Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Got cookies - they were yummy!

Cookies are awesome.

Believe me, you're not alone. Both my husband and son said the same thing and neither of them is by no means a shipper. Mr. SR has to be hit over the head with it. SR Jr. sees it but usually just shrugs it off. He was so adamant about Sparky in S2, he argued with me when I said it wasn't planned. He held up TLG as proof and patiently explained to his old mom that that's how they do it in SciFi when they are showing the intended ship. The last time we talked about it, he just said he thought the writers were on drugs. LOL

Honestly, when I saw all those episodes for the first time, I was thinking the same thing. I wasn't plugged into the online fandom at the time, so I didn't know about things like how there were supposed to be hints at John and Teyla. All I saw was... what I saw. Bits like John going Rambo to avenge Elizabeth's "death" then heroically rescuing her in the climax of "The Eye," getting her a birthday present in "Before I Sleep," the way that they took the time to have Elizabeth break up with Simon via video message in "Letters From Pegasus" and then put the exclamation point on the 'OMG, she's available!' statement in "The Intruder" when Simon turns around and tells her he's been seeing someone else while she was gone, Elizabeth continuing to visit John in "Conversion," and the whole business with John's motivation to accept Phoebus's proposal in TLG... It all just screamed, "Look at Sheppard and Weir! There's more going on between them than we're showing you! They're so doing it!" While I certainly saw hints at Sheppard being paired with others, I could never take them seriously because those hints never seemed to be presented in as serious and determined a manner as Sheppard/Weir seemed to.

Boy, was I ever surprised when I found out what TPTW's original plans had been. They sure botched that one up.

Yeah The Long Goodbye is maybe the best example I would be able to come up with too. The reason being that the big Sparky kiss didn't really make a lot of sense in my mind. I don't quite understand what reason Phebus would really have to do that. Logically I don't see how that makes her plan any better, the whole scene looked like it was written in there mostly for the audience.

No kidding. You'd think that if Phoebus really wanted Thalan dead, she'd want the most inept member of the expedition possible to host Thalan's consciousness so that she could get a quick and easy kill before her own consciousness went bye-bye.

Humph and I thought SGA writers could give two s**ts about what the fans want.

Only when they want to screw with our heads.

[TheLadyMore]

Only when they want to screw with our heads.

Big meanies!

[Scary Kitty]

Very big meanies.

[SMB_BOOKS]

Hmmmmm.....a little Sparky prompty for today - if the muse hits, drop a drabble paragraph in the thread - just for fun!

Spoiler:

Come up with a completely different scenario for this scene (something different than canon) and write up a little paragraph about it.

[Southern Red]

Yeah The Long Goodbye is maybe the best example I would be able to come up with too. The reason being that the big Sparky kiss didn't really make a lot of sense in my mind. I don't quite understand what reason Phebus would really have to do that. Logically I don't see how that makes her plan any better, the whole scene looked like it was written in there mostly for the audience.

Logic had nothing to do with the writing of this show I fear.

It didn't make any sense for those two not only to kiss but for him to be the one chosen to host Thalan at all. No sense. And in real life, Caldwell never would have allowed it. I can't imagine the discussion they had in the writers' room. Well maybe I can a little.

Spoiler:

Kindler: So my plan is to have Weir and Sheppard become possessed by aliens.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Are they friendly or enemies?
Kindler: Enemies that pretend to be friendly at first.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Friendly to us or to each other?
Kindler: Both. In fact, they pretend to be married.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Sweet. Do they kiss?
Kindler: But of course, gotta throw a bone to the shippers.
Gero: Now, hold on just a minute. Everyone knows he's in love with someone else.
Kindler and Binder: Give it a rest, Marty.

Cookies are awesome.



Honestly, when I saw all those episodes for the first time, I was thinking the same thing. I wasn't plugged into the online fandom at the time, so I didn't know about things like how there were supposed to be hints at John and Teyla. All I saw was... what I saw. Bits like John going Rambo to avenge Elizabeth's "death" then heroically rescuing her in the climax of "The Eye," getting her a birthday present in "Before I Sleep," the way that they took the time to have Elizabeth break up with Simon via video message in "Letters From Pegasus" and then put the exclamation point on the 'OMG, she's available!' statement in "The Intruder" when Simon turns around and tells her he's been seeing someone else while she was gone, Elizabeth continuing to visit John in "Conversion," and the whole business with John's motivation to accept Phoebus's proposal in TLG... It all just screamed, "Look at Sheppard and Weir! There's more going on between them than we're showing you! They're so doing it!" While I certainly saw hints at Sheppard being paired with others, I could never take them seriously because those hints never seemed to be presented in as serious and determined a manner as Sheppard/Weir seemed to.

