Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[mandogater]

Sharing the sig I made for AFA thread...

That is simply wonderful syfyfan!!!

Is it me or does Sparky Red sound like it could be the name of a wine?

[mandogater]

Colonel Potter for base commander!

Now you have me pondering crossover fic ideas! I bet Potter would find it easier to deal with Sheppard than Hawkeye.

That being said, RIP Harry Morgan.

[Scary Kitty]

That is simply wonderful syfyfan!!!

Is it me or does Sparky Red sound like it could be the name of a wine?

And now I've got two plot bunnies biting my ankles. One with an AU idea where John's a burned-out winemaker and Elizabeth's an innovative rogue chef, the other a more canon-esque idea with Zelenka starting a vineyard out on one of Atlantis's piers. Just don't look for me to write either of these any time soon.

Now you have me pondering crossover fic ideas! I bet Potter would find it easier to deal with Sheppard than Hawkeye.

That being said, RIP Harry Morgan.

OMG. The entire MASH crew would totally fit in on Atlantis. That'd be one insanely cracktastic crossover. Quick, someone fire up the DeLorean!

[JT-2]

And now I've got two plot bunnies biting my ankles. One with an AU idea where John's a burned-out winemaker and Elizabeth's an innovative rogue chef, the other a more canon-esque idea with Zelenka starting a vineyard out on one of Atlantis's piers. Just don't look for me to write either of these any time soon.



OMG. The entire MASH crew would totally fit in on Atlantis. That'd be one insanely cracktastic crossover. Quick, someone fire up the DeLorean!

Whoa, those are some serious crack pieces in the making!

Just watched The Real World. Elizabeth is pretty with her pretty freckles.



John is adorable with his sweet smile.

[Scary Kitty]

Whoa, those are some serious crack pieces in the making!

I swear, if I had a dollar for every crack plot bunny that came through my door...


Deliberate repost of TEH CUTENESS (but under spoiler tags to protect the innocent... oh wait, there are no innocents here... ):

Spoiler:

Just watched The Real World. Elizabeth is pretty with her pretty freckles.



John is adorable with his sweet smile.

EEEEEEEE! I wanna cuddle 'em and snuggle 'em!


Yes, it's late, and I'm feeling silly, which means it's time for this little kitty to head off to bed and some sweet Sparky dreams! Nighty-night, all! *waves*

[gateraid]

Thanks. I think I use that shot of John more than any other. Love that moment.



You're right. That single act by Joe did more to change the Sparky dynamic than anything TPTB came up with. John's grief over losing her was right there for everyone to see, and there was absolutely no way to misinterpret it.

The wiggleroom there is whether one views it as him being emotional over his good friend being disabled/dying or if he had deeper feelings towards her. The way it comes across (they could have easily cut that, or used a different take) makes it seem like at the very least he considers her a very good friend, like a sibling. Say what you like about how close he and Rodney are, but Rodney has been near death (in what looked like no-way-out situations) and the reaction was nothing like that.

I think (romance aside) John probably views Elizabeth as being a little too good for him, and finds her innocence somewhat endearing. Over the course of the few years, he was the one who (by default of the fact of where they were) was trying to drag her into his world. The fact that she was the one who was killed after that particular military exercise would've made it sting even more. Had it happened in another situation it mightn't have seemed like the knife was being twisted just that little bit more. She wasn't the one volunteering to head out every day and put their life on the line, her role was to stay at home and out of harm's way as much as was practical. Look at Lorne's reaction in Conversion when two members of his team die (bugger, I'm gonna have to file a report for use of that grenade....), or even Shep & Weir's reaction to Lorne's death in CDT. Dying on a mission is unfortunate, and tragic, but it isn't unexpected. Heck, even in Sanctuary, both Rodney and Carson deliberately shield her from the 'monster'. Not exactly the equivalent of Superman and Batman, but they felt the need to protect her. Rodney's treatment of her (in a crisis) is surprisingly heroic, and surprisingly selfless (in Progeny, he was the one who voiced concern over her linking with Niam - Rodney?!?). They viewed her as weak (I don't want to use that word, what I mean is incapable of defending herself physically) in a volative situation, and yet in the relative safety of Stargate Operations she was taken out. Being killed on home soil is especially tough.

This was the first time since Hot Zone that they'd had a major disagreement, yet this time their reaction's (hers especially) seemed more personal than anything else. He'd not exactly disagreed when Ellis suggested he should be the one running Atlantis (rather surprising that he'd think a subordinate would do a better job but whatever). Seeing her on that stretcher would've, at the very least, been an "uh oh, I did that" moment

Is that a challenge?

