Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Hey everybody!

Dropping by a new Elizabeth wallpaper that I made.

Spoiler:

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/Erin87_photos/stargate/lizwallie.jpg

oops. GW is apparently cutting off the edge on the right. link to see the whole thing: http://s677.photobucket.com/albums/v...=lizwallie.jpg

Hope everyone's doing well.

Simply beautiful. We never get enough art around here.

Wasn't Mallozzi the one who spearheaded the McKeller ship? Granted, at the time, I was a big McKeller fan, but that's mainly because I'll ship anything. If I watched a TV show about a forest, I'd probably ship a pine tree and a rock. I'm just that desperate.

To a certain extent, but Gero was the McKeller cheerleader. He even wrote Brainstorm and did the commentary all by himself. I truly think none of them believed that we were anything but enchanted with Keller. I love Jewel, but Keller in S5 was just too much.

[Scary Kitty]

*waves to Erin87* I love that wallie! I'm totally with gateraid about Elizabeth; she looks angelic there!

: "Elizabeth, before that Replicator ship kills us, I need to ask you something."
: "Okay?"
: "Are you wearing anything under that jacket? It's been zipped up since we met."
: "Nope. Apparently the Replicators built me with knowledge about our tendancy for frequenting supply closets."
: "Damn Replicators."

See? See? Even the Replicators are Sparky fans! AHAHAHAH!

*starts imagining all the Han/Leia scenes replaced with John/Elizabeth*

So who would've been Luke??? Hmm?

It's not really a map though, and if they'd bothered to think about it, it wouldn't have been a surprise either. Didn't they wonder where the Ancients went? Or where they came from? Surely they could have sent some hives on scouting missions over the last 10,000yrs (with some refreshments in storage)? Space is omni-directional, after all. Continuity fail.

No, it's not a map, but at least it seemed from the episode like they got a basic idea.

Yeah, it's kind of odd that the Wraith never really seemed to care about what happened to the Ancients and always wonder in the back of their minds if the Ancients were going to come back. On the other hand, the Wraith did completely wrest dominance of Pegasus from the Ancients and beat the Ancients back to Lantea. Maybe once the Ancients left, the Wraith just didn't care. *shrugs*

Yes, YES!!! I do not understand that dream.

It's set with the Athosians, not Atlantis (I assume that's because that's where her greatest ties are). Ronon is the first person she sees, who then proceeds to tease her about Shep with a phrase that I've not heard anyone on the show use, let alone two aliens. Is he saying this (in her mind) as a way of explaining why he didn't put the moves on her, or just that he really did think she'd end up with Shep? Then she sees the man of her dreams. Whoa - it's either a flashback to when he attacked her, a mental interpretation of her blaming him for waking the wraith and causing untold chaos in Pegasus, a reminder of how people in her life have ended up, some sort of underlying fear of the wraith side of her DNA, or an indication of her desires for him. I shouldn't be able to come up with that many other ideas for it other than what should have been ship-only.

Heck, maybe it's all of them. I mean, the crystal entity that was getting in everyone's heads and creating the nightmares was playing on each person's deepest fears. In Teyla's case, there's certainly a whole lot of Wraith-related and Sheppard-related baggage that the entity could have played with.

There's always PFC (Pegasus Fried Colonel).

OMG. *dies laughing*

I understand the ethos of not giving fans everything they want, but these guys took it to the extreme. Back when I used to watch ST, one of the clever things (I thought) they did with Crusher & Picard was have them get married in the finale. By doing this they pleased the shippers, but they also pleased the non-shippers when it didn't work out. Genius.

My impression of TPTW is that they probably thought that no matter what they did, people would still watch (what's the expression - if the fans hate it they'll only watch five times, not fifteen?), so they wrote what they wanted to happen and assumed people would tune it. To a point, it worked. I continued to watch as the quality declined. There is no scale for enjoyment in ratings, so as long as people still tune in and advertisers still purchase ad time, then there's no issue.

Heh! I remember that from TNG. Genius, indeed.

