Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Looking back on 2010 from a Sparky perspective we had many occasions to

Spoiler:

After 2 years without SGA being on the air and longer than that without our ship of choice being on screen together, we are still

Spoiler:

This year we had no less than famous photographer Martin Firrell call Sparky

Spoiler:

This was topped by SGARising winning the endorsement of none other than Joe Flanigan who said that we "showed a lot of initiative" and then went on to pass out our cards at a con.

Several of us got to meet both Joe and Torri at cons and a group even went to see Torri in her play in LA.

I got the best hug of my life.

Spoiler:

And now going into 2011, SGARising is progressing by leaps and bounds and will soon roll out our first episode.

So for all Sparky fans out there

Happy New Year!!

[Pocus]

[gateraid]

Fly-by-post:

As promised, here is my breakdown of key timeline/background points from SGU. I've tried to restrict this to information that may prove directly useful to planning for Atlantis Rising, especially in terms of developments in the situation with the Lucian Alliance, as well as discoveries regarding Ancient technology and its history that may come into play in Atlantis. Instead of going episode by episode, I'm presenting this in timeline format to give a better idea of exactly what happened when. My personal commentary is highlighted in purple.

<uber!snip>

There's a lot covered in this summation (hours and hours of tv), and given that I've not watched SGU yet, I can't really do it justice. Skimming through that though, a few things stuck out to me:

* the point over whether Dr Weir knew about the Icarus project is a good one. Presumably, if they briefed her (as head of Atlantis), then they would have briefed Sheppard too, but my bet would be they would be the only ones in the loop. However, O'Neill definitely would have known, and was probed by the Asurans in TR II, but this is outside the timeline, no? If your asking for my opinion, then Weir probably wouldn't have known (given that she didn't know about the military offensive in First Strike until it actually happened), but that gets a bit murky when you factor in that the information was found in the Atlantis database.

* how much the Asurans know about the whole affair is difficult to - was their database a straight "copy & paste" of the Atlantis one, or was it more selective than that. If it was a copy, then they've known about Destiny etc from the get go, and have chosen not to do anything about it. Any info that Weir & O'Neill provided would've been already known, other than the fact that now Stargate Command knows too.

* all that LA stuff seems to fit in quite well. Given that you've already discussed this at length in relation to specific eps, I'll leave it out for now, as the writers of those eps will be considerably more up to date and invested than myself. I would add that it seems even less likely now that the IOA/SGC would want Atlantis to leave Earth, unless it was Atlantis specifically the LA were after.

* the background radiation. Hmmm. Knowing these idiots, they probably will say that the 'entity' is a Furling. I can only speculate here, but given some of the other stuff you've posted, it's possible that the background radiation is actually a simulation to determine if he is, well, nuts. I hope this is the case (sans the insanity), otherwise it yet again paints the Ancients as morons who 'forgot' they had a ship out there searching for the meaning of life. Sure, given its skant mention in the database, it may have been on a need-to-know basis, but it would've been a big deal when it was launched. Still, I suppose the people of Earth forgot about the two Stargates in a shorter period of time *shrugs*

* there is also the point of if the cosmic message exists, then why didn't the Ori try to find it? Wouldn't they have wanted to meet/kill/convert 'God'? Or did they just not know about this?

* Woolsey's command of Atlantis may or may not have changed. Sending him off world to negotiate is an odd choice to me, but whatever, it's done. The fact that he is wearing a suit doesn't mean much to me - he is going as a representative of Earth, not Atlantis.

It is possible that given that Atlantis is on Earth, SG missions may only be running out of the SGC, with simply research and repairs being carried out on Atlantis. If that is the case, the issue of who is running Atlantis isn't so important. Woolsey may still be doing it (which seems more likely to me, given that there would be less military involvement), which frees him up to still be in command during Atlantis Rising. If that were the case, Shep would simply be minding the store in his capacity of 2IC while Woolsey was acting as a consultant to the SGC.

The other option (other than somebody completely different being in charge, which is equally plausible) is that because missions are being run out of either the SGC or Atlantis (it seems unlikely it would be both), then Landry is the 'head' of Atlantis, with a subordinate (Sheppard) running things there but reporting directly to him. If that were the case, I'd have been tempted to reassign Carter to oversee the repairs, but presumably her duties on the Hammond rule her out (and the timeline).

I have to echo what Southern Red has said - it is unlikely that Sheppard would be placed in command whilst Atlantis is on Earth. He'd more than likely go back to the SGC as a team leader (being moved sideways)

* the thoughts on the thought machine and Box of Dreams seem to tie in quite well, if that is a direction you want to take. It may be a simple as adding a throwaway line of exposition.