Boy, was I ever surprised when I found out what TPTW's original plans had been. They sure botched that one up.



No kidding. You'd think that if Phoebus really wanted Thalan dead, she'd want the most inept member of the expedition possible to host Thalan's consciousness so that she could get a quick and easy kill before her own consciousness went bye-bye.



Only when they want to screw with our heads.

I was exactly the same way except that I knew about the intended ship from the beginning and was ready to accept it with a shrug until I actually got into the show. Then, honestly, I thought they must have changed their minds. S2 was just too blatantly Sparky with very little John/Teyla interaction. And like the ending of the Simon/Liz relationship in The Intruder, I saw Conversion as an end to the J/T ship. I did not take bad writing into account at the time. Silly me. I gave them too much credit for logic and thought they may actually be watching the finished product and listening a bit to the fans. Silly me again. No intended slam on that ship but it's hard to understand what TPTB were thinking and surprising to realize that they actually thought they were being obvious. I do find it amusing though that the McSheppers feel the same way and are just as sure their ship was intentional. So you take it all with a grain of salt and go on happily shipping any couple you want to. Just don't tell me Sparky didn't happen.

Oh, and I got off on a tangent and forgot to mention the pot. I read somewhere that one of the things that indicates a "supercouple" in soap operas is an object, something that was a gift usually from one to the other. The pot definitely qualifies for that. They are frequently paired with others but the pairings never last. You know they will eventually end up back together. I saw that also with Sparky.

[Eri13]

I still think at least some of Sparky was written in just to get shippers' attention, but even if it wasn't, a lot of the scenes they had always struck me as too convenient to be an accident. Even if they were. I suppose certain things are easier to mistake for romantic chemistry (especially since Weir and Sheppard were always written to be close, whatever their actual relationship was) but others came across as virtually impossible to ignore. The "defending my honor scene" for example. And I thought it was sort of weird how Elizabeth and John got this big emotional hug at the start of season 2 and the very next episode shows her becoming single again. At the time I thought it was as obvious a plan as you can get. And again, this is coming from someone who very rarely takes notice of "shipping".

Cool discussion! I agree with what SR, said, too, but another episode I would point to would be "The Real World" because, seriously, how obvious do you have to get to point out that only Sheppard could reach her in her nanite-induced AU world, and it was only when he spoke to her that the first breakthrough occurred, and then only when he touched her did she find the strength to save herself. I mean, really? How is that not shippery? It's very easy to make that not so shippy--you simply have other people fill in what John was doing--maybe Rodney does the whole 'I'm not good at this emotional stuff' speech and maybe throw in a third scene where she hears Carson or Teyla reach her, too, then you're arguing that it was the Atlantis family who brought her back. But no, it was just John.

Still makes me believe that some of the writers (Mr. Binder I lookit you) had some ulterior motives to the main schtick.

[gateraid]

And I'm back. Just a snippet, mind you and smutty only if you want to make it so. This is a possible scenario for what happens after they get back from the picnic. It might take some thought as to how this is possible. Hopefully, I won't have to explain it to anybody.

Spoiler:

Did You Hear What Happened to Sheppard and Weir?

“A picnic you say.” Carson spread steroid cream on another large welt on John's back, shaking his head in disbelief.

“Mprmph,” his patient replied from his position face down on the exam table.

“Hard to believe a few wee antlike creatures could have done all this damage. You must have spread your picnic over their burrow and then sat on it.” Carson's voice trailed off as he continued to dab away at John's back, moving down now into the upper thigh area.

John banged his head on the padded table a couple of times. “Just hurry up, please Doc. The itching is making me want to punch something.”

“Patience lad.” Carson put his tube of cream aside for a moment and took a small petrie dish from his nurse. They exchanged a few murmured words and she departed.

“Are those the things that bit me?” John twisted his head around in an attempt to see.

Carson shook the container in front of John's eyes before stowing it on a nearby table and continuing with his ministrations. “Aye, nurse Marie shook these out of your clothes. They appear to be a sort of insect resembling the ant, except for the odd pink color.”

“Huh?” John said, “Pink ants. Where but in the Pegasus Galaxy?”

Carson had moved down to John's feet where he treated the few remaining red and swollen areas before pulling the sheet back up to cover his patient's exposed body.

