Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

GO HOKIES!!!!!!

Thanks, let's hope all our teams win this weekend.

Especially amazing considering that years after SGA was cancelled, fans are still coming up with story ideas for fic. And we don't even get paid for it! Joe, you so rock!

That's basically what he implied. He seems to have wanted to do more AUs. In fact, he compared SGA to Fringe in that there could have been two universes. Interesting concept and it certainly would have given them some more challenging acting experiences. Though, I'm not sure how the fans would have reacted to such a dramatic change. Personally, I would have loved it. There could have been elements in each that would have pleased everybody.

[JT-2]

GO HOKIES!!!!!!

Yes, definitely GO HOKIES! They're my adopted team now. My alma mater doesn't even HAVE a football team anymore. They did when I went there, but they always lost.

Spoiler:

I certainly haven't forgotten that there would have been additional risks involved with going after Elizabeth. Hence why Carter told him he had to have a plan, and she was right to insist on that. What ticks me off is that TPTW never let him come up with a plan.

At the very least, let McKay come up with some sort of search program he could run while he and Ronon are doing their thing on Asuras during Be All My Sins Remember'd. Search for any indication of what happened to Elizabeth, to try to rescue her if she was still alive, or at least confirm the previous report of her death from Repli!Keller in This Mortal Coil. (Even if that report was intended all along to be a red herring and the original Elizabeth really was alive somewhere else.) But nothing, nada, zip, zilch. Bad writing, TPTW.

Agreed 100%!!


Now, on a total change of topic....

A poster in the general section mentioned what his least favorite episodes were by season, and I was quite surprised by them. So I'm wondering what all of your favorite and least favorite episodes were by season. I'll go first.

Favorites
1 - Before I Sleep (The Eye loses out just barely because of the stupid girl fight )
2 - Conversion
3 - Tao of Rodney
4 - Lifeline
5 - Vegas

Least Favorites
1 - Childhood's End
2 - The Tower
3 - Irresponsible
4 - Trio
5 - Brainstorm

Once upon a time I had rated all 100 episodes. I wonder if I still have that... (Yes, I have no life. Why do you ask?)

[Southern Red]

This was hard. They have changed over time.

Faves:

1. BIS
2. Conversion
3. Echoes
4. Lifeline
5. Vegas

Least Faves:

1. The Gift
2. The Tower
3. Irresponsible
4. Trio
5. Brainstorm

[Falcon Horus]

A poster in the general section mentioned what his least favorite episodes were by season, and I was quite surprised by them. So I'm wondering what all of your favorite and least favorite episodes were by season.

Favorite (might be biased... a lot)
1 - The Gift
2 - Michael
3 - Echoes
4 - Doppelganger (the lesser of many evils)
5 - Ghost In The Machine

Least Favorite
1 - none
2 - Grace Under Pressure (maybe)
3 - toss up between both Irr's
4 - Harmony (the lesser of many evils)
5 - Vegas

Once upon a time I had rated all 100 episodes. I wonder if I still have that... (Yes, I have no life. Why do you ask?)

I ain't asking - is no different than counting words and screentime.

[gateraid]

Awww, they can't sleep unless they're together. And Chuck is always welcome.



I wonder how Elizabeth would have handled that situation. Would she have backed down like Carter did? I know she would at least have sent Carson in the old days. But considering the situation, would she have sent Keller? Or would she have prevented John from going? I don't see how she could have. Just like in Sateda, she joined him in demanding that Caldwell help find Ronon. But since he was so injured, would she have put his condition first and had him sedated? And would he have forgiven her?

If Elizabeth were still in command, I doubt she'd have been there. The arguement still would've taken place, but with the commander of the ship (Caldwell, Ellis, Carter) instead.

Obviously, he didn't come here. LOL

I think they could easily have made John the father. *dodges bricks* Teyla came to his room to console him when Kate died in Doppelganger. It could have happened then off screen. With the tendency of these writers to pull rabbits out of invisible hats, anything was possible. I wouldn't put it past them to retcon the whole thing and have everybody go around saying they knew all along that those two were in a relationship, just like they did with Kanaan. Don't fool yourself. They were capable of it. Just look at McKeller.

