Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I know he said Vega was gay, but I believe that he also said that a prominent male supporting cast member's character was also gay. I figured it was Lorne as soon as I heard that.

Personally I was never much of a fan of the idea of Lorne being gay either. I dunno, maybe it's just me but I'd prefer they tell us if they wrote a character as gay. I believe he said his idea was the just let everyone assume that the character was heterosexual and then just . I dunno, to me intentionally creating a false impression for most of the show about a character that just irritates me. I'd have preferred the gay character be one of the more recent ones.

As far as Vega goes I'm of two minds. First of all saying a character is gay immediately after pointlessly killing them off is incredibly lame. But at the time I never really had a problem with her dying in Whispers. I seem to recall her being the "replacement" for Major Teldy, who was supposed to die in that episode. I actually liked the Teldy character better than her, so I wasn't too disappointed, myself. But later I learned that she had a whole slew of scenes that were cut in previous episodes, so as it stands she was made out to be like she was going to be a noteworthy character, but then they cut out everything that implied she was going to be semi-important and then killed her off. What was the point of that?

I saw they actually filmed a scene of her asking Keller out on a date. It was in the deleted scenes of the Season 5 DVD set I think. The scene itself was actually sort of funny. Keller said yes, but didn't seemed to realize she just agreed to go on a lesbian date. But I honestly have no idea why they'd suddenly change Vega from being kind of important to a throwaway redshirt that many people may not have even noticed, her role was so short.

[gateraid]

Favorites:

1. Before I Sleep
2. Critical Mass
3. Tao of Rodney
4. Lifeline
5. The Prodigal


Least favorites:

1. Sanctuary
2. The Tower
3. The Ark
4. Quarantine
5. Inquisition


I could probably name a close second on each of these as well. Which means I might give you a totally different set of answers tomorrow. Well, except for Inquisition. Worst of the series for me.

Me too. So hard to pick just one, good or bad


I'm going to spoil everything here, but it's all off topic, so:

Spoiler:

Assuming that you aren't joking, you must not have visited that gay character thread. I ultimately did not participate because from what I can tell, that entire thread long ago degenerated into spamming that one exact phrase over and over again.

I went there when it first opened, but kinda forgot about it. Seemed like a non-issue really - JM pretty much said it didn't matter as far as the character goes, and hadn't seen any point in hanging a lantern on it.

Plus there's the fact that Mallozzi seems to routinely engage in deliberately baiting the fans. There's just no telling whether or not he's being truthful in this case.

There's that too. That's what I assumed he was doing when he raised the issue the first time. And all he said in the quotations from his blog was that Lorne had some personal revelations. He may be an alcoholic. Or he eats paint.

NOOOOO Haven't you read deal with the devil stories? John's gonna say yes (though I DOUBT in canon he would trust an snake like Kolya) and have one year to go in and out of storage closets with Elizabeth before Kolya can have his wicked way with him. He survives of course.

And by wicked way, are you referring to torture?

That seems like old news to me.

Spoiler:

He was definitely having something with Parrish

You can ramble as much as you want! Welcome BTW

Spoiler:

Who is Parrish? Is that a fan fiction made up character, or did he appear on the show?

i thought they said that Captain Vega (Search and Rescue, Whispers) was the one that was gay. and i refuse to believe that lorne is gay. that's just wrong.

That's right, they did say it was Vega. Argh, this is so annoying.

Don't forget there's a deleted scene on the Season 5 DVD's that hints very heavily at that.

If we had gotten a season 6, it would have been interesting to see how they would have played another gay US military character considering don't ask, don't tell was still in effect when it would have been filmed.

In the extras/deleted stuff for S & R, Vega asks Keller out. According to the blog of doom, she was supposed to have a bigger role in the series, which would've made her death slightly more shocking. Or even a little bit surprising.

It's my understanding that even with the DADT rule, it wasn't an issue until the senior officer became aware of it - hence why it's don't ask and don't tell, since once it becomes 'known' then action has to be taken. So they could've had a gay officer if they wanted to, so long as the other officers were not aware of the gayness.

