Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

The TPTW track record as far as writing romantic relationships is concerned isn't something to write home about. This should have been warning enough - they weren't/aren't/won't be able to get it right.... ever.

People see what they like to see of course, no matter how hard TPTW are trying to not write it. Or write it but fail.

I mean they wrote that sexually tense moment between John and Teyla in The Rising, and then .... *waits* ...nothing. So, if they were intending to do something with it... in my opinion they failed at it big time.

I can understand why people have so much trouble picturing Teyla and Kanaan as the happy Athosian couple seeing as how we virtually know nothing of either of them, and we hardly ever saw them together. Which again is a genormous fail on the part of TPTW.

Personally, I didn't start actively shipping until Kate and Teyla, but as far as I was concerned Sheppard and Weir were a done deal. Their interactions and chemistry seemed to be a natural flowing thing... it just was and still is. Though I think it's in part that TPTW tried so hard to ignore it that they unintentionally created a spark. Shippers don't need much sometimes - Kate and John never even had a scene together (one on one I mean, without anyone else present) and yet I ship them. It's that look in Michael that did it!

I do hate how they yanked everybody's chains with the hints and hugs, and whatnot. While it's of course fun to watch episodes like that (my ships rarely got that though, if ever), it's highly frustrating when it seems like even TPTW don't know what they really want. They say one way and write another.

And a wise lesson to all... bashing a character or other pairing to make your own look better - not cool!

[Scary Kitty]

Amen to all of that. It's so frustrating that they could never make up their minds and stick with it. I still believe that's one of the many mistakes that prevented SGA from living up to it's full potential.

BTW, tomorrow's launch of the space shuttle Atlantis is still on schedule for 11:26 am Eastern Time. Anyone going to be tuning in to watch it?

[JT-2]

The TPTW track record as far as writing romantic relationships is concerned isn't something to write home about. This should have been warning enough - they weren't/aren't/won't be able to get it right.... ever.

People see what they like to see of course, no matter how hard TPTW are trying to not write it. Or write it but fail.

I mean they wrote that sexually tense moment between John and Teyla in The Rising, and then .... *waits* ...nothing. So, if they were intending to do something with it... in my opinion they failed at it big time.

I can understand why people have so much trouble picturing Teyla and Kanaan as the happy Athosian couple seeing as how we virtually know nothing of either of them, and we hardly ever saw them together. Which again is a genormous fail on the part of TPTW.

Personally, I didn't start actively shipping until Kate and Teyla, but as far as I was concerned Sheppard and Weir were a done deal. Their interactions and chemistry seemed to be a natural flowing thing... it just was and still is. Though I think it's in part that TPTW tried so hard to ignore it that they unintentionally created a spark. Shippers don't need much sometimes - Kate and John never even had a scene together (one on one I mean, without anyone else present) and yet I ship them. It's that look in Michael that did it!

I do hate how they yanked everybody's chains with the hints and hugs, and whatnot. While it's of course fun to watch episodes like that (my ships rarely got that though, if ever), it's highly frustrating when it seems like even TPTW don't know what they really want. They say one way and write another.

And a wise lesson to all... bashing a character or other pairing to make your own look better - not cool!

Agreed 100%! You're gonna get some green.

As much as I love the ideas of Teyla/Carson and Teyla/Kate, TBH the ships that are obvious to me are J/E and Teyla/Ronon. Of course everyone sees things differently. In terms of screentime, though, I think it's safe to say that S1 - S3 had the most interpersonal scenes in this order:

1. Rodney & John
2. John & Elizabeth
3. Teyla & Ronon

Therefore, the shipping of those 3 groups seems very obvious to me. (although the idea of John/Rodney slash does NOT appeal to me).

And BTW, character bashing in order to support your own ship? That is something that gets me extremely angry. I really don't think any of us do that.

[JT-2]

Amen to all of that. It's so frustrating that they could never make up their minds and stick with it. I still believe that's one of the many mistakes that prevented SGA from living up to it's full potential.

BTW, tomorrow's launch of the space shuttle Atlantis is still on schedule for 11:26 am Eastern Time. Anyone going to be tuning in to watch it?

Me!!! I'll be at work but I'll be watching it streaming online.

[Southern Red]

Agreed 100%! You're gonna get some green.

As much as I love the ideas of Teyla/Carson and Teyla/Kate, TBH the ships that are obvious to me are J/E and Teyla/Ronon. Of course everyone sees things differently. In terms of screentime, though, I think it's safe to say that S1 - S3 had the most interpersonal scenes in this order:

1. Rodney & John
2. John & Elizabeth
3. Teyla & Ronon

Therefore, the shipping of those 3 groups seems very obvious to me. (although the idea of John/Rodney slash does NOT appeal to me).

And BTW, character bashing in order to support your own ship? That is something that gets me extremely angry. I really don't think any of us do that.

