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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by gateraid View Post
    The "we don't leave people behind" thing is rather problematic for them. The time to have the conversation would have been at the end of Lifeline. Carter (or better yet, Landry, even if it were only her relaying the message) could have poo-pooed the idea then. Leaving it a few weeks makes it seem like Sheppard was only going through the motions. He had all that time before Carter took command - why didn't he do something then? Why did he listen to the IOA?? That seemed incredibly OOC to me, especially when he argued so vehemently for a rescue in Rising. It didn't help that the Reunion scene was a poor imitation of that Rising scene either.

    All of that could have been helped by altering the timeline somewhat. Had it been hours (or even days) until then next episode it wouldn't have made it seem like "oh yeah, I was gonna rescue Weir but I haven't gotten around to it yet". If they didn't want Carter to be the one to rule out a rescue, they could have had Landry do it and still had Carter smelling of rainbows
    Preach it, Brother!


    Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
    So the principal just called. Graduation is postponed until tomorrow evening.

    Which means:

    http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...NTIS_party.gif

    And, just to torture myself, I rewatched the ending of "Lifeline" about four times. JoeF's voice cracks.

    http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/.../shep_cry2.gif[
    It does, really? I will have to go and loop that a couple hundred times check on that.

    Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
    I've never heard the convos in "Rising" and "Reunion" compared before, but they are similar, good point. Except that in "Rising", John was this immature, reckless major who was suddenly the ranking military officer and tried pulling it over Elizabeth's authority. In "Reunion", he had grown. Granted, I'm head-scratching at the "why did he listen to the IOA" point too ...

    Although I imagine, in those couple of weeks when John was technically in command of Atlantis, the IOA probably had him jumping through hoops with city management stuff and barely let him breathe. He could've also waited for Carter to come and take command because, if she approved a rescue mission, she would've been the one the IOA blamed for whatever could've gone wrong.
    I don't see John as being immature. I think reckless fits but considering what he went through in Afghanistan, I wouldn't call him immature. His silliness and humor IMHO is just part of his personality but when it comes right down to it, he's very focused and mature. I think he just thought he'd be able to push back against Elizabeth like he did all his other bosses. Look at how snarky he was with Sumner. He thought Elizabeth would look at him the same way all the others did and he was willing to live up or down to her expectations. I imagine he was the most surprised person around when she started to trust him. Think about the last scene in the pilot when she told him to choose his team. Total shock on his face.


    On that note, just imagine what happy John would have been like. No danger, nothing horrible hanging over his head, no grief and loss, no guilt. Relaxed and happy John. That would have been a sight to see, and now after all that has happened I doubt it's totally achievable without Elizabeth coming back.
    sigpic

    Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
      I think what you said about John believing she's dead is perfectly reasonable. We know that John was feeling a lot of guilt in regards to her. If they hadn't cut the scene from Remnants in which Kolya taunted him about it, it would be canon. But the fact that he even had that conversation with Carter tells me that finding her was a big priority of his in those days right after she was lost. It just seems to crush him when Carter denies his request. After some time passes, he comes to terms with the fact that losing her is easier to handle than thinking about her always being tortured.

      Rodney just pissed me off big time. Especially when Carter arrived and he went all googly eyed or even before that when he actually thought he might get the job. The Rodney from TOR would have been saying that nobody could replace her. Ronon was the only one who stayed in character there, though I guess since she was John's CO, we can't expect him to be openly hostile to her.
      I still think there should've been more hostility toward Carter when she showed up as Elizabeth's official replacement. First there's their own past history of conflict, then Carter doesn't even deign to make even a general mention of Atlantis's recent losses in her "hi, I'm your new boss!" speech (because hey, in addition to Elizabeth's capture, people actually DIED during the escape from the Asurans), and the fact that the only reason she's there at all is because the military frakked up with a bogus attack plan that only stirred up the hornets' nest. For all the talk that TPTW made in Season 1 about wanting to see civilian vs. military conflict, they had a brilliant opportunity to do it here. And blew it. Again.

      Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
      Exactly. I have a fic bible folder, and if I don't consult it, I might as well not write a fic in the first place. You would think that experienced writers who have done this before would have a bit of common sense...

      Well, you would think.
      Indeed.

      Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
      I agree. It's comparable to when a loved one is very sick and close to death. You don't want them to die, but at the same time, you don't want them to suffer anymore. Sometimes you need to closure of death just so you know they're not suffering anymore.

