Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[ShipperWriter]

Oh yes, it's always fun to see wet!Shep. The Storm/The Eye, Submersion, even The Shrine. Very yummy.

Yeah, I was about to mention that Lizzeh still needs the shadows under her feet.

Ergo, the sarcasm. If you cut it off at the knees, you don't notice it.

Anyhow, I think it's time for this shipper to get some sleep. Got a lot to do tomorrow!

Night, everybody!!!

[gateraid]

I may have broken the multi-quote with this one

Oh yeah,

Spoiler:

they covered up Jane Leeves RL pregnancy by saying Daphne had a weight problem. It was quite amusing in a winkwinknudgenudge sort of way.

Spoiler:

That's the way to do it, but I guess it'd only work on that sort of show. Do you remember the ep where Niles has a loan car, and Frasier and his old man spot him? A chase ensues, Niles crashes, then he rings them and asks his old man (I can't remember his name, but it'll come to me) to drive the loan car away so nobody sees him. I was watching that with my old man. We both laughed and agreed that my sister was Niles in that scene

I hadn't really thought about that, sorry FH, but you're right. I remember there was a big buildup to S3 with TPTB saying that Teyla was going to fly a hive ship. This had her fans speculating that she was actually going to have her own ship and at last a big role, but you see how that went. I guess her parts in The Ark and Submersion were supposed to suffice. Much like Sheppard in most of S5, she became a supporting character even before the pregnancy. With eps like The Ark and Vengeance, she became the damsel in distress, and most of S3 ended up being the McShep show. I'm not complaining about that because I loved the boys together in a purely platonic nonslashy kind of way.

I didn't read about that buildup, but it was before my time here. I would have been quite disappointed if I had my hopes pinned on that, given how it turned out.

I was fully expecting her to have problems with Rodney, but it never came about. I fully expected her to clash on occasion with Shep, again nothing. In fact, JF said that they had wanted to do that but she was just too nice and his character couldn't be seen being mean to her, or some such. And in reality, since she outranked him, Shep had to do what she told him. Then in S&R when he stood up to her, she totally backed down and let him do whatever he wanted. When Elizabeth did that, she was accused of being weak and having a silly schoolgirl crush, so you just can't win with some people. But you're right, there was no discernible difference between Carter and Weir, and to some extent Woolsey. You'd never have guessed this was the same Carter from SG-1.

I thought she'd be a little more like she was in The Pegasus Project, which was slightly more authorative and 'manage' Rodney a bit more. And the way they made such a big deal about her being in the military and able to overrule Shep, well, it turned out she argued more with Dr Lee back when she was on SG-1. The S & R scene was another wuh-huh moment - he respected her more than any of his previous CO's? Based on what exactly? Because she agreed with everything he said? Because she deferred to him in the field (have a look at Reunion if you don't believe me - when the two groups meet up, he's the one issuing the orders because he's the lead character) the same way Weir did?

They went for a bit of stunt casting by bringing AT on board and it backfired big time. They were hoping to up ratings and as usual, thought the SGA fans would watch anything with the SG-1 cast. I have never heard of showrunners who were so out of touch with the fans. They claimed to read GW. They knew the general opinion. Why not go with it?

In terms of GW, they probably view it the same way I do (I'm talking about the gen threads), which is to look at those opinions as only the opinions of posters, not of fandom as a whole

Woolsey got quite a bit of character growth also, and a lot of viewers actually changed their opinion of him. Sam never had one minute of anything personal that I recall after the first ep she was in yet they had everybody acting like she was their best friend and talking about how wonderful she was. That didn't set well with me, especially when we saw her eating with the team. I was very annoyed by that.

I changed my opinion of Woolsey, but I never forgot that he threatened to lock Hammond away in Heroes. I also got a bit annoyed at some of the character stuff he was given - the grandad story, the yorkie, Anna Galvin, the comedic bits......And yeah, some of the s4 "lets all eat together because we're all mates" was a bit annoying too

A lot of their decisions were based on RL events, which I guess is understandable when you are dealing with actors and their lives. But they just worked it out so awkwardly. They originally said Weir and Sheppard would be a bit antagonistic, but then backed off when they saw how well they worked together. At least they had the good sense to go with that, but it's unfortunate they didn't take it to the logical conclusion.