As for SG's PTW, I continued to watch, too. Of course, it was partly because I was vainly hoping that someone would come to their senses and fix the mess they were making, but... *shrugs*

TPTW: Let them eat cake

Fans: Get bent

Nah, I don't think that's what the fans were saying. I'd say what the fans were really saying, but I'd probably get modded, so I won't.

Excellent comparison. Wasn't the plan to go with Luke and Leia originally, but he turned out to be a complete weenie, and Han & Leia actually had some chemistry so they did the ship swaparoo? Or is that an urban myth?

You know, I'm not sure. I've heard a similar story about Luke/Leia vs. Han/Leia, but I have no idea if it's true.

True. When I watch it, it feels more like a "I'm-transforming-into-something-weird-and-I'm-fighting-a-female-with-whom-I-have-a-certain-amount-of-tension-so-I'm-gonna-kiss-her-because-she's-available". Then again, they could've used that logic when Elizabeth is talking to John in his quarters and he pins her to the wall by the neck. That would've been enjoyable. *smirk* Again, another fail by TPTW.

RAWR. I wouldn't have said no to that. If indeed the whole thing was supposed to be playing on "hidden desires" and all that. As it stands, in my personal canon, the Conversion kiss was simply due to Sheppard's Wraith-infected genes reacting to Teyla's own Wraith genes. Biological imperative only, no hidden desires anywhere to be seen.

She does. The angel of Atlantis.

That she is.

[ShipperWriter]

To a certain extent, but Gero was the McKeller cheerleader. He even wrote Brainstorm and did the commentary all by himself. I truly think none of them believed that we were anything but enchanted with Keller. I love Jewel, but Keller in S5 was just too much.

*shakes head* Like I said, at the time, I was shipping McKeller like crazy. And I kinda still like the ship (not on the same scale as Sparky, mind you ) but TPTW made the relationship happen too fast. That's one of the reasons, IMO, why McKeller was as unpopular as it was.

Now on the other hand, Sparky, because it was never paraded as "the ship" for SGA, isn't as popular. It is, however, full of UST, inside jokes, honesty and respect at its best and worst, and ... hey, wait a minute ... it was an actual friendship/relationship that could've blossomed into something more onscreen. When you look at the cast of characters and say "Oh, this one's knocked up, this one has dead family issues, this one has to stay single so all the fangirls will continue to drool over him, and we're obscure as to the relationship status of this character that we dragged over from the parent show and used to boot off that meaningless red shirt," who's left to ship? They know that sex sells. They start advertising a new ship, people will flock.

[/rant]

See? See? Even the Replicators are Sparky fans! AHAHAHAH!

Yeah, I was particularly proud of that caption. *beams*

Heck, maybe it's all of them. I mean, the crystal entity that was getting in everyone's heads and creating the nightmares was playing on each person's deepest fears. In Teyla's case, there's certainly a whole lot of Wraith-related and Sheppard-related baggage that the entity could have played with.

So Lorne's worst fear is that everyone around him is a Replicator, not that he'll never make it as a painter? *snickers, then pets Lorne on head*

As for SG's PTW, I continued to watch, too. Of course, it was partly because I was vainly hoping that someone would come to their senses and fix the mess they were making, but... *shrugs*

It's like a car wreck: you don't wanna see it happen, but you can't help but watch.

RAWR. I wouldn't have said no to that. If indeed the whole thing was supposed to be playing on "hidden desires" and all that. As it stands, in my personal canon, the Conversion kiss was simply due to Sheppard's Wraith-infected genes reacting to Teyla's own Wraith genes. Biological imperative only, no hidden desires anywhere to be seen.

That she is.

Ooh, why didn't I think of that? That makes the most sense, from anybody's point of view. Even Sheyla could accept that and still be content. Hey, we get our kicks from watching Sparky smooch in TLG, and they're under alien influence. Granted, John did know they were "married" when he agreed to it. He was probably hoping to use it as an excuse to get it on with his hot boss.