      If I was in John's shoes, I think I would've reacted the same way. Especially when the Repli!Elizabeth is repeating it and reaffirming what she believes. God, talk about a mind game ...
      A very twisted and cruel mind game. Poor John.

      Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
      I don't know why, but part of me would love to see John beat up Rodney over that. I have no idea where that came from.
      I wanted to see someone get beat up over it. Maybe that jackass Kavanaugh in the dining hall, making some crack about how Elizabeth "had it coming," and then a food fight erupting as everyone tries to pound Kav's ass into mashed potatoes.

      Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
      Rodney thinking he was getting the job royally pissed me off. "I wrote your biography when I thought I was going to die because you're so wonderful and no one knows" changed into "Oh, sorry you're gone, let me mourn for a micro-second and then take over"? That was horrible.
      Oh gods, I know! I wanted to reach into the TV screen and strangle him for that.

      Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
      I've never heard the convos in "Rising" and "Reunion" compared before, but they are similar, good point. Except that in "Rising", John was this immature, reckless major who was suddenly the ranking military officer and tried pulling it over Elizabeth's authority. In "Reunion", he had grown. Granted, I'm head-scratching at the "why did he listen to the IOA" point too ...

      Although I imagine, in those couple of weeks when John was technically in command of Atlantis, the IOA probably had him jumping through hoops with city management stuff and barely let him breathe. He could've also waited for Carter to come and take command because, if she approved a rescue mission, she would've been the one the IOA blamed for whatever could've gone wrong.
      Seekritly plotting to stick it to the IOA and everyone else responsible for ordering the first strike that led to Elizabeth's loss in the first place. Now that's how you do revenge.

      Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
      I want to write... but can't... but really want to... but can't...
      *wibbles and hugs FH* What's wrong? Who's making our Lemming sad, I'm gonna go beat 'em up!

      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
      On that note, just imagine what happy John would have been like. No danger, nothing horrible hanging over his head, no grief and loss, no guilt. Relaxed and happy John. That would have been a sight to see, and now after all that has happened I doubt it's totally achievable without Elizabeth coming back.
      Preach it, Sistah!
      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        I want to write... but can't... but really want to... but can't...
        I know the feeling. I'm trying to find this fic I know I wrote, but it's disappeared on my hard drive. And nothing new is coming to mind, no matter how much I want it to.

        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
        Preach it, Brother!

        It does, really? I will have to go and loop that a couple hundred times check on that.
        *sends tissues*

        I don't see John as being immature. I think reckless fits but considering what he went through in Afghanistan, I wouldn't call him immature. His silliness and humor IMHO is just part of his personality but when it comes right down to it, he's very focused and mature. I think he just thought he'd be able to push back against Elizabeth like he did all his other bosses. Look at how snarky he was with Sumner. He thought Elizabeth would look at him the same way all the others did and he was willing to live up or down to her expectations. I imagine he was the most surprised person around when she started to trust him. Think about the last scene in the pilot when she told him to choose his team. Total shock on his face.
        Yeah. That's actually what I meant. Me? English language? Apparently, we're not friends anymore.

        On that note, just imagine what happy John would have been like. No danger, nothing horrible hanging over his head, no grief and loss, no guilt. Relaxed and happy John. That would have been a sight to see, and now after all that has happened I doubt it's totally achievable without Elizabeth coming back.
        Like this?
        Spoiler:


        Nothing like pushing someone over a railing to get you smiling like that.


        And I agree with you on that last sentence. John was never as happy again during S4 and S5.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
          I still think there should've been more hostility toward Carter when she showed up as Elizabeth's official replacement. First there's their own past history of conflict, then Carter doesn't even deign to make even a general mention of Atlantis's recent losses in her "hi, I'm your new boss!" speech (because hey, in addition to Elizabeth's capture, people actually DIED during the escape from the Asurans), and the fact that the only reason she's there at all is because the military frakked up with a bogus attack plan that only stirred up the hornets' nest. For all the talk that TPTW made in Season 1 about wanting to see civilian vs. military conflict, they had a brilliant opportunity to do it here. And blew it. Again.
          It was like everyone shut the book on Seasons 1-3 the past and embraced the future with open arms.