I think it's likely that JM just made it up. The stuff with Vega was shot but not used. My guess is that turning the love triangle (McKay/Keller/Ronon) into a love quadrangle would've been a step too far

[gateraid]

I know he said Vega was gay, but I believe that he also said that a prominent male supporting cast member's character was also gay. I figured it was Lorne as soon as I heard that.

Personally I was never much of a fan of the idea of Lorne being gay either. I dunno, maybe it's just me but I'd prefer they tell us if they wrote a character as gay. I believe he said his idea was the just let everyone assume that the character was heterosexual and then just . I dunno, to me intentionally creating a false impression for most of the show about a character that just irritates me. I'd have preferred the gay character be one of the more recent ones.

As far as Vega goes I'm of two minds. First of all saying a character is gay immediately after pointlessly killing them off is incredibly lame. But at the time I never really had a problem with her dying in Whispers. I seem to recall her being the "replacement" for Major Teldy, who was supposed to die in that episode. I actually liked the Teldy character better than her, so I wasn't too disappointed, myself. But later I learned that she had a whole slew of scenes that were cut in previous episodes, so as it stands she was made out to be like she was going to be a noteworthy character, but then they cut out everything that implied she was going to be semi-important and then killed her off. What was the point of that?

I saw they actually filmed a scene of her asking Keller out on a date. It was in the deleted scenes of the Season 5 DVD set I think. The scene itself was actually sort of funny. Keller said yes, but didn't seemed to realize she just agreed to go on a lesbian date. But I honestly have no idea why they'd suddenly change Vega from being kind of important to a throwaway redshirt that many people may not have even noticed, her role was so short.

I didn't realise they'd shot more than the 'date' scene with Vega. That puts things in a different light - I wonder what changed their mind on the character in general (not related to her sexuality). It's an odd thing to do to add someone in, then cut all their stuff out.

[gateraid]

Here's my way of getting things slightly more on topic






Did you hear? Apparently one of the military is gay!

I bet the rumour mill is running wild with that one

Don't worry, you're not in consideration. I told the SGC that with the amount of sex we've been having lately, there's no way it could be you

Thanks....I think

[Southern Red]

I've been doing some digging. Some of you may have suspected it, but according to Mr Mullozi

Spoiler:

Lorne is gay!!!

I know, that's old news, but I only just found out.

LOL. He's an artist. He's got to be gay. *sarcasm* That's how TPTB think.

The whole DADT thing is very humorous to me, knowing so many military people as I do. There are tons of gay service people. Pretty much everybody knows who they are and nobody cares except a few mindless bigots. The military is like a small town. Everybody knows everybody else's business, unless it's top secret. They also know who's having an affair with whom, and unless it impacts on their job or national security, nobody says a thing. Some members of the press over here, who like to smear the military for any little thing, just go out and find crap to confirm their widely held misconceptions.

My problem with it on the show would be if they didn't start out gay, but suddenly contracted it mid episode for expediency's sake. Or because it's trendy to have a gay cast member or storyline. Badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

[JT-2]

Thanks for all the virtual hugs and sympathy. The memorial was a very nice service (if a little long - 2 hours of sitting in church pews had my back screaming at me).

I was thinking about this last night. If they wanted to be bold, they could have had the Athosians in charge of Atlantis after Earth abandoned it. Teyla could be in charge, and pissed at the expedition for leaving.

Oooh, that's a great idea!!

Favorites:

1. Before I Sleep
2. Critical Mass
3. Tao of Rodney
4. Lifeline
5. The Prodigal


Least favorites:

1. Sanctuary
2. The Tower
3. The Ark
4. Quarantine
5. Inquisition


I could probably name a close second on each of these as well. Which means I might give you a totally different set of answers tomorrow. Well, except for Inquisition. Worst of the series for me.

Yeah, some of my answers change as well. When I found the spreadsheet where I'd originally ranked the episodes I had The Eye and Siege 3 as my favorites. I changed them for BIS and Conversion. Some of them are set in stone, though.