They could have done that. I personally wouldn't have been happy with a bam! setup like that, unless they retconned it. But as you've just pointed out, they weren't short of options

I think the majority of fans would have been shocked. If they'd did that, though, they would have had to find some way to kill/get rid of the baby. I do think everyone but the Sheylas would have had an issue with her staying on the team.

Well, I'm glad that "logic" man Mullie stopped it.

For all the fuss Michael made over the baby, they sure dropped that storyline like a hot brick

Ouch! *ducks*

You may be right. Though I think the gen fans would have shrugged and moved on. Though, I must admit McKeller caused a bit of a rift in fandom. I think it would have been a definite jump the shark moment. Whereas Sparky seemed to be expected judging from all the complaints from some non-shippers that it was too "in your face." I don't remember anybody saying that about any other ship. Oh, and let's not forget the damage making John the father would have done to his reputation. *remembers all the Kirking* I wasn't happy with all that because it seemed to mostly be centered in S2, and then we got Larrin. The guys involved thought it was okey dokey. Even Joe liked and defended it. So, I put it down to men being men and being clueless to fan reaction yet again. Like Lucious and other things that got some women up in arms. But it's a moot point now.

IMO, the kirking thing was an overreaction, based on what we actually saw on screen. He slept with Teer after six months, not after the first ad break like the 'real' Kirk. And the others, well, we don't know for sure what happened there (let's not get into this again).

I actually had more of a problem with Larrin, as that seemed to be the whole reason for her creation

Here to hand in my homework. It only took a moment to find this and this on UN and NATO ops. It looks like the funding comes from the member nations. So we have to assume the IOA would work the same way.

Interesting. Secrecy seems implausible when you read those figures

Happy Birthday to Lt.Colonel John Sheppard! Hope your birthday will be as good as mine was!



Sounds good to me. Supposedly the IOA represents all the nations that are "in" on knowing the secret of the Stargate, so it stands to reason that they'd operate in a manner similar to publicly known multinational political/diplomatic organizations.

With the US picking up most of the tab, it would appear.

All this talk about what didn't happen in canon made me want to remember what DID happen in canon.

Spoiler:

Look at his quivering lip
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/alb...tl_401_312.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/alb...l_402_1022.JPG

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/alb...tl_403_337.JPG

The difference I think certain people forget is that John trying to rescue Teyla/Ronon/Rodney/Falcon the lemming from Wraith/Genii/The Wicked Witch only has the possibility of John getting captured, tortured, and killed. But if he went after Elizabeth and got captured by the Asurans then they'd mind probe him and find out the new location of Atlantis. He'd be risking the entire population of the city, and the city itself.

Spoiler:

I don't have such a big issue with them not rescuing her per se, it's just that they didn't do a good enough job of explaining why making said rescue was a bad idea.

GO HOKIES!!!!!!



Guh! Lovely (and heartbreaking) picspam!

Spoiler:

I certainly haven't forgotten that there would have been additional risks involved with going after Elizabeth. Hence why Carter told him he had to have a plan, and she was right to insist on that. What ticks me off is that TPTW never let him come up with a plan.

At the very least, let McKay come up with some sort of search program he could run while he and Ronon are doing their thing on Asuras during Be All My Sins Remember'd. Search for any indication of what happened to Elizabeth, to try to rescue her if she was still alive, or at least confirm the previous report of her death from Repli!Keller in This Mortal Coil. (Even if that report was intended all along to be a red herring and the original Elizabeth really was alive somewhere else.) But nothing, nada, zip, zilch. Bad writing, TPTW.

Spoiler:

Or even a flyover with the Deadalus to scan for human life signs at some point. They didn't need to do anything major, or even successful, but they should've at least made it look like they were considering options. The one you've listed above (the BAMSR one) would've been easy enough to achieve

Thanks, let's hope all our teams win this weekend.




That's basically what he implied. He seems to have wanted to do more AUs. In fact, he compared SGA to Fringe in that there could have been two universes. Interesting concept and it certainly would have given them some more challenging acting experiences. Though, I'm not sure how the fans would have reacted to such a dramatic change. Personally, I would have loved it. There could have been elements in each that would have pleased everybody.