ITA with this and the others who have mentioned other possible ships. I always thought Teyla/Carson would have been sweet and believable. And I can see possibilities in all the ships mentioned above. Yes, even John/Teyla. But they just didn't do it very well. And the obvious lack of actor chemistry made it impossible to have worked. IMHO, of course. I can see that others think differently. I just can't see much in canon to back it up.

We have just never tolerated bashing of ships here. Or actors. Or characters. I defy anyone to go back and find any true bashing. Talking about bad costumes or wigs, etc is not bashing a character or actor, but it's just criticism of the costume dept or the makeup people that made them look bad. Calling a character old or ugly, however, is bashing. We've never done any of that.

[ShipperWriter]

Yes, beer was drunk after moving. Mostly. With pizza.

I'm in Florida. If the skies aren't grey like they have been for the last nine days, I hope I can see the launch in person!!!

And for something on topic: Sparky FTW!

[gateraid]

I'm only quoting this one post, but the whole discussion is relevant

And your opinion is totally the correct one. I thought that too. He was so excited when he heard Teyla was having lunch with her, even to the point of saying she had been working too much. Right after Teyla has been trying to weasel out of playing golf with John and Ronon, we got this:

TEYLA: If you would like, I could cancel ...

SHEPPARD: No, no, no, no. She could use a little time out of the office. Some other time.

TEYLA: Some other time.


John is trying to talk her out of whatever plans she has made until he finds out she's having lunch with Elizabeth. Teyla even offers to change her plans, but he thinks getting Elizabeth out of her office is more important. This also helps show that Teyla and Elizabeth are friends.

I fully love this explanation. Teyla is Shep's proxy with Elizabeth And it shows the Teyla/Ronon connection too

Spoiler:

There's a scene in Trust (I'm not sure what the final cut is yet) that made me go awwww. But not in the shippy way

I am also reminded of the beginning of, Brainstorm I believe, when John and Ronon saw Rodney/Jennifer together and John had a worried look in reaction. Shippers insisted that he was jealous, but I'm thinking he was remembering TLM and the events that happened in the future. Shippers see what shippers want to see. We do too, but at least we know Joe is helping us. LOL

What the...? Some people got Shep being jealous out of that? I see why people have a low opinion of shippers in general, if that is anything to go by. No way was that jealous. If anything, perhaps weirded out (not in the ewww way, more in the 'what an unlikely couple' way)

But back to sparky. I watched the show in order, which means the first shippy scene I saw was the Sheyla cave scene, so I knew this was the intended ship. Honestly, I thought they would leave it til later in the show's run to do anything with - maybe hint at it a little, but not address it specifically til they thought the show was going to end. So any hint at sparky (intentional or otherwise) I tried to ignore. I told myself that this could not be 'the ship' and actively discouraged myself from shipping them. And to be fair, the hugs can't really be compared, because they were in different circumstances. In both of the Sheyla hugs, Teyla had been through something traumatic and hugged Shep, so his reaction was always going to be different. But, his reaction, and even the wording of his lines after the Seige III hug screamed ship to me. Why else would they have it there? Surely Teyla thought he was dead too? Or he thought she was?

I agree that they did do the typical signs of ship with sparky. That said, I don't think it was intentional in the sense that they wanted to do anything with the ship. I think they wanted a bob each way until they went with Sheyla. There were plenty of times where they could've killed sparky with a "you're like a sister to me" comment, but they chose carry on regardless. It wouldn't grate me so much except for the fact that they practically slammed McKeller together into an "I love you" with zero build up (in our reality) and cried true love. Don't get me wrong, once they were actually together they did a better job of it, but the build up is key.

[Southern Red]

I'm only quoting this one post, but the whole discussion is relevant



I fully love this explanation. Teyla is Shep's proxy with Elizabeth And it shows the Teyla/Ronon connection too

Spoiler:

There's a scene in Trust (I'm not sure what the final cut is yet) that made me go awwww. But not in the shippy way

What the...? Some people got Shep being jealous out of that? I see why people have a low opinion of shippers in general, if that is anything to go by. No way was that jealous. If anything, perhaps weirded out (not in the ewww way, more in the 'what an unlikely couple' way)

But back to sparky. I watched the show in order, which means the first shippy scene I saw was the Sheyla cave scene, so I knew this was the intended ship. Honestly, I thought they would leave it til later in the show's run to do anything with - maybe hint at it a little, but not address it specifically til they thought the show was going to end. So any hint at sparky (intentional or otherwise) I tried to ignore. I told myself that this could not be 'the ship' and actively discouraged myself from shipping them. And to be fair, the hugs can't really be compared, because they were in different circumstances. In both of the Sheyla hugs, Teyla had been through something traumatic and hugged Shep, so his reaction was always going to be different. But, his reaction, and even the wording of his lines after the Seige III hug screamed ship to me. Why else would they have it there? Surely Teyla thought he was dead too? Or he thought she was?

I agree that they did do the typical signs of ship with sparky. That said, I don't think it was intentional in the sense that they wanted to do anything with the ship. I think they wanted a bob each way until they went with Sheyla. There were plenty of times where they could've killed sparky with a "you're like a sister to me" comment, but they chose carry on regardless. It wouldn't grate me so much except for the fact that they practically slammed McKeller together into an "I love you" with zero build up (in our reality) and cried true love. Don't get me wrong, once they were actually together they did a better job of it, but the build up is key.