Go for it. *snort*

He was crying tears of joy re his release from her restrictive grasp?

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!



Not that they'd really had opportunity to use that gag before...



I seem to recall that Stargate did have advisors from the military. I guess TPTW had started ignoring them by the time Atlantis rolled around.

I recall a commentary discussion over Cadman's hair to the effect of "we decided oh **** it, it's only tv, one has to lose a little believability".

He died last week so I guess they'll have to go in a different direction

Taking a break from trying to create artwork. Even with help from syfyfan and Madness reigns, I still can't make anything pretty. *sigh* It has to be a left brain/right brain disconnect. I am math girl, after all.



And you know Gero never thought Joe would take it as far as he did. I'm sure he just wrote "John looks sad." You never learned, Marty, that you shouldn't give Joe and Torri any leeway.

Or maybe he did learn, and wanted John to be as distraught as possible, so someone could catch him on the rebound, by, say, Doppleganger?

He was tearing up because he'd gone to great lengths to set up a murder plot that was going to happen the following week. All his hard work was going to be wasted.

Yes, it was going to be a huge SGA/Agatha Christie homage, with Otho to be revealed as the murderer. If the butler couldn't have Shep, then no one could

[Southern Red]

Taking a break from trying to create artwork. Even with help from syfyfan and Madness reigns, I still can't make anything pretty. *sigh* It has to be a left brain/right brain disconnect. I am math girl, after all.



And you know Gero never thought Joe would take it as far as he did. I'm sure he just wrote "John looks sad." You never learned, Marty, that you shouldn't give Joe and Torri any leeway.



He was tearing up because he'd gone to great lengths to set up a murder plot that was going to happen the following week. All his hard work was going to be wasted.

Now, see that is a good example of how some people think.

The wiggleroom there is whether one views it as him being emotional over his good friend being disabled/dying or if he had deeper feelings towards her. The way it comes across (they could have easily cut that, or used a different take) makes it seem like at the very least he considers her a very good friend, like a sibling. Say what you like about how close he and Rodney are, but Rodney has been near death (in what looked like no-way-out situations) and the reaction was nothing like that.

I think (romance aside) John probably views Elizabeth as being a little too good for him, and finds her innocence somewhat endearing. Over the course of the few years, he was the one who (by default of the fact of where they were) was trying to drag her into his world. The fact that she was the one who was killed after that particular military exercise would've made it sting even more. Had it happened in another situation it mightn't have seemed like the knife was being twisted just that little bit more. She wasn't the one volunteering to head out every day and put their life on the line, her role was to stay at home and out of harm's way as much as was practical. Look at Lorne's reaction in Conversion when two members of his team die (bugger, I'm gonna have to file a report for use of that grenade....), or even Shep & Weir's reaction to Lorne's death in CDT. Dying on a mission is unfortunate, and tragic, but it isn't unexpected. Heck, even in Sanctuary, both Rodney and Carson deliberately shield her from the 'monster'. Not exactly the equivalent of Superman and Batman, but they felt the need to protect her. Rodney's treatment of her (in a crisis) is surprisingly heroic, and surprisingly selfless (in Progeny, he was the one who voiced concern over her linking with Niam - Rodney?!?). They viewed her as weak (I don't want to use that word, what I mean is incapable of defending herself physically) in a volative situation, and yet in the relative safety of Stargate Operations she was taken out. Being killed on home soil is especially tough.

This was the first time since Hot Zone that they'd had a major disagreement, yet this time their reaction's (hers especially) seemed more personal than anything else. He'd not exactly disagreed when Ellis suggested he should be the one running Atlantis (rather surprising that he'd think a subordinate would do a better job but whatever). Seeing her on that stretcher would've, at the very least, been an "uh oh, I did that" moment

Very well said. He must have felt a tremendous amount of guilt over what happened to her.

He was crying tears of joy re his release from her restrictive grasp?

I recall a commentary discussion over Cadman's hair to the effect of "we decided oh **** it, it's only tv, one has to lose a little believability".

They forgot that it's the little things that viewers notice. I also recall the kerfluffle over John's hair early on when the Air Force asked for it to be cut. Joe agreed but TPTB said no. That's the time, I believe, when Joe got the ride with the Thunderbirds.

He died last week so I guess they'll have to go in a different direction

RIP Harry Morgan. 96 years old. Amazing.

Or maybe he did learn, and wanted John to be as distraught as possible, so someone could catch him on the rebound, by, say, Doppleganger?

