Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[mandogater]

*sends more hugs and good luck vibes*

Thanks!!

[mandogater]

Spoiler:

Um, why are you watching me sleep?
: JT is feeling diplomatic and wants to give the other half of the thread some accidental peekage.

Spoiler:

And we thank you for it!!

[JT-2]

Good morning. Happy Friday everybody. Looks like John plans to fix whatever is wrong today.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ouwillbeok.gif

And a ship was born. Well, for me anyway, as they were the first 2 episodes I watched. Thanks again for the unintentional ship, Gero

Spoiler:

And we thank you for it!!

*giggle*


Now, for a serious question. In the whump thread we were discussing John's fears. Several people there thought he has a fear of commitment. I was wondering what my shippy friends think of this. I never really thought that was a fear of his. In Sunday, he said he wasn't any good at marriage, but I don't take that to mean that he is afraid or hesitant to commit to a relationship.

What do you think?

[Scary Kitty]

And a ship was born. Well, for me anyway, as they were the first 2 episodes I watched. Thanks again for the unintentional ship, Gero

Now, for a serious question. In the whump thread we were discussing John's fears. Several people there thought he has a fear of commitment. I was wondering what my shippy friends think of this. I never really thought that was a fear of his. In Sunday, he said he wasn't any good at marriage, but I don't take that to mean that he is afraid or hesitant to commit to a relationship.

What do you think?

I don't think he's really afraid of commitment, either. What I think he's afraid of is something going wrong in a relationship and being left alone. He's been down that road before, knows it sucks, and doesn't want to go there again. But that's just me.

[Southern Red]

And a ship was born. Well, for me anyway, as they were the first 2 episodes I watched. Thanks again for the unintentional ship, Gero



*giggle*


Now, for a serious question. In the whump thread we were discussing John's fears. Several people there thought he has a fear of commitment. I was wondering what my shippy friends think of this. I never really thought that was a fear of his. In Sunday, he said he wasn't any good at marriage, but I don't take that to mean that he is afraid or hesitant to commit to a relationship.

What do you think?

No, SK, it's not just you. I also don't think he's afraid of commitment. I think he's afraid of abandonment, as was proven in Epiphany. I'm not sure what happened in his first marriage to make him think he wasn't very good at being married. He shouldn't blame himself that he had to keep secrets from Nancy. As a military wife, she should have accepted that. So, I think there was a lot more to it. John had a period after getting to know everyone in Atlantis to the extent that he considered them family that I think he felt comfortable in his own skin and accepted for who he was. He had a moment of weakness when he thought they had abandoned him, but never again did he feel that way. There's a lot more to commitment than romantic relationships. We also commit to friends and family and even work relationships. John entered freely into all those and for example, didn't seem to hold back from being friends with Rodney. Or Ronon.

He openly pursued women that caught his eye, but he didn't commit to any of them because he wasn't in love with them. He didn't think he could have a relationship with Elizabeth, so he didn't make a move. In fact, he told Ronon in Sunday that there wasn't anyone there that he could have a relationship with. He didn't say there was no one that he wanted to be with, and aside from the military personnel, Elizabeth was the only one that was forbidden by the rules. He could easily have gotten together with Teyla and have her assigned to another team. But a romance with Elizabeth would have caused the IOA to have a fit and put the whole expedition in peril. Neither of them wanted to risk that.

That was a bit of a ramble, but no I don't think John was afraid of commitment.

[gateraid]

And a ship was born. Well, for me anyway, as they were the first 2 episodes I watched. Thanks again for the unintentional ship, Gero



*giggle*


Now, for a serious question. In the whump thread we were discussing John's fears. Several people there thought he has a fear of commitment. I was wondering what my shippy friends think of this. I never really thought that was a fear of his. In Sunday, he said he wasn't any good at marriage, but I don't take that to mean that he is afraid or hesitant to commit to a relationship.

What do you think?

I don't think he's really afraid of commitment, either. What I think he's afraid of is something going wrong in a relationship and being left alone. He's been down that road before, knows it sucks, and doesn't want to go there again. But that's just me.

*throws in two cents*

My take on that side of things is that he isn't afraid of commitment, at least not in the way that description implies. He was married before, but he was away a lot and couldn't talk about it. Some marriages can withstand that level of secrecy, some can't. Prior to that, I imagine he would have been moving around at regular intervals, so developing long term relationships mighn't have been practical. Going into a relationship when you know you may end up by being relocated in six months is going to affect how you act in said relationship.

Looking at his time on Atlantis, well it wouldn't have been an issue initially. There was a lot of stuff thrown at them in the first few months, I doubt anyone would''ve given the idea much thought. Chaya sort of just happened, but he would've gone into that with his eyes wide open - something was 'off' about her from the get go, and then she turned out to be an ancient so any relationship was obvioulsy doomed. TS/TE would've stirred up some emotion, moreso in the sense that he probably didn't realise how much he cared about everyone on the expedition. But at that point, I still don't think relationships were on anyone's minds, other than of the booty call/stress relief variety.

As the years went by, it's harder to make an assessment. Certainly, others moved into relationships and he didn't. Maybe the writers got stung by the kirk criticism (which I think it was unfounded) and deliberately didn't hook him up with anyone. His love interest (Teyla) and love arc was thwarted in s4 when RL got pregnant. This is probably where Larrin came from - a bit of an afterthought.