* why did the Ancients feel the need to add the ATA gene requirement into their systems, given that Destiny is older than Atlantis and every other piece of tech they've discovered on Earth/PG? Was it to stop the Ori? Although, this may or may not have worked, they may have had the gene too (quite likely, I'd have thought).

There is so much info in there, I've not really done it or Scary Kitty justice. As I said, those were the things that first came to mind. I'll re-read it when I return from holiday (it's a slow New Year's morning here, so I'm taking the opportunity to do this). Many happy returns

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Pretty Friday and HAPPY NEW YEAR'S EVE!!!!!

Anyway, very impressive list SK. I have to say even though I'd seen all of the SGU episodes so far, I didn't expect you to use that much information from them.

*salutes* Thanks! I see the info dump as mostly things that may not actually end up being directly referred to in Atlantis Rising, but that we writers will probably need to know in the backs of our minds, just to make sure that we get the 'feel' of an SGU-era Earth correct. 'Cause it's all about canon.

No, there is no way the IOA would put John in charge while Atlantis is on Earth. I'm betting John is back at the SGC or somewhere that makes him miserable. But remember, this is only temporary. Both SGARising and the movie which will no longer be made have the city eventually going back to Pegasus. The time Atlantis spends on Earth is going to be a huge political struggle which in reality John would be on the edge of and have no say in what happens.

Miserable is right. He'll be back on Earth, and all he'll want to do is take Atlantis and get the heck back to Pegasus. Except his hands are tied.

Excellent job on the SGU summary. Since I only watched the pilot and remember very little of that I can't comment much but it seems there are a number of facts we need to keep in mind in order to be accurate.

*salutes some more* Definitely. Background, more than anything else, but especially important to the political situation on Earth that we'll be dealing with right away. Depending on how things go, it could be an ongoing issue that'll come back to haunt Our Heroes at the end of the season, too. Heheheh...

There's a lot covered in this summation (hours and hours of tv), and given that I've not watched SGU yet, I can't really do it justice. Skimming through that though, a few things stuck out to me:

* the point over whether Dr Weir knew about the Icarus project is a good one. Presumably, if they briefed her (as head of Atlantis), then they would have briefed Sheppard too, but my bet would be they would be the only ones in the loop. However, O'Neill definitely would have known, and was probed by the Asurans in TR II, but this is outside the timeline, no? If your asking for my opinion, then Weir probably wouldn't have known (given that she didn't know about the military offensive in First Strike until it actually happened), but that gets a bit murky when you factor in that the information was found in the Atlantis database.

* how much the Asurans know about the whole affair is difficult to - was their database a straight "copy & paste" of the Atlantis one, or was it more selective than that. If it was a copy, then they've known about Destiny etc from the get go, and have chosen not to do anything about it. Any info that Weir & O'Neill provided would've been already known, other than the fact that now Stargate Command knows too.

Last night, Eri and I were discussing via email the issue of what Elizabeth may have known and when she knew it with regards to Destiny. Eri suggested the idea of tying in the discovery of the nine chevron address to when Daniel was in Atlantis for SG-1's "The Pegasus Project." I think it's a good call, it fits into the timeline well and certainly allows for Elizabeth to be aware of at least the broader details prior to her capture on Asuras.

As far as the Asurans not actually doing anything about Destiny themselves, well, wiping out the Wraith and the humans seemed to be numbers one and two on their list of priorities. Destiny was probably far, far lower on the list.

* all that LA stuff seems to fit in quite well. Given that you've already discussed this at length in relation to specific eps, I'll leave it out for now, as the writers of those eps will be considerably more up to date and invested than myself. I would add that it seems even less likely now that the IOA/SGC would want Atlantis to leave Earth, unless it was Atlantis specifically the LA were after.

You know, that's something else I've considered. One would assume that the IOA would be all hot to keep their shiny new toy on Earth, but it's possible that the Lucian Alliance could be gunning for Earth specifically to go after Atlantis. Apparently, the plans for the attack on Earth were set before the LA tried to take over Destiny, as at least two of the LA strike team survivors knew of the attack (Ginn, and Simeon, the guy who killed her and then was killed by Rush). The LA may simply be looking to eliminate Earth as a rival, but especially now that their attempt to take Destiny has been thwarted, they could be looking at grabbing Atlantis as an alternate prize. I can see some in the IOA/Homeworld Command lobbying to send Atlantis away from Earth to keep it from falling into the hands of the LA.