Oh right. That explains it. So, how'd that work out for 'ya? Huh?

[JT-2]

My goodness, I feel like crap. *Turns on Han Solo voice* "I feel terrible." [crud... now I'm not sure if the quote is "terrible" or "awful" or something else.... I used to have those movies memorized! Atlantis memorization has wiped out some of my Star Wars stuff. Oh noooo!]

The wiggleroom there is whether one views it as him being emotional over his good friend being disabled/dying or if he had deeper feelings towards her. The way it comes across (they could have easily cut that, or used a different take) makes it seem like at the very least he considers her a very good friend, like a sibling. Say what you like about how close he and Rodney are, but Rodney has been near death (in what looked like no-way-out situations) and the reaction was nothing like that.

I think that if we hadn't had the steady buildup of their relationship over the 3 years then it wouldn't have meant as much. Imagine it being Rodney and Teyla, for example. They'd shared so little screen time alone together that it would have looked more like friendship. However, with Sparky you've had 3 years of flirting and increased closeness as well as scenes of them looking out on the night sky off a balcony. Once you add all that in, his tears seem to signal something stronger than mere friendship. IMHO, of course.

I think (romance aside) John probably views Elizabeth as being a little too good for him, and finds her innocence somewhat endearing. Over the course of the few years, he was the one who (by default of the fact of where they were) was trying to drag her into his world. The fact that she was the one who was killed after that particular military exercise would've made it sting even more. Had it happened in another situation it mightn't have seemed like the knife was being twisted just that little bit more. She wasn't the one volunteering to head out every day and put their life on the line, her role was to stay at home and out of harm's way as much as was practical. Look at Lorne's reaction in Conversion when two members of his team die (bugger, I'm gonna have to file a report for use of that grenade....), or even Shep & Weir's reaction to Lorne's death in CDT. Dying on a mission is unfortunate, and tragic, but it isn't unexpected. Heck, even in Sanctuary, both Rodney and Carson deliberately shield her from the 'monster'. Not exactly the equivalent of Superman and Batman, but they felt the need to protect her. Rodney's treatment of her (in a crisis) is surprisingly heroic, and surprisingly selfless (in Progeny, he was the one who voiced concern over her linking with Niam - Rodney?!?). They viewed her as weak (I don't want to use that word, what I mean is incapable of defending herself physically) in a volative situation, and yet in the relative safety of Stargate Operations she was taken out. Being killed on home soil is especially tough.

This is always my argument against the whole reasoning of "well, it's realistic for some people to die." Because really, "realism" would dictate some of the front line team would die, not the ones safe and sound on Atlantis.

This was the first time since Hot Zone that they'd had a major disagreement, yet this time their reaction's (hers especially) seemed more personal than anything else. He'd not exactly disagreed when Ellis suggested he should be the one running Atlantis (rather surprising that he'd think a subordinate would do a better job but whatever). Seeing her on that stretcher would've, at the very least, been an "uh oh, I did that" moment

Yes, exactly. I thought John's interactions with Ellis were just bizarre. I don't know where any of that was coming from. There was a lot of OOCness going on there. Elizabeth saying she's going to quit? Yeah, right.

Or maybe he did learn, and wanted John to be as distraught as possible, so someone could catch him on the rebound, by, say, Doppleganger?

Well, isn't that the height of romance? Love on the rebound!! (she says with sarcasm)

Yes, it was going to be a huge SGA/Agatha Christie homage, with Otho to be revealed as the murderer. If the butler couldn't have Shep, then no one could

*snort*

They forgot that it's the little things that viewers notice. I also recall the kerfluffle over John's hair early on when the Air Force asked for it to be cut. Joe agreed but TPTB said no. That's the time, I believe, when Joe got the ride with the Thunderbirds.

Imagine Joe telling his mother that his bosses won't let him cut his hair, when she struggled with it for his entire youth. LOL!

[Falcon Horus]

This is always my argument against the whole reasoning of "well, it's realistic for some people to die." Because really, "realism" would dictate some of the front line team would die, not the ones safe and sound on Atlantis.

It's not that kind of realism... there's no other explanation for it, right?

CURSE YOU PTW!! CURSE YOU!!

[JT-2]

It's not that kind of realism... there's no other explanation for it, right?

CURSE YOU PTW!! CURSE YOU!!

I almost wrote in that paragraph about how realistic it is for the psychologist who never leaves the city to die in a dream.

FRAKKING PTW!!

