Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good night and pleasant Sparky dreams to Brie and ShipperWriter (and anyone else heading off to bed)!

Hey, quick question: when we were talking about books before, what was the opinion on "Casualties of War"? Cause just from the excerpt, it seems like a Sparky friendly book ...

Just wonderin.

And why in the world are some people trying to sell "Mirror, Mirror" online for $150?!?!?!?!

Casualties of War = AWESOME.

Selling Mirror, Mirror for $150? I didn't think that one was out of print, but I guess it is.

It would have made more sense to leave one of the Deadalus senior officers there, although I guess it shows just how much they valued Teyla to leave her in charge for three weeks (possibly six, if they left when the Deadalus did).

And perhaps how much they did not trust anyone from Earth after Everett tried to usurp leadership from Weir.

IMO they wrote Weir the same way they wrote Carter sometimes - genderless. As in, you could replace her with a man with little alteration of the script. That said, Torri feminised the role with all her nuances.

That office scene may as well have included an arrow above her head, or an alarm saying "doom approaching". Any time I've ever seen a character mention leaving, they walk in front of the proverbial bus. And generally, if they're not a lead and they get an entire episode devoted to them (Janet), it's never a good sign when they head out into a dangerous situation.

We always did think that Carter on SGA was basically given Weir's lines.

True on both counts. I wonder what the sleeping arrangements were like at the camp?

The Trinity situation was exactly how I thought the civilian/military thing would work, especially given her background. Trinity was her being forced into a position that she wasn't of her choosing so that she could manage it and control it, rather than leaving it to Caldwell.

What made me smirk about FS was that they didn't just cut Weir out of the loop, they cut Sheppard out too. They weren't even aware of what images the Deadalus had been getting under Ellis produced them. Surely they should have been kept informed simply on the basis of Atlantis being the likely first target of any attack?

I know, right? What daftie at the IOA managed to pull that one off? Which begs the question, what did Woolsey know and when did he know it?

I worded that badly, I meant Elizabeth and Teyla seemed to get closer after all their face time in The Gift. I think LFP was the John/Teyla equivalent of First Strike. Teyla was so......disillusioned with him in that ep.

*snickers*

Oh, IDK, 'classic' horror movies are a bit more mainstream.

Eh, depends on how you look at it.

And they could have left the baby with Katie Brown when they were off-world, coz she'd still be around.

Nah, she could've borrowed Ronon's pimp!coat while she was pregnant, then they could've hidden the whole thing.

Ohhhh, that's bad! So bad, it's good.

Just a quick post to say I read your post-a-thon comments and as usual, they were hilarious. I'm very sorry to have missed it.

Now it's time to loosen my belt and put my feet up. See everyone tomorrow.

Mmm, sounds like me after brunch today. Yum.

[gateraid]

And perhaps how much they did not trust anyone from Earth after Everett tried to usurp leadership from Weir.

And maybe they were just too tight to hire another actor I guess Ford was gone, so the next highest ranking expedition member would've been a fairly low ranked officer, or they could've gone with a Deadalus officer who wasn't familiar with Atlantis at all. Teyla was a pretty safe pair of hands, regardless of her origins

We always did think that Carter on SGA was basically given Weir's lines.

But Carter got the clubbing jacket because she was their favourite

I know, right? What daftie at the IOA managed to pull that one off? Which begs the question, what did Woolsey know and when did he know it?

Woolsey: I did not have sexual relations with that woman

Nope, that's not it. Take two:

Woolsey: I can neither confirm nor deny that I was privy to any intelligence information, or what time I knew said information, if indeed I knew it.

Ohhhh, that's bad! So bad, it's good.

That's kinda the reason I wasn't keen on the whole 'hidden pregnancy' scenario, even though it could have worked in the right circumstances. I could imagine TPTW coming up with something like this:

Sheppard: Teyla's running late, again. She seems to be making a habit of it

Ronon: Yeah, she's not feeling well

Sheppard: What, throwing up again? Maybe I should take her off the team. She's been getting a bit out of shape lately too

Ronon: Don't do that. I didn't want to say anything, but she's taken the kidnapping of the Athosians pretty hard. She's been hitting the bottle

Sheppard: You don't say? So that's where she is now? Throwing up?