You could probably make the arguement that all of them are committment-phobes. Or not. The reality of the show was that nobody was governed by their loins. They didn't go looking for love in the normal way (hardly any dating was actually seen). Whenever a romance did occur, it was more by chance than anything else. I think for the description to be accurate, he'd have to be going out with more women, then breaking up with them after a short period of time.

And given that this is the sparky thread, the relationship with Weir evolved from day 1 with the non-fraternisation cloud floating around. It wouldn't have been an issue until much later, but they both knew nothing could happen. I think this would've changed the nature of their friendship, even if they weren't aware of it. It probably would've allowed them to be better friends, to get closer than they ordinarily would have without romantic implications. It's not uncommon for guys to be better friends with married girls than single ones, because the barrier of marriage removes them from the 'romance' pool, allowing them to be thought of more as individuals rather than possible partners. I'm reaching, obviously, but this may have occurred here. They may have gotten closer over season two, and the Progeny/TRW/CG eps may have made them realise they had deeper feelings than merely friendship. Perhaps this was the cause of their emotional pullback during TR - the barrier had been removed but they were too scared at that point to do anything??

I seem to have drifted away from the original question


Edit: I should have preview posted - SR said it much better than I did, as per usual

[Pocus]

Gateraid....I think you said it perfectly!!!

Actually all of you have said it well!!

[gateraid]

Gateraid....I think you said it perfectly!!!

Actually all of you have said it well!!

Thank you I guess it's all just fan perspective at the end of the day *shrugs* On that emotional disconnect (and fan perspective ) I wonder if you could interpret this look....



....as I've missed you?? Not in the sense of pining for someone exactly, but missed being around someone and not realising exactly how much until they came back. That's probably reading too much into it though.

[Scary Kitty]

gateraid, I think you said that very well. I particularly liked this observation:

And given that this is the sparky thread, the relationship with Weir evolved from day 1 with the non-fraternisation cloud floating around. It wouldn't have been an issue until much later, but they both knew nothing could happen. I think this would've changed the nature of their friendship, even if they weren't aware of it. It probably would've allowed them to be better friends, to get closer than they ordinarily would have without romantic implications. It's not uncommon for guys to be better friends with married girls than single ones, because the barrier of marriage removes them from the 'romance' pool, allowing them to be thought of more as individuals rather than possible partners. I'm reaching, obviously, but this may have occurred here. They may have gotten closer over season two, and the Progeny/TRW/CG eps may have made them realise they had deeper feelings than merely friendship. Perhaps this was the cause of their emotional pullback during TR - the barrier had been removed but they were too scared at that point to do anything??

That part in bold? That's my personal canon. It fits what we saw on screen to a T, and you nailed it.

Thank you I guess it's all just fan perspective at the end of the day *shrugs* On that emotional disconnect (and fan perspective ) I wonder if you could interpret this look....

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...turn1_0745.jpg

....as I've missed you?? Not in the sense of pining for someone exactly, but missed being around someone and not realising exactly how much until they came back. That's probably reading too much into it though.

Naw, I don't think that's reading too much into it.

[Southern Red]

Thank you I guess it's all just fan perspective at the end of the day *shrugs* On that emotional disconnect (and fan perspective ) I wonder if you could interpret this look....

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...turn1_0745.jpg

....as I've missed you?? Not in the sense of pining for someone exactly, but missed being around someone and not realising exactly how much until they came back. That's probably reading too much into it though.

You know me; I just have to stir the pot. Are you talking about Elizabeth or John? Here's an alternate view.

John is looking at Teyla and Ronon. He's glad to see them, missed them and hoping they will want to rejoin the team. Elizabeth is looking at John like political wives look at their husbands when they're making a speech. She agrees with him and he's speaking for her too. How's that for spin? I can see how others may interpret it differently, and that's perfectly fine. It's interesting though how she holds back and lets him do the talking. I think that shows just how alike they think and how they work together as a perfect team.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family and College Football Saturday!

You know me; I just have to stir the pot. Are you talking about Elizabeth or John? Here's an alternate view.

John is looking at Teyla and Ronon. He's glad to see them, missed them and hoping they will want to rejoin the team. Elizabeth is looking at John like political wives look at their husbands when they're making a speech. She agrees with him and he's speaking for her too. How's that for spin? I can see how others may interpret it differently, and that's perfectly fine. It's interesting though how she holds back and lets him do the talking. I think that shows just how alike they think and how they work together as a perfect team.

Of course, I like that idea, too.

Oh, and I almost forgot: Propworx is holding a final Stargate live auction this morning to clear out the last few items they've got. Starts at 10am Pacific Time, and you can check out what's up for bid and follow along with the bidding here. Not a whole lot in the way of Sheppard or Weir items, as this is mainly stuff that was previously sold but then the buyers backed out.

[Southern Red]

Did anybody hear that noise? Fangirls squeeing loud enough to rip a hole in the universe? Thanks, Joe. He says he survived Bucharest.

[Scary Kitty]

Did anybody hear that noise? Fangirls squeeing loud enough to rip a hole in the universe? Thanks, Joe. He says he survived Bucharest.

So that's what caused that series of minor power outages in my neighborhood earlier this morning...

[Scary Kitty]

Update: The Bid Live link for today's Propworx auction is now up!

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/26561#

[Southern Red]

So that's what caused that series of minor power outages in my neighborhood earlier this morning...

I know. I thought we were having another earthquake.