[Falcon Horus]

I almost wrote in that paragraph about how realistic it is for the psychologist who never leaves the city to die in a dream.

I thought something was missing there...

[Southern Red]

My goodness, I feel like crap. *Turns on Han Solo voice* "I feel terrible." [crud... now I'm not sure if the quote is "terrible" or "awful" or something else.... I used to have those movies memorized! Atlantis memorization has wiped out some of my Star Wars stuff. Oh noooo!]



I think that if we hadn't had the steady buildup of their relationship over the 3 years then it wouldn't have meant as much. Imagine it being Rodney and Teyla, for example. They'd shared so little screen time alone together that it would have looked more like friendship. However, with Sparky you've had 3 years of flirting and increased closeness as well as scenes of them looking out on the night sky off a balcony. Once you add all that in, his tears seem to signal something stronger than mere friendship. IMHO, of course.

Exactly, like when Carson died in Sunday and suddenly Rodney was his BFF. There was a lot of complaining about that one. Now Carson and Teyla would have made sense. I would have loved a scene with Teyla and Elizabeth talking about Carson. Something like the scene with Ronon and Teyla packing up Elizabeth's stuff. I never understood why them. I'm sure it's the kind of task Teyla would have volunteered for, which would have emphasized that, contrary to the opinion of some, they were close friends. But wouldn't John have fit better than Ronon? Unless they were trying to avoid anything shippy. There is a lot of potential discussion about that idea. Like the time they decided not to let Teyla hug Carson for helping her with Charin. Can't 2 people be in a scene together without it seeming shippy? Well...no.

This is always my argument against the whole reasoning of "well, it's realistic for some people to die." Because really, "realism" would dictate some of the front line team would die, not the ones safe and sound on Atlantis.

Correct. Ford made sense, Elizabeth did not. Thus, they would say, making it even more shocking.

Yes, exactly. I thought John's interactions with Ellis were just bizarre. I don't know where any of that was coming from. There was a lot of OOCness going on there. Elizabeth saying she's going to quit? Yeah, right.

Let me see who wrote that one...Gero. Might have guessed. Explains a lot. By this time, I think he was so far off the reservation he was phoning his scripts in from Toronto.

Well, isn't that the height of romance? Love on the rebound!! (she says with sarcasm)

Imagine Joe telling his mother that his bosses won't let him cut his hair, when she struggled with it for his entire youth. LOL!

I'm sure she loves the hair stories on every project he works on.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday! And what are we talking about? One of the angstiest moments of the series. Oh, the irony.

The wiggleroom there is whether one views it as him being emotional over his good friend being disabled/dying or if he had deeper feelings towards her. The way it comes across (they could have easily cut that, or used a different take) makes it seem like at the very least he considers her a very good friend, like a sibling. Say what you like about how close he and Rodney are, but Rodney has been near death (in what looked like no-way-out situations) and the reaction was nothing like that.

I think (romance aside) John probably views Elizabeth as being a little too good for him, and finds her innocence somewhat endearing. Over the course of the few years, he was the one who (by default of the fact of where they were) was trying to drag her into his world. The fact that she was the one who was killed after that particular military exercise would've made it sting even more. Had it happened in another situation it mightn't have seemed like the knife was being twisted just that little bit more. She wasn't the one volunteering to head out every day and put their life on the line, her role was to stay at home and out of harm's way as much as was practical. Look at Lorne's reaction in Conversion when two members of his team die (bugger, I'm gonna have to file a report for use of that grenade....), or even Shep & Weir's reaction to Lorne's death in CDT. Dying on a mission is unfortunate, and tragic, but it isn't unexpected. Heck, even in Sanctuary, both Rodney and Carson deliberately shield her from the 'monster'. Not exactly the equivalent of Superman and Batman, but they felt the need to protect her. Rodney's treatment of her (in a crisis) is surprisingly heroic, and surprisingly selfless (in Progeny, he was the one who voiced concern over her linking with Niam - Rodney?!?). They viewed her as weak (I don't want to use that word, what I mean is incapable of defending herself physically) in a volative situation, and yet in the relative safety of Stargate Operations she was taken out. Being killed on home soil is especially tough.

This was the first time since Hot Zone that they'd had a major disagreement, yet this time their reaction's (hers especially) seemed more personal than anything else. He'd not exactly disagreed when Ellis suggested he should be the one running Atlantis (rather surprising that he'd think a subordinate would do a better job but whatever). Seeing her on that stretcher would've, at the very least, been an "uh oh, I did that" moment

Brilliant analysis, as always. I really, really want to see John's guilt explored more fully in SGA Rising. I also especially liked your observation about John possibly seeing Elizabeth as too good for him. I can totally see him feeling that way, especially after the previous screwups in his personal life, and I can well imagine that he wouldn't want to inflict that on her.