Critical Mass is also a favorite of mine. The Ark bored me while Quarantine had me rolling my eyes quite a bit (and screaming at Teyla to get her pregnant self OFF the ledge). Inquisition just showed how badly the show needed Elizabeth.

LOL. He's an artist. He's got to be gay. *sarcasm* That's how TPTB think.

The whole DADT thing is very humorous to me, knowing so many military people as I do. There are tons of gay service people. Pretty much everybody knows who they are and nobody cares except a few mindless bigots. The military is like a small town. Everybody knows everybody else's business, unless it's top secret. They also know who's having an affair with whom, and unless it impacts on their job or national security, nobody says a thing. Some members of the press over here, who like to smear the military for any little thing, just go out and find crap to confirm their widely held misconceptions.

My problem with it on the show would be if they didn't start out gay, but suddenly contracted it mid episode for expediency's sake. Or because it's trendy to have a gay cast member or storyline. Badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

Get out of my head!!!! That's exactly why I don't like thinking Lorne is gay either. It's so damn stereotypical. Oh, he's an artist. That must mean he's gay. Oh, come on!!

And I agree that Mallozzi was just trying to be trendy by saying there was a gay cast member. He didn't have the courage to actually put it in an episode, though. You can't take what TPTB say as canon. What's on screen is canon. Period.

[Southern Red]

Thanks for all the virtual hugs and sympathy. The memorial was a very nice service (if a little long - 2 hours of sitting in church pews had my back screaming at me).



Oooh, that's a great idea!!



Yeah, some of my answers change as well. When I found the spreadsheet where I'd originally ranked the episodes I had The Eye and Siege 3 as my favorites. I changed them for BIS and Conversion. Some of them are set in stone, though.

Critical Mass is also a favorite of mine. The Ark bored me while Quarantine had me rolling my eyes quite a bit (and screaming at Teyla to get her pregnant self OFF the ledge). Inquisition just showed how badly the show needed Elizabeth.




Get out of my head!!!! That's exactly why I don't like thinking Lorne is gay either. It's so damn stereotypical. Oh, he's an artist. That must mean he's gay. Oh, come on!!

And I agree that Mallozzi was just trying to be trendy by saying there was a gay cast member. He didn't have the courage to actually put it in an episode, though. You can't take what TPTB say as canon. What's on screen is canon. Period.

Exactly. But, to be fair, the network may have had a big say in the decision also.

And what's on screen is canon, even if some viewers did seem to be getting a feed from an alternate universe. LOL

[JT-2]

Exactly. But, to be fair, the network may have had a big say in the decision also.

And what's on screen is canon, even if some viewers did seem to be getting a feed from an alternate universe. LOL

Very true. Some people's feed had every male on the whole expedition being gay. Others had Elizabeth as the Evil Dictator who was out to rule the universe.

I prefer my feed where Sparky was cute and flirty and angsty and lovely.

Spoiler:

Clearly, he doesn't like her...


And doesn't trust her decisions...


And didn't want her back...


And didn't mourn her loss.


Oh, and clearly Elizabeth was a horrible diplomat and leader...

She went into enemy territory alone. Blindfolded and bound with nothing the enemy wanted or needed, she still managed to get what she wanted. But that means nothing, I suppose.


Giving up your life for the city and expedition? I suppose that's worthless as well.


Nor does mind frelling a replicator.


Or translating the Wraith language.


Or defeating nanites by sheer will.

[Southern Red]

More cute and flirty.

Spoiler:

That was just a few I have in my photobucket album. And this one is a bonus.

Spoiler:

[JT-2]

Very nice, SR!

That Return 1 scene was SO flirty.

Spoiler:

Since when do you sleep?
Subtext: We never actually got to "sleep" back on Atlantis.



Since I got back. I've had a lot of catching up to do.
Subtext: John, you were wearing me out.



[thinking] Yeah, those were good times. I have to try harder to get her out of this funk. Let's try right away....



Well we should thank you. You're taking us to dinner, right?



Cheeky!
Subtext: I know what you're trying to do. Do you think this place has a storage closet?

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

LOL. He's an artist. He's got to be gay. *sarcasm* That's how TPTB think.

