Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Yeah, I'm still awake.

Southern Red - about the Chicago con.... is it better to sit in the middle and a little further back or on the sides but closer?

This is the current gold section seating...

Spoiler:

I definitely want to have an aisle seat. (Yes, I have issues, ok? ) So would it be better for us to be in seats D1/D2 or G11/G12?

I certainly understand wanting leg room, too. If you decide to go with seats in one of the side sections rather than the middle, you might want to consider seats that are on the inside aisle between the side and the middle, if you can book those. (H9/10 or G21/22) I've sat in that area (but back in the general admission seats) in the past at the LAX con, and I've had pretty decent sight lines to the stage. I think having that space of the aisle in front of me helped keep people's heads out of my way.

I have to laugh at this... "cute whipped puppy dog face"... because that pic was from Hot Zone's final scene. Whipped puppy, indeed.

Heehee!

Posting from my phone at work...

Ooh, poor Sheppard. Maybe I should start posting on the whump thread.

Or, here's a caption for y'all in connection with the scratches. I know it's a day late, but:

: So Elizabeth, where did you say these scratches came from?
: Umm, I had a minor altercation with Colonel Sheppard off duty.
: Oh. So does that account for the loud noises coming from the supply closet?

[Southern Red]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!



I certainly understand wanting leg room, too. If you decide to go with seats in one of the side sections rather than the middle, you might want to consider seats that are on the inside aisle between the side and the middle, if you can book those. (H9/10 or G21/22) I've sat in that area (but back in the general admission seats) in the past at the LAX con, and I've had pretty decent sight lines to the stage. I think having that space of the aisle in front of me helped keep people's heads out of my way.



Heehee!

Good idea on the seats. It won't really matter where you sit when Joe's up there. He's a moving target., even when he's sitting still. Bring binoculars also for the really close looks.

I just saw the first robin of Spring. That's gotta be the earliest ever.

[Scary Kitty]

Good idea on the seats. It won't really matter where you sit when Joe's up there. He's a moving target., even when he's sitting still. Bring binoculars also for the really close looks.

I just saw the first robin of Spring. That's gotta be the earliest ever.

Robins! We don't seem to have them in my area. Just the squirrels and the hummingbirds.

That's so true about Joe not being able to sit still. The man is Fidgety with a capital F.

[Southern Red]

Robins! We don't seem to have them in my area. Just the squirrels and the hummingbirds.

That's so true about Joe not being able to sit still. The man is Fidgety with a capital F.

And when he absolutely has to sit still, you can guarantee he'll be fiddling with the mic or something. LOL Mr. SR took these pics.

Spoiler:

There's also something I like about this one, but I can't quite figure out what holds my attention.

Spoiler:

[Anuna]

And when he absolutely has to sit still, you can guarantee he'll be fiddling with the mic or something. LOL Mr. SR took these pics.

Spoiler:

There's also something I like about this one, but I can't quite figure out what holds my attention.

Spoiler:

I really love these! The first one is really sweet, I like how relaxed he looks. The third one is precious - I like the motion, they look like tehy're nudging each other.

[Scary Kitty]

And when he absolutely has to sit still, you can guarantee he'll be fiddling with the mic or something. LOL Mr. SR took these pics.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...00830_0556.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...00830_0306.jpg

There's also something I like about this one, but I can't quite figure out what holds my attention.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...830_0333-1.jpg

Oh gee, I wonder what that could be?

[gateraid]

I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion: I don't think John went to Atlantis because of Elizabeth, he went because of Jack.

Elizabeth asked him, he said no. The way Jack explained the whole Stargate scenario to him was to put it into a context he'd understand - Jack used to be him (or a variation of it) and shared his interests until he discovered the Stargate. Stargate travel was the new flying for him.

Elizabeth had read his record. I don't think that her wanting him there was so much a 'taking a chance on him' as it was looking at his abilities and seeing him as a tool that she needed (that sounds a little cold, I mean that as it wouldn't matter who he was, he was the 'best' at ATA related stuff and he needed to go with them) and she likely figured that with Sumner there riding his ass, then insubordination wouldn't be the issue that it had been in the past. It's debatable whether his record details a list of previous insubordination incidences (and other stuff) or just the Afghanistan one, as it was never discussed in detail. So from her perspective, I don't think there was much of a risk with Sheppard. In fact I suspect it would be no greater 'chance' with him than it would be with some of the civilians. At the end of the day, Sumner was her 'guy' and she could rely on him to lay down the law with everyone else, so long as she could keep on top of him.