Ronon: *nods* Don't say anything though, she's in a bad place right now

Sheppard: All right, I'll let it slide for a while, see how it plays out.

Teyla strolls into the room

Teyla: *burps loadly* Heavens, my head is killing me today. What are you ladies gossiping about? Haven't we got a mission to go on?


I know it wouldn't have ended up like that, but it would've been something equally implausible

[Southern Red]

And maybe they were just too tight to hire another actor I guess Ford was gone, so the next highest ranking expedition member would've been a fairly low ranked officer, or they could've gone with a Deadalus officer who wasn't familiar with Atlantis at all. Teyla was a pretty safe pair of hands, regardless of her origins

Or they could have made up an invisible "Major Whozit". Hey, it worked with Kanaan. Sort of.

That's kinda the reason I wasn't keen on the whole 'hidden pregnancy' scenario, even though it could have worked in the right circumstances. I could imagine TPTW coming up with something like this:

Sheppard: Teyla's running late, again. She seems to be making a habit of it

Ronon: Yeah, she's not feeling well

Sheppard: What, throwing up again? Maybe I should take her off the team. She's been getting a bit out of shape lately too

Ronon: Don't do that. I didn't want to say anything, but she's taken the kidnapping of the Athosians pretty hard. She's been hitting the bottle

Sheppard: You don't say? So that's where she is now? Throwing up?

Ronon: *nods* Don't say anything though, she's in a bad place right now

Sheppard: All right, I'll let it slide for a while, see how it plays out.

Teyla strolls into the room

Teyla: *burps loadly* Heavens, my head is killing me today. What are you ladies gossiping about? Haven't we got a mission to go on?


I know it wouldn't have ended up like that, but it would've been something equally implausible

Or they could have done what they did on Frazier to explain Daphne's pregnancy.

John: Where's Teyla?

Ronon: *shrugs* Last time I saw her was at breakfast.

John: Well, that was hours ago.

Rodney: She was still there when I left.

John: (taps radio) Teyla, come in.

Teyla: (muffled voice) Yes, Colonel.

John: Where are you? We're waiting at the gate.

Teyla: (sounds of swallowing and chair scraping) On my way.

Rodney: I can't believe she's still eating. Even I was finished hours ago.

Ronon: She's using food to compensate for losing her friend Kate.

John: Well, she better waddle on out here, we're burning daylight.

Or something like that.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

And maybe they were just too tight to hire another actor I guess Ford was gone, so the next highest ranking expedition member would've been a fairly low ranked officer, or they could've gone with a Deadalus officer who wasn't familiar with Atlantis at all. Teyla was a pretty safe pair of hands, regardless of her origins

*snorts* I can certainly see that after all the money they must've blown on The Siege.

But Carter got the clubbing jacket because she was their favourite

Ah, but Weir did get her own clubbing jacket, even if we only saw it for about 30 seconds or so.

Woolsey: I did not have sexual relations with that woman

Nope, that's not it. Take two:

Woolsey: I can neither confirm nor deny that I was privy to any intelligence information, or what time I knew said information, if indeed I knew it.

That's kinda the reason I wasn't keen on the whole 'hidden pregnancy' scenario, even though it could have worked in the right circumstances. I could imagine TPTW coming up with something like this:

Sheppard: Teyla's running late, again. She seems to be making a habit of it

Ronon: Yeah, she's not feeling well

Sheppard: What, throwing up again? Maybe I should take her off the team. She's been getting a bit out of shape lately too

Ronon: Don't do that. I didn't want to say anything, but she's taken the kidnapping of the Athosians pretty hard. She's been hitting the bottle

Sheppard: You don't say? So that's where she is now? Throwing up?

Ronon: *nods* Don't say anything though, she's in a bad place right now

Sheppard: All right, I'll let it slide for a while, see how it plays out.