“Now, tell me again,” Carson said, “how is it that you ended up bitten all the way down your back side but the lass only has a few bites of a smilar nature from the knees down? Because, if you were both sitting on a blanket enjoying your picnic, then why do you not have a similar pattern of bites?”

John reddened slightly and banged his forehead on the table a few more times. “Carson,” he said, struggling to sit up and pull the sheet around him.

But Carson had caught up. “Never you mind,” he said, handing John his neatly folded stack of clothes from which all the dead pink ants had been removed. “That's a conversation for another time. But I hope this will teach the both of you to take along some insect repellent the next time you go on one of your off world picnics. Otherwise, I'll need to order more steroid cream.”

You are a naughty girl

[Southern Red]

Cool discussion! I agree with what SR, said, too, but another episode I would point to would be "The Real World" because, seriously, how obvious do you have to get to point out that only Sheppard could reach her in her nanite-induced AU world, and it was only when he spoke to her that the first breakthrough occurred, and then only when he touched her did she find the strength to save herself. I mean, really? How is that not shippery? It's very easy to make that not so shippy--you simply have other people fill in what John was doing--maybe Rodney does the whole 'I'm not good at this emotional stuff' speech and maybe throw in a third scene where she hears Carson or Teyla reach her, too, then you're arguing that it was the Atlantis family who brought her back. But no, it was just John.

Still makes me believe that some of the writers (Mr. Binder I lookit you) had some ulterior motives to the main schtick.

This! How could I forget that one? I completely did not believe it was John she was seeing. LOL I went back and checked the posts after TRW aired. This is what I wrote in a couple of posts.

Spoiler:

The one connection she couldn't shake to Atlantis was with John. His voice invaded her consciousness. His very presence overcame all the other hallucinations. Now we know he is her rock and her foundation in reality and in fantasy. TH and JF were fabulous. Man, doesn't he do angst well? I have to watch again without the intense handwringing, but I thought the scene when he was talking to her kind of mirrored the Daedalus scene with Teyla. Shippy of course only by us, but undeniably emotional. He cares about this woman. I dare anyone to deny that. And he just seemed on edge the whole time, almost disconnected from the others. He even almost forgot to snark at Rodney for a moment. He seemed to be thinking furiously and peppered Carson with questions. He was clearly in charge even though the infirmary would and should have been Carson's place to shine. And then with a little help from the guys, he came up with the solution and refused to give up. Because, I say, he knows her better that anyone and knew what she would do. I wanted her to thank him at the end, but that was okay. They know each other too well. She probably did that as soon as she saw him, and it would just have embarassed him anyway. The last scene was definitely shippier than usual. Compare it to the last scene in Progeny.

I was struck by how he just walked into her personal space in that scene, and I don't remember seeing him give her that particular look before. It reminded me a little of the last scene in Coup with the subtle flirting, but that intense look and a couple of others were interesting. One time he did the look with a little head tilt. Now I'm a Southern woman and we kinda invented flirting, so I know it when I see it. Did JF come up with the way he played that scene on his own or did he get instruction? Heh? Inquiring minds want to know because if they still insist that this is the ship that doesn't exist, I'm clueless.

You are a naughty girl

Tell me something I don't know.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Logic had nothing to do with the writing of this show I fear.

It didn't make any sense for those two not only to kiss but for him to be the one chosen to host Thalan at all. No sense. And in real life, Caldwell never would have allowed it. I can't imagine the discussion they had in the writers' room. Well maybe I can a little.

Spoiler:

Kindler: So my plan is to have Weir and Sheppard become possessed by aliens.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Are they friendly or enemies?
Kindler: Enemies that pretend to be friendly at first.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Friendly to us or to each other?
Kindler: Both. In fact, they pretend to be married.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Sweet. Do they kiss?
Kindler: But of course, gotta throw a bone to the shippers.
Gero: Now, hold on just a minute. Everyone knows he's in love with someone else.
Kindler and Binder: Give it a rest, Marty.

I was exactly the same way except that I knew about the intended ship from the beginning and was ready to accept it with a shrug until I actually got into the show. Then, honestly, I thought they must have changed their minds. S2 was just too blatantly Sparky with very little John/Teyla interaction. And like the ending of the Simon/Liz relationship in The Intruder, I saw Conversion as an end to the J/T ship. I did not take bad writing into account at the time. Silly me. I gave them too much credit for logic and thought they may actually be watching the finished product and listening a bit to the fans. Silly me again. No intended slam on that ship but it's hard to understand what TPTB were thinking and surprising to realize that they actually thought they were being obvious. I do find it amusing though that the McSheppers feel the same way and are just as sure their ship was intentional. So you take it all with a grain of salt and go on happily shipping any couple you want to. Just don't tell me Sparky didn't happen.