RL did twist their hand at times, but often they weren't imaginative enough. Look at TLM. They created the Woolsey-as-leader as a bit of an aside, but it turned out to be a masterstroke, given how future!Woolsey kept a much harder line than s5 Woolsey did. It was easy to think that he'd take that route, but they backed off on that approach

The only one who really reacted to the change in command in a way that I felt was the most believable was Ronan and I personally really liked that.

I agree his reaction was natural, but it seemed contrived to end up with "I'm not Dr Weir". It would've been nice if the justification for that arguement wasn't "I'm just following orders"

Dropping off my latest wallpaper. I've been doing tutorials on Photoshop Elements. I hope the hard work shows with a few new skillz. The background is a piece of art I saw in the Washington Post. The text is from an Adele song. Can you find the title?

Spoiler:

Love it. The song is Adele's Set Fire to Lorraine, no?

The irony of that cover is that they basically pasted Weir's head onto a shot of Teyla's body in battle gear. The watch on "Weir's" hand is the big clue; that's Teyla's watch, not Weir's. Clearly, whoever did that cover obviously thought Weir was a more important character than Teyla in order to place Weir so prominently. That's not the only "mistake," either: Sheppard's body is also flipped; his hair is pointing the wrong way (it looks like they did the same with Teyla). And is it just me, or does Rodney's head look too big for his body?

You have just blown my mind. I never noticed the Weir/Teyla switcharoo. I was more surprised at the time by Weir having a gun, and the image that projected

Well, in all fairness, Jack had been the leader of SG-1 for 7 years. When he got Hammond's job in S8, I didn't really expect them to make him a background character.

Oh, no, neither did I. RDA was the lead of the show after all. It almost seemed like he got more screentime (although probably less shooting time) in s8 than s7. I do recall watching an extra features where RDA was surprised by how much he was featured in the early s8 eps.

*snorts* I keep thinking that whoever did that cover art must have also been the same person responsible for the infamous "floating" promo pics from Season 5.

Interestingly I found these whilst perusing the interweb

Spoiler:

version1



Version2



Looks as though it wasn't the cast they photoshoped but the floor!
Why they couldn't have just left them well alone I will never know!

I guess that Fantastic Four reference finally paid off - they can fly!!!!

Which was utterly stupid, IMO. They should've had all the military in BDUs from the beginning. TPTW made such a fuss about how there was going to be conflict between the civilian and military divisions via Weir and Sheppard, putting them in different uniforms would've been a great visual reinforcement of that. But what do I know, I just took a few costume design classes while getting my bachelors' degree in Theatre.

Yes, yes, YES! At the very least, different uniforms is a visual cue that they're not all there for the same reason

I wouldn't have minded seeing Shep in more water. Heh heh heh.



Case in point:



Yep. They're in conflict.

PS -- check out my lovely PhotoShopping job!!! *smirk*

Interesting, you can still see the tape on the ground. I'm surprised they released that

[Southern Red]

All right. Doing a little better. Got the Clone tool down.

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/...arkycopy-1.jpg

Good job. The best way to proceed is to practice one new skill at a time until you have it down. You are learning fast, Grasshopper. Oh, and you also found the not so well hidden title of the song in my wallie.

Note to gateraid, it's "Someone Like You." Look on the lower left side.

[gateraid]

Sadly, I recognised the lyrics.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Ergo, the sarcasm. If you cut it off at the knees, you don't notice it.

I may have broken the multi-quote with this one

I'm kinda surprised no one has done that before, frankly.