Teyla strolls into the room

Teyla: *burps loadly* Heavens, my head is killing me today. What are you ladies gossiping about? Haven't we got a mission to go on?


I know it wouldn't have ended up like that, but it would've been something equally implausible

Implausible and just plain old silly. At least your version was funny.

Or they could have made up an invisible "Major Whozit". Hey, it worked with Kanaan. Sort of.

True, dat.

Or they could have done what they did on Frazier to explain Daphne's pregnancy.

John: Where's Teyla?

Ronon: *shrugs* Last time I saw her was at breakfast.

John: Well, that was hours ago.

Rodney: She was still there when I left.

John: (taps radio) Teyla, come in.

Teyla: (muffled voice) Yes, Colonel.

John: Where are you? We're waiting at the gate.

Teyla: (sounds of swallowing and chair scraping) On my way.

Rodney: I can't believe she's still eating. Even I was finished hours ago.

Ronon: She's using food to compensate for losing her friend Kate.

John: Well, she better waddle on out here, we're burning daylight.

Or something like that.

Ohhhh, that's bad! I like it.

[Southern Red]

Here's a wish for a big Happy Birthday to our very own poundpuppy. We hope your day is full of Sparky surprises.

[poundpuppy29]

Here's a wish for a big Happy Birthday to our very own poundpuppy. We hope your day is full of Sparky surprises.

Thanks I appreciate it

[Brie]

Hello everyone!

The ’Fantastic 4’ reference was a bit odd, I dunno, if they really wanted to use some kind of reference there are tons of other better once out there that actually might have made sense, especially since ‘Fantastic 4’ is about four people and their enemy while SGA does have more than four characters, I kinda liked Teyla’s response to that, even if it was supposed to be to show her ignorance of earth things it felt like it was more of her saying that it was a dumb metaphor to begin with.

That office scene may as well have included an arrow above her head, or an alarm saying "doom approaching". Any time I've ever seen a character mention leaving, they walk in front of the proverbial bus. And generally, if they're not a lead and they get an entire episode devoted to them (Janet), it's never a good sign when they head out into a dangerous situation.

What made me smirk about FS was that they didn't just cut Weir out of the loop, they cut Sheppard out too. They weren't even aware of what images the Deadalus had been getting under Ellis produced them. Surely they should have been kept informed simply on the basis of Atlantis being the likely first target of any attack?

I agree with this, I did notice how John’s part got smaller after that, it also another thing that made we wonder why they though it was a good idea to bring Carter into Atlantis in the first place, I mean I heard somewhere (and I could be wrong) that they wanted to make it more military, but they already had a military leader (John), they already had a science leader (Rodney), they already had the medical leader (Carson) and they had the leader who took care of everyone and everything (Elizabeth) and by the third season it was obvious that the 4 of them had created something that really worked and had learned to work with and of each other to make Atlantis not only a great place to live and work but also that made it a great show as well so I thought that it made the changes suck even more (Now don’t take this as me bashing Carter in any way, I liked her and AT is a great actress but it just felt that since the crew and in some ways also the cast had been repeating over and over again how different SGA was from SG-1 and how it was supposed to be two different shows and then just change that and not even doing it in a good way).

I was thinking of something else here but then I didn’t write it down right away so I forgot what it was, oh well, it might come back to me later.

Nah, she could've borrowed Ronon's pimp!coat while she was pregnant, then they could've hidden the whole thing.

Haha, that coat did feel inconvenient at times though Jason made it work.



I also wanted to wish poundpuppy29 a Happy Birthday.

[ShipperWriter]

Casualties of War = AWESOME.

Selling Mirror, Mirror for $150? I didn't think that one was out of print, but I guess it is.

Then I'm gonna hafta go find it! Almost done with "The Hunger Games" series (I took a break over teh weekend) so that's next on the reading list.

We always did think that Carter on SGA was basically given Weir's lines.

