Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[ShipperWriter]

124,000 POSTS!

Time for a party!

[ShipperWriter]

Some champagne for the occasion:

[ShipperWriter]

And for my 3,300th post:



Why did we put Rodney in charge of the fireworks?

Because I knew he'd screw them up.

That seems rather stupid.

But it gave me a chance to touch you.

I take it back. Not stupid at all.

[ShWeir]

Happy 124,000th post everyone!

[TheLadyMore]

Boo ya the Spark remainth strong within us!

[Southern Red]

Haha, another thing about TRW was how everyone talked to John as if he actually was her significant other so to speak, just the way that everyone turned to him when they had to make a decision about what to do next when it came to Elizabeth, interesting enough it was almost the exact same thing as they did in ‘Conversion’ only then it was Elizabeth that was treated as the wife/girlfriend and had to make the decisions concerning John, now I guess one could argue that they are the once in charge but since they were both medical situation the decision would technically fall on Carson and what he thinks is right. Now if you don’t want to see it as a significant other kind of way then one can at least say that the rest of them saw that John and Elizabeth cared deeply for one another and knew that if something were to happen to either of them that the other one would know what to do (and know what the person in question would really want).

And on a side note it’s the really great end scene when John walks up to her what we can think is really late at night to make sure that she is alright, and when she says that she can’t sleep he understands it and in a way he knows how she feels.
One line that always made me wonder though was:

”Well, it's good to have you back in the real world. ... At least, I think it's the real world ... I could be infected right now, which makes me the one ...”

So, if he was infected he would dream of Elizabeth (it’s a similar thing to what happened in ‘Progeny’ when John gets his mind probed and what his mind conquered up which was a whole lot of Elizabeth and even some eye!sex moments).

Jennifer also treated John like the next of kin in Adrift, and Sam talked to him like he was a grieving husband in Reunion. There were other times too that I'm too tired to try to remember. Those scenes showed us how they were connected. Nobody needed to tell us anything.

This started out as part of the challenge on the Art-for-All thread - had nothing to do with Sparky originally but this seemed to fit better I thought .......

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...MRsparkyft.jpg

Lovely and sweet and lovely.

Today it as exactly 8 years ago (July 16, 2004) that the Atlantis expedition invited us to join their adventures in the Pegasus galaxy, it’s really hard to believe because sometimes it feels like only yesterday.

http://i49.tinypic.com/anemhg.jpg

In a way it seems like it just began and in another like it will never end.

124,000 POSTS!

Time for a party!

Woot! Celebrate Sparky!

And good sigs SW.

[ShipperWriter]

Jennifer also treated John like the next of kin in Adrift, and Sam talked to him like he was a grieving husband in Reunion. There were other times too that I'm too tired to try to remember. Those scenes showed us how they were connected. Nobody needed to tell us anything.

Actions speak louder than words.

Woot! Celebrate Sparky!

And good sigs SW.

Thank you. *curtsies*

Just finished watching the "Eureka" finale. And wow. It was one of the best finales I've seen in a while.

Heading to bed. Have a good night, everybody!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Hard to believe that if sga were still on the air they would've been goin on their ninth season. That would've given them over what 160, 170 episodes?

[ShipperWriter]

Hard to believe that if sga were still on the air they would've been goin on their ninth season. That would've given them over what 160, 170 episodes?

Imagine all the stories that could've been told ... and the countless ways I can think of for them to bring Elizabeth back ... *whimpers*

Oh well. SGA Rising for the win.

Anyhow, I was whumping myself and rewatching parts of "Adrift" (I needed some screen caps) and I watched the part after McKay tells John he reactivated Elizabeth's nanites and John looks ready to punch him. This line, though:

SHEPPARD: Shut it down.

McKAY: But ... that would kill her.

SHEPPARD: What do you think Elizabeth would want? D’you think she’d want ...

McKAY: Yes, she would! She’d sure as hell do the same for you.

