Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Exactly. *nods*



I wish we could've seen more of it, too. Take the gloves off and let John run amok already! Of course, we got a glimpse of it even when Elizabeth was around. Let's not forget what he did in The Eye.

forgot about his "John McClane/Die Hard" act in the Eye. but like you said that was only a glimpse, you gotta wonder if push came to shove and John was to really let loose how "Dark" a guy he can really become.

[mandogater]

I'm easy to please. Don't worry.

I'm normally my own worst critic and this one is bringing it more than normal for some reason.

After seeing the newest pic, I agree with everybody, you looked very adorkable there.

[gateraid]

Exactly. *nods*



I wish we could've seen more of it, too. Take the gloves off and let John run amok already! Of course, we got a glimpse of it even when Elizabeth was around. Let's not forget what he did in The Eye.

While I don't think it needed to be in that episode (there was no place for it, and the change of pace would have been incredibly jarring) it's surprising that there wasn't a conversation about what had transpired. I imagine that would've been the first time Elizabeth had been directly involved in a combat situation (okay, there was TLC, the darts in Rising, but it would've likely been the first time she'd actually witnessed somebody be killed), or even heard of somebody going on a killing spree like Shep did. It can be mitigated somewhat by the fact that most were via the shield (like bugs on a windshield) but either way, a lot of people died by his hand. She must've questioned what he was capable after that.

[gateraid]

I wonder.....if you look at the above example, then look at Critical Mass, perhaps that's an indication of where Weir sees each of them. It's not unbelievable to her that he would act in that manner - after all, that's what he's trained for - but it is a shock when she starts to act that way. TPTW copped out by having Kav faint instead of Ronon smacking the smartass right out of him, but that doesn't change that the order/consent was still issued.

And then.....perhaps that's an indication of where Sheppard sees her. He was the one who came to see her afterwards, trying to reassure her. Would it be reaching to suggest that he didn't want her to slip too far into his world?

[Soulster]

And I'm a goofball again... I'm looking a lot like this smiley here -> <- which was entirely not my intention... so hopefully no goofing up this weekend.

It's not that bad ... at least you got to be there with her ... Oh and I absolutely love Torri's shirt.

[Southern Red]

Heehee!



Heh! Yeah, living out in SoCal definitely thins the blood.



Yep yep. I can't tell you how many times I see the "Shep was sooooo OOC in S4-5" whining and I just want to laugh my butt off. Geeze, were they even watching the same show we were?



OMG.

Spoiler:

Is that out on DVD yet? And fear? FEAR?!?!?! I MUST see this!

It's out but sold out already on Amazon. LOL They didn't take the JF fans into account, I wager.

i hate when people say that characters were acting out of character. in season 4-5, we got to see a different side of John Sheppard.

We saw Joe Portray a John that was on the verge of tears in "Adrift" to getting Henry Wallace to become wraith food in "Miller's Crossing" to pointing a gun at Jervis's head and asking him "Give me one reason why he [John] shouldn't blow the guy's head [Jervis] off." in "Outsiders" to an Alternate Reality version of John where John was a cop and had a gambling problem and was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force in "Vegas" and i liked it.

The Writers gave us a more darker look at john sheppard than we were used to seeing. I think that without Elizabeth around, the guy really does have a dark side that i wish we could've seen more of.

Very good summary, and oh so correct. I guess some people want him to never change. But they still can't explain his dark side as early as S1. Like you guys discussed, he did all sorts of things that gave us a whole new side of the character. I didn't see anybody complain that he was OOC when he killed those Genii in TE.

Exactly. *nods*



I wish we could've seen more of it, too. Take the gloves off and let John run amok already! Of course, we got a glimpse of it even when Elizabeth was around. Let's not forget what he did in The Eye.

See what I mean. There were lots of moments in the first 3 seasons when John stepped up and used his warrior training. He could be ruthless when it was called for.

I wonder.....if you look at the above example, then look at Critical Mass, perhaps that's an indication of where Weir sees each of them. It's not unbelievable to her that he would act in that manner - after all, that's what he's trained for - but it is a shock when she starts to act that way. TPTW copped out by having Kav faint instead of Ronon smacking the smartass right out of him, but that doesn't change that the order/consent was still issued.