Or maybe he did learn, and wanted John to be as distraught as possible, so someone could catch him on the rebound, by, say, Doppleganger?

*snorts* Yeah, that didn't work so well. Heh.

They forgot that it's the little things that viewers notice. I also recall the kerfluffle over John's hair early on when the Air Force asked for it to be cut. Joe agreed but TPTB said no. That's the time, I believe, when Joe got the ride with the Thunderbirds.

As I recall, didn't he mention he puked on that ride, too? There was a delay of some sort, and Joe was hungry so he went to the dining hall for some chow, and then they went up and he puked? He always manages to whump himself in spectacular fashion!

My goodness, I feel like crap. *Turns on Han Solo voice* "I feel terrible." [crud... now I'm not sure if the quote is "terrible" or "awful" or something else.... I used to have those movies memorized! Atlantis memorization has wiped out some of my Star Wars stuff. Oh noooo!]

I hope you feel better soon!

As to the memorization, it's for Sparky moments, right? Well, that's okay then.

I think that if we hadn't had the steady buildup of their relationship over the 3 years then it wouldn't have meant as much. Imagine it being Rodney and Teyla, for example. They'd shared so little screen time alone together that it would have looked more like friendship. However, with Sparky you've had 3 years of flirting and increased closeness as well as scenes of them looking out on the night sky off a balcony. Once you add all that in, his tears seem to signal something stronger than mere friendship. IMHO, of course.

You betcha!

This is always my argument against the whole reasoning of "well, it's realistic for some people to die." Because really, "realism" would dictate some of the front line team would die, not the ones safe and sound on Atlantis.

To be honest, given how big a target Atlantis is, it's understandable that the city would be attacked and that someone who isn't normally on the front lines would be injured or killed. My objection to the situation with Weir is that the crappy writing of the FS trilogy ignored conventional wisdom, which dictates that those with greater expertise should have been able to help her and save her. Not to mention that sometimes in real life, things have happened to change what should have been tragedies into miracles. This is one of those moments where it would've made sense for there to be a miracle. Fail, PTW. FAIL.

Exactly, like when Carson died in Sunday and suddenly Rodney was his BFF. There was a lot of complaining about that one. Now Carson and Teyla would have made sense. I would have loved a scene with Teyla and Elizabeth talking about Carson. Something like the scene with Ronon and Teyla packing up Elizabeth's stuff. I never understood why them. I'm sure it's the kind of task Teyla would have volunteered for, which would have emphasized that, contrary to the opinion of some, they were close friends. But wouldn't John have fit better than Ronon? Unless they were trying to avoid anything shippy. There is a lot of potential discussion about that idea. Like the time they decided not to let Teyla hug Carson for helping her with Charin. Can't 2 people be in a scene together without it seeming shippy? Well...no.

Argh. I still think it should've been Carson to be Teyla's baby daddy. More PTW FAIL.

Let me see who wrote that one...Gero. Might have guessed. Explains a lot. By this time, I think he was so far off the reservation he was phoning his scripts in from Toronto.

Toronto's still too close. Maybe Antarctica?

I'm sure she loves the hair stories on every project he works on.

*cackles*

[JT-2]

Exactly, like when Carson died in Sunday and suddenly Rodney was his BFF. There was a lot of complaining about that one.

Definitely! To me that was a "wait.... what?!" moment. I would have bought that in season 1 but not by Sunday.

Now Carson and Teyla would have made sense. I would have loved a scene with Teyla and Elizabeth talking about Carson.

They failed in putting the two women together in general, although they were getting better by season 3. But yes, that would have been great. Another argument against the "realism" factor is that people are almost never discussed again after they die. That's not how it happens in my world. Mallozzi's explanation for why Rodney was so cheery about taking over Elizabeth's job in Reunion was that it had been 2 months. What???? If that's how these PTW are in real life, then I weep for them. Heck, we still talk about my dad who's been gone more than 20 years now. I think that's more realistic then their approach of "it's done, move on."

Sorry, got into a bit of a rant there.

Something like the scene with Ronon and Teyla packing up Elizabeth's stuff. I never understood why them. I'm sure it's the kind of task Teyla would have volunteered for, which would have emphasized that, contrary to the opinion of some, they were close friends. But wouldn't John have fit better than Ronon? Unless they were trying to avoid anything shippy. There is a lot of potential discussion about that idea. Like the time they decided not to let Teyla hug Carson for helping her with Charin. Can't 2 people be in a scene together without it seeming shippy? Well...no.