I thought she'd be a little more like she was in The Pegasus Project, which was slightly more authorative and 'manage' Rodney a bit more. And the way they made such a big deal about her being in the military and able to overrule Shep, well, it turned out she argued more with Dr Lee back when she was on SG-1. The S & R scene was another wuh-huh moment - he respected her more than any of his previous CO's? Based on what exactly? Because she agreed with everything he said? Because she deferred to him in the field (have a look at Reunion if you don't believe me - when the two groups meet up, he's the one issuing the orders because he's the lead character) the same way Weir did?

I know, right? The whole thing ended up being a total anticlimax after the buildup we'd been fed.

In terms of GW, they probably view it the same way I do (I'm talking about the gen threads), which is to look at those opinions as only the opinions of posters, not of fandom as a whole

True. Though with GW supposedly being the biggest Stargate fan site/forum out there at the time, one could potentially see it as a microcosm of fandom as a whole. *shrugs*

I changed my opinion of Woolsey, but I never forgot that he threatened to lock Hammond away in Heroes. I also got a bit annoyed at some of the character stuff he was given - the grandad story, the yorkie, Anna Galvin, the comedic bits......And yeah, some of the s4 "lets all eat together because we're all mates" was a bit annoying too

Yeah, that irritated me as well. Why couldn't they have given some of that level of character stuff to Weir? My guess is that they gave it to Woolsey at least partly in response to criticism that they hadn't done that for Weir.

RL did twist their hand at times, but often they weren't imaginative enough. Look at TLM. They created the Woolsey-as-leader as a bit of an aside, but it turned out to be a masterstroke, given how future!Woolsey kept a much harder line than s5 Woolsey did. It was easy to think that he'd take that route, but they backed off on that approach

Masterstroke, indeed. That was, in my opinion, one of the best twists to come out of S4-5. And it was an accident. Kinda like Sparky.

You have just blown my mind. I never noticed the Weir/Teyla switcharoo. I was more surprised at the time by Weir having a gun, and the image that projected

*bows*

Yes, yes, YES! At the very least, different uniforms is a visual cue that they're not all there for the same reason

Precisely.

[Southern Red]

True. Though with GW supposedly being the biggest Stargate fan site/forum out there at the time, one could potentially see it as a microcosm of fandom as a whole. *shrugs*

I have some thoughts about that. This is the only fandom I have ever posted in or gotten involved with in any way, but I have lurked on several other fan sites for shows I like. Bones and Castle to name just two. I am continually amazed by how fandom thinks differently than Mr. SR and I do. And since these two shows in particular often come up any time I've discussed TV shows with friends or family, I know I'm not alone in my opinion. So why does a fandom get so insanely nitpicky?

Spoiler:

I was shocked that a good number of fans think Castle has lost a lot of its excitement this season, and they think the episodes haven't been as good. ??? And that the will they/won't they has gone on too long. ??? Long enough maybe, but not too long IMHO. Granted I was mad at Bones at the end of last season, but I have come around and am enjoying it again. I never have thought they had chemistry on the order of Sparky, but they are cute and fun to watch once again. So why get all mad and deprive yourself of enjoyment of something just a short time ago you were all gung ho for? But then I never did understand those who stopped watching SGA.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but what I am ranting about is how fandom continues to surprise and shock me. So SGA is not the only show that people get from various universes.

All that to say, I guess technically fandom is a microcosm, but I think it's a small % of the whole, and because of the nature of the most passionate fans, TPTB are smart not to cater to them. They do need, however, to do focus groups from all aspects of the viewing public.

[Pocus]

SR I am with you. Atlantis is the only fandom I have ever stepped into. I peeked at Harry Potter and Moonlight (with Alex O) and just never felt the dedication to detail that many in those fandoms do. They are dedicated to the to details they are interested in and focus on what "they" want to see. I witness that with the Atlantis fandom as well.

I only started reading the forum in Season 2 because I read something somewhere where it stated that Teyla was Sheppard's love interest and my heart skipped a beat. I went looking to see if anyone else saw what I saw with Sheppard and Weir and, Looky.....I found this place. I also found the thunk and whump threads and these threads are where I stay. I don't want to focus on the details of the entire show. I have my own ideas about the show and for the most part I keep them to myself and play on here.