And then.....perhaps that's an indication of where Sheppard sees her. He was the one who came to see her afterwards, trying to reassure her. Would it be reaching to suggest that he didn't want her to slip too far into his world?

If John had gone much further, I can't imagine how much talk that he should be court martialed would be around. There is still discussion going on about his killing Bob in cold blood, and sending Ronon to torture Kav, though Elizabeth gets conveniently blamed for that one. And let's not forget all the time he threatened to kill poor innocent Todd. *extreme sarcasm*

As for your last statement, I wish they had shown John being more protective of her. In S4-5 we can say he was always volunteering for the dangerous missions, like flying the jumper in to save Keller in The Seed, because he felt he had nothing left to live for, But removing the shippy glasses, we have to say that it was consistent with his behavior throughout all 5 seasons. He was the most trained and the most likely to come out alive, pure and simple. Maybe that's why he went into a part of the military that gave him extra special ops training. If he was going to do it, he wanted the odds to be on his side that he would be successful and survive. Not that he had a death wish.

[JT-2]

Very good summary, and oh so correct. I guess some people want him to never change. But they still can't explain his dark side as early as S1. Like you guys discussed, he did all sorts of things that gave us a whole new side of the character. I didn't see anybody complain that he was OOC when he killed those Genii in TE.

Spoiler:

They're just upset that Elizabeth's "deaths" affected him so much. They want him to be happily off making babies with a woman who already chose a man, reproduced with him, and is living with him.

See what I mean. There were lots of moments in the first 3 seasons when John stepped up and used his warrior training. He could be ruthless when it was called for.

But then he was joking around afterwards with Elizabeth at the end of The Eye. He bounced back to happy much quicker back then. But it makes sense that as more and more loss was piled on top of him that eventually he wouldn't be able to bounce back, especially when he lost someone like Elizabeth that he could share his burden of leadership with.

If John had gone much further, I can't imagine how much talk that he should be court martialed would be around. There is still discussion going on about his killing Bob in cold blood, and sending Ronon to torture Kav, though Elizabeth gets conveniently blamed for that one. And let's not forget all the time he threatened to kill poor innocent Todd. *extreme sarcasm*

You win the sarcasm of the day award. You're right, though.

As for your last statement, I wish they had shown John being more protective of her. In S4-5 we can say he was always volunteering for the dangerous missions, like flying the jumper in to save Keller in The Seed, because he felt he had nothing left to live for, But removing the shippy glasses, we have to say that it was consistent with his behavior throughout all 5 seasons. He was the most trained and the most likely to come out alive, pure and simple. Maybe that's why he went into a part of the military that gave him extra special ops training. If he was going to do it, he wanted the odds to be on his side that he would be successful and survive. Not that he had a death wish.

Exactly! Thank you.

[Southern Red]

I just had an epiphany while cleaning my bathrooms. Here's some logic. They said they didn't go with Spanky because it was "too obvious." Can it be possible that they didn't go with Sparky for the same reason?

So we have writers who don't care that the vast majority of fans who care about shipping wanted those two couples to be together. For the sake of being "different", they chose ships that were vastly less popular. And even then, aside from the occasional anvil that made everybody go "WTF?", they did nothing. That kind of thinking explains a lot when you look at the show overall, I guess.

OT musing.

Spoiler:

How pathetic would it be if an English teacher lost a word game to someone who calls herself "mathgirl?" Just wonderin'.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday! Though it seems the topic of the moment isn't exactly fluffy...

I wonder.....if you look at the above example, then look at Critical Mass, perhaps that's an indication of where Weir sees each of them. It's not unbelievable to her that he would act in that manner - after all, that's what he's trained for - but it is a shock when she starts to act that way. TPTW copped out by having Kav faint instead of Ronon smacking the smartass right out of him, but that doesn't change that the order/consent was still issued.

And then.....perhaps that's an indication of where Sheppard sees her. He was the one who came to see her afterwards, trying to reassure her. Would it be reaching to suggest that he didn't want her to slip too far into his world?

I don't think that's reaching at all. Plus, I think he just wants to make sure they're both okay with each other after what happened.