Heh, when I finally found out that supposedly TPTW had originally planned to pair Sheppard with Teyla, my first reaction was, 'oh, they must have changed their minds when they saw how hot Sheppard and Weir were together.' Then I found out that TPTW were still denying Sheppard/Weir and were getting rid of Weir. To quote Shakespeare, 'what fools these mortals be.'

Oh, and I got off on a tangent and forgot to mention the pot. I read somewhere that one of the things that indicates a "supercouple" in soap operas is an object, something that was a gift usually from one to the other. The pot definitely qualifies for that. They are frequently paired with others but the pairings never last. You know they will eventually end up back together. I saw that also with Sparky.

Oh yes indeedy, that's why The Pot is the holy grail of Sparky fandom. It's the symbol of their love!

Cool discussion! I agree with what SR, said, too, but another episode I would point to would be "The Real World" because, seriously, how obvious do you have to get to point out that only Sheppard could reach her in her nanite-induced AU world, and it was only when he spoke to her that the first breakthrough occurred, and then only when he touched her did she find the strength to save herself. I mean, really? How is that not shippery? It's very easy to make that not so shippy--you simply have other people fill in what John was doing--maybe Rodney does the whole 'I'm not good at this emotional stuff' speech and maybe throw in a third scene where she hears Carson or Teyla reach her, too, then you're arguing that it was the Atlantis family who brought her back. But no, it was just John.

Still makes me believe that some of the writers (Mr. Binder I lookit you) had some ulterior motives to the main schtick.

OMG! TRW is EPIC for Sparky, isn't it? I mean, sure, one could argue that the reason why it had to be Sheppard to get through to Weir was because he has the mad ATA gene skillz and could manipulate her nanites (which were, of course, originally created by the Ancients) better than even Carson (who's also got the gene naturally) or Rodney (who got the gene therapy). Heck, I believe that happened as part of my personal canon. But I also believe that there was something more to it than just the gene. He loves her. And she has to love him in return in order for his love to do any good at reaching her. That has to be it. No one can ever convince me otherwise.

[Eri13]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!



Heh, when I finally found out that supposedly TPTW had originally planned to pair Sheppard with Teyla, my first reaction was, 'oh, they must have changed their minds when they saw how hot Sheppard and Weir were together.' Then I found out that TPTW were still denying Sheppard/Weir and were getting rid of Weir. To quote Shakespeare, 'what fools these mortals be.'

Oh yes indeedy, that's why The Pot is the holy grail of Sparky fandom. It's the symbol of their love!

OMG! TRW is EPIC for Sparky, isn't it? I mean, sure, one could argue that the reason why it had to be Sheppard to get through to Weir was because he has the mad ATA gene skillz and could manipulate her nanites (which were, of course, originally created by the Ancients) better than even Carson (who's also got the gene naturally) or Rodney (who got the gene therapy). Heck, I believe that happened as part of my personal canon. But I also believe that there was something more to it than just the gene. He loves her. And she has to love him in return in order for his love to do any good at reaching her. That has to be it. No one can ever convince me otherwise.

I'm a total canon-o-phile or whatever you might call it, and you've got even me stretching to believe the nanite-ancient gene connection, only because it was never mentioned and never alluded to in regards to these replicators. We knew the replicators could manipulate ancient devices, but never that there was a direct correlation between they and the ancient gene (though they couldn't attack Helia and the crew of the Tria until their code was overridden, they also had no problem taking Rodney and John hostage in Progeny and mind-probing them--which, if you go towards the ancient gene argument, would seem the counterargument to it, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to hurt John and Rodney in that manner.)

This! How could I forget that one? I completely did not believe it was John she was seeing. LOL I went back and checked the posts after TRW aired. This is what I wrote in a couple of posts.