          A very twisted and cruel mind game. Poor John.
          *hugs John*

          I wanted to see someone get beat up over it. Maybe that jackass Kavanaugh in the dining hall, making some crack about how Elizabeth "had it coming," and then a food fight erupting as everyone tries to pound Kav's ass into mashed potatoes.
          ROFLMAO. Oh dear Lord ... Now that would've been awesome!

          Oh gods, I know! I wanted to reach into the TV screen and strangle him for that.
          Still do everytime I rewatch it.

          Seekritly plotting to stick it to the IOA and everyone else responsible for ordering the first strike that led to Elizabeth's loss in the first place. Now that's how you do revenge.


          I got an idea: "Shep Goes Rambo on the IOA: the webisode you didn't see".

          *wibbles and hugs FH* What's wrong? Who's making our Lemming sad, I'm gonna go beat 'em up!
          Wow. You're in a good mood today, SK ... I somehow get you'd be the one instigating the Kavanagh-whumping in the mess hall ...

          Comment


            Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
            Like this?
            http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...ideandseek.png

            Nothing like pushing someone over a railing to get you smiling like that.
            Yeah, just like that. Gee, maybe it'd be Kavanaugh that John would be pushing over that railing...

            Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
            It was like everyone shut the book on Seasons 1-3 the past and embraced the future with open arms.
            *snorts* What they failed to realize is that fans have a long memory. And hold even longer grudges.

            Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
            ROFLMAO. Oh dear Lord ... Now that would've been awesome!
            You betcha!

            Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post


            I got an idea: "Shep Goes Rambo on the IOA: the webisode you didn't see".
            OMFG YES!!!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHA! That would be brilliant!

            Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
            Wow. You're in a good mood today, SK ... I somehow get you'd be the one instigating the Kavanagh-whumping in the mess hall ...
            Nah, whatever would give you that idea?
            (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
            Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
              Yeah, just like that. Gee, maybe it'd be Kavanaugh that John would be pushing over that railing...
              Hmm. It has merits.

              *snorts* What they failed to realize is that fans have a long memory. And hold even longer grudges.
              *hides pitchfork*

              OMFG YES!!!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHA! That would be brilliant!
              Well, whenever I decide to write some crack, that is definitely getting written.

              Nah, whatever would give you that idea?
              Nothing whatsoever.

              Comment


                ETA: ZOMG, we've got 14 guests in the thread! Hai lurkers! *waves*

                Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                Hmm. It has merits.
                In-very-deed.

                Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                *hides pitchfork*
                *shoves unlit torches under the bed*

                Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                Well, whenever I decide to write some crack, that is definitely getting written.
                Hmm, maybe you could have that bit with Kav getting pounded in a food fight for mouthing off about Lizzeh as the teaser scene before getting to the main event.

                Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                Nothing whatsoever.
                Suuuure. Whatever you say.
                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                  ETA: ZOMG, we've got 14 guests in the thread! Hai lurkers! *waves*
                  Hi, everybody! Come on out and say hi! We're very nice people!

                  *shoves unlit torches under the bed*
                  *throws gasoline cannisters in the garage*

                  Hmm, maybe you could have that bit with Kav getting pounded in a food fight for mouthing off about Lizzeh as the teaser scene before getting to the main event.
                  Ooh. I like that. I like that a lot.

                  *fics bunnies hop up and down and squee in delight*

                  They enjoy writing violence way too much.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                    Hi, everybody! Come on out and say hi! We're very nice people!
                    Awww, we're down to five guests now. You think we chased 'em away?

                    Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                    *throws gasoline cannisters in the garage*
                    *hides coolers of beer in the broom closet*

                    Hey, starting a revolution is thirsty work.

                    Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                    Ooh. I like that. I like that a lot.

                    *fics bunnies hop up and down and squee in delight*

                    They enjoy writing violence way too much.
                    Well, I guess we'd best keep them entertained, eh?
                    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                      *wibbles and hugs FH* What's wrong? Who's making our Lemming sad, I'm gonna go beat 'em up!
                      Let's see:

                      1) my 3D-teacher who suddenly changed the deadline for our exams and thus threw all of our schedules upside down and in complete disarray (sp?) - chaos ensues and stresslevels are off the chart

                      This puts my muse on edge.

                      2) I'm drowning in work at work that isn't mine, while my work piles up to the ceiling. And thus someone's going to have to complain about it next week that I'm not getting my work done.

