Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Eri13]

With the rewatch going on and all, I have been checking some of the old episode threads to see what some of the newer people and those watching S1-2 again after a long time might be saying. A couple of interesting things have come up. Some think that there were not enough personal moments to let the viewer know that these people cared about each other. I tend to agree.

I think we got little hints that they were friends, more tell than show as these writers tended to do, but one moment stands out. John giving the birthday present to Elizabeth.

This was relatively early in S1. Not a lot of connections among any of the expedition members had been firmly established, yet we see him going out of his way to somehow get her a present from the Athosians. Teyla must have had a hand in this somehow, and we never learned how he knew it was her birthday. This is a very personal moment, not work required, not part of his job, certainly not expected. Do we ever see this kind of moment between any other two characters? What would even come close? John playing games with Ronon and Rodney? Plans to go fishing with Carson? Teyla and Ronon meditating? Beer on the pier? John and Ronon drinking beer? I'm still thinking hard...but none of those were as carefully planned out and done purposefully to make the other person feel better. And then later in TOR we see John and Elizabeth casually having lunch together like it's a common thing. All canon evidence that they had a personal connection outside work.

I think you can also see it in the coffee scene in Intruder, when he has no problem sitting down, asking her what's up and they chat like it's no big deal. A fun scene to consider is at the end of Critical Mass, when he walks into her office specifically to let her know that Zelenka looks like a clown. She's pensive and sad because of the events of the story and he listens to her, and consoles her, but truthfully he walked in either to cheer her up or just to gossip. And Misbegotten has the wonderful 'defending my honor' scene in it, when he walks up to talk to her just out of sheer irritation about Woolsey's questioning her judgment.

A lot of the way the actors played the characters cut away the necessity for 'personal' scenes, I think. You didn't have to see John and Elizabeth have a heart-to-heart about her love life in order to understand they were friends. Joe's having Sheppard come plop his little booty on her desk from time to time, or infringe her personal space without her batting an eyelash, showed they had a particular comfort level you didn't see from two straight co-workers. I'm pretty sure John never sat on Woolsey's desk. Though I only saw Season 5 once. Or Sam's. Did he ever even sit in Sam's presence? I even think they had bigger desks.

[Southern Red]

*pops in*

Well, it's monsooning in Florida so my plans got canceled for the afternoon. So I'm at home, doing laundry and watching the "Eureka" marathon on SyFy and making sigs and baking cookies.

*lurks*

Well aren't you just the little multi-tasker today?

I think you can also see it in the coffee scene in Intruder, when he has no problem sitting down, asking her what's up and they chat like it's no big deal. A fun scene to consider is at the end of Critical Mass, when he walks into her office specifically to let her know that Zelenka looks like a clown. She's pensive and sad because of the events of the story and he listens to her, and consoles her, but truthfully he walked in either to cheer her up or just to gossip. And Misbegotten has the wonderful 'defending my honor' scene in it, when he walks up to talk to her just out of sheer irritation about Woolsey's questioning her judgment.

A lot of the way the actors played the characters cut away the necessity for 'personal' scenes, I think. You didn't have to see John and Elizabeth have a heart-to-heart about her love life in order to understand they were friends. Joe's having Sheppard come plop his little booty on her desk from time to time, or infringe her personal space without her batting an eyelash, showed they had a particular comfort level you didn't see from two straight co-workers. I'm pretty sure John never sat on Woolsey's desk. Though I only saw Season 5 once. Or Sam's. Did he ever even sit in Sam's presence? I even think they had bigger desks.

You know I got the idea for this post from you. Thanks for adding more.

So true. For once they SHOWED us that John was comfortable around her instead of TELLING us. We have a ton of scenes just like you mentioned that illustrate it. There were many times when he came to her office or sought her out on the balcony when he didn't have to and never seemed to be in a hurry to talk about work. Often on the balcony they just looked at the ocean or sky for a moment and drifted into casual conversation as two friends do. Even when it was work related, like in The Tower, he still made it personal. Why did he say what he did about getting the girl and then take it back? Not something you'd make part of a report to your boss. I can see it now, you come back from a road trip and tell your boss you accomplished the goals you had been given and then, oh BTW, I got a date with this really cute guy. WTF? TMI, or what?

You mentioned Misbegotten. What exactly was John's purpose for coming to tell her about how pissed he was at Woolsey? Was he really asking permission to knock him in the head or was he just letting off steam to a friend? Maybe he wanted her to know that he stood up for her. How cute is that?