It's out but sold out already on Amazon. LOL They didn't take the JF fans into account, I wager.

Of course, there are other places to get it.

If John had gone much further, I can't imagine how much talk that he should be court martialed would be around. There is still discussion going on about his killing Bob in cold blood, and sending Ronon to torture Kav, though Elizabeth gets conveniently blamed for that one. And let's not forget all the time he threatened to kill poor innocent Todd. *extreme sarcasm*

*snorts* Gee, and wasn't it John and Ronon who were the ones who brought up the idea of beating up Kav in the first place? How convenient.

As for your last statement, I wish they had shown John being more protective of her. In S4-5 we can say he was always volunteering for the dangerous missions, like flying the jumper in to save Keller in The Seed, because he felt he had nothing left to live for, But removing the shippy glasses, we have to say that it was consistent with his behavior throughout all 5 seasons. He was the most trained and the most likely to come out alive, pure and simple. Maybe that's why he went into a part of the military that gave him extra special ops training. If he was going to do it, he wanted the odds to be on his side that he would be successful and survive. Not that he had a death wish.

Exactly. He's the military commander. It's his job, he's got the best training and the most experience with all that Pegasus can throw at you.

Plus, it's a TV show, and he's the headlining star at the top of the cast list. Of course John's going to get the call. It's Hollywood, you silly naysayers.

Spoiler:

They're just upset that Elizabeth's "deaths" affected him so much. They want him to be happily off making babies with a woman who already chose a man, reproduced with him, and is living with him.

Spoiler:

Even though it would require committing character assassination with both of those characters, completely lobotomizing them and destroying Sheppard's honor.

I just had an epiphany while cleaning my bathrooms. Here's some logic. They said they didn't go with Spanky because it was "too obvious." Can it be possible that they didn't go with Sparky for the same reason?

So we have writers who don't care that the vast majority of fans who care about shipping wanted those two couples to be together. For the sake of being "different", they chose ships that were vastly less popular. And even then, aside from the occasional anvil that made everybody go "WTF?", they did nothing. That kind of thinking explains a lot when you look at the show overall, I guess.

OT musing.

Spoiler:

How pathetic would it be if an English teacher lost a word game to someone who calls herself "mathgirl?" Just wonderin'.

Indeed it does. A good writer has to be willing to be flexible and change plans if something better comes up. TPTW didn't do that.

As to the OT...

[Southern Red]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday! Though it seems the topic of the moment isn't exactly fluffy...



I don't think that's reaching at all. Plus, I think he just wants to make sure they're both okay with each other after what happened.



Of course, there are other places to get it.



*snorts* Gee, and wasn't it John and Ronon who were the ones who brought up the idea of beating up Kav in the first place? How convenient.



Exactly. He's the military commander. It's his job, he's got the best training and the most experience with all that Pegasus can throw at you.

Plus, it's a TV show, and he's the headlining star at the top of the cast list. Of course John's going to get the call. It's Hollywood, you silly naysayers.

Spoiler:

Even though it would require committing character assassination with both of those characters, completely lobotomizing them and destroying Sheppard's honor.

Indeed it does. A good writer has to be willing to be flexible and change plans if something better comes up. TPTW didn't do that.

As to the OT...

You mean like certain characters have been lobotomized in certain fanfiction that's being passed off as canon. LOL

Well, actually the writers were flexible in S4, considering the situation. They came up with something better but didn't do a very good job with it. Unlike what we're doing in SGA Rising.

BTW, even as we speak, steps are being taken to post the next episode. Watch for an announcement. Soon.

And how much longer until SparkyCon?

[JT-2]

I just had an epiphany while cleaning my bathrooms. Here's some logic. They said they didn't go with Spanky because it was "too obvious." Can it be possible that they didn't go with Sparky for the same reason?

So we have writers who don't care that the vast majority of fans who care about shipping wanted those two couples to be together. For the sake of being "different", they chose ships that were vastly less popular. And even then, aside from the occasional anvil that made everybody go "WTF?", they did nothing. That kind of thinking explains a lot when you look at the show overall, I guess.

OT musing.