                      This my muse tries to fix by giving my ideas to write... however when I point her in the direction of the fic in progress she's suddenly AWOL.

                      3) The distinct lack of fandom's attention to the female characters (my ever returning fandom petpeeve).

                      My muse again pushes me towards fanfic to write but as above... As soon as I open my fic, muse is nowhere in sight.

                      4) I have a cousin for whom I need to design a monopoly-game board for her exam assignment for her Dutch class. I promised another friend to read her thesis (something to do with Fanfiction and how it relates to literature or something like it) and I have artwork to touch-up and post for the reverse-bang this year for which I still need to preview the fic that was written with my artwork as inspiration.

                      This sends both me and my muse's stress-levels through the roof... cause no time to do so.

                      5) Also, I won't make it to the post-a-thon on Sunday for obvious reasons (see point 1 & 4).

                      6) ... and I miss Kate.

                      Blah... I feel a bit like this brave knight here
                      It seems photobucket is currently on the fritz, feeling much like I do and not showing pictures - damn it!
                      Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                      Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                        Awww, we're down to five guests now. You think we chased 'em away?
                        We? No. You? Yes.

                        *hides coolers of beer in the broom closet*

                        Hey, starting a revolution is thirsty work.
                        True, dat.

                        Well, I guess we'd best keep them entertained, eh?
                        They have too much work to do to be entertained right now! *shoos fic bunnies with broom*

                        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                        Let's see:

                        1) my 3D-teacher who suddenly changed the deadline for our exams and thus threw all of our schedules upside down and in complete disarray (sp?) - chaos ensues and stresslevels are off the chart

                        This puts my muse on edge.

                        2) I'm drowning in work at work that isn't mine, while my work piles up to the ceiling. And thus someone's going to have to complain about it next week that I'm not getting my work done.

                        This my muse tries to fix by giving my ideas to write... however when I point her in the direction of the fic in progress she's suddenly AWOL.

                        3) The distinct lack of fandom's attention to the female characters (my ever returning fandom petpeeve).

                        My muse again pushes me towards fanfic to write but as above... As soon as I open my fic, muse is nowhere in sight.

                        4) I have a cousin for whom I need to design a monopoly-game board for her exam assignment for her Dutch class. I promised another friend to read her thesis (something to do with Fanfiction and how it relates to literature or something like it) and I have artwork to touch-up and post for the reverse-bang this year for which I still need to preview the fic that was written with my artwork as inspiration.

                        This sends both me and my muse's stress-levels through the roof... cause no time to do so.

                        5) Also, I won't make it to the post-a-thon on Sunday for obvious reasons (see point 1 & 4).

                        6) ... and I miss Kate.


                        Sorry, hon ... *hugs*

                        That's a lot to deal with at one time. Wish I could make all the problems go away. *sends more sugar for the Lemming*

                        Blah... I feel a bit like this brave knight here
                        It seems photobucket is currently on the fritz, feeling much like I do and not showing pictures - damn it!
                        I can see it just fine. I think we all feel like that knight on occasion.

                        Comment


                          And I'm the only one here at the moment. That's depressing.

                          *lurks and writes fic*

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                            I can see it just fine. I think we all feel like that knight on occasion.
                            Odd! Anyway... I want to be the dragon instead of the knight if at all possible. Would make tackling my life right now a wee bit easier.
                            Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                            Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                              Odd! Anyway... I want to be the dragon instead of the knight if at all possible. Would make tackling my life right now a wee bit easier.
                              Heh. Think of how many problems would be solved if we were fire breathing dragons.

                              For example: Kavanaugh-kabob.

                              Anyhow. I randomly picked an episode to watch and went with "Runner" since I'd never seen it before (). Going back to our discussion about John and his "no one left behind" stance, I thought it was interesting how gung-ho he was on finding Ford and bringing him home, and Caldwell basically ripped him a new one. Granted, they had proof that Ford was there, ie bullet ridden Wraith, but for having only been on Atlantis together for one year, and to be that determined ... then to turn around two years later, with Elizabeth becoming MIA, and dropping it?

                              Yeah. I don't know. It's giving me a headache just thinking about it!

                              But I found some nice Sparky shots at the end of the eppy. Here's one:
                              Spoiler:

                              Comment


                                I felt like it was time to repost this:

                                Comment

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