Get out of my head. Stop reading my mind. I can't count how many times back in the early days that I said that very thing about "you're like a sister to me". That's all it would have taken with either ship, come to think of it.

I'm like you, I watched from the beginning. I fell in love with Joe/Shep when I saw the commercial with him and Amanda before the show even started. So, it was all downhill from there. Being a hopeless romantic, I couldn't wait to see what ship they had cooked up for him. When I saw in The Rising that it was intended to be Teyla, I accepted it but knew I would never like it. Then I remember starting to notice all the little things with Elizabeth and wondering what was up. By 38 Min I was a total Sparky shipper and never looked back.

I don't want anyone lurking to think I am bashing Sheyla. There has been some misunderstanding of that in the past. On the contrary, if they had done it well without all the Sparky hints, I would have been fine with it. I never would have thought they had the necessary romantic chemistry, but I likely would have just shrugged it off and become a non-shipper. But they did it so inconsistently--here an overt anvil like a hug, there an overt anvil like him saving her life (shippy to TPTB, not the rest of us) and finally in S3 they had to resort to having Ronon mention it, just in case we had forgotten. LOL Yet the Sparky just rolled on even after she was gone.

I think it would be very disingenuous to pretend they weren't trying to ship John and Teyla. They openly stated they were. The actors said in interviews that they were. So, denying it would be silly. It's just that they did such a bad job of it. Worse than McKeller. Much worse than Teyla/Kanaan. Worse even than Rodney/Katie. They may have hinted at Sparky, but never seriously. It was all in the editing and the way Joe and Torri reacted to each other. All my own humble opinion of course. I hope no one gets their knickers in a twist that I am so brutally honest.

Oh, and SGARising proves that Teyla/Kanaan could have been a very good ship with very little effort.

[Southern Red]

I just had to post this. Spoilers for size.

Spoiler:

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Pretty Friday!

Anyone watching the space shuttle launch today? There are thunderstorms threatening across Florida, but right now they're still proceeding with the countdown. The crew boarded the shuttle a few minutes ago and the hatch is closed. We've still got about an hour and a half until launch time.

Back to Sparky...

but the build up is key.

Bingo. It doesn't matter what ship may have been intended or not, they have to build it up to make it look believable. Ironically, it's Sparky that built itself up better than any of the 'intended' ships. Game over.

[Southern Red]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Pretty Friday!

Anyone watching the space shuttle launch today? There are thunderstorms threatening across Florida, but right now they're still proceeding with the countdown. The crew boarded the shuttle a few minutes ago and the hatch is closed. We've still got about an hour and a half until launch time.

Back to Sparky...



Bingo. It doesn't matter what ship may have been intended or not, they have to build it up to make it look believable. Ironically, it's Sparky that built itself up better than any of the 'intended' ships. Game over.

I just heard there are a million people down there ready to watch it. I'm hoping to do my run to the store and back by then. Since I was in the Home Depot when the Challenger blew up, I expect to miss it. Story of my life.

Oh, and I loved your comments on TBaF. Do you mind if I steal one or two and write them in? Plus, I have realized anew that it's easier to tell other people how to write than to do it yourself. Oh, and the spacing problem happened to me too when I read the others. I think it's a formatting thing with changing from Word to whatever and back again. I use NeoOffice, which is quirky at best.

[Scary Kitty]

I just heard there are a million people down there ready to watch it. I'm hoping to do my run to the store and back by then. Since I was in the Home Depot when the Challenger blew up, I expect to miss it. Story of my life.

Eeek! That's a lot of people. It'll really suck for those who traveled a long way if they have to scrub today's attempt for weather.

Oh, and I loved your comments on TBaF. Do you mind if I steal one or two and write them in? Plus, I have realized anew that it's easier to tell other people how to write than to do it yourself. Oh, and the spacing problem happened to me too when I read the others. I think it's a formatting thing with changing from Word to whatever and back again. I use NeoOffice, which is quirky at best.

Are you kidding? Steal away! Now I'm curious to see what you'll be adding,

Ahhh, compatibility issues. Isn't that always the way?

[JT-2]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Pretty Friday!

Anyone watching the space shuttle launch today? There are thunderstorms threatening across Florida, but right now they're still proceeding with the countdown. The crew boarded the shuttle a few minutes ago and the hatch is closed. We've still got about an hour and a half until launch time.

I'm watching it streaming. I have to admit that I get nervous each time I watch one of these, though. I was in 4th grade (I think) when Challenger happened, and it made a strong impression. Then on top of that I'm a born pessimist.

[Scary Kitty]

Shuttle update: Final go/no go poll has been taken, and we're go!

We are now at T-minus 9 minutes and counting!

[Scary Kitty]

They're retracting the nose cap from the top of the external tank. Just over a minute to go.