: "Me John. You Elizabeth. That supply closet."

... Whoa. I seriously need some sleep after all that. Plus, I need to post fic. I have grumbling reviewers breathing down my neck. Grr ...

[Scary Kitty]

Now on the other hand, Sparky, because it was never paraded as "the ship" for SGA, isn't as popular.

Not as popular?!? Horse hockey!

When you look at the cast of characters and say "Oh, this one's knocked up, this one has dead family issues, this one has to stay single so all the fangirls will continue to drool over him, and we're obscure as to the relationship status of this character that we dragged over from the parent show and used to boot off that meaningless red shirt," who's left to ship?

Ohhhh, sad but true.

So Lorne's worst fear is that everyone around him is a Replicator, not that he'll never make it as a painter? *snickers, then pets Lorne on head*

I figured it was more like "everyone's out to get him." Poor boy.

It's like a car wreck: you don't wanna see it happen, but you can't help but watch.

Pretty much.

Ooh, why didn't I think of that? That makes the most sense, from anybody's point of view. Even Sheyla could accept that and still be content. Hey, we get our kicks from watching Sparky smooch in TLG, and they're under alien influence. Granted, John did know they were "married" when he agreed to it. He was probably hoping to use it as an excuse to get it on with his hot boss.

: "Me John. You Elizabeth. That supply closet."

You betcha it makes the most sense. Logic, we haz it.

And of course John was using it as an excuse to get it on with his hot boss. Naughty boy.

... Whoa. I seriously need some sleep after all that. Plus, I need to post fic. I have grumbling reviewers breathing down my neck. Grr ...

Sleep? What's that?

[gateraid]

very nice wallpaper Erin. sorry that i havent been around lately folks real life kinda is overtaking my free time to come on here. i hope you guys are doing well.

RL is like that sometimes. Take care of yourself

Wasn't Mallozzi the one who spearheaded the McKeller ship? Granted, at the time, I was a big McKeller fan, but that's mainly because I'll ship anything. If I watched a TV show about a forest, I'd probably ship a pine tree and a rock. I'm just that desperate.

I don't ship them, but by the end of the show, I was more relaxed about the situation. As time has gone by, IDK what to think about that couple. As has been said before, on paper they should have been an ideal couple. The setup was a complete fiasco - it seemed like they slammed the two of them together without any regard for how it would come across. But in the end, they seemed like an okay couple. In fact, in Atlantis Rising, I kinda like them.

: "Elizabeth, before that Replicator ship kills us, I need to ask you something."
: "Okay?"
: "Are you wearing anything under that jacket? It's been zipped up since we met."
: "Nope. Apparently the Replicators built me with knowledge about our tendancy for frequenting supply closets."
: "Damn Replicators."

True. When I watch it, it feels more like a "I'm-transforming-into-something-weird-and-I'm-fighting-a-female-with-whom-I-have-a-certain-amount-of-tension-so-I'm-gonna-kiss-her-because-she's-available". Then again, they could've used that logic when Elizabeth is talking to John in his quarters and he pins her to the wall by the neck. That would've been enjoyable. *smirk* Again, another fail by TPTW.

I wouldn't have been okay with an Elizabeth kiss in that ep, especially if it was preceded by him trying to strangle her.
But, like the one in the ep proper, it's all in how they set it up I guess.

I had to go back and reread the transcript for "Doppelganger" because I don't have the eppy to watch. There are a lot of writing SNAFUs in that. Rodney's afraid of whales, Ronan and Teyla use the phrase "hook up", Carter refers to Jack as "Colonel O'Neill", John and Teyla simultaneously decide they need to see each other, Kate dies in a dream ... I know FH has deleted that episode in her personal canon, and I'm about to as well. Yikes, it's giving me a headache.

Kate dies. The ultimate *headdesk* moment. I'm so glad I was 'spoiled' about that.

To a certain extent, but Gero was the McKeller cheerleader. He even wrote Brainstorm and did the commentary all by himself. I truly think none of them believed that we were anything but enchanted with Keller. I love Jewel, but Keller in S5 was just too much.