Spoiler:

The one connection she couldn't shake to Atlantis was with John. His voice invaded her consciousness. His very presence overcame all the other hallucinations. Now we know he is her rock and her foundation in reality and in fantasy. TH and JF were fabulous. Man, doesn't he do angst well? I have to watch again without the intense handwringing, but I thought the scene when he was talking to her kind of mirrored the Daedalus scene with Teyla. Shippy of course only by us, but undeniably emotional. He cares about this woman. I dare anyone to deny that. And he just seemed on edge the whole time, almost disconnected from the others. He even almost forgot to snark at Rodney for a moment. He seemed to be thinking furiously and peppered Carson with questions. He was clearly in charge even though the infirmary would and should have been Carson's place to shine. And then with a little help from the guys, he came up with the solution and refused to give up. Because, I say, he knows her better that anyone and knew what she would do. I wanted her to thank him at the end, but that was okay. They know each other too well. She probably did that as soon as she saw him, and it would just have embarassed him anyway. The last scene was definitely shippier than usual. Compare it to the last scene in Progeny.

I was struck by how he just walked into her personal space in that scene, and I don't remember seeing him give her that particular look before. It reminded me a little of the last scene in Coup with the subtle flirting, but that intense look and a couple of others were interesting. One time he did the look with a little head tilt. Now I'm a Southern woman and we kinda invented flirting, so I know it when I see it. Did JF come up with the way he played that scene on his own or did he get instruction? Heh? Inquiring minds want to know because if they still insist that this is the ship that doesn't exist, I'm clueless.

Tell me something I don't know.

I like how you pointed out John was out of sorts in that episode and it was really true--in fact, it sort of foreshadowed his behavior in S4/S5. There was no John snarking in TRW that I can think of...

[Scary Kitty]

I'm a total canon-o-phile or whatever you might call it, and you've got even me stretching to believe the nanite-ancient gene connection, only because it was never mentioned and never alluded to in regards to these replicators. We knew the replicators could manipulate ancient devices, but never that there was a direct correlation between they and the ancient gene (though they couldn't attack Helia and the crew of the Tria until their code was overridden, they also had no problem taking Rodney and John hostage in Progeny and mind-probing them--which, if you go towards the ancient gene argument, would seem the counterargument to it, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to hurt John and Rodney in that manner.)

Yeah, the fact that the Asurans still went after John and Rodney is troublesome to the theory. Of course, they weren't Ancients; they had the gene, but they weren't, to use a Sheppardism, "Ancienty" enough. I suppose that whatever that extra "Ancienty" factor was, it made enough of a difference. *shrugs* Who knows? Hey, if TPTW can handwave stuff...

I like how you pointed out John was out of sorts in that episode and it was really true--in fact, it sort of foreshadowed his behavior in S4/S5. There was no John snarking in TRW that I can think of...

Foreshadowing. We loves it.

[Southern Red]

I'm a total canon-o-phile or whatever you might call it, and you've got even me stretching to believe the nanite-ancient gene connection, only because it was never mentioned and never alluded to in regards to these replicators. We knew the replicators could manipulate ancient devices, but never that there was a direct correlation between they and the ancient gene (though they couldn't attack Helia and the crew of the Tria until their code was overridden, they also had no problem taking Rodney and John hostage in Progeny and mind-probing them--which, if you go towards the ancient gene argument, would seem the counterargument to it, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to hurt John and Rodney in that manner.)



I like how you pointed out John was out of sorts in that episode and it was really true--in fact, it sort of foreshadowed his behavior in S4/S5. There was no John snarking in TRW that I can think of...

Looking back I guess I was prescient. LOL

And the thing I love most about SGARising is our total devotion to canon. I find some of the arguments going on right now about those new novels to be quite interesting. Evidently, the Wraith have been retooled a bit. LOL

[Scary Kitty]

Looking back I guess I was prescient. LOL

And the thing I love most about SGARising is our total devotion to canon. I find some of the arguments going on right now about those new novels to be quite interesting. Evidently, the Wraith have been retooled a bit. LOL

Retooled? That's probably the understatement of the year.

[Falcon Horus]

I find some of the arguments going on right now about those new novels to be quite interesting. Evidently, the Wraith have been retooled a bit. LOL

Like that hasn't happened before... they went from "hard to kill" to "one bullet will do it". Though I don't know how they've been retooled in the novels. I know they have names now.

[JT-2]

Fun discussion!

No kidding. You'd think that if Phoebus really wanted Thalan dead, she'd want the most inept member of the expedition possible to host Thalan's consciousness so that she could get a quick and easy kill before her own consciousness went bye-bye.

Or she could have just killed Thalan's real body while he was still in the pod. Or told them all that he didn't want to be imprinted and let him die a natural death. The whole plot would have made more logical sense if both Sheppard and Weir were imprinted at the same time. Then you wouldn't have the headdesking at them all allowing it, especially in the presence of someone just de-Goa'ulded.