When I did venture into other places all I felt was negative stuff. No one was happy with what others where happy with. Criticism of the writers, the actors, the characters, the other fans were all I read. I am on the forums for fun and escape. I will stay in my happy playgrounds.

It is the same with the other fandoms I peeked into. Mostly negative until you went into places with people who all had the same ideas. They were great fun.

My thought is that if the writers of shows look into the general threads they will just read what a bad show they are making and see the fighting going on over how everyone thinks they can make the show perfect. If they go into the specialized, focused threads (like shipping or thunking) they will see how one group thinks things are perfect in their world OR how they think things should be done to make their character or ship the way it should be.

I have absolutely no desire to step into another fandom ever again. I love H50, but won't even peek into the forums for those. Same for Dr. Who, White Collar, Castle or a few others. I am happy where I am and plan on staying for a long time. When GW disappears, then so will I.

[ShipperWriter]

Good afternoon, everybody!

Just dropping in between classes to say hi very quickly! Brought my laptop to work and have had some lulls during class where student is taking a test, etc, so I have a little time to myself! Fic is taking an interesting turn -- I might as well burn the outline paper right now. Darn fic bunnies -- I wish they would let me know when they're planning on hijacking my stories.

Be back later! Possibly with new fic!

*zips out and runs into door*

[Southern Red]

SR I am with you. Atlantis is the only fandom I have ever stepped into. I peeked at Harry Potter and Moonlight (with Alex O) and just never felt the dedication to detail that many in those fandoms do. They are dedicated to the to details they are interested in and focus on what "they" want to see. I witness that with the Atlantis fandom as well.

I only started reading the forum in Season 2 because I read something somewhere where it stated that Teyla was Sheppard's love interest and my heart skipped a beat. I went looking to see if anyone else saw what I saw with Sheppard and Weir and, Looky.....I found this place. I also found the thunk and whump threads and these threads are where I stay. I don't want to focus on the details of the entire show. I have my own ideas about the show and for the most part I keep them to myself and play on here.

When I did venture into other places all I felt was negative stuff. No one was happy with what others where happy with. Criticism of the writers, the actors, the characters, the other fans were all I read. I am on the forums for fun and escape. I will stay in my happy playgrounds.

It is the same with the other fandoms I peeked into. Mostly negative until you went into places with people who all had the same ideas. They were great fun.

My thought is that if the writers of shows look into the general threads they will just read what a bad show they are making and see the fighting going on over how everyone thinks they can make the show perfect. If they go into the specialized, focused threads (like shipping or thunking) they will see how one group thinks things are perfect in their world OR how they think things should be done to make their character or ship the way it should be.

I have absolutely no desire to step into another fandom ever again. I love H50, but won't even peek into the forums for those. Same for Dr. Who, White Collar, Castle or a few others. I am happy where I am and plan on staying for a long time. When GW disappears, then so will I.

Thanks for completing my thought. I thought I was alone in my solo fandom experience. I'm glad there is at least one more.

I've seen what you mentioned about criticism of the shows also. Every fandom seems to dislike the writers/producers and likes to bad mouth them no matter what they do. The very people who created the show and characters you loved in the beginning are now suddenly unable to do anything right? I know we had a lot of that with SGA and the change in showrunners did cause a lot of problems in S4-5, but it has been amusing and puzzling to see how many different opinions there are about the same subjects.

If I could turn back time, I would stay out of even the SGA fandom and would dream my Sparky dreams in ignorance. Because then I would have been left thinking they didn't get together because she left the show, not for any other reason. And the Shep/Teyla pairing would never have entered my mind either. I too was shocked to learn about that when I first came online. Then I decided it was a red herring and still am not 100% sure it wasn't. I wouldn't have been more surprised than if I had gone on a Bones site and been told they intended to get Booth together with Cam or any other number of combinations from other shows. But no matter how many times I watch SGA or how I try to imagine the possibility of there being no feelings between John and Elizabeth, I just can't make myself
see it.