Her and Woolsey. That position, that character, the leader of Atlantis, was always Elizabeth Weir. They just tried to bring in substitutes which didn't pan out in the long run ...

Woolsey: I did not have sexual relations with that woman

Nope, that's not it. Take two:

Woolsey: I can neither confirm nor deny that I was privy to any intelligence information, or what time I knew said information, if indeed I knew it.

*chokes*

Oh geez. And the sad thing is, I can see him saying that. Of course, I can also see John saying that, so ... what was my point? Forgot.

Or they could have done what they did on Frazier to explain Daphne's pregnancy.

John: Where's Teyla?

Ronon: *shrugs* Last time I saw her was at breakfast.

John: Well, that was hours ago.

Rodney: She was still there when I left.

John: (taps radio) Teyla, come in.

Teyla: (muffled voice) Yes, Colonel.

John: Where are you? We're waiting at the gate.

Teyla: (sounds of swallowing and chair scraping) On my way.

Rodney: I can't believe she's still eating. Even I was finished hours ago.

Ronon: She's using food to compensate for losing her friend Kate.

John: Well, she better waddle on out here, we're burning daylight.

Or something like that.

They could've just hidden her behind a lot of panels, like B'Elanna Torres from Voyager. The actress, Roxann Dawson, was preggers during S5 or 6, I think, and that's what they did. Then they got her character pregnant during S7. Go figure.

Ah, but Weir did get her own clubbing jacket, even if we only saw it for about 30 seconds or so.

And her jacket beat all.

The Pimp!Jacket comments has me rereading ZeroPointSnark. Just what I need after a craptastic Monday at work.

Be back later. Got some cleaning to do.

*zips out*

[Madness reigns]

Looks like you guys had a fantastic rewatch (I was on a date! )

Happy Birthday PoundPuppy
I bring cake in honour of your special day

I also bring a new photo of my Nephew James (Teh hair is a little flat today )

Spoiler:

[ShipperWriter]

Looks like you guys had a fantastic rewatch (I was on a date! )

You're excused.

Happy Birthday PoundPuppy
I bring cake in honour of your special day

I also bring a new photo of my Nephew James (Teh hair is a little flat today )

Spoiler:

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...DSCF0621-1.jpg

I'm taking some of the cake!!!

And teh hair is adorkable, as always!!!

[Southern Red]

Looks like you guys had a fantastic rewatch (I was on a date! )

Happy IBirthday PoundPuppy
I bring cake in honour of your special day
Http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...002_MEDIUM.jpg

I also bring a new photo of my Nephew James (Teh hair is a little flat today )

Spoiler:

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...DSCF0621-1.jpg

I don't know which of those cakes I'd like to try first.

That has got to be one of the cutest babies I have ever seen. And the hair certainly helps.

[Scary Kitty]

Since Madness reigns has already taken care of the cake, let me just wish a very Happy Birthday to poundpuppy! Hope you're having a great day!

PS Madness reigns: Your nephew is adorable, even when his hair isn't doing a Sheppard! Just sayin'.

I agree with this, I did notice how John’s part got smaller after that, it also another thing that made we wonder why they though it was a good idea to bring Carter into Atlantis in the first place, I mean I heard somewhere (and I could be wrong) that they wanted to make it more military, but they already had a military leader (John), they already had a science leader (Rodney), they already had the medical leader (Carson) and they had the leader who took care of everyone and everything (Elizabeth) and by the third season it was obvious that the 4 of them had created something that really worked and had learned to work with and of each other to make Atlantis not only a great place to live and work but also that made it a great show as well so I thought that it made the changes suck even more (Now don’t take this as me bashing Carter in any way, I liked her and AT is a great actress but it just felt that since the crew and in some ways also the cast had been repeating over and over again how different SGA was from SG-1 and how it was supposed to be two different shows and then just change that and not even doing it in a good way).

No worries, I think I can safely say we all thought that Carter on SGA was very, very badly handled. She just never really fit into the dynamic among the rest of the characters.