It seemed like a "don't like McKeller? Well screw you! I'll give you more! You'll love it too, you'll see!"

No, it's not a map, but at least it seemed from the episode like they got a basic idea.

So Earth is....east of Atlantis?

Yeah, it's kind of odd that the Wraith never really seemed to care about what happened to the Ancients and always wonder in the back of their minds if the Ancients were going to come back. On the other hand, the Wraith did completely wrest dominance of Pegasus from the Ancients and beat the Ancients back to Lantea. Maybe once the Ancients left, the Wraith just didn't care. *shrugs*

We're not meant to think about it. If it wasn't on the show, it didn't happen. Unless they wanted it to afterwards

Heck, maybe it's all of them. I mean, the crystal entity that was getting in everyone's heads and creating the nightmares was playing on each person's deepest fears. In Teyla's case, there's certainly a whole lot of Wraith-related and Sheppard-related baggage that the entity could have played with.

Yes, a pity there wasnt someone qualified for her to talk to about it anymore

Heh! I remember that from TNG. Genius, indeed.

As for SG's PTW, I continued to watch, too. Of course, it was partly because I was vainly hoping that someone would come to their senses and fix the mess they were making, but... *shrugs*

I'm churning through SPN s6 at the moment. There has been a massive drop in quality. The first few eps were soooo boring. If it hadn't been for the trailer for the next ep, I would have dropped the series altogether. So, Weekend at Bobby's saved SPN for me. SGA surprisingly never reached that point.

You know, I'm not sure. I've heard a similar story about Luke/Leia vs. Han/Leia, but I have no idea if it's true.

I've heard another one about why Carrie Fisher was cast, but it's mean and even if it was true, by the third installment it gets blown out of the water

*shakes head* Like I said, at the time, I was shipping McKeller like crazy. And I kinda still like the ship (not on the same scale as Sparky, mind you ) but TPTW made the relationship happen too fast. That's one of the reasons, IMO, why McKeller was as unpopular as it was.

The setup was a complete fiasco. I think if they'd nixed The Shrine's "I love you" it would have made a big difference. At least that way it would seem like they grew into the relationship together, rather than Rodney being fifteen steps ahead of her

So Lorne's worst fear is that everyone around him is a Replicator, not that he'll never make it as a painter? *snickers, then pets Lorne on head*

They dropped the ball there, they could have let something out of the bag with him. If it was ever in the bag. If it was even true.

[Anuna]

I see someone had mentioned Conversion kiss, and I will shout it until the Kingdom Come. It. Was. Aggressive. It even looks that way, and if you're somehow doubting that it was aggressive, I suggest you look at Teyla's horrified body language. I highly doubt she was enjoying it.

[Southern Red]

I see someone had mentioned Conversion kiss, and I will shout it until the Kingdom Come. It. Was. Aggressive. It even looks that way, and if you're somehow doubting that it was aggressive, I suggest you look at Teyla's horrified body language. I highly doubt she was enjoying it.

You all know that the last time we talked about this all hell broke loose we got modded? Just checkin'.

Anyway, I agree that pheromones had 99% to do with that incident and testosterone the rest. It wasn't what he did, but her reaction that made the difference. And if you don't think she was shaken and felt betrayed, you need to watch it in slow motion. RL did a good acting job there.

Now, since we are doing Hide and Seek today, we need to finish up the discussion on Rising. Any final thoughts on the pilot and how it ends?

[ShipperWriter]

I like how "Rising" ends, with Elizabeth being the voice of reason and John being the obnoxious teenager.

I'm on my phone, getting my oil changed at Walmart. I'm sorry I can't contribute anything else!

Have a good one!

[Southern Red]

I like how "Rising" ends, with Elizabeth being the voice of reason and John being the obnoxious teenager.

I'm on my phone, getting my oil changed at Walmart. I'm sorry I can't contribute anything else!

Have a good one!