[Scary Kitty]

The first (and last) online fandom I was ever directly involved with prior to SGA was Harry Potter, and I got out of that after a couple of years mainly because my "safe place" with other people who held the same views I did imploded due to a pretty stupid disagreement between the mods; that was more or less around the time that Order of the Phoenix was published. SGA was the first fandom after that where I really liked the show enough to want to try getting into a fandom again. And I was just as shocked as many of you were by some of the counter-intuitive views going around, especially those that were anti-Sparky. I'm sure I've mentioned a few times before that I had actually been watching SG-1 and Atlantis in syndication for the first couple of years because I didn't have cable then, so I was really way behind the curve when I finally did join fandom in the summer before Season 4 started airing on SciFi! John/Elizabeth just seemed so logical to my normally canonist mind that I was really flabbergasted to learn that it wasn't originally "the plan."

If I could turn back time, I would stay out of even the SGA fandom and would dream my Sparky dreams in ignorance. Because then I would have been left thinking they didn't get together because she left the show, not for any other reason. And the Shep/Teyla pairing would never have entered my mind either. I too was shocked to learn about that when I first came online. Then I decided it was a red herring and still am not 100% sure it wasn't. I wouldn't have been more surprised than if I had gone on a Bones site and been told they intended to get Booth together with Cam or any other number of combinations from other shows. But no matter how many times I watch SGA or how I try to imagine the possibility of there being no feelings between John and Elizabeth, I just can't make myself
see it.

I feel the same way, sometimes. That maybe it just would've been better if I'd never gotten into fandom, never come to GW, etc. But then I wouldn't have met any of you and had all the fun we've had together.

[Southern Red]

The first (and last) online fandom I was ever directly involved with prior to SGA was Harry Potter, and I got out of that after a couple of years mainly because my "safe place" with other people who held the same views I did imploded due to a pretty stupid disagreement between the mods; that was more or less around the time that Order of the Phoenix was published. SGA was the first fandom after that where I really liked the show enough to want to try getting into a fandom again. And I was just as shocked as many of you were by some of the counter-intuitive views going around, especially those that were anti-Sparky. I'm sure I've mentioned a few times before that I had actually been watching SG-1 and Atlantis in syndication for the first couple of years because I didn't have cable then, so I was really way behind the curve when I finally did join fandom in the summer before Season 4 started airing on SciFi! John/Elizabeth just seemed so logical to my normally canonist mind that I was really flabbergasted to learn that it wasn't originally "the plan."



I feel the same way, sometimes. That maybe it just would've been better if I'd never gotten into fandom, never come to GW, etc. But then I wouldn't have met any of you and had all the fun we've had together.

That's the whole reason I stay around. I wouldn't trade all the fun and friends I've met here for anything. Some of the most truly open minds I've ever met have been found right here in the Sparky thread.

[Falcon Horus]

Yellow!! *waves* Back from green Ireland!

Had fun. Saw the most beautiful coasts you can imagine. Got sick. Took lots of pictures and generally enjoyed myself being away from daily life.

And now I'm back...

[ShipperWriter]

Yellow!! *waves* Back from green Ireland!

Had fun. Saw the most beautiful coasts you can imagine. Got sick. Took lots of pictures and generally enjoyed myself being away from daily life.

And now I'm back...

Oh, I would love to visit! I'd love to visit anywhere in Europe, really ...

Glad you enjoyed yourself, and welcome back!!!

Love your avatar. *smirk*

[Falcon Horus]

Glad you enjoyed yourself, and welcome back!!!

Thx!

Love your avatar. *smirk*

I was like 20 minutes driving away from Cobh this morning, the last place where the Titanic halted before setting off into the ocean. Alas, didn't have time. Though I did pick up my Titanic souvenirs nonetheless.

[Southern Red]

Thx!



I was like 20 minutes driving away from Cobh this morning, the last place where the Titanic halted before setting off into the ocean. Alas, didn't have time. Though I did pick up my Titanic souvenirs nonetheless.

Welcome back. Ireland is on my wish list. *iz jealous*