* the background radiation. Hmmm. Knowing these idiots, they probably will say that the 'entity' is a Furling. I can only speculate here, but given some of the other stuff you've posted, it's possible that the background radiation is actually a simulation to determine if he is, well, nuts. I hope this is the case (sans the insanity), otherwise it yet again paints the Ancients as morons who 'forgot' they had a ship out there searching for the meaning of life. Sure, given its skant mention in the database, it may have been on a need-to-know basis, but it would've been a big deal when it was launched. Still, I suppose the people of Earth forgot about the two Stargates in a shorter period of time *shrugs*

The Furlings? *dies laughing*

Hmm, the message being just another of Destiny's tests, this time for Rush? That's a truly diabolical idea.

I can see the possibility of Destiny being on a need-to-know basis; after all, there was no info in the database about what was on Asuras, either.

* there is also the point of if the cosmic message exists, then why didn't the Ori try to find it? Wouldn't they have wanted to meet/kill/convert 'God'? Or did they just not know about this?

Now that's an interesting question? It's possible that the discovery wasn't made until after the split from the Ori, which would explain why they didn't know about it.

* Woolsey's command of Atlantis may or may not have changed. Sending him off world to negotiate is an odd choice to me, but whatever, it's done. The fact that he is wearing a suit doesn't mean much to me - he is going as a representative of Earth, not Atlantis.
It is possible that given that Atlantis is on Earth, SG missions may only be running out of the SGC, with simply research and repairs being carried out on Atlantis. If that is the case, the issue of who is running Atlantis isn't so important. Woolsey may still be doing it (which seems more likely to me, given that there would be less military involvement), which frees him up to still be in command during Atlantis Rising. If that were the case, Shep would simply be minding the store in his capacity of 2IC while Woolsey was acting as a consultant to the SGC.
The other option (other than somebody completely different being in charge, which is equally plausible) is that because missions are being run out of either the SGC or Atlantis (it seems unlikely it would be both), then Landry is the 'head' of Atlantis, with a subordinate (Sheppard) running things there but reporting directly to him. If that were the case, I'd have been tempted to reassign Carter to oversee the repairs, but presumably her duties on the Hammond rule her out (and the timeline).

I think any combination of these is possible; certainly, with more science teams undoubtedly swarming over the city and presumably less of a need for a military presence, it may very well be that both Woolsey and Sheppard are somewhat at loose ends at the moment.

* the thoughts on the thought machine and Box of Dreams seem to tie in quite well, if that is a direction you want to take. It may be a simple as adding a throwaway line of exposition.

Yeah, I'm thinking a throwaway line is probably all we need. But it's a nifty little connection to make.

* why did the Ancients feel the need to add the ATA gene requirement into their systems, given that Destiny is older than Atlantis and every other piece of tech they've discovered on Earth/PG? Was it to stop the Ori? Although, this may or may not have worked, they may have had the gene too (quite likely, I'd have thought).

Another good question. I certainly want to dig more into ATA and what gene carriers experience when interfacing with the technology, so that's something to consider.

There is so much info in there, I've not really done it or Scary Kitty justice. As I said, those were the things that first came to mind. I'll re-read it when I return from holiday (it's a slow New Year's morning here, so I'm taking the opportunity to do this). Many happy returns

*bows* I do what I can in the service of the cause. Thank you, and Happy New Year to you as well!

[ForestFern]

Sparkies, I wish you a Happy New Year! and I wish me to enjoy season 6 as soon as you'll be able put it together!

I'm absolutely impressed by your work and it sure looks you're on the right track. Can't wait to see the final product

Cheers for an excellent 2011!

[TheLadyMore]

Happy New Year Guys. Though I found SGA one year too late I am glad I have you guys to keep the spirit alive as the love sparky. I am glad my travels this year lead me to you all, I have ,any laughs here. Happy new year and may your dreams come true

[gateraid]

That'll depend on what happens in Season 7. And don't forget, we'll have Elizabeth back by then, too.



There's that, too. Don't'cha just love politics?



You mean Xiaoyi Shen? That's certainly a possibility. We'll have to see what comes out of "Seizure," though.

Unless they explicity state that Woolsey is not still running Atlantis, it'd be easier to just leave him there. After all, he is the IOA's pick, so they wouldn't replace him unless they either transferred him or fired him. He could simply be doing some freelancing for the SGC with the Jonas Quinn planet (can you tell I don't remember the name??)

Last night, Eri and I were discussing via email the issue of what Elizabeth may have known and when she knew it with regards to Destiny. Eri suggested the idea of tying in the discovery of the nine chevron address to when Daniel was in Atlantis for SG-1's "The Pegasus Project." I think it's a good call, it fits into the timeline well and certainly allows for Elizabeth to be aware of at least the broader details prior to her capture on Asuras.