You type very well on that little bitty thing. I have tons of trouble on my iPad. Somehow the shift key always defeats me. LOL

[gateraid]

You all know that the last time we talked about this all hell broke loose we got modded? Just checkin'.

Rightly so (the modding), given the name of this thread and where that discussion would likely end up.

Anyway, I agree that pheromones had 99% to do with that incident and testosterone the rest. It wasn't what he did, but her reaction that made the difference. And if you don't think she was shaken and felt betrayed, you need to watch it in slow motion. RL did a good acting job there.

Now, since we are doing Hide and Seek today, we need to finish up the discussion on Rising. Any final thoughts on the pilot and how it ends?

I know the writing for rodney was a little different to what it would be later on (I gather they simply changed the name of the character from Ingram to McKay without altering anything else), but I liked how he stayed in the city for that ep. Just like the head of the city doesn't need to go on every mission, neither does the chief scientist (although more than that statement implies).

I also wondered why the gateroom wasn't shielded after all those years. It couldn't have been the only time theyd taken fire through the stargate.

I liked the tension between them and wished we'd seen more of it, although I think it's one of those things that would get tired pretty quickly, like the constant the-IOA-is-going-to-fire-the-leader storylines. The reason (for me) that it worked so well in Trinity was because she was pushed into doing something she didn't really want to do, but went ahead with it so she could manage the situation - similar to her reasons for working for the government to begin with.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Lazy Sunday!

And... T-minus 5 hours and 14 minutes until Hide and Seek!

I don't ship them, but by the end of the show, I was more relaxed about the situation. As time has gone by, IDK what to think about that couple. As has been said before, on paper they should have been an ideal couple. The setup was a complete fiasco - it seemed like they slammed the two of them together without any regard for how it would come across. But in the end, they seemed like an okay couple. In fact, in Atlantis Rising, I kinda like them.

That's because we don't go overboard with them.

So Earth is....east of Atlantis?

Yeah, something like that.

Now, since we are doing Hide and Seek today, we need to finish up the discussion on Rising. Any final thoughts on the pilot and how it ends?

I liked the ending. I admit the party was a wee bit of a headscratcher from the perspective of wondering what the heck the Athosians were thinking about all this; just the first sign of how they were going to be wallpapered later on, I guess. *sighs* Naturally I LOVED the conversation between John and Elizabeth, as it really laid the groundwork for how their relationship would develop later on.

I also wondered why the gateroom wasn't shielded after all those years. It couldn't have been the only time theyd taken fire through the stargate.

On the other hand, it did make for a nice dramatic moment.

[Falcon Horus]

I had to go back and reread the transcript for "Doppelganger" because I don't have the eppy to watch. There are a lot of writing SNAFUs in that. Rodney's afraid of whales, Ronan and Teyla use the phrase "hook up", Carter refers to Jack as "Colonel O'Neill", John and Teyla simultaneously decide they need to see each other, Kate dies in a dream ... I know FH has deleted that episode in her personal canon, and I'm about to as well. Yikes, it's giving me a headache.

I fixed it in my personal canon -> Slaying The Dreamer

Kate dies. The ultimate *headdesk* moment. I'm so glad I was 'spoiled' about that.

Second that!

I'm on my phone, getting my oil changed at Walmart.

*visualizes this*

[Southern Red]

Just learned that Joe and Torri are both going to be at DragonCon in Atlanta this year. And the year of SparkyCon continues! \0/

[JT-2]

Just learned that Joe and Torri are both going to be at DragonCon in Atlanta this year. And the year of SparkyCon continues! \0/

If they end up in a joint panel with joint photo ops, then I'm gonna pitch a fit. Just saying.

[Scary Kitty]

Just learned that Joe and Torri are both going to be at DragonCon in Atlanta this year. And the year of SparkyCon continues! \0/

ZOMGWTFBBQ!!!!!!!!

Oh my goodness. Eri is going to have serious trouble resisting this.

And... T-minus 2 hours and 24 minutes until Hide and Seek!