SHEPPARD: Well, you obviously didn’t know her very well.

McKAY: Oh, maybe not, but d’you know what? Give it some time, you can ask her yourself.

SHEPPARD: NO! It’s too dangerous. Shut it down. Right now.

I actually got goosebumps rewatching this. And it convinces me that there was an offscreen Sparky conversation that happened after TRW where Elizabeth talked about this with John. And the way that he was acting like/being treated like he was her next of kin? Proof is in the puddin', y'all.

Okay. That's my two cents for the night. Now I'm going to bed!

[mandogater]

Good morning!

I'm heading to Tampa to go hang out with my sister allday at Busch Gardens, so I'll be MIA allday.

mandogater, thanks for the green!

SR, I just saw the video for "Glass" on CMT. You're right, it is a perfect song for John and Elizabeth. I especially like the line

Spoiler:

But try not to judge me, 'cause we've walked down different paths,
But it brought us here together, so I won't take that back.

Awesome.

I'll be back later! I hope everybody has a great Monday!

*zips out*

You're welcome, SW. I like your new sig as well. Some of the many looks of Elizabeth.

[mandogater]

Thanks. *hugs* It was definitely a good time on Friday. I'll just have to remember that I haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of getting into Hall H unless I'm staying in San Diego and can line up before 8am.

You're welcome. *hugs back*

The way talk about it, even with the huge crowds I've seen on youtube clips, I really want to check it out someday. It has to be better than the small comic con I went to in Columbus a few years ago.

[gateraid]

You didn't ruin it. Nothing is ever ruined by a touch of humor.

It was baseline humour and didn't add a lot

I think you can also see it in the coffee scene in Intruder, when he has no problem sitting down, asking her what's up and they chat like it's no big deal. A fun scene to consider is at the end of Critical Mass, when he walks into her office specifically to let her know that Zelenka looks like a clown. She's pensive and sad because of the events of the story and he listens to her, and consoles her, but truthfully he walked in either to cheer her up or just to gossip. And Misbegotten has the wonderful 'defending my honor' scene in it, when he walks up to talk to her just out of sheer irritation about Woolsey's questioning her judgment.

A lot of the way the actors played the characters cut away the necessity for 'personal' scenes, I think. You didn't have to see John and Elizabeth have a heart-to-heart about her love life in order to understand they were friends. Joe's having Sheppard come plop his little booty on her desk from time to time, or infringe her personal space without her batting an eyelash, showed they had a particular comfort level you didn't see from two straight co-workers. I'm pretty sure John never sat on Woolsey's desk. Though I only saw Season 5 once. Or Sam's. Did he ever even sit in Sam's presence? I even think they had bigger desks.

There were the Boston Legal whiskey and cigar scenes to show John and Woolsey being buddy buddy. Of course Denny and Alan got married at the end of the show, not the comparison I'd want to make

Well aren't you just the little multi-tasker today?



You know I got the idea for this post from you. Thanks for adding more.

So true. For once they SHOWED us that John was comfortable around her instead of TELLING us. We have a ton of scenes just like you mentioned that illustrate it. There were many times when he came to her office or sought her out on the balcony when he didn't have to and never seemed to be in a hurry to talk about work. Often on the balcony they just looked at the ocean or sky for a moment and drifted into casual conversation as two friends do. Even when it was work related, like in The Tower, he still made it personal. Why did he say what he did about getting the girl and then take it back? Not something you'd make part of a report to your boss. I can see it now, you come back from a road trip and tell your boss you accomplished the goals you had been given and then, oh BTW, I got a date with this really cute guy. WTF? TMI, or what?

You mentioned Misbegotten. What exactly was John's purpose for coming to tell her about how pissed he was at Woolsey? Was he really asking permission to knock him in the head or was he just letting off steam to a friend? Maybe he wanted her to know that he stood up for her. How cute is that?