The whole DADT thing is very humorous to me, knowing so many military people as I do. There are tons of gay service people. Pretty much everybody knows who they are and nobody cares except a few mindless bigots. The military is like a small town. Everybody knows everybody else's business, unless it's top secret. They also know who's having an affair with whom, and unless it impacts on their job or national security, nobody says a thing. Some members of the press over here, who like to smear the military for any little thing, just go out and find crap to confirm their widely held misconceptions.

My problem with it on the show would be if they didn't start out gay, but suddenly contracted it mid episode for expediency's sake. Or because it's trendy to have a gay cast member or storyline. Badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

Correction: He's an artist from San Francisco. That makes it all better. If one is trying to phone the story in, that is. But that's all I'm going to say on that issue.

Very true. Some people's feed had every male on the whole expedition being gay. Others had Elizabeth as the Evil Dictator who was out to rule the universe.

*snerks* That's Our Dread Imperial Highness, to us.

And look at all those pics you and SR have been posting... Gee, there's just no evidence of John and Elizabeth liking each other at all, is there? LOL!

[Falcon Horus]

There's a cut-paste option, but I haven't taken the time to learn how to use it, at least not yet.

You can quote people, either to click on "quote" underneath their post or you can multiquote various people by clicking the "plus" next to "quote".

The other problem was the mysoginism that permated the thing. Women always acted badly and men always took it and forgave them. Am I correct, Starbuck had a night of passion with Apollo then ran off and married someone else the next morning? Really? Issues with women there, boys?

Men and women were quite at level with each other when it comes to these sort of issues.

I think all SG-1 and SGA fans owe a debt of gratitude to Richard Dean Anderson, who apparently insisted that those two shows not take themselves too seriously. That was genius, and made both series the kind that will be watched with pleasure for decades.

RDA had a say in SG1 in its earlier Showtime years, but did he still have one in the later years. He did insist on an O'Neill with a better sense of humor as opposed to the stick-up-his-ass O'Neil from the movie.
As far as SGA goes, RDA didn't have a say in anything concerning that.

That and the fact watching Mr. Anderson, Joe Flanigan, Michael Shanks and Ben Browder in particular will make one lose one's train of thought. Mr. Flanigan plays Sheppard with this coiled-energy-under-the-surface thing that just-just-...

It's not the men that do it for me... ...and many others...

...and Mr. Hewlett, although he was overexposed the last two years, was inspired as Rodney. Even when he was on too much he was still terrific.

If you ever get the change, watch David Hewlett's episode of Without A Trace - dude can act, even if I don't much like McKay, that's most certainly through no fault of DH cause he can own a character.

That under-the-surface stuff made Liz and John burn up the screen; it's too bad the producers were so wedded to John/Teyla and then never followed through on anything. That's why fanfic is so much fun; we fill in the gaps.

I think we do a lot more than filling gaps... at least I like to think so.

To the lady who said she'd check for grammar:
Thank you. I must admit I have no idea how to contact you.

I think it was JT-2 and you can either send her message - even though I'm guessing with your status as newbie you won't be able to do that yet... or send an email. You can click on usernames and a pop-up will appear which will give you options.

Assuming that you aren't joking, you must not have visited that gay character thread. I ultimately did not participate because from what I can tell, that entire thread long ago degenerated into spamming that one exact phrase over and over again.

It's called reminding people - not spamming. Besides, we do have fun in that thread... just less talking like in this one.

Plus there's the fact that Mallozzi seems to routinely engage in deliberately baiting the fans. There's just no telling whether or not he's being truthful in this case.

He probably wasn't but we ran with it... I picked Chuck in the poll though. Even Kavan knows about it, and thought it was funny.

i thought they said that Captain Vega (Search and Rescue, Whispers) was the one that was gay.

They did - after they killed her.

...and i refuse to believe that lorne is gay. that's just wrong.

Why would that be wrong?

I'm going to spoil everything here, but it's all off topic, so:

And thus I follow so quotes inside spoilers from hence forth:

Spoiler:

And all he said in the quotations from his blog was that Lorne had some personal revelations. He may be an alcoholic. Or he eats paint.