Look at the Shep/Weir champagne head nod scene. His response is not exactly over the moon. It's more like the look that I give when I'm judging someone unintentionally (maybe it was just a faux pah by TPTW - champagne, ship and what not). That said, a better contrast would have been her beaming smile met by an almost scowl from Sumner (or even Rodney, given he was who she knew).

The idea of him flipping the coin to decide whether or not to see his family makes sense. It didn't occur to me at the time but it's a logical assumption given its placement.

As for why the ep finished off with Shep and Weir instead of him wandering off to talk to Teyla, I think it has to do with including the two leads, and indicating what they want to do with the show. The conversation they had was about him putting together a team to go on missions that might not always go to plan - that's basically the description of SG-1 and SGA. The way it's framed at the end is the contrast between the two shows - on SG-1 it would've ended in the briefing room, with a shot of the main characters. On SGA, it ends with a shot of a blended expedition, in the middle of a new city. I would argue that they could have had the same scene and finished it with them both wandering over to talk to Teyla, although it wouldn't have been as effective (that's why cutting stuff is sometimes a good thing) as it would have dragged it out a bit longer, but it might've illustrated that the trouble he could get into mightn't have all been mission related.

I know people have brought up her assigning him the military commander role in the past, but that's not something she could have changed anyway. There was nobody else, and she didn't have the ability to promote somebody from lower down the chain, nor to requisition someone new. I think what the tag scene demonstrates is that they probably misjudged each other. They were both better at their jobs/roles, and more flexible, than they'd thought the other to be. His response to her 'no rescue until you come up with a plan that doesn't involve everyone dying' ultimatum was to accept that, and come up with a better plan. So, he listened. And proved to be resourceful and skilled in the process. And to him, she proved to be willing to listen and act, more like a voice of reason than a hippie naysayer. Ironically in Afghanistan, he went ahead and did it anyway, although he was only putting his own life in peril then.

At the end of this pilot, I was incredibly optimistic about this series. They'd killed Sumner , a character with a lot of potential, given us two leads that I really liked, and introduced both an exciting new city and a new foe. Oh, and Shep was probably going to 'do' Teyla at some point in the series.

[JT-2]

Posting from my phone at work...

Ooh, poor Sheppard. Maybe I should start posting on the whump thread.

Or, here's a caption for y'all in connection with the scratches. I know it's a day late, but:

: So Elizabeth, where did you say these scratches came from?
: Umm, I had a minor altercation with Colonel Sheppard off duty.
: Oh. So does that account for the loud noises coming from the supply closet?

I certainly understand wanting leg room, too. If you decide to go with seats in one of the side sections rather than the middle, you might want to consider seats that are on the inside aisle between the side and the middle, if you can book those. (H9/10 or G21/22) I've sat in that area (but back in the general admission seats) in the past at the LAX con, and I've had pretty decent sight lines to the stage. I think having that space of the aisle in front of me helped keep people's heads out of my way.

Thanks for the info, both you and Southern Red.

And when he absolutely has to sit still, you can guarantee he'll be fiddling with the mic or something. LOL Mr. SR took these pics.

Spoiler:

There's also something I like about this one, but I can't quite figure out what holds my attention.

Spoiler:

Painted on jeans.

I really love these! The first one is really sweet, I like how relaxed he looks. The third one is precious - I like the motion, they look like tehy're nudging each other.

ANUNA! *glomps*

Oh gee, I wonder what that could be?

I don't currently have the brain power to respond to gateraid's thoughtful post. Hopefully later.

[poundpuppy29]

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Thanks for the birthday wishes guys. I always enjoy coming to this little corner of gateworld so I appreciate the thought.

[ShipperWriter]

I love this diet and all, but I think I'm gonna have to start using drinking coffee again. I'm losing my mental focus by the end of the day in a way I didn't used to. I completely cut off soda; that should be good enough. *nods*

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w...rky/JEToR1.jpg

Ooh, ooh, ooh! One I know! "Tao of Rodney"!!!

gateraid, that was a very interesting and objective perspective of "Rising". I can see that being what was going through the minds of TPTW.

... Too bad Joe and Torri had such great chemistry.

SR -- On the subject of those con pictures, especially the 3rd one:

However, I wonder what Elizabeth thought of him the first time she saw him in those jeans.