Joe and Torri did indeed seem comfortable with each other. Knowing what we do about how they argued politics, it's no surprise. They are both well informed, intelligent people with diametrically opposing views who could "argue" passionately and then be completely professional when doing a scene together. But we know that some of that fire stayed in their eyes and voila, you got Sparky.

No, he never sat on Sam's desk. He leaned against it I think once and he sat in those big new comfy chairs they had. It also makes me want to kick something when I read fics that have John calling her by her first name. Not gonna happen. One does not call one's CO in the military by their first name in uniform while on duty.

Re Misbegotten, that scene has always puzzled me. First, it was an add-on by a writer who both disliked Weir (and then later Joe personally) to show the passage of time. Second, the character motivations are all up the whop. He's either peacocking (displaying his feathers in a show of manhood to impress teh lady), expressing his distaste at the bureaucratic process, coming up there specifically to point out that he was on her side against Woolsey/IOA, or to show what a big softie Woolsey really was.

As for the "Sam" thing, that never sat well with me (John especially would never call her that). In fairness, when Sam said to Teyla in Kindred (?) to "call me Sam" I half expected Teyla to say "why?"

I mentioned in said LJ post above--it would be fun to see what the others in the control room thought about John plopping down on Liz's desk--considering it was pretty much in full sight of them. I mean, could you imagine what Chuck thought?

"Colonel Sheppard is sitting on her desk. @___@"

Anyone want to write fanfic on that?

Anuna's Mirroring kind of goes into that. But we seriously need a full-blown series from the perspective of the control room crew.



OMG, combine that with the above idea... An entire series of Tweets/emails/chat room conversations about nothing but the control room crew's observations of John and Elizabeth in Elizabeth's office. PLOT BUNNY ON THE LOOSE!!!

I also touched on it briefly (long ago) in my Atlantis: The Movie fic, although that was mostly just Chuck cursing that he was going to have to re-organise the office after Carter and Lorne 'field tested' the desk

Imagine all the stories that could've been told ... and the countless ways I can think of for them to bring Elizabeth back ... *whimpers*

Oh well. SGA Rising for the win.

Anyhow, I was whumping myself and rewatching parts of "Adrift" (I needed some screen caps) and I watched the part after McKay tells John he reactivated Elizabelth's nanites and John looks ready to punch him. This line, though:

I actually got goosebumps rewatching this. And it convinces me that there was an offscreen Sparky conversation that happened after TRW where Elizabeth talked about this with John. And the way that he was acting like/being treated like he was her next of kin? Proof is in the puddin', y'all.

Okay. That's my two cents for the night. Now I'm going to bed!

The line that you bolded "you obviously didn't know her very well" is another mystery. It was probably meant to show that Elizabeth was isolated from the rest of the expedition (didn't make friends, cold....that type of thing) yet in the same breath it illustrates that the person she was closest to was......none other than one John Sheppard. Fail.

[Southern Red]

Imagine all the stories that could've been told ... and the countless ways I can think of for them to bring Elizabeth back ... *whimpers*

Oh well. SGA Rising for the win.

Anyhow, I was whumping myself and rewatching parts of "Adrift" (I needed some screen caps) and I watched the part after McKay tells John he reactivated Elizabeth's nanites and John looks ready to punch him. This line, though:

I actually got goosebumps rewatching this. And it convinces me that there was an offscreen Sparky conversation that happened after TRW where Elizabeth talked about this with John. And the way that he was acting like/being treated like he was her next of kin? Proof is in the puddin', y'all.

Okay. That's my two cents for the night. Now I'm going to bed!

I think you're right. If John was not close to her, how would he know what she wanted. Maybe she would want to live by any means possible. Some people do. Talking about how you want to be treated when incapacitated is something only very close friends do. And what does Rodney say? Maybe not. To me that is an acknowledgement that John knows her better.