I'd be in the not-liking-it camp. But, they might've surprised me, it could've been the formula for success

Yes, definitely GO HOKIES! They're my adopted team now. My alma mater doesn't even HAVE a football team anymore. They did when I went there, but they always lost.




Agreed 100%!!


Now, on a total change of topic....

A poster in the general section mentioned what his least favorite episodes were by season, and I was quite surprised by them. So I'm wondering what all of your favorite and least favorite episodes were by season. I'll go first.

Favorites
1 - Before I Sleep (The Eye loses out just barely because of the stupid girl fight )
2 - Conversion
3 - Tao of Rodney
4 - Lifeline
5 - Vegas

Least Favorites
1 - Childhood's End
2 - The Tower
3 - Irresponsible
4 - Trio
5 - Brainstorm

Once upon a time I had rated all 100 episodes. I wonder if I still have that... (Yes, I have no life. Why do you ask?)

Wow. I'd have put BIS in the bottom list

[Scary Kitty]

Oooh, a list game!

Favorite:
1. The Storm/The Eye (multi-part episodes count as one! )
2. Before I Sleep
3. The Siege trilogy
4. Sateda
5. Echoes

Least favorite:
1. Both Irr-episodes (so what if it's not a multi-parter? Lucius the Loser doesn't deserve two spots on the list.)
2. Childhood's End
3. Trio
4. Brainstorm
5. none

That's basically what he implied. He seems to have wanted to do more AUs. In fact, he compared SGA to Fringe in that there could have been two universes. Interesting concept and it certainly would have given them some more challenging acting experiences. Though, I'm not sure how the fans would have reacted to such a dramatic change. Personally, I would have loved it. There could have been elements in each that would have pleased everybody.

Hmm, that might have been interesting to see.

For all the fuss Michael made over the baby, they sure dropped that storyline like a hot brick

*snerks*

IMO, the kirking thing was an overreaction, based on what we actually saw on screen. He slept with Teer after six months, not after the first ad break like the 'real' Kirk. And the others, well, we don't know for sure what happened there (let's not get into this again).

I actually had more of a problem with Larrin, as that seemed to be the whole reason for her creation

Yeah, I really don't mind Teer either; as you said, he had a lot of time to get to know her properly beforehand. The others just make me roll my eyes in minor annoyance more than anything else.

I've never liked Larrin, however. To me, she always came across as an abusive, manhating b***h who was more interested in using John like a dirty rag. John deserved better than the likes of her.

I don't have such a big issue with them not rescuing her per se, it's just that they didn't do a good enough job of explaining why making said rescue was a bad idea.

...

Or even a flyover with the Deadalus to scan for human life signs at some point. They didn't need to do anything major, or even successful, but they should've at least made it look like they were considering options. The one you've listed above (the BAMSR one) would've been easy enough to achieve

Actually, I feel much the same way. Obviously I would've preferred to see her rescued at some point, but if TPTW had at least made an effort to come up with a reasonable explanation why she couldn't be rescued, and shown Team Atlantis trying to get some hard answers instead of just blindly believing any Replicator who claims she's dead without offering any proof, I would've at least been satisfied, if not happy. But they didn't even give us the courtesy of a decent story. Meh.

[JT-2]

SR - I'm listening to Joe's Sunday talk now. Oh Joe, I do love you. He mentions the copying of SG-1 plots and how there are so many ideas the writers just couldn't think of, and how the producers thought actors weren't important. We love ya, Joe. Never stop being honest.

This was hard. They have changed over time.

Faves:

1. BIS
2. Conversion
3. Echoes
4. Lifeline
5. Vegas

Least Faves:

1. The Gift
2. The Tower
3. Irresponsible
4. Trio
5. Brainstorm

I found that spreadsheet I'd made. I hadn't ranked all 100. I ranked each season's episodes from 1 to 20. My tastes also change over time, as a few of my favorites were swapped.

I'm really surprised you chose The Gift. I liked that one. Elizabeth gets to decipher a whole language. But other than that we agree 8/10 times. Scary!