Joe and Torri did indeed seem comfortable with each other. Knowing what we do about how they argued politics, it's no surprise. They are both well informed, intelligent people with diametrically opposing views who could "argue" passionately and then be completely professional when doing a scene together. But we know that some of that fire stayed in their eyes and voila, you got Sparky.

No, he never sat on Sam's desk. He leaned against it I think once and he sat in those big new comfy chairs they had. It also makes me want to kick something when I read fics that have John calling her by her first name. Not gonna happen. One does not call one's CO in the military by their first name in uniform while on duty.

[CherryBlossom]

Well aren't you just the little multi-tasker today?



You know I got the idea for this post from you. Thanks for adding more.

So true. For once they SHOWED us that John was comfortable around her instead of TELLING us. We have a ton of scenes just like you mentioned that illustrate it. There were many times when he came to her office or sought her out on the balcony when he didn't have to and never seemed to be in a hurry to talk about work. Often on the balcony they just looked at the ocean or sky for a moment and drifted into casual conversation as two friends do. Even when it was work related, like in The Tower, he still made it personal. Why did he say what he did about getting the girl and then take it back? Not something you'd make part of a report to your boss. I can see it now, you come back from a road trip and tell your boss you accomplished the goals you had been given and then, oh BTW, I got a date with this really cute guy. WTF? TMI, or what?

You mentioned Misbegotten. What exactly was John's purpose for coming to tell her about how pissed he was at Woolsey? Was he really asking permission to knock him in the head or was he just letting off steam to a friend? Maybe he wanted her to know that he stood up for her. How cute is that?

Joe and Torri did indeed seem comfortable with each other. Knowing what we do about how they argued politics, it's no surprise. They are both well informed, intelligent people with diametrically opposing views who could "argue" passionately and then be completely professional when doing a scene together. But we know that some of that fire stayed in their eyes and voila, you got Sparky.

No, he never sat on Sam's desk. He leaned against it I think once and he sat in those big new comfy chairs they had. It also makes me want to kick something when I read fics that have John calling her by her first name. Not gonna happen. One does not call one's CO in the military by their first name in uniform while on duty.

I think this is so true. I don't know that I ever really thought about it, but it might be what was missing from the later seasons. I never felt the same emotional draw to them.

I'm gonna have to write a scene for my fic that has Shep sprawled over Lizzies desk!!

[ShipperWriter]

Just redid my John Sheppard sig from a while back. Gotta do one for Elizabeth.



Off to eat more cookies do some laundry.

[Eri13]

Well aren't you just the little multi-tasker today?

You know I got the idea for this post from you. Thanks for adding more.

So true. For once they SHOWED us that John was comfortable around her instead of TELLING us. We have a ton of scenes just like you mentioned that illustrate it. There were many times when he came to her office or sought her out on the balcony when he didn't have to and never seemed to be in a hurry to talk about work. Often on the balcony they just looked at the ocean or sky for a moment and drifted into casual conversation as two friends do. Even when it was work related, like in The Tower, he still made it personal. Why did he say what he did about getting the girl and then take it back? Not something you'd make part of a report to your boss. I can see it now, you come back from a road trip and tell your boss you accomplished the goals you had been given and then, oh BTW, I got a date with this really cute guy. WTF? TMI, or what?

You mentioned Misbegotten. What exactly was John's purpose for coming to tell her about how pissed he was at Woolsey? Was he really asking permission to knock him in the head or was he just letting off steam to a friend? Maybe he wanted her to know that he stood up for her. How cute is that?

Joe and Torri did indeed seem comfortable with each other. Knowing what we do about how they argued politics, it's no surprise. They are both well informed, intelligent people with diametrically opposing views who could "argue" passionately and then be completely professional when doing a scene together. But we know that some of that fire stayed in their eyes and voila, you got Sparky.

No, he never sat on Sam's desk. He leaned against it I think once and he sat in those big new comfy chairs they had. It also makes me want to kick something when I read fics that have John calling her by her first name. Not gonna happen. One does not call one's CO in the military by their first name in uniform while on duty.

Or checking on her. He was always checking on her. BIS, he checks on her. Progeny, he checks on her. The Real World, he checks on her. From a work perspective, you can say he's making sure the mental health of the boss lady is okay, but John's so casual it never comes across that way. And he as much admits he doesn't feel that way--in Sateda, in the dining room scene, where he essentially tells Teyla he considers all of them family. She's he's family. He's looking out for her.