Re Misbegotten, that scene has always puzzled me. First, it was an add-on by a writer who both disliked Weir (and then later Joe personally) to show the passage of time. Second, the character motivations are all up the whop. He's either peacocking (displaying his feathers in a show of manhood to impress teh lady), expressing his distaste at the bureaucratic process, coming up there specifically to point out that he was on her side against Woolsey/IOA, or to show what a big softie Woolsey really was.

If you are looking at it from the standpoint of why it was written, that's a good observation. Why him? Why her? Why the flirty humor? If you're just looking for a scene to fill time, why not show somebody else being interviewed? Or show the team talking about Woolsey?

As for the "Sam" thing, that never sat well with me (John especially would never call her that). In fairness, when Sam said to Teyla in Kindred (?) to "call me Sam" I half expected Teyla to say "why?"

Since Teyla called Elizabeth by her first name, I guess they thought they had to do the same thing with Sam. That was okay, since Teyla is not military. But the military guys were all below her in rank. Can you see one of them calling Caldwell "Steven"? It was also part of the attempt to show her as being just one of the team along with having her eat with them. I'm still pissed off about that.

The line that you bolded "you obviously didn't know her very well" is another mystery. It was probably meant to show that Elizabeth was isolated from the rest of the expedition (didn't make friends, cold....that type of thing) yet in the same breath it illustrates that the person she was closest to was......none other than one John Sheppard. Fail.

I don't really think that was the case. Rodney had known her longer and thought he was a close friend of hers. There may have been a tiny bit of jealousy over seeing how close she and John had become (just in a non-shippy way). Plus, Rodney was being emotional because he wanted to save her and didn't understand why John wanted to stop him. Or it may have been a diabolical writer wanting us shippers to think John was willing to kill her. Who knows? I know it just made a few Elizabeth haters very happy. How some writers must have giggled at the fan conflict.

[Brie]

124,000 POSTS!

Time for a party!

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/..._fireworks.gif

It’s awesome, we’ve passed 6200 pages and 124,000 posts.

And for my 3,300th post:



Why did we put Rodney in charge of the fireworks?

Because I knew he'd screw them up.

That seems rather stupid.

But it gave me a chance to touch you.

I take it back. Not stupid at all.

Congratulations and great pictures + the text is hilarious, I bet John had a long list of excuses to both touch and just be near her.

Jennifer also treated John like the next of kin in Adrift, and Sam talked to him like he was a grieving husband in Reunion. There were other times too that I'm too tired to try to remember. Those scenes showed us how they were connected. Nobody needed to tell us anything.

Yupp, there were really a lot of them + all of the time John keep using the term ‘I’ when it came to her. All and all no one can deny that they were defiantly important to each other.

Re Misbegotten, that scene has always puzzled me. First, it was an add-on by a writer who both disliked Weir (and then later Joe personally) to show the passage of time. Second, the character motivations are all up the whop. He's either peacocking (displaying his feathers in a show of manhood to impress teh lady), expressing his distaste at the bureaucratic process, coming up there specifically to point out that he was on her side against Woolsey/IOA, or to show what a big softie Woolsey really was.

If you are looking at it from the standpoint of why it was written, that's a good observation. Why him? Why her? Why the flirty humor? If you're just looking for a scene to fill time, why not show somebody else being interviewed? Or show the team talking about Woolsey?

I never thought of that scene that way before but I think you both are right, it was a bit of an odd scene to put in there, now granted Joe and Torri may not have acted it the way the writer may have intended it however the lines were still written the way they were and they were defiantly flirty so I’m not surprised that Joe and Torri acted them out the way they did.

Since Teyla called Elizabeth by her first name, I guess they thought they had to do the same thing with Sam. That was okay, since Teyla is not military. But the military guys were all below her in rank. Can you see one of them calling Caldwell "Steven"? It was also part of the attempt to show her as being just one of the team along with having her eat with them. I'm still pissed off about that.

Whenever I see ’Doppelganger’ I get so mad, the whole episode (with the exaptation of the good-John/evil-John fight which was pretty cool), was just a big waste and other then the obvious parts that made me mad the end part just made my blood boil, no, it’s an episode I can skip.