Her and Woolsey. That position, that character, the leader of Atlantis, was always Elizabeth Weir. They just tried to bring in substitutes which didn't pan out in the long run ...

Though to be honest, I think Woolsey did better at growing into that position. Certainly, he was more like Elizabeth in that both of them were "neither fish nor fowl" (scientist or military).

And her jacket beat all.

The Pimp!Jacket comments has me rereading ZeroPointSnark. Just what I need after a craptastic Monday at work.

Be back later. Got some cleaning to do.

*zips out*

You betcha that Lizzeh's biker jacket was the baddestass of all of them.

Ahhhh, ZeroPointSnark. I feel the urge to go revisit some of those posts myself.

[Brie]

Madness reigns, your nephew is adorable.

No worries, I think I can safely say we all thought that Carter on SGA was very, very badly handled. She just never really fit into the dynamic among the rest of the characters.

Sometimes when you haven’t been a round for that long you don’t know how people will react to some things, now I’ve never said anything bad about anyone, no characters and defiantly non of the actors but sometimes when you’re online people read things differently than what they would if they actually heard you say it so that’s why I made sure that everyone knew that there was no Carter bashing, though I agree with what you wrote, that the whole thing was just handled poorly and I don’t know what they wanted to do with it considering that she was only in like 11 episodes of that season before she left I still don’t understand why they couldn’t keep Elizabeth and still have Carter do those 11 episodes anyway kind of the way they had Jack O’Neill in ‘The Return pt 1 and 2’ and Daniel Jackson in those two episodes in season n5 (I don’t remember their names), my point is it could have been handled better and in a way so that everyone was happy and instead they made a big mess of it.

Though to be honest, I think Woolsey did better at growing into that position. Certainly, he was more like Elizabeth in that both of them were "neither fish nor fowl" (scientist or military).

I agree with that, I wasn’t a big fan of Woolsey when he first appear yet he did grow on me in season 5 and while he was still the guy that they made fun of in many episodes he still had his moment and his character did grow a lot after spending more time on ‘Atlantis’, one thing that I thought was weird was that he wasn’t in every episode either, it was a bit odd how in the last two seasons no characters, except John and Rodney were in every episode yet it seem to have been a rule in the first three seasons…though I can’t remember if Carson was in every episode once he moved up to the opening credits, but it did feel a bit like when Torri had to leave that it wasn’t as important anymore that all characters got, well, not an equal screen time but at least had something to do in every episode.

You betcha that Lizzeh's biker jacket was the baddestass of all of them.

She looked great in it, makes one wish that she would have worn it from the beginning….but then again, non of the guys on Atlantis would have gotten any work done, they would have been to busy drooling after her.

[JT-2]

Happy Birthday, poundpuppy!!!

Hey, quick question: when we were talking about books before, what was the opinion on "Casualties of War"? Cause just from the excerpt, it seems like a Sparky friendly book ...

Just wonderin.

And why in the world are some people trying to sell "Mirror, Mirror" online for $150?!?!?!?!

Casualties of War was a good book, too. I give it a thumbs up!

I could sell my copy of Mirror, Mirror for $150!? Wow!! That's crazy.

Do you mean by writing an episode that was centred around John and Elizabeth, with a side order of Rodney backing Elizabeth up?

Those are my favorite type of episodes, so yeah.

Nah, she could've borrowed Ronon's pimp!coat while she was pregnant, then they could've hidden the whole thing.

I also bring a new photo of my Nephew James (Teh hair is a little flat today )

Spoiler:

OMG so very adorable!!!

I agree with that, I wasn’t a big fan of Woolsey when he first appear yet he did grow on me in season 5 and while he was still the guy that they made fun of in many episodes he still had his moment and his character did grow a lot after spending more time on ‘Atlantis’, one thing that I thought was weird was that he wasn’t in every episode either, it was a bit odd how in the last two seasons no characters, except John and Rodney were in every episode yet it seem to have been a rule in the first three seasons…though I can’t remember if Carson was in every episode once he moved up to the opening credits, but it did feel a bit like when Torri had to leave that it wasn’t as important anymore that all characters got, well, not an equal screen time but at least had something to do in every episode.

