Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[TheLadyMore]

I agree with my whole heart. Ronon is a big softie, but big and scary looking (and not very wordy) he had a good influence on Jennifer. He seemed to inspire her to toughen up, and in turn he became softer and sweet around her. That's what I like in my fav couples; when they make each other react and behave in way not expected.

Exactly Ronon's a big teddy bear you just got to know him well. But not only did Ronon give Jennifer confidence, but in a way he found to ability to love in a romantic way again after the death of his wife. Which is something he needed after 7 hard years of running and being victimized by the wraith, knowing nothing but Carnage and tragedy.

Come to think about it, their relationship in a way is reminiscent of John and Elizabeth's *Ponders*

[Southern Red]

Back from a day of fun with a few moments to spare. My favorites in order:

Vegas
Echoes
The Storm/The Eye
BIS
The Real World
Siege 2/3
Conversion
Lifeline
Adrift

Why those last two you ask? Because they showed the depth of John's feelings for Elizabeth. Always a good thing in my book. And because I'm a sucker for angst.

[Scary Kitty]

Aaand time for me to head for the bed - I work tomorrow! See you all after I get home! *hugs all around*

*hugs* Nighty-night, Anuna! Pleasant Sparky dreams!

Exactly Ronon's a big teddy bear you just got to know him well. But not only did Ronon give Jennifer confidence, but in a way he found to ability to love in a romantic way again after the death of his wife. Which is something he needed after 7 hard years of running and being victimized by the wraith, knowing nothing but Carnage and tragedy.

Come to think about it, their relationship in a way is reminiscent of John and Elizabeth's *Ponders*

Many of us have always thought that Ronon has totally got John's number when it comes to John's feelings about Elizabeth, and that Ronon in particular would understand John's grief, considering that Ronon also lost his lady love to a terrible enemy in war.

[TheLadyMore]

Many of us have always thought that Ronon has totally got John's number when it comes to John's feelings about Elizabeth, and that Ronon in particular would understand John's grief, considering that Ronon also lost his lady love to a terrible enemy in war.

Thats why they are good friends...they are brothers not in blood but in bound.

[JT-2]

*hugs* Nighty-night, Anuna! Pleasant Sparky dreams!



Many of us have always thought that Ronon has totally got John's number when it comes to John's feelings about Elizabeth, and that Ronon in particular would understand John's grief, considering that Ronon also lost his lady love to a terrible enemy in war.

Agreed! I think he might have thought John had feelings for Teyla, but then saw how John changed after they lost Elizabeth. I'm sure he recognized that same change from his own life. I'm thinking of Miller's Crossing in particular, with the scene where they discuss Rodney working on the nanites. Ronon keeps glancing at John when Elizabeth is brought up. Ronon also keeps looking at John a lot in GitM.

[Falcon Horus]

Here's a question to (maybe) get some discussion going. What are you favorite episodes? Your personal top 10.

My top 10 is rather skewed seeings as I only have 5 favorites... ...and they're not there for any sort of Sparky-reason either.

For the oblivious among us (if there are even still oblivious people left in this place):

* The Gift
* Echoes
* Michael
* Duet
* Doppelganger

And in an attempt to complete the list there's also...

* Critical Mass
* The Rising I & II
* The Siege I, II & III
* Letters From Pegasus
* The Storm/The Eye


Oh, and I saw William B. Davis in the flesh today - or better known as The Cigarette Smoking Man from The X-Files. He looked exactly the same, like he hadn't aged a day since he played that part.

[Southern Red]

Agreed! I think he might have thought John had feelings for Teyla, but then saw how John changed after they lost Elizabeth. I'm sure he recognized that same change from his own life. I'm thinking of Miller's Crossing in particular, with the scene where they discuss Rodney working on the nanites. Ronon keeps glancing at John when Elizabeth is brought up. Ronon also keeps looking at John a lot in GitM.

I thought the same thing about GitM, particularly that last scene when they are walking with Franibeth to the gate. Ronon gives John such a look like he wants to tell him it will be okay. I think by that time Ronon had definitely changed his mind about who John might want to be with. I've always been sorry they didn't go ahead and ship Ronon and Teyla. In S2 and parts of S3 they just seemed to fit so well.

[Scary Kitty]

Agreed! I think he might have thought John had feelings for Teyla, but then saw how John changed after they lost Elizabeth. I'm sure he recognized that same change from his own life. I'm thinking of Miller's Crossing in particular, with the scene where they discuss Rodney working on the nanites. Ronon keeps glancing at John when Elizabeth is brought up. Ronon also keeps looking at John a lot in GitM.