I don't really think that was the case. Rodney had known her longer and thought he was a close friend of hers. There may have been a tiny bit of jealousy over seeing how close she and John had become (just in a non-shippy way). Plus, Rodney was being emotional because he wanted to save her and didn't understand why John wanted to stop him. Or it may have been a diabolical writer wanting us shippers to think John was willing to kill her. Who knows? I know it just made a few Elizabeth haters very happy. How some writers must have giggled at the fan conflict.

I really don’t want to think that the writers wanted it to be portrayed like that though thinking about it they defiantly could have which would suck, though if the writers on some level want that then I give all the more credit to both Joe and David because they went beyond what the script said and really did act it as if John and Rodney were losing a friend and not just someone who was their boss. You also have to take their jobs into consideration when talking about the dialog and the fact that John is military and knows all to painfully well the human emotion behind that kind of trauma and knows what it’s like to feel like you might be a danger to the people you care about while Rodney as a scientist probably view it differently and feels that if he can find a way (no matter what way that is) to save her he would however he only thought about keeping her alive but maybe not what saving her by reactivating the nanites would do to her the next day or the next week or for the rest of her life (and no one does know what kind of life a human with activated nanites in them will have, would they be able to live a normal life, you know have kids, grow old etc. or will the nanites change their body, maybe not take over but maybe they would keep her from ever getting hurt, maybe they would even keep her from ever growing old), I dunno, though now I must admit that I am a bit curies.

[Eri13]

Imagine all the stories that could've been told ... and the countless ways I can think of for them to bring Elizabeth back ... *whimpers*

Oh well. SGA Rising for the win.

Anyhow, I was whumping myself and rewatching parts of "Adrift" (I needed some screen caps) and I watched the part after McKay tells John he reactivated Elizabeth's nanites and John looks ready to punch him. This line, though:

I actually got goosebumps rewatching this. And it convinces me that there was an offscreen Sparky conversation that happened after TRW where Elizabeth talked about this with John. And the way that he was acting like/being treated like he was her next of kin? Proof is in the puddin', y'all.

Okay. That's my two cents for the night. Now I'm going to bed!

Oh yes. That argument, which breaks my heart and yet I find one of the strongest proofs of how close John was to Elizabeth. Well that, and this:

It was baseline humour and didn't add a lot

There were the Boston Legal whiskey and cigar scenes to show John and Woolsey being buddy buddy. Of course Denny and Alan got married at the end of the show, not the comparison I'd want to make

Re Misbegotten, that scene has always puzzled me. First, it was an add-on by a writer who both disliked Weir (and then later Joe personally) to show the passage of time. Second, the character motivations are all up the whop. He's either peacocking (displaying his feathers in a show of manhood to impress teh lady), expressing his distaste at the bureaucratic process, coming up there specifically to point out that he was on her side against Woolsey/IOA, or to show what a big softie Woolsey really was.

As for the "Sam" thing, that never sat well with me (John especially would never call her that). In fairness, when Sam said to Teyla in Kindred (?) to "call me Sam" I half expected Teyla to say "why?"

I also touched on it briefly (long ago) in my Atlantis: The Movie fic, although that was mostly just Chuck cursing that he was going to have to re-organise the office after Carter and Lorne 'field tested' the desk

The line that you bolded "you obviously didn't know her very well" is another mystery. It was probably meant to show that Elizabeth was isolated from the rest of the expedition (didn't make friends, cold....that type of thing) yet in the same breath it illustrates that the person she was closest to was......none other than one John Sheppard. Fail.