Spoiler:

How pathetic would it be if an English teacher lost a word game to someone who calls herself "mathgirl?" Just wonderin'.

Your logic makes a lot of sense to me. They obviously knew Sparky and Spanky were popular because they put so many scenes in with those couples. Plus Sparky has the whole leading man/leading woman trope that's so common.

Don't want to get burned for OT-ness, so...

Spoiler:

And even though they said they were supporting another ship, they never made that clear on screen. The only 2 anvils that are blatantly obvious to me are the necklace scene in Rising and the dinner in Search & Rescue. If I'd never become involved in fandom, those are the only 2 scenes I would have ever considered to be supporting that ship. Being involved in fandom, I know that scenes in Sunday were intended to show that ship but it didn't come off on screen. Just visit the general threads and see for yourself. And the dream in S & R can be explained away pretty easily. For example, [OT-ness ahead] I had a dream the other night about the host of a travel show. We were married and had a little girl and we all traveled together. Ironically, the face he made to me where I knew how much he loved me was the same smiling happy face John makes at the end of TRW. Anyway, does this prove I'm in love with this man? I certainly hope not as a) he's married, b) I don't know him, c) he's much older than I am, and d) even if a-c weren't true, he's out of my league completely.


Oh SR, it would be really hilarious if I beat you. Revenge of the math nerds!

Plus, it's a TV show, and he's the headlining star at the top of the cast list. Of course John's going to get the call. It's Hollywood, you silly naysayers.

Exactly!! Although it seemed like Rodney had top billing by the end. I love Rodney. Please don't misunderstand. I just wanted a little less of him.

You mean like certain characters have been lobotomized in certain fanfiction that's being passed off as canon. LOL

Well, actually the writers were flexible in S4, considering the situation. They came up with something better but didn't do a very good job with it. Unlike what we're doing in SGA Rising.

BTW, even as we speak, steps are being taken to post the next episode. Watch for an announcement. Soon.

And how much longer until SparkyCon?

Intentional repost.

2 days until SparkyCon!!

cheerleader.gif sparkyflowercoupleli4.gif sparky_simplelove.gif KISSxSparky.gif


And I'm so excited about a new episode of SGA Rising!! Which episode is going to be next?

[Southern Red]

Your logic makes a lot of sense to me. They obviously knew Sparky and Spanky were popular because they put so many scenes in with those couples. Plus Sparky has the whole leading man/leading woman trope that's so common.

Don't want to get burned for OT-ness, so...

Spoiler:

And even though they said they were supporting another ship, they never made that clear on screen. The only 2 anvils that are blatantly obvious to me are the necklace scene in Rising and the dinner in Search & Rescue. If I'd never become involved in fandom, those are the only 2 scenes I would have ever considered to be supporting that ship. Being involved in fandom, I know that scenes in Sunday were intended to show that ship but it didn't come off on screen. Just visit the general threads and see for yourself. And the dream in S & R can be explained away pretty easily. For example, [OT-ness ahead] I had a dream the other night about the host of a travel show. We were married and had a little girl and we all traveled together. Ironically, the face he made to me where I knew how much he loved me was the same smiling happy face John makes at the end of TRW. Anyway, does this prove I'm in love with this man? I certainly hope not as a) he's married, b) I don't know him, c) he's much older than I am, and d) even if a-c weren't true, he's out of my league completely.

Well my dear, logic seems to have had little to do with it. LOL But yeah, if their chosen ship had been so obvious, more gen fans would have seen it. I mean just look at the new people on the forum who haven't even mentioned it.

Spoiler:

Oh SR, it would be really hilarious if I beat you. Revenge of the math nerds!

You have been given the lucky letters. *pokes tongue out*

And I'm so excited about a new episode of SGA Rising!! Which episode is going to be next?

Evolution is next. First Year has been dropped for now.

[Scary Kitty]

You mean like certain characters have been lobotomized in certain fanfiction that's being passed off as canon. LOL

Well, actually the writers were flexible in S4, considering the situation. They came up with something better but didn't do a very good job with it. Unlike what we're doing in SGA Rising.

BTW, even as we speak, steps are being taken to post the next episode. Watch for an announcement. Soon.