I think this is so true. I don't know that I ever really thought about it, but it might be what was missing from the later seasons. I never felt the same emotional draw to them.

I'm gonna have to write a scene for my fic that has Shep sprawled over Lizzies desk!!

I mentioned in said LJ post above--it would be fun to see what the others in the control room thought about John plopping down on Liz's desk--considering it was pretty much in full sight of them. I mean, could you imagine what Chuck thought?

"Colonel Sheppard is sitting on her desk. @___@"

Anyone want to write fanfic on that?

[ShipperWriter]

Well aren't you just the little multi-tasker today?

Why yes. Yes, I am. *gobbles down cookie*

Now *flexes knuckles* time to actually get involved in this discussion.

You know I got the idea for this post from you. Thanks for adding more.

So true. For once they SHOWED us that John was comfortable around her instead of TELLING us. We have a ton of scenes just like you mentioned that illustrate it. There were many times when he came to her office or sought her out on the balcony when he didn't have to and never seemed to be in a hurry to talk about work. Often on the balcony they just looked at the ocean or sky for a moment and drifted into casual conversation as two friends do. Even when it was work related, like in The Tower, he still made it personal. Why did he say what he did about getting the girl and then take it back? Not something you'd make part of a report to your boss. I can see it now, you come back from a road trip and tell your boss you accomplished the goals you had been given and then, oh BTW, I got a date with this really cute guy. WTF? TMI, or what?

You mentioned Misbegotten. What exactly was John's purpose for coming to tell her about how pissed he was at Woolsey? Was he really asking permission to knock him in the head or was he just letting off steam to a friend? Maybe he wanted her to know that he stood up for her. How cute is that?

Joe and Torri did indeed seem comfortable with each other. Knowing what we do about how they argued politics, it's no surprise. They are both well informed, intelligent people with diametrically opposing views who could "argue" passionately and then be completely professional when doing a scene together. But we know that some of that fire stayed in their eyes and voila, you got Sparky.

No, he never sat on Sam's desk. He leaned against it I think once and he sat in those big new comfy chairs they had. It also makes me want to kick something when I read fics that have John calling her by her first name. Not gonna happen. One does not call one's CO in the military by their first name in uniform while on duty.

Or checking on her. He was always checking on her. BIS, he checks on her. Progeny, he checks on her. The Real World, he checks on her. From a work perspective, you can say he's making sure the mental health of the boss lady is okay, but John's so casual it never comes across that way. And he as much admits he doesn't feel that way--in Sateda, in the dining room scene, where he essentially tells Teyla he considers all of them family. She's he's family. He's looking out for her.

Case in point? During TRW, he was the one who stayed by her bedside more than anyone else. He talked to her, even though she might not have heard him. When Carson thought all hope was lost and they were going to lose her, John broke quarantine to try to save her! He had no idea WTH he was doing; for all he knew, all that might happen is that he got infected by the nanites too. He was the only one who attempted anything, without any guarantee.

Would you do something that risky for someone who was just your boss?

I mentioned in said LJ post above--it would be fun to see what the others in the control room thought about John plopping down on Liz's desk--considering it was pretty much in full sight of them. I mean, could you imagine what Chuck thought?

"Colonel Sheppard is sitting on her desk. @___@"

Anyone want to write fanfic on that?

If Atlantis had Twitter, I imagine that would get retweeted very often.

[poundpuppy29]

[Brie]

Case in point? During TRW, he was the one who stayed by her bedside more than anyone else. He talked to her, even though she might not have heard him. When Carson thought all hope was lost and they were going to lose her, John broke quarantine to try to save her! He had no idea WTH he was doing; for all he knew, all that might happen is that he got infected by the nanites too. He was the only one who attempted anything, without any guarantee.

Would you do something that risky for someone who was just your boss?

Haha, another thing about TRW was how everyone talked to John as if he actually was her significant other so to speak, just the way that everyone turned to him when they had to make a decision about what to do next when it came to Elizabeth, interesting enough it was almost the exact same thing as they did in ‘Conversion’ only then it was Elizabeth that was treated as the wife/girlfriend and had to make the decisions concerning John, now I guess one could argue that they are the once in charge but since they were both medical situation the decision would technically fall on Carson and what he thinks is right. Now if you don’t want to see it as a significant other kind of way then one can at least say that the rest of them saw that John and Elizabeth cared deeply for one another and knew that if something were to happen to either of them that the other one would know what to do (and know what the person in question would really want).