On the Misbegotten thing, I have a feeling that scene, like so many, was thrown in to inject a little humor and to show how the Lanteans 'stick together' against the Earth-peoples who want to mess with their fun. It was an 'exposition' scene, and there's really not two other people who could make that point so quickly or clearly. If Woolsey questions John's abilities, well, that's already been done before (See: Intruder). No one is going to question Rodney's position on the team. Minor characters and aliens don't count as people to take potshots at, they're minor characters and aliens. So the person attacked has to be Elizabeth, and the responder has to be either John or Rodney. Now, as a writer, you ask yourself who is better to come in and gripe about Elizabeth's honor *cue hypothetical dreamy music and hypothetical, made-up scenario*:

PM: I think it should be Sheppard. He's so lackadaisical it'll be funny to see him griping about Woolsey.
JM: It needs to be McKay. He's so arrogant he's the only one who can stand up to Woolsey.
PM: McKay? I don't think that'll work.
JM: Why? He's perfect. And it'll be funny to see him get all bashful when Elizabeth points out he's defending her honor.
PM: Why would McKay gripe about it? He's already so arrogant, he'd just tell Woolsey that. He wouldn't think it was even an issue.
JM: Yes, but concerning Elizabeth's...
PM: Concerning Elizabeth's what? Having Rodney come into her office and gripe is completely out of character for him.
JM: All McKay DOES is gripe.
PM: ABOUT HIMSELF. Sheppard's the best. He works, and he'll be funny.
JM: You realize what could come of a 'honor' scene from Sheppard and Weir.
We have no choice. And there's no ship in here anyway, you know that.
SHIPPERS: Thank you!

I think you're right. If John was not close to her, how would he know what she wanted. Maybe she would want to live by any means possible. Some people do. Talking about how you want to be treated when incapacitated is something only very close friends do. And what does Rodney say? Maybe not. To me that is an acknowledgement that John knows her better.

If you are looking at it from the standpoint of why it was written, that's a good observation. Why him? Why her? Why the flirty humor? If you're just looking for a scene to fill time, why not show somebody else being interviewed? Or show the team talking about Woolsey?

Since Teyla called Elizabeth by her first name, I guess they thought they had to do the same thing with Sam. That was okay, since Teyla is not military. But the military guys were all below her in rank. Can you see one of them calling Caldwell "Steven"? It was also part of the attempt to show her as being just one of the team along with having her eat with them. I'm still pissed off about that.

I don't really think that was the case. Rodney had known her longer and thought he was a close friend of hers. There may have been a tiny bit of jealousy over seeing how close she and John had become (just in a non-shippy way). Plus, Rodney was being emotional because he wanted to save her and didn't understand why John wanted to stop him. Or it may have been a diabolical writer wanting us shippers to think John was willing to kill her. Who knows? I know it just made a few Elizabeth haters very happy. How some writers must have giggled at the fan conflict.

On the Adrift line (again) I think it implied that no one knew Elizabeth better than John, and he took pride in that. His forceful exertion of it to Rodney emphasizes just how much it means to him to do what Elizabeth wants. What has to be taken into consideration for the 'haters' here is that the argument doesn't keen to 'what's best for the city'. John never says the city will be put in danger as the principle part of the argument. It's what Elizabeth would want for the city. That's what he's fighting about. And Rodney does care about Elizabeth more than almost anyone, but he is not as close to her as John.

It's an echo of what he mentions in Common Ground, and it reflects how he treats her throughout season 3. Notice there's really not a questioning of her authority anymore. They're pretty much a melded unit (except for that heinous example of all of them in Return, Part I) and other than doing the typical stuff that would irritate each other (getting drug-charmed by evil smarmy con artists/accidentally setting a planet at war with itself, etc) they're in sync. So much so that I still say it's interesting that in the 'getting to know you after three years episode', Sunday, they completely omitted John running across Elizabeth AT ALL. He should have had something to say about Bearded Mike, but...

It's also interesting in light of First Strike, where he agrees to go along with Ellis contrary to what Elizabeth wants. I don't wonder if some of his vehemence is the residual effect of the fact that he defied her to the partial consequence of the current situation, and he was feeling the weight of that, as John liked to do.