He might just by accident stick his finger in his mouth when he's painting...

Who is Parrish? Is that a fan fiction made up character, or did he appear on the show?

He's an actual character, played by Jonathan Young (Tesla in Sanctuary). He appears in Runner as the botanist whom Lorne is babysitting.

LOL. He's an artist. He's got to be gay. *sarcasm* That's how TPTB think.

Unfortunately it's not just TPTB who think that way... *face!palm* ...

My problem with it on the show would be if they didn't start out gay, but suddenly contracted it mid episode for expediency's sake. Or because it's trendy to have a gay cast member or storyline. Badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

Neither Vega or Lorne were ever canonnically confirmed to be either straight, gay or bi ... so it is possible.

But in this case of "after the facts" I'd have to say it was most likely a stunt to gain attention.

Get out of my head!!!! That's exactly why I don't like thinking Lorne is gay either. It's so damn stereotypical. Oh, he's an artist. That must mean he's gay. Oh, come on!!

But there's nothing to contradict he isn't gay. So, stereotypical or not... he could be.

And I agree that Mallozzi was just trying to be trendy by saying there was a gay cast member. He didn't have the courage to actually put it in an episode, though. You can't take what TPTB say as canon. What's on screen is canon. Period.

So he again he could be - see above.

[mandogater]

That Return 1 scene was SO flirty.

Spoiler:

Since when do you sleep?
Subtext: We never actually got to "sleep" back on Atlantis.



Since I got back. I've had a lot of catching up to do.
Subtext: John, you were wearing me out.



[thinking] Yeah, those were good times. I have to try harder to get her out of this funk. Let's try right away....



Well we should thank you. You're taking us to dinner, right?



Cheeky!
Subtext: I know what you're trying to do. Do you think this place has a storage closet?

I miss Sparky and Atlantis on my tv.

OT rant:

Spoiler:

I think I'm going insane. I was watching Fiddler on the Roof earlier and I can't get one of the songs out of my head. Nothing works, not even coming here!

[gateraid]

LOL. He's an artist. He's got to be gay. *sarcasm* That's how TPTB think.

The whole DADT thing is very humorous to me, knowing so many military people as I do. There are tons of gay service people. Pretty much everybody knows who they are and nobody cares except a few mindless bigots. The military is like a small town. Everybody knows everybody else's business, unless it's top secret. They also know who's having an affair with whom, and unless it impacts on their job or national security, nobody says a thing. Some members of the press over here, who like to smear the military for any little thing, just go out and find crap to confirm their widely held misconceptions.

The highlighted bit is kinda what I have an issue with in general (not related to this issue) because it's so common in fan fiction. I've read so many fics where everyone knows sparky is together (or whomever) and it tends to come across as a bit of a nudge nudge wink wink thing, making it obvious that it is only fan fiction. But like you say, generally bases aren't that large, so it's not that unrealistic that everyone would know everyone else's business.

My problem with it on the show would be if they didn't start out gay, but suddenly contracted it mid episode for expediency's sake. Or because it's trendy to have a gay cast member or storyline. Badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

Admittedly Lorne, and most of the cast, are written as genderless, so I guess it's down to our interpretation as to their straightness or gayness. Frankly I'm surprised that Weir wasn't gay, it's a bit of a tv cliche to have the lead administrator character as gay.

Thanks for all the virtual hugs and sympathy. The memorial was a very nice service (if a little long - 2 hours of sitting in church pews had my back screaming at me).



Oooh, that's a great idea!!



Yeah, some of my answers change as well. When I found the spreadsheet where I'd originally ranked the episodes I had The Eye and Siege 3 as my favorites. I changed them for BIS and Conversion. Some of them are set in stone, though.

Critical Mass is also a favorite of mine. The Ark bored me while Quarantine had me rolling my eyes quite a bit (and screaming at Teyla to get her pregnant self OFF the ledge). Inquisition just showed how badly the show needed Elizabeth.

I loved CM too. My only criticism is that near the end they didn't find a way to incorporate Teyla into the main storyline, but I guess with the B-plot nature of the death/funeral stuff, that wasn't practical in that instance.