And on a side note it’s the really great end scene when John walks up to her what we can think is really late at night to make sure that she is alright, and when she says that she can’t sleep he understands it and in a way he knows how she feels.
One line that always made me wonder though was:

”Well, it's good to have you back in the real world. ... At least, I think it's the real world ... I could be infected right now, which makes me the one ...”

So, if he was infected he would dream of Elizabeth (it’s a similar thing to what happened in ‘Progeny’ when John gets his mind probed and what his mind conquered up which was a whole lot of Elizabeth and even some eye!sex moments).

[Scary Kitty]

ZOMG, we've just hit 6200 pages! Way to go, Sparkies!

Or checking on her. He was always checking on her. BIS, he checks on her. Progeny, he checks on her. The Real World, he checks on her. From a work perspective, you can say he's making sure the mental health of the boss lady is okay, but John's so casual it never comes across that way. And he as much admits he doesn't feel that way--in Sateda, in the dining room scene, where he essentially tells Teyla he considers all of them family. She's he's family. He's looking out for her.

More of that "show, don't tell" way of storytelling. It totally sells the idea that they are not just coworkers, but friends. Good, close friends, and perhaps even deeper than that.

I mentioned in said LJ post above--it would be fun to see what the others in the control room thought about John plopping down on Liz's desk--considering it was pretty much in full sight of them. I mean, could you imagine what Chuck thought?

"Colonel Sheppard is sitting on her desk. @___@"

Anyone want to write fanfic on that?

Anuna's Mirroring kind of goes into that. But we seriously need a full-blown series from the perspective of the control room crew.

If Atlantis had Twitter, I imagine that would get retweeted very often.

OMG, combine that with the above idea... An entire series of Tweets/emails/chat room conversations about nothing but the control room crew's observations of John and Elizabeth in Elizabeth's office. PLOT BUNNY ON THE LOOSE!!!

Case in point? During TRW, he was the one who stayed by her bedside more than anyone else. He talked to her, even though she might not have heard him. When Carson thought all hope was lost and they were going to lose her, John broke quarantine to try to save her! He had no idea WTH he was doing; for all he knew, all that might happen is that he got infected by the nanites too. He was the only one who attempted anything, without any guarantee.

Would you do something that risky for someone who was just your boss?

In a sense, I see the TRW bit as a mirror to how Elizabeth was the only one who kept visiting John while he was turning into Bug!Shep in Conversion. It's totally him. He's always thinking about her and her well-being first, before anyone else.

[Madness reigns]

This started out as part of the challenge on the Art-for-All thread - had nothing to do with Sparky originally but this seemed to fit better I thought .......

[ShipperWriter]

ZOMG, we've just hit 6200 pages! Way to go, Sparkies!

Whoo hoo! We rock.

More of that "show, don't tell" way of storytelling. It totally sells the idea that they are not just coworkers, but friends. Good, close friends, and perhaps even deeper than that.

Anuna's Mirroring kind of goes into that. But we seriously need a full-blown series from the perspective of the control room crew.

OMG, combine that with the above idea... An entire series of Tweets/emails/chat room conversations about nothing but the control room crew's observations of John and Elizabeth in Elizabeth's office. PLOT BUNNY ON THE LOOSE!!!

*hides supply of carrots*

In a sense, I see the TRW bit as a mirror to how Elizabeth was the only one who kept visiting John while he was turning into Bug!Shep in Conversion. It's totally him. He's always thinking about her and her well-being first, before anyone else.

Yes. Totally. Which I said was her best moment in S2 on the nomination thread for the S2 polls.

[ShipperWriter]

This started out as part of the challenge on the Art-for-All thread - had nothing to do with Sparky originally but this seemed to fit better I thought .......

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...MRsparkyft.jpg

Awwwwwww! *romantic fangirl squee* That is so sweet!

And I finished my "Evolution of Elizabeth" sig. *snicker* Not as good, but it's something I've been wanting to do for a while.

[Brie]

Awwwwwww! *romantic fangirl squee* That is so sweet!

And I finished my "Evolution of Elizabeth" sig. *snicker* Not as good, but it's something I've been wanting to do for a while.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...ethWeirsig.jpg

Beautiful artwork SW, the John one as well.

[Brie]

Today it as exactly 8 years ago (July 16, 2004) that the Atlantis expedition invited us to join their adventures in the Pegasus galaxy, it’s really hard to believe because sometimes it feels like only yesterday.

[TheLadyMore]

I miss SGA -sniffs- I miss my Sparky