If you're going back as far as TPP, then it's plausible that Weir would at least be privy to the nine chevron address info, but perhaps not the Icarus Project (again, it's debatable, so you can go whichever way you want). But if you want some wiggle room, you could always say the Asurans found out (if they need to) either through the Ancient database when they were there, their own copy of the Atlantis database, or their probe of O'Neill's mind during Return II.

As far as the Asurans not actually doing anything about Destiny themselves, well, wiping out the Wraith and the humans seemed to be numbers one and two on their list of priorities. Destiny was probably far, far lower on the list.

You may be able to incorporate either Langara(?) or the Icarus planet into an Asuran evil empire plan (presumably they need naquadah/naquadriah). But that takes the action away from the PG.

You know, that's something else I've considered. One would assume that the IOA would be all hot to keep their shiny new toy on Earth, but it's possible that the Lucian Alliance could be gunning for Earth specifically to go after Atlantis. Apparently, the plans for the attack on Earth were set before the LA tried to take over Destiny, as at least two of the LA strike team survivors knew of the attack (Ginn, and Simeon, the guy who killed her and then was killed by Rush). The LA may simply be looking to eliminate Earth as a rival, but especially now that their attempt to take Destiny has been thwarted, they could be looking at grabbing Atlantis as an alternate prize. I can see some in the IOA/Homeworld Command lobbying to send Atlantis away from Earth to keep it from falling into the hands of the LA.

And leaving a ZPM at the Antarctic Outpost, along with a fresh supply of drones, would do a similar job of protecting Earth. That is, so long as just the building housing the chair in Area 51 was destroyed, rather than the chair itself

The Furlings? *dies laughing*

I jest, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

Hmm, the message being just another of Destiny's tests, this time for Rush? That's a truly diabolical idea.

It'd never happen, but it's possible

I can see the possibility of Destiny being on a need-to-know basis; after all, there was no info in the database about what was on Asuras, either.

Worked out really well for them, didn't it? What with the galactic holocaust and everything? *sigh* They could have just left an encrypted file that McKay couldn't open until it was too late, but no, delete it all

Now that's an interesting question? It's possible that the discovery wasn't made until after the split from the Ori, which would explain why they didn't know about it.

I think we weren't supposed to think about it, coz wouldn't the Ori (being ascended beings) find out about it in the afterlife anyway?

I think any combination of these is possible; certainly, with more science teams undoubtedly swarming over the city and presumably less of a need for a military presence, it may very well be that both Woolsey and Sheppard are somewhat at loose ends at the moment.

The easiest is to still have Woolsey there. Otherwise there has to be a good reason why the IOA would fire him, only to replace him with another IOA delegate.

Yeah, I'm thinking a throwaway line is probably all we need. But it's a nifty little connection to make.

On that, perhaps sidestep it in that ep (Box of Dreams). It occured to me that it might be handy in the Weir breakdown ep. Isn't that the one where she taps into the city systems anyway? If you had a prototype of the programme (as in, it is in the database, but was not capable of being a city-wide system and has never been used) she could accidentally activate it at some point. The whole thing sounds a bit hinky anyway - if it runs in the background, who is to say that anything people see is real? You could come up with a tech reason as to why Weir was the only one it affected - maybe because she was 'in' the computer.

Another good question. I certainly want to dig more into ATA and what gene carriers experience when interfacing with the technology, so that's something to consider.

Perhaps it was just because of the Wraith, given that anyone can the the communication stones etc.

*bows* I do what I can in the service of the cause. Thank you, and Happy New Year to you as well!

I won't bore you with the details, but it isn't turning out that well so far, and it's only 15hrs into it

[Scary Kitty]

Unless they explicity state that Woolsey is not still running Atlantis, it'd be easier to just leave him there. After all, he is the IOA's pick, so they wouldn't replace him unless they either transferred him or fired him. He could simply be doing some freelancing for the SGC with the Jonas Quinn planet (can you tell I don't remember the name??)

Honestly, I think that's probably what's going to end up actually happening in the episode. Mainly because they don't have a lot of time to waste with lengthy explanations of what everyone's doing now.

If you're going back as far as TPP, then it's plausible that Weir would at least be privy to the nine chevron address info, but perhaps not the Icarus Project (again, it's debatable, so you can go whichever way you want). But if you want some wiggle room, you could always say the Asurans found out (if they need to) either through the Ancient database when they were there, their own copy of the Atlantis database, or their probe of O'Neill's mind during Return II.

Or maybe a combo.