I thought the same thing about GitM, particularly that last scene when they are walking with Franibeth to the gate. Ronon gives John such a look like he wants to tell him it will be okay. I think by that time Ronon had definitely changed his mind about who John might want to be with. I've always been sorry they didn't go ahead and ship Ronon and Teyla. In S2 and parts of S3 they just seemed to fit so well.

In retrospect, knowing that Ronon apparently knew about Kanaan well before anyone else on Atlantis (with the exception of Elizabeth), I've interpreted Ronon's questioning of John in "Sunday" as motivated by wanting to know if the path was clear for Kanaan and Teyla. 'Cause, you know, John and Kanaan are both Ronon's buddies. And Ronon's always had a front row seat to the Sparky eyesex ever since he arrived on Atlantis.

[TheLadyMore]

Speaking of Sparky Shippers, watching Robert Davi....Kolya....play a cop on TV. For an evil Mofo he's got a fine voice

[gateraid]

Here's a question to (maybe) get some discussion going. What are you favorite episodes? Your personal top 10.

My list (and I know I'm cheating by putting multi-part episodes together):
1. Rising 1/2
2. The Storm/The Eye
3. Before I Sleep
4. The Siege 1/2/3
5. Conversion
6. Coup d'Etat
7. The Real World
8. Common Ground
9. Echoes
10. Tao of Rodney

Honorable Mentions:
The Gift
Critical Mass
The Long Goodbye
Submersion
Lifeline
Vegas

ETA - wow, that list really shows what an Elizabeth/Torri fangirl I am.

Yep, those sound good. I'd nix BIS (boring) and Conversion from there. Phantoms was awesome (sadly no Elizabeth but the ep is a great character ep regardless), as were The Gift, CM, FS & LL, Michael, Poisoning the Well... Different strokes for different folks

Yes - I really LOVE Quarantine and I think it's a solid, well done character episode. It even shows how much carter doesn't really fit in, right in those scenes with Zelenka. I wasn't thrilled about Katie and Rodney, but when I think back, it wasn't a bad way to end a relationship, if it had to be done. I think Quarantine was lovely, with many human moments. carl Binder knows how to write realistic human beings with their qualities and flaws without making them look stupid or unrealistic. my favorite bits were between Jennifer and Ronon and Teyla and John - actually, teyla and John scenes were my favorite. The episode did a good job of showing them as friends, and they finally had a quality conversation that actually happened on screen.

I only seem to remember the Zelenka scene with Carter and that pissed me off. But I'll watch it again for my S4/S5 rewatch.

Yeah that scene can be a little annoying, but if anything it serves to show that Carter doesn't really belong there. Only thing that bothers me is that she turns out to be "smarter" ... ah well. I am inclined to forgive that, because rest of the episode is good. I also loved how they all worked together toward the end of the ep, in order to solve the situation.

As probably the only Carter fan here, I feel obliged to defend her. She doesn't 'turn out' to be smarter than Zelenka, she is smarter than him. That's how she was written for the previous ten years. Even Mckay admits in GUP that every time they've worked together, she's been right and he's been wrong. Quarantine was the only time in s4 that she actually got to prove this. Unfortunately, according to the commentary with MG, they were also trying to illustrate (and again in Trio) that nobody liked Zelenka. Fail. I'm not saying that she's always going to have the right solution for everything - heck, if you gave the three of them a dozen problems to fix, they'd probably come out equal. They've got different strengths. Unfortunately, when she moved to Atlantis, they chose to forget that she was both a reasonable officer and a damned good scientist/engineer.

Back from a day of fun with a few moments to spare. My favorites in order:

Vegas
Echoes
The Storm/The Eye
BIS
The Real World
Siege 2/3
Conversion
Lifeline
Adrift

Why those last two you ask? Because they showed the depth of John's feelings for Elizabeth. Always a good thing in my book. And because I'm a sucker for angst.

Those last two were good eps. I don't like the ending, but they deserve to be acknowledged.

[Southern Red]

In retrospect, knowing that Ronon apparently knew about Kanaan well before anyone else on Atlantis (with the exception of Elizabeth), I've interpreted Ronon's questioning of John in "Sunday" as motivated by wanting to know if the path was clear for Kanaan and Teyla. 'Cause, you know, John and Kanaan are both Ronon's buddies. And Ronon's always had a front row seat to the Sparky eyesex ever since he arrived on Atlantis.

Agreed. John started asking Ronon personal questions in Sunday and Ronon felt he could do the same. He turned it right back on him with "what about you?" and then when he got the straight answer about John's marriage, he felt free to keep going and ask him about Teyla. Who knows what would have happened next? I really wish we could have gotten the rest of what John was going to say there.