Get out of my head!!!! That's exactly why I don't like thinking Lorne is gay either. It's so damn stereotypical. Oh, he's an artist. That must mean he's gay. Oh, come on!!

And I agree that Mallozzi was just trying to be trendy by saying there was a gay cast member. He didn't have the courage to actually put it in an episode, though. You can't take what TPTB say as canon. What's on screen is canon. Period.

True. Plus, he didn't actually say it, so far as I'm aware

Exactly. But, to be fair, the network may have had a big say in the decision also.

And what's on screen is canon, even if some viewers did seem to be getting a feed from an alternate universe. LOL

Is that the universe where Weir ordered the extermination of the Asurans? And the sky is a foreign shade of blue?

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!



Correction: He's an artist from San Francisco. That makes it all better. If one is trying to phone the story in, that is. But that's all I'm going to say on that issue.


*snerks* That's Our Dread Imperial Highness, to us.

And look at all those pics you and SR have been posting... Gee, there's just no evidence of John and Elizabeth liking each other at all, is there? LOL!

Knowing these guys, if it was Lorne, I'm surprised he didn't have faaaaaaaaaaaabulously decorated quarters

You can quote people, either to click on "quote" underneath their post or you can multiquote various people by clicking the "plus" next to "quote".



Men and women were quite at level with each other when it comes to these sort of issues.

The bad, and the good, behaviour seemed (at least to me) to be gender neutral.

RDA had a say in SG1 in its earlier Showtime years, but did he still have one in the later years. He did insist on an O'Neill with a better sense of humor as opposed to the stick-up-his-ass O'Neil from the movie.
As far as SGA goes, RDA didn't have a say in anything concerning that.

I didn't realise how much the show gained from his presence (and his character) until he was gone

It's not the men that do it for me... ...and many others...

Is there an icon for ditto?

If you ever get the change, watch David Hewlett's episode of Without A Trace - dude can act, even if I don't much like McKay, that's most certainly through no fault of DH cause he can own a character.

He certainly can. I liked McKay, but grew tired of his overuse as a character. That said, DH's acting was brilliant, which was what endeared me to McKay in the first place

He probably wasn't but we ran with it... I picked Chuck in the poll though. Even Kavan knows about it, and thought it was funny.

Ah, the Chuck/Woolsey ship - Chick? Whuck? It's why our favourite tech was so upset when Woolsey called him Chet by mistake. Though maybe that was to throw Chen off the scent

And thus I follow so quotes inside spoilers from hence forth:

It's okay, the issue seems to have taken on a life of it's own

He might just by accident stick his finger in his mouth when he's painting...

Paint. It's addictive, I tell ya

He's an actual character, played by Jonathan Young (Tesla in Sanctuary). He appears in Runner as the botanist whom Lorne is babysitting.

Tessssllllllaaaaa!!!!!!! I've not seen a huge amount of Sanctuary (only until Carson decided to lob a grenade at the spider), but what a revelation he turned out to be. Unfortunately, it seems that actors can get wasted on Stargate. I don't know why that is - they're the same genre!!

Unfortunately it's not just TPTB who think that way... *face!palm* ...

Maybe they've been eating too much paint

Neither Vega or Lorne were ever canonnically confirmed to be either straight, gay or bi ... so it is possible.

But in this case of "after the facts" I'd have to say it was most likely a stunt to gain attention.



But there's nothing to contradict he isn't gay. So, stereotypical or not... he could be.



So he again he could be - see above.
[/spoiler]

That's quite true. I've ignored non-screened stuff in the past, even if it supports what I want. So I guess we can't say one way or the other if Vega or Lorne are gay, bi, straight, whatever. The fact that the information comes from JM makes it seem like a ploy, a plot to gain viewers after the fact.

[gateraid]

This is snurched from Southern Red because I don't know how these things work







I really love this scene, and the ep in general. On a rational level, I can see why he took her hand - if he ran up the stairs and left her there, it would look a bit silly - but I prefer to think it was coz we wuvvvs her