And they realize that a hug would seem shippy, but never thought that the Siege hug could be construed that way?

They could have gone with having Ronon and Teyla hooking up after that scene in Lifeline.

Correct. Ford made sense, Elizabeth did not. Thus, they would say, making it even more shocking.

One person is shock. A long line is a massacre that is unpleasant to watch.

Let me see who wrote that one...Gero. Might have guessed. Explains a lot. By this time, I think he was so far off the reservation he was phoning his scripts in from Toronto.

ROTFL!! He didn't have Wright "overseeing" his scripts anymore. I am convinced Wright is the one who put all the good Sparky stuff into Gero's episodes. I don't think Wright shipped them, but I think he realized that they worked.

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday! And what are we talking about? One of the angstiest moments of the series. Oh, the irony.



Brilliant analysis, as always. I really, really want to see John's guilt explored more fully in SGA Rising. I also especially liked your observation about John possibly seeing Elizabeth as too good for him. I can totally see him feeling that way, especially after the previous screwups in his personal life, and I can well imagine that he wouldn't want to inflict that on her.

I see that as well. I've read that in many stories as well, so it seems to be a popular theory.

And yes, guilt in SGA Rising. I can't wait for more episodes!!!!!!!!!!! WANTS LIZZIE EPISODES SO BAD. Ahem.

As I recall, didn't he mention he puked on that ride, too? There was a delay of some sort, and Joe was hungry so he went to the dining hall for some chow, and then they went up and he puked? He always manages to whump himself in spectacular fashion!

David did that in Runner as well - eating right before a stunt where they'd TOLD him not to eat. What's wrong with these silly boys?

I hope you feel better soon!

As to the memorization, it's for Sparky moments, right? Well, that's okay then.

Thanks! I took a nap and feel much better now.

And yes, Sparky is love.

To be honest, given how big a target Atlantis is, it's understandable that the city would be attacked and that someone who isn't normally on the front lines would be injured or killed. My objection to the situation with Weir is that the crappy writing of the FS trilogy ignored conventional wisdom, which dictates that those with greater expertise should have been able to help her and save her. Not to mention that sometimes in real life, things have happened to change what should have been tragedies into miracles. This is one of those moments where it would've made sense for there to be a miracle. Fail, PTW. FAIL.

Spot on.

Argh. I still think it should've been Carson to be Teyla's baby daddy. More PTW FAIL.

The angst that could have led to is spectacular. Imagine clone!Carson finding a pregnant Teyla in Kindred.

[=youtube;dGqsMruPjlM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGqsMruPjlM[/video]

That always reminds me of Erin87's story Untamable or a tale of John Sheppard's hair

[Scary Kitty]

They failed in putting the two women together in general, although they were getting better by season 3. But yes, that would have been great. Another argument against the "realism" factor is that people are almost never discussed again after they die. That's not how it happens in my world. Mallozzi's explanation for why Rodney was so cheery about taking over Elizabeth's job in Reunion was that it had been 2 months. What???? If that's how these PTW are in real life, then I weep for them. Heck, we still talk about my dad who's been gone more than 20 years now. I think that's more realistic then their approach of "it's done, move on."

Sorry, got into a bit of a rant there.

Oh, by all means, rant on.

And they realize that a hug would seem shippy, but never thought that the Siege hug could be construed that way?

*snorts*

ROTFL!! He didn't have Wright "overseeing" his scripts anymore. I am convinced Wright is the one who put all the good Sparky stuff into Gero's episodes. I don't think Wright shipped them, but I think he realized that they worked.

*snorts some more* If Wright thought that they worked, then he should've kept working on Atlantis and gotten them together instead of abandoning Atlantis midstride to develop SGU. Sorry Brad, but you blew it on that score.

I see that as well. I've read that in many stories as well, so it seems to be a popular theory.

And yes, guilt in SGA Rising. I can't wait for more episodes!!!!!!!!!!! WANTS LIZZIE EPISODES SO BAD. Ahem.

We want 'em too! *flails* We're working on it, don't worry.

The angst that could have led to is spectacular. Imagine clone!Carson finding a pregnant Teyla in Kindred.

*cackles* Exactly.

That always reminds me of Erin87's story Untamable or a tale of John Sheppard's hair

I think that one may actually have been inspired by the video.