[Eri13]

Aaaand I present you a snippet from BoD! CFomments are welcome. Boy, this was tricky - but not for a reason you might think. And I am so happy to say that I didn't feel any awkwardness while writing this.

Spoiler:

Teyla let her feet dangle in the air, cherishing the feeling of afternoon sun on her face. Here it was peaceful and she marveled on that – it seemed like a rare constant in this predicament. The footsteps soon padded across the pier and towards her and she was not surprised. There was a peace to this moment she didn’t want to ruin, and she remained unmoving when john sat next to her.

“Enjoying yourself?” he asked. She smiled, studying him from the corner of her eye. His pleasant smile didn’t quite match the awkwardness that hung around him, and certain impatience he seemed to carry.

“Yes, quite,” she said.

“Have you – uh,” his voice trailed off and she looked up at him.

“Have I chosen?” she finished. John’s face twitched in a way that seemed familiar to her. Teyla folded one leg under her; feeling the cold of the air wrapping around her toes. John turned his face toward the rippling water, and Teyla guessed he was trying to distance himself form whatever she was going to say.

In all her memory of him – everything that she did remember – there was one thing she had always suspected about John, but never directly asked him. But now the sentiment lay bare between them and she realized, clearly, what was that he seemed to be most afraid of.

Rejection.

“John, look at me,” she demanded softly. She would never leave him with this belief, even if she wasn’t certain with herself, she wanted him to be certain about her and what she thought and felt for him.

Hesitating for just a moment, John met her eyes. Teyla adjusted her position, so she could face him and took one of his hands between her palms. She contemplated the strength and roughness for a moment, letting her thoughts and associations run free through her head. She respected him, she cared for him, and if she was honest with herself, there was a reason why her peculiar journey took her here. However that reason was such long, long time ago.

“This is not bad,” she said.

He crooked a grin, giving her an almost amused look.

“Glad to hear it.”

His words made her smile and she lifted her head to take a better look at his face, his eyes.

“I always considered you strong, and honorable,” she hoped he could see the sentiment on her face, knowing that John wasn’t very comfortable with verbal expressions of affection. “And I think I did not always agree with you. But I am your friend, as you are mine.”

He nodded slowly. Teyla looked down onto their joined hands, thinking of different ways her life had changed since Atlantis, and John, had appeared in her life.

He was worthy to her, precious. She knew that she would do almost anything for him, including putting her life on a line, and considering everything this peculiar time travel threw her way, the current circumstances were definitely not bad.

But there was something else. She continued on, carefully, as she watched their hands.

“John… could you live your life not knowing how it came to be the way it is now? To say that I cannot remember…,” she looked up at him, “- loving you, it is unsettling to say the least.”

“I believe you,” he breathed.

“It is too important, not to be remembered. And the further that I go –“

He seemed to understand what she was trying to say. His face reflected the tightness she was feeling in her chest. She squeezed his hands and got up quickly, deciding that it was best if she left and unintentionally ruined something fragile and too worthy.

John’s voice reached her before she was able to exit through the door.

“Teyla?”

She turned around.

“Yes?”

She couldn’t help but feel certain sadness as she watched him get up, slowness in his moving. He shoved his hands in his pockets, only to come up with his right hand and scratch the back of his head. It all seemed too familiar, but then, too, like a painting hanging tilted on the wall.

“There’s… the story of Pandora,” he said, his eyes reaching hers. “Remember it?”

Teyla frowned for a moment, searching for the name through her scattered memories and then smiled. Early on, John took often upon himself to teach her tidbits of Earth culture, and often she had asked him to explain references she did not understand.

She remembered thinking how strange story it was, and the suddenly realized what he was trying to tell her.

“Remember it?”

“Yes,” she said softly.

His smile was simple and filled with regret. It felt almost as if he had made the choice for her – but then she quickly realized that choices were hers, and hers alone; and there was peace within that notion. There were choices <i>she</i> was making – and there were reasons for them. It was this, that she had to trust.

When John came to pass her, Teyla managed to catch his arm, and there in the silence of the pier she bowed her forehead to his.

The last thing which remained in the box was hope.

Ooo, that gave me CHILLS! I loved the analogy! Hey...

Spoiler:

Since the Ancients seemed to be the source of many of the myths of the Earth cultures, are you actually making this machine the original 'Pandora's Box?' That would be so wicked!!!

Awesome job! This is going to be so good!

