Downton, now obviously the birth is Sybil's child but the death was surprising, I'll put it in a spoiler underneath

Spoiler:

Sybil dies in S03EP05! I can't believe that she dies her, Mary and Violet are my favourite characters and now she's dead!

I saw that and was very much shocked. Love that show to infinity. I'm glad I wasn't spoiled though.

[Scary Kitty]

It's funny, but SR Jr. said the exact same thing you did about TLG. He patiently explained to me, as only a child can do to his/her mother, that the Sparky kiss was a common trope in Sci Fi that foreshadowed a relationship. He was dead serious and always considered Sheyla to be a red herring. I tried to tell him what TPTB were planning, but he wasn't buying it. If only he had been right.

As someone who originally watched the first two and a half years of SGA without being connected to the fandom and thus not having any idea of what TPTW were saying about their plans for the characters, etc., I have to side with SR Jr. I totally thought the other pair was a red herring, and thought that John/Elizabeth would end up as one of those classic sci-fi pairings like Han & Leia, Riker & Troi, John & Delenn, etc. Boy, was I shocked by what TPTW ended up doing!

[Sparky She-Demon]

As someone who originally watched the first two and a half years of SGA without being connected to the fandom and thus not having any idea of what TPTW were saying about their plans for the characters, etc., I have to side with SR Jr. I totally thought the other pair was a red herring, and thought that John/Elizabeth would end up as one of those classic sci-fi pairings like Han & Leia, Riker & Troi, John & Delenn, etc. Boy, was I shocked by what TPTW ended up doing!

And we hate TPTW for doing what they did with John and Elizabeth!!!