It seemed to me like they wanted to make Atlantis more like SG-1 in seasons 4 and 5, with the change in producers. I believe Mallozzi made comments about how Elizabeth wasn't really an important character, that she was supposed to be a backup character like Landry. I think the season 4-5 producers really wanted SG-1 back and tried to mould Atlantis into that. What was great about Atlantis in the early seasons was the feeling it was about the whole expedition and the lost city of Atlantis. Why go to Atlantis to then visit medieval village #4341 that looks like BC?

[Brie]

It seemed to me like they wanted to make Atlantis more like SG-1 in seasons 4 and 5, with the change in producers. I believe Mallozzi made comments about how Elizabeth wasn't really an important character, that she was supposed to be a backup character like Landry. I think the season 4-5 producers really wanted SG-1 back and tried to mould Atlantis into that.

I still can’t believe he said that, as if getting rid of such a great female actor like Torri wasn’t enough, they had to go out and try and diminish the work she did do. And if she was supposed to have been a back-up character they should have hired someone who didn’t have the charisma and charm and acting skills that Torri has who really did light up the screen in every scene she was in, and on top of that she really did have great chemistry with the rest of the cast which is as you also brought up that it made the it feel like it was about the whole cast which is how I think it should have been. You also notice the names of the shows, the first one being “Stargate SG-1” it was pretty obvious that it was mainly about SG-1 and their adventures and so having them being in focus wasn’t surprising. But having the show being called “Stargate Atlantis” it doesn’t have that specific thing, I mean it’s not called “Stargate Atlantis: Sheppard Team” or “Stargate Atlantis SGA-1”, but simple “Stargate Atlantis” it was ok to have it be more of an ensemble show than SG-1 and they main reason they went to the Pegasus galaxy in the first place was to discover Atlantis and then they unavoidably stumbled into other things along the way. I must admit that I kind of still wish in some ways that they hadn’t been able to make contact with earth again, at least not so soon if even at all, they could have meet some other allies that helped them during ‘the siege’ and the other episodes where they got help from earth, I mean I have a hard time believing that Earth, the Wraith, the Asurans and the Travellers were the only people in the Pegasus galaxy (or any of the once near by) that had access to some kind of spaceships, heck, they even made it such a point where computer-repli-Liz (GitM) told them that there were other powerful people out there that stayed hidden from the Wraith yet they never even tried to find out more about them, and with the exaction of Teyla bringing it up in the episode where the asgards kidnap Rodney and Daniel it was never brought up again, it could have been some interesting stuff (ok, so maybe they had something planed for a possible season 6 or those movies but it was still weird), there was also those cool enemies from ‘the deadulous variation’, I found those bad guys pretty interesting and would have loved to have seen more of them.
And besides, on a side note (not to you, just in general), Landry was played by Beau Bridges who is such a great actor and one of the biggest actors in the stargate universe that comparing them really isn’t a bad thing.

What was great about Atlantis in the early seasons was the feeling it was about the whole expedition and the lost city of Atlantis.

You’re so right about that and that’s why season 1-3 will always be my favourite.

Why go to Atlantis to then visit medieval village #4341 that looks like BC?

I agree with that, especially since not many of the planets they visited (with the exception of the Athosans since Teyla joined the team and also the planet where they found Ronan) really had any major impact on the Atlantis expedition in the last episode. I would have loved to have seen them explore more of the city and found more of it’s secrets, I mean, I might have been dreaming this but didn’t they say that there was about as many rooms in the city as there were rooms on Manhattan, there was so much more they could have done with it. I also gotta say that I still think it was awfully brave of them to fly the city and well, more like land the city without knowing what you can find in the city, I mean machines that creates exploding tumours anyone? Who knows what they could have set of when they landed in the water, heck, it could have been some more interesting plotlines had they accidently turned on some ancient device that could have caused trouble, they had some of that but could defiantly have had more of it.