Yeah, that seems to be how it always was with the show. Came up with something that was "good enough," but it really could've been better with just a bit more work.

SGA Rising for the win! This train is getting ready to leave the station! All aboard!

And how much longer until SparkyCon?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...q3dvo6_250.gif

Ahhh, I could watch that scene ALL DAY.

Well my dear, logic seems to have had little to do with it. LOL But yeah, if their chosen ship had been so obvious, more gen fans would have seen it. I mean just look at the new people on the forum who haven't even mentioned it.

*snerks*

Evolution is next. First Year has been dropped for now.

Well, more like it's being moved to a new spot in the lineup. But yeah, it'll be a while before we see it.

And just wait'll you see what's coming in Evolution. Heheheh...

[gateraid]

Re the don't-ship-the-obvious discussion, I often think it comes back to them not having a plan, at least not a solid one. My assumption is that they guessed they were going to get five seasons, which is what they'd planned on for SGU and written their episodes accordingly (that's why s1 was comparatively slow), and what they imagined they'd get out of SG-1.

They've tended to shy away from romance in the past. Using SG-1 as an example, they only introduced S/J in the fourth of what they assumed would be five seasons. I suspect (I may be being cynical) that if they'd realised the show was going to last ten years, they'd have done the romance arc in s8, and had that be the reason he left.

So while I *headdesk* at them not seeing the potential of some obvious (IMO) ships and chemistry, it doesn't really surprise me that they didn't do anything initially. I've said before that it's my opinion s4 would've been the start of Sheyla (probably some massive anvils, with RST in s5), which kinda fits in with the 100eps theory. Can you imagine what would've happened with McKeller if they'd gotten renewed?

The other thing which has been bandied about at times is that Teyla and Ronon were more like siblings. It grew into that, but it didn't start out like that IMO. BUT, if one is to go with the notion that Teyla had a romantic interest in Sheppard (whether she was aware of it or not) then it's not inconceivable that while she got close to Ronon, she wasn't attracted to him

EDIT: Heh, still the glitch. Fifty-nine guests?

EDIT #2: In under 30secs, it's down to twenty-three

[Scary Kitty]

Re the don't-ship-the-obvious discussion, I often think it comes back to them not having a plan, at least not a solid one. My assumption is that they guessed they were going to get five seasons, which is what they'd planned on for SGU and written their episodes accordingly (that's why s1 was comparatively slow), and what they imagined they'd get out of SG-1.

They've tended to shy away from romance in the past. Using SG-1 as an example, they only introduced S/J in the fourth of what they assumed would be five seasons. I suspect (I may be being cynical) that if they'd realised the show was going to last ten years, they'd have done the romance arc in s8, and had that be the reason he left.

So while I *headdesk* at them not seeing the potential of some obvious (IMO) ships and chemistry, it doesn't really surprise me that they didn't do anything initially. I've said before that it's my opinion s4 would've been the start of Sheyla (probably some massive anvils, with RST in s5), which kinda fits in with the 100eps theory. Can you imagine what would've happened with McKeller if they'd gotten renewed?

The other thing which has been bandied about at times is that Teyla and Ronon were more like siblings. It grew into that, but it didn't start out like that IMO. BUT, if one is to go with the notion that Teyla had a romantic interest in Sheppard (whether she was aware of it or not) then it's not inconceivable that while she got close to Ronon, she wasn't attracted to him

I don't know about SG-1 or SGU, but as far as SGA is concerned, it's my understanding that all of the original regular cast members (Flanigan, Higginson, Francks, Luttrell, and Hewlett) signed six year contracts, so TPTW were clearly anticipating six years, not five. I came up with the 100 episodes theory only during Season 4, when matters behind the scenes were clearly taking a turn for the worse, though it wouldn't surprise me if other fans were thinking along those lines as well.

That said, the points about TPTW's long-standing reluctance to commit to anything ship-wise, their lack of sufficient long-term planning and their inability to adapt to last-minute changes are well founded.

EDIT: Heh, still the glitch. Fifty-nine guests?

EDIT #2: In under 30secs, it's down to twenty-three

Down to 10 guests now. Gee, was it something we said?