[gateraid]

It seems everyone prefers these



John: I appreciate you Elizabeth. I appreciate both of you





Weir: I appreciate your feedback Pete. In fact, I'll have a word in Major Sheppard's ear when he gets out of this bind. I'm sure he'll be happy to throw a party in your honour. BYOB

(Bring Your Own Blanket)





Landry: Just so you know, when they're in the Milky Way, the jumper's computers are linked to the Control Room. Who is this Dr Hotty that you've been IM'ing?





Rodney: Huh. So this is what second base feels like

Sorry I couldn't resist that one





Rodney: This seems unfair

John: You said you shared a connection with Elizabeth, Rodney, so you'll have to go through the same series of physical tests that I had to. Good luck with that







No captions here, but note how Caldwell is looking at Carter in the same way that Elizabeth is looking at John in those screencaps. It makes even more sense if you've seen the "I'm so far up your butt that I need a NavMan and a flashlight to find my way out" BAMSR deleted scene





Woolsey: If it makes you feel better, Sheppard still sits on the edge of my desk every now and then. I let it slide the first time, but.......




''

Weir: So how far downwards does that growth extend Carson?






Interestingly, if she'd pushed a little harder, the fandom wouldn't have become so divided during s4





Todd: I think we'll call ourselves Toolsey. It has a nice ring to it, don't you think?





100% attendance for the first Women of Atlantis meeting





Sheppard: Rodney can read minds, Elizabeth. Minds. Have you thought about what that means? What if he can see images too? I don't want him seeing those....that...us....you know what I mean

Painted on jeans.

Tick, tock, jingle, jangle. A woman I used to do some work for liked to talk about the pendulum effect during running (I was a runner, but she was talking about Linford Christie)

I don't currently have the brain power to respond to gateraid's thoughtful post. Hopefully later.

gateraid, that was a very interesting and objective perspective of "Rising". I can see that being what was going through the minds of TPTW.

... Too bad Joe and Torri had such great chemistry.

You'd think I didn't ship them at all if that post was read in isolation. Mind you, I don't see any evidence of ship (or at least, ship in the tv trope sense) between the two of them in that episode.

Thanks for the birthday wishes guys. I always enjoy coming to this little corner of gateworld so I appreciate the thought.

Happy belated birthday dude

[Scary Kitty]

I'm going to voice an unpopular opinion: I don't think John went to Atlantis because of Elizabeth, he went because of Jack.

Elizabeth asked him, he said no. The way Jack explained the whole Stargate scenario to him was to put it into a context he'd understand - Jack used to be him (or a variation of it) and shared his interests until he discovered the Stargate. Stargate travel was the new flying for him.

Elizabeth had read his record. I don't think that her wanting him there was so much a 'taking a chance on him' as it was looking at his abilities and seeing him as a tool that she needed (that sounds a little cold, I mean that as it wouldn't matter who he was, he was the 'best' at ATA related stuff and he needed to go with them) and she likely figured that with Sumner there riding his ass, then insubordination wouldn't be the issue that it had been in the past. It's debatable whether his record details a list of previous insubordination incidences (and other stuff) or just the Afghanistan one, as it was never discussed in detail. So from her perspective, I don't think there was much of a risk with Sheppard. In fact I suspect it would be no greater 'chance' with him than it would be with some of the civilians. At the end of the day, Sumner was her 'guy' and she could rely on him to lay down the law with everyone else, so long as she could keep on top of him.

Perhaps. On the other hand, we never saw Sumner in Antarctica, so we don't know exactly when he entered the picture. If he was already slated to be military commander when Sheppard's ATA gene was discovered, maybe Weir was thinking Sheppard might keep Sumner's hardassedness on his toes. Her way of jerking Sumner's chain and letting him know that he wasn't going to run roughshod over her. We certainly saw that pretty strongly implied in later scenes once they got to Atlantis.

I know people have brought up her assigning him the military commander role in the past, but that's not something she could have changed anyway. There was nobody else, and she didn't have the ability to promote somebody from lower down the chain, nor to requisition someone new.

Hmm, I don't recall that at all. I think everyone here is well aware that Sheppard became interim military commander in Season 1 because he was the highest-ranked officer in Atlantis after Sumner's death. It was simply the correct thing to do under the circumstances. As for Sheppard's promotion in Season 2, Weir merely reminded Landry & Co. that she had the ear of their highest-ranked superior (the President).

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w254/poundpuppy29/Sparky/JEToR1.jpg

I love that pic! They're so cute in that scene from Tao!