It didn't make any sense for those two not only to kiss but for him to be the one chosen to host Thalan at all. No sense. And in real life, Caldwell never would have allowed it. I can't imagine the discussion they had in the writers' room. Well maybe I can a little.

Spoiler:

Kindler: So my plan is to have Weir and Sheppard become possessed by aliens.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Are they friendly or enemies?
Kindler: Enemies that pretend to be friendly at first.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Friendly to us or to each other?
Kindler: Both. In fact, they pretend to be married.
Gero: Sounds good to me.
Binder: Sweet. Do they kiss?
Kindler: But of course, gotta throw a bone to the shippers.
Gero: Now, hold on just a minute. Everyone knows he's in love with someone else.
Kindler and Binder: Give it a rest, Marty.

Spoiler:

Gero: But they don't fight with sticks, they have no UST!
Binder: Omg how old are you?
Kindler: Wait, didn't you write The Eye?

I was exactly the same way except that I knew about the intended ship from the beginning and was ready to accept it with a shrug until I actually got into the show. Then, honestly, I thought they must have changed their minds. S2 was just too blatantly Sparky with very little John/Teyla interaction. And like the ending of the Simon/Liz relationship in The Intruder, I saw Conversion as an end to the J/T ship. I did not take bad writing into account at the time. Silly me. I gave them too much credit for logic and thought they may actually be watching the finished product and listening a bit to the fans. Silly me again. No intended slam on that ship but it's hard to understand what TPTB were thinking and surprising to realize that they actually thought they were being obvious. I do find it amusing though that the McSheppers feel the same way and are just as sure their ship was intentional. So you take it all with a grain of salt and go on happily shipping any couple you want to. Just don't tell me Sparky didn't happen.

Actually I see more written McShep than J/T. There's alot more interaction between J/R to analyze. I just see it more as friendship than romance. But there are things I think were on purpose. Lifeline's "penetrate" line, as well as "nice kissing" left me feeling icky. I enjoy seeing/reading gay relationships as much as het, but only if I think the characters might be gay and I don't think either John or Rodney are. Besides I don't think John would go for Rodney

Oh, and I got off on a tangent and forgot to mention the pot. I read somewhere that one of the things that indicates a "supercouple" in soap operas is an object, something that was a gift usually from one to the other. The pot definitely qualifies for that. They are frequently paired with others but the pairings never last. You know they will eventually end up back together. I saw that also with Sparky.

I didn't know that. ... trying to think back to my soap days... hmmm, must not have happened in the shows I was watching. Or else I wasn't paying attention. Damn, I miss my soaps.

Cool discussion! I agree with what SR, said, too, but another episode I would point to would be "The Real World" because, seriously, how obvious do you have to get to point out that only Sheppard could reach her in her nanite-induced AU world, and it was only when he spoke to her that the first breakthrough occurred, and then only when he touched her did she find the strength to save herself. I mean, really? How is that not shippery? It's very easy to make that not so shippy--you simply have other people fill in what John was doing--maybe Rodney does the whole 'I'm not good at this emotional stuff' speech and maybe throw in a third scene where she hears Carson or Teyla reach her, too, then you're arguing that it was the Atlantis family who brought her back. But no, it was just John.

Still makes me believe that some of the writers (Mr. Binder I lookit you) had some ulterior motives to the main schtick.

I could accept TRW just showed their friendship, but no romance. It's not what I believe, but I can see other people thinking that. However, when people say they weren't friends and only talked about work? Ok, that's just wrong.

OMG! TRW is EPIC for Sparky, isn't it? I mean, sure, one could argue that the reason why it had to be Sheppard to get through to Weir was because he has the mad ATA gene skillz and could manipulate her nanites (which were, of course, originally created by the Ancients) better than even Carson (who's also got the gene naturally) or Rodney (who got the gene therapy). Heck, I believe that happened as part of my personal canon. But I also believe that there was something more to it than just the gene. He loves her. And she has to love him in return in order for his love to do any good at reaching her. That has to be it. No one can ever convince me otherwise.

I thought John didn't get infected because of his ancient gene, like in Hot Zone? But I have no idea why he could talk to her once he was touching her. Except the power of love (Celine Dion starts singing)

And the thing I love most about SGARising is our total devotion to canon. I find some of the arguments going on right now about those new novels to be quite interesting. Evidently, the Wraith have been retooled a bit. LOL

Um, what? Link please?