You may be able to incorporate either Langara(?) or the Icarus planet into an Asuran evil empire plan (presumably they need naquadah/naquadriah). But that takes the action away from the PG.

And really, I don't see us going in that direction anyway, given how packed our plans for the Asurans already are.

And leaving a ZPM at the Antarctic Outpost, along with a fresh supply of drones, would do a similar job of protecting Earth. That is, so long as just the building housing the chair in Area 51 was destroyed, rather than the chair itself

Pretty sure the Earth chair is toast.

Worked out really well for them, didn't it? What with the galactic holocaust and everything? *sigh* They could have just left an encrypted file that McKay couldn't open until it was too late, but no, delete it all

*snickers*

I think we weren't supposed to think about it, coz wouldn't the Ori (being ascended beings) find out about it in the afterlife anyway?

That's kinda the idea, isn't it?

On that, perhaps sidestep it in that ep (Box of Dreams). It occured to me that it might be handy in the Weir breakdown ep. Isn't that the one where she taps into the city systems anyway? If you had a prototype of the programme (as in, it is in the database, but was not capable of being a city-wide system and has never been used) she could accidentally activate it at some point. The whole thing sounds a bit hinky anyway - if it runs in the background, who is to say that anything people see is real? You could come up with a tech reason as to why Weir was the only one it affected - maybe because she was 'in' the computer.

Hmm, that is a possibility...

Perhaps it was just because of the Wraith, given that anyone can the the communication stones etc.

No, the Ancients already had ATA before they went to Pegasus, which we know because they left the original Earth chair with all its ATA programming behind when they took Atlantis to Pegasus. The Wraith didn't evolve in Pegasus until after the Ancients showed up.

I won't bore you with the details, but it isn't turning out that well so far, and it's only 15hrs into it

Ack! *hugs*

[Scary Kitty]

It's now 2011 on the East Coast! Three more hours until midnight here in California, and people in my neighborhood are already shooting off firecrackers!

John and Elizabeth, no doubt, are already enjoying some fireworks of their own...

[TheLadyMore]

Happy 2011 Sparkyites

[Scary Kitty]

http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp342/Clumsyxheartx3/John%20Sheppard%20Thunkage/088.jpg

Happy 2011 Sparkyites

Eeeeeee! The Hug of SQUEEEEEE!!!!

Happy New Year!

[TheLadyMore]

Eeeeeee! The Hug of SQUEEEEEE!!!!

Happy New Year!

Happy new year to you too dear!

[gateraid]

Honestly, I think that's probably what's going to end up actually happening in the episode. Mainly because they don't have a lot of time to waste with lengthy explanations of what everyone's doing now.

Agreed. I bet they don't even mention it, which is why Picardo gave a vague answer at the con.

And really, I don't see us going in that direction anyway, given how packed our plans for the Asurans already are.

Precisely. Those crossovers are only necessary when TPTB are really desperate *whistles innocently*

Pretty sure the Earth chair is toast.

Pity. It would've been an obvious 'out'.

That's kinda the idea, isn't it?

I sure hope so, unless the Ancients actually wanted the Wraith to commit galactic genocide.

Hmm, that is a possibility...

I don't know how far along things are, or even if I'm thinking of the correct ep, but it may be too late for that now anyway. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

No, the Ancients already had ATA before they went to Pegasus, which we know because they left the original Earth chair with all its ATA programming behind when they took Atlantis to Pegasus. The Wraith didn't evolve in Pegasus until after the Ancients showed up.

Right you are again. That makes me wonder even more now. Although it is another side issue.

It'd be interesting to go through (don't do it, it'd take forever) all the SG-1 eps for all mentions of Ancients, and planets that they found Ancient tech on. I imagine the timeline would get uber!frakked! from all of that

[gateraid]

Sparkies, I wish you a Happy New Year! and I wish me to enjoy season 6 as soon as you'll be able put it together!

I'm absolutely impressed by your work and it sure looks you're on the right track. Can't wait to see the final product

Cheers for an excellent 2011!

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/a...rorasparky.jpg

I'd never noticed before that the two people closest to John are not holding his glass while he pours the champagne. Elizabeth is doing it. Caldwell is making sure that everyone gets an equal portion. McKay is wondering why Ronon is wearing a bracelet, and if the champagne contains any citrus. And I am wondering why, in yet another example that these are not real people/characters, nobody thought to pour the champagne while the glasses were on Elizabeth's desk.

[mandogater]

You mean Xiaoyi Shen? That's certainly a possibility. We'll have to see what comes out of "Seizure," though.

Yep. I just couldn't remember how to spell the characters name.