Favorite (might be biased... a lot)
1 - The Gift
2 - Michael
3 - Echoes
4 - Doppelganger (the lesser of many evils)
5 - Ghost In The Machine

Least Favorite
1 - none
2 - Grace Under Pressure (maybe)
3 - toss up between both Irr's
4 - Harmony (the lesser of many evils)
5 - Vegas

Ok, these were NOT surprising.

I ain't asking - is no different than counting words and screentime.

Oh I have a new project I just started. If I ever get it completed I'll share with the class. Still, it won't compete with yours though.

For all the fuss Michael made over the baby, they sure dropped that storyline like a hot brick

We never did find out why he wanted that baby, did we?

Wow. I'd have put BIS in the bottom list

Lizzie is not happy. May I ask why?

[mandogater]

Thanks for all the kind words about my ficlet everybody!

Happy Birthday Lt. Colonel John Sheppard!!

GO HOKIES!!!!!!

Spoiler:

I certainly haven't forgotten that there would have been additional risks involved with going after Elizabeth. Hence why Carter told him he had to have a plan, and she was right to insist on that. What ticks me off is that TPTW never let him come up with a plan.

At the very least, let McKay come up with some sort of search program he could run while he and Ronon are doing their thing on Asuras during Be All My Sins Remember'd. Search for any indication of what happened to Elizabeth, to try to rescue her if she was still alive, or at least confirm the previous report of her death from Repli!Keller in This Mortal Coil. (Even if that report was intended all along to be a red herring and the original Elizabeth really was alive somewhere else.) But nothing, nada, zip, zilch. Bad writing, TPTW.

Go Hokies!! I've always liked VT a bit and they are starting to rise on my must watch list for Saturdays.

I really like your idea, SK!!! They could have very easily worked that into BAMSR.

Time to get in on the list games.

Top 5
1. The Siege trilogy
2. The Storm/The Eye
3. Be All My Sins Remember'd
4. Sateda
5. Duet

Bottom 5
1. Tie for both of Lucius Lavin's episodes
2. Brainstorm
3. Harmony
4. Childhood's End
5. Trio

[JT-2]

Scary Kitty and mandogater - I meant favorite and least favorite for each season.

But your lists are fun too!

I've never been too fond of Sateda, but I'm not really an action type of person.

[Falcon Horus]

Ok, these were NOT surprising.

Need to try harder...

[JT-2]

Need to try harder...

Well, you surprised me in other ways today.

[Falcon Horus]

Well, you surprised me in other ways today.

I have my moments.

Properly motivated people can do remarkable things.

[Scary Kitty]

Scary Kitty and mandogater - I meant favorite and least favorite for each season.

But your lists are fun too!

I've never been too fond of Sateda, but I'm not really an action type of person.

Hey, everyone else posted lists for the whole series. Why did we get singled out?

Oh, and I hear you about having a super seekrit fandom project that you want to share, but not until it's done.

[JT-2]

SK, I think you and I are having a communication gap.

Here's SR's list

Faves:

1. BIS - season 1
2. Conversion - season 2
3. Echoes - season 3
4. Lifeline - season 4
5. Vegas - season 5

Least Faves:

1. The Gift - season 1
2. The Tower - season 2
3. Irresponsible - season 3
4. Trio - season 4
5. Brainstorm - season 5

So it's the best/worst from each season.

Or I could be having a brain fart. It was a VERY long week filled with meetings, and meetings, and having to leave work early to pick up my mom at day care, and more meetings.

[gateraid]

SK, I think you and I are having a communication gap.

Here's SR's list

Faves:

1. BIS - season 1
2. Conversion - season 2
3. Echoes - season 3
4. Lifeline - season 4
5. Vegas - season 5

Least Faves:

1. The Gift - season 1
2. The Tower - season 2
3. Irresponsible - season 3
4. Trio - season 4
5. Brainstorm - season 5

So it's the best/worst from each season.

Or I could be having a brain fart. It was a VERY long week filled with meetings, and meetings, and having to leave work early to pick up my mom at day care, and more meetings.

Nope, I missed that too. I thought you meant best/worst overall, then when you said each season, I thought you meant five & five from each season).

Oh, and in answer to your question (the BIS one), I just found it really boring. Everything with old Weir seemed to drag on and on. The stuff when everyone drowned was good, but those scenes were the only ones that held my interest