Thanks for the birthday wishes guys. I always enjoy coming to this little corner of gateworld so I appreciate the thought.

*glomps* We love you IP!

SR -- On the subject of those con pictures, especially the 3rd one:

However, I wonder what Elizabeth thought of him the first time she saw him in those jeans.

Probably something along these lines...




And now, back to watching Downton Abbey!

[gateraid]

Perhaps. On the other hand, we never saw Sumner in Antarctica, so we don't know exactly when he entered the picture. If he was already slated to be military commander when Sheppard's ATA gene was discovered, maybe Weir was thinking Sheppard might keep Sumner's hardassedness on his toes. Her way of jerking Sumner's chain and letting him know that he wasn't going to run roughshod over her. We certainly saw that pretty strongly implied in later scenes once they got to Atlantis.

We didn't see Sumner in Antarctica, but I would gather that by...

WEIR: I've been choosing members for this expedition for months, Doctor. I'm not the one who needs convincing. (She looks at O'Neill.)

....that there wasn't a commander chosen at that point. I assume she wouldn't have had a say in who the military head was, that would've been O'Neill's call.

I'm surprised that Sumner didn't comment that she was interfering when she added Shep to his Athos mission team, it certainly seemed like she was. The only explanation I can see (from a show perspective) is that if Shep didn't go on that mission, it suddenly becomes less important. From a logic perspective, the best place for him to be would've been in the city, activating tech. I'd also counter that given he'd already said no to her at the outset that it was likely he'd continue to do so, but irrelevant given that ultimately he answered to Sumner, not her.

Hmm, I don't recall that at all. I think everyone here is well aware that Sheppard became interim military commander in Season 1 because he was the highest-ranked officer in Atlantis after Sumner's death. It was simply the correct thing to do under the circumstances. As for Sheppard's promotion in Season 2, Weir merely reminded Landry & Co. that she had the ear of their highest-ranked superior (the President).

Not here. As for the s2 scene, while I like the scene itself, the logic/reality *headdesk* it creates is

[Southern Red]

We didn't see Sumner in Antarctica, but I would gather that by...

WEIR: I've been choosing members for this expedition for months, Doctor. I'm not the one who needs convincing. (She looks at O'Neill.)

....that there wasn't a commander chosen at that point. I assume she wouldn't have had a say in who the military head was, that would've been O'Neill's call.

I'm surprised that Sumner didn't comment that she was interfering when she added Shep to his Athos mission team, it certainly seemed like she was. The only explanation I can see (from a show perspective) is that if Shep didn't go on that mission, it suddenly becomes less important. From a logic perspective, the best place for him to be would've been in the city, activating tech. I'd also counter that given he'd already said no to her at the outset that it was likely he'd continue to do so, but irrelevant given that ultimately he answered to Sumner, not her.



Not here. As for the s2 scene, while I like the scene itself, the logic/reality *headdesk* it creates is

OMG, where to start. Gateraid, those caps are some of your best. I'd hate to know I had to pick a favorite.

Your observations on Rising are on the mark also. I never can make up my mind about ship in the pilot. I know plenty of people who picked Sparky as the canon ship after watching it, but if you go with the obvious intent, all the signs point to Sheyla. So many times, a show that continues past the pilot becomes almost the opposite in a lot of ways very quickly. I think that's what seems to have happened here, even if they deny it.

In the real world, Elizabeth would have had very little say so over the choice of military personnel. John correctly automatically became commander because of rank and as long as they were cut off, that worked. But once they got reestablished a new commander would have been sent without regard to what she wanted. If indeed, the President let her pick someone, then it would have taken a direct order from him, as Commanding Officer of the military, to convince those Generals to let Shep stay. But they didn't have time to do all that so we have to give them creative license.

And Shep had to go on that first mission so he could turn on the necklace to bring the Wraith. I can just see the writers pondering over that one and deciding to mix a little ship in with the whole thing to kill two birds with one stone. Too bad one of them landed like a rock.

SK is watching Downton Abbey! Yay! Another one joins the crowd.

We've gotten a bit into my second section of The Rising: exploration of Atlantis to first mission, but can discuss that more, if you wish. How about Mr. SR's favorite part, "Spaceships!!!!!!"? How must the expedition members have been feeling? And then came the "OMG, we're all gonna die" section.

Also what are your thoughts on the actual mission to Athos? John and the kids. Sumner's treatment of Teyla. The outcome with the arrival of the Wraith. We'd probably best avoid the John/Teyla parts. I think we all know what we think about those.