Yep, those sound good. I'd nix BIS (boring) and Conversion from there. Phantoms was awesome (sadly no Elizabeth but the ep is a great character ep regardless), as were The Gift, CM, FS & LL, Michael, Poisoning the Well... Different strokes for different folks

As probably the only Carter fan here, I feel obliged to defend her. She doesn't 'turn out' to be smarter than Zelenka, she is smarter than him. That's how she was written for the previous ten years. Even Mckay admits in GUP that every time they've worked together, she's been right and he's been wrong. Quarantine was the only time in s4 that she actually got to prove this. Unfortunately, according to the commentary with MG, they were also trying to illustrate (and again in Trio) that nobody liked Zelenka. Fail. I'm not saying that she's always going to have the right solution for everything - heck, if you gave the three of them a dozen problems to fix, they'd probably come out equal. They've got different strengths. Unfortunately, when she moved to Atlantis, they chose to forget that she was both a reasonable officer and a damned good scientist/engineer.

Those last two were good eps. I don't like the ending, but they deserve to be acknowledged.

I agree, too, that Carter was misused (and miscued) in SGA. Being reduced to base commander who didn't solve any of the scientific aspects of things took away her greatest strength from SG-1.

Don't even get me started on what Quarantine did to Zelenka. Though I liked all other parts of the episode, seeing him act like such a doof was literally painful.

Here's a question to (maybe) get some discussion going. What are you favorite episodes? Your personal top 10.

My list (and I know I'm cheating by putting multi-part episodes together):
1. Rising 1/2
2. The Storm/The Eye
3. Before I Sleep
4. The Siege 1/2/3
5. Conversion
6. Coup d'Etat
7. The Real World
8. Common Ground
9. Echoes
10. Tao of Rodney

Honorable Mentions:
The Gift
Critical Mass
The Long Goodbye
Submersion
Lifeline
Vegas

ETA - wow, that list really shows what an Elizabeth/Torri fangirl I am.

Hmmm...okay, no particular order

1) The Storm/Eye
2) The Gift
3) The Real World
4) Submersion
5) Common Ground
6) The Siege Series
7) Intruder
8) Hot Zone
9) Echoes
10) Tao of Rodney

Honorable Mentions (really enjoyed the eppies but I always had Elizabeth-remorse--as in, 'if Elizabeth had been there, this would have been better because...'":

The Seed
Remnants
The Shrine

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

Agreed. John started asking Ronon personal questions in Sunday and Ronon felt he could do the same. He turned it right back on him with "what about you?" and then when he got the straight answer about John's marriage, he felt free to keep going and ask him about Teyla. Who knows what would have happened next? I really wish we could have gotten the rest of what John was going to say there.

That was a great little scene between them.

However, given that MG wrote this episode, I'm not too sure I'd want to know what John might have said next.

Ooo, that gave me CHILLS! I loved the analogy! Hey...

Spoiler:

Since the Ancients seemed to be the source of many of the myths of the Earth cultures, are you actually making this machine the original 'Pandora's Box?' That would be so wicked!!!

*THUD* ZOMG, that's brilliant!

Spoiler:

I think Anuna's original plan was that the box was created by Janus (since he's been involved with other time travel devices), but perhaps the real Pandora was somehow involved with its creation.

Okay, I should probably post my faves list. In no particular order:

The Storm/The Eye
The Siege 1-3
Conversion
Sateda
Common Ground
Vegas
Coup d'Etat
Before I Sleep
Echoes
Rising 1 & 2

[ShipperWriter]

Hey, sorry I haven't been around lately, school/work has been a little nuts. As usual.

I wasn't home over the weekend to get the fics posted, but I'm hoping to finish them up tonight and post both new, albeit short, chapters.

Were y'all talking about teh Sparky moments page I started? If so, we can get to 50 moments, then start favoriting up to 50, so it's more like a poll among us Sparkites to see what the mass concensus says about their favorites!

And back to work. Peace out, be back later!

[Eri13]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

That was a great little scene between them.

However, given that MG wrote this episode, I'm not too sure I'd want to know what John might have said next.

*THUD* ZOMG, that's brilliant!

Spoiler:

I think Anuna's original plan was that the box was created by Janus (since he's been involved with other time travel devices), but perhaps the real Pandora was somehow involved with its creation.

Okay, I should probably post my faves list. In no particular order:

The Storm/The Eye
The Siege 1-3
Conversion
Sateda
Common Ground
Vegas
Coup d'Etat
Before I Sleep
Echoes
Rising 1 & 2

Spoiler:

Was there a real Pandora in SG-1? I don't want to abandon the Janus aspect of it--I love Janus! Maybe he built it for her, or something? Or she tested it and that's why it was locked away, or something?

Lookit us, trying to usurp Anuna's work. Sorry, 'Nuna.