Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[KrisRussel]

I looked at the scene from Sunday on my HDTV with my nose nearly up against the screen, and I believe this is the most correct version of Sheppard's ribbons, in the correct order of precedence:

That boy has got a lot of medals for someone with a black mark that no one wanted to work with anymore. You'd think all those ribbons and medals would get him more respect, even with the black mark.

[Eri13]

kino:

Spoiler:

The SGU crew found them on the ship and they are a sort of flying camera with a remote control that Eli uses to film their experiences and that they use as MALP. It's especially using them as MALP that makes them a handy plot device.
Personally I have a fondness for the Kinos, but that could just be because Eli really likes them

Ah. Thanks.

Although--didn't we have the flying camera thing in "Phantoms" which Ronon shot down? The OAV or AOV or AUV or something like that?

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Definitely a good idea.

And some new info about the crossover has come out on JM's blog, as well as a couple of random facts we might find useful for AR:

Keeps us guessing, at any rate.

I can imagine planning for kinos on Atlantis might have been due to the existence of the space gates. That way the expedition wouldn't have had to keep wasting their MALPs; they just send a kino through, then have a jumper retrieve it. And we did discuss introducing a flying MALP for AR... of course, given that apparent timeline for Destiny's creation, Atlantis's kinos could be a lot different from the ones on Destiny. Just a thought.

That's my concern with having them both at the same rank for most of the season.

Unless McKay's line of, 'I guess that answers the question as to whether it was really Elizabeth.' was supposed to be intended as a doubtful note... after all, Mallozzi and Mullie apparently did disagree on whether or not the real Weir was still alive (Mallozzi wanted her alive, Mullie wanted her dead... something else I'm going to have to send Mallozzi some chocolate in gratitude for).

Was there ever a breakdown of his medals on GW? I think there may have been one on The Major forums...

And

Spoiler:

that author's justification for Sheppard not having the Antarctica Service Medal is totally bogus; according to the criteria for being awarded the medal, one must spend between 15 to 30 days stationed on the Antarctic continent (defined as south of 60 degrees latitude). The 15 day mark is used for flight crews flying missions into and out of the continent; each flight mission within a 24-hour period counts as one day. McMurdo is technically not on the continent itself but on an island in the Ross Sea, but it's at 77 degrees latitude. Slam dunk. Even if Sheppard wasn't there 11 months, he was still there more than 30 days and should have the medal.

The question of whether Elizabeth was alive was never really answered. Remember her clone mentions in TMC during the convo with John "at least I know I'm the only Elizabeth Weir out there". Of course, she wasn't. I think Rodney's line referring to Franibeth as really Elizabeth is true in this regard as well. But when you're dealing with consciousness you could have an Elizabeth say 100 times "I'm the only one" and have them truly think that, but it doesn't have to be the truth.

The way we're writing up the mid-season 2 parter and the rest of the story explains that every version of Elizabeth was going to think herself the 'real one' until told otherwise, because Oberoth wanted it that way. He was trying to discover what gave her the ability to override The Collective and avoid assimilation despite having replicators as a part of her. So he'd want his copies to believe they were the real thing.

For our purposes, the "Primus" they find IS the real Elizabeth, but if you wanted to argue it, you could say it's questionable. We're going to try and prove it beyond doubt by establishing stuff like her body composition's the exact same as in Lifeline, her ability to connect and remember all other versions of herself, etc, make her 99.99% probable as the real one, but this IS Sci-Fi, and she has been out of our line of sight for a while, so there will always be that .01% possibility that she's not the real one, either, just a very, very, very detailed copy. For our purpose's she's not, but for the sake of argument, she could be, because as writers we can't come out and say "we interrupt this story for the important announcement to all the readers that this IS the real Elizabeth!".

[Fionnait]

kino:

Spoiler:

Uhm, "Kino" is the German word for cinema.

*hugs Probie*

[Southern Red]

Just think of it this way; the idea was originally supposed to be used in Atlantis, so technically, SGU stole it.



Found it! I was right, it was at The Major forums; since that time, something went screwy with the old forums, so the link actually goes to an archived version, and some of the pictures may not be working. They actually discuss both Sheppard's and Mitchell's ribbons in this thread. Ignore the first version of John's ribbons in the first post, there's a corrected version on Page 3 (though note that everything is listed in the incorrect order, just as it was on John's uniform).

I looked at the scene from Sunday on my HDTV with my nose nearly up against the screen, and I believe this is the most correct version of Sheppard's ribbons, in the correct order of precedence:

First Row
- Distinguished Flying Cross x2 (1 bronze oak leaf)
- Meritorious Service Medal x3 (2 bronze oak leaves)

Second Row
- Air Medal x5 (silver oak leaf)
- Aerial Achievement Medal x5 (silver oak leaf)
- Air Force Commendation Medal x4 (3 bronze oak leaves)

Third Row
- Air Force Achievement Medal x2 (1 bronze oak leaf)
- Air Force Outstanding Unit Award
- Combat Readiness Medal

Fourth Row
- National Defense Service Medal x2 (1 bronze star)
- Afghanistan Campaign Medal
- Global War on Terror Service Medal

Fifth Row
- Air Force Overseas Short Tour
- Longevity Service Award x4 (3 bronze oak leaves)
- Air Force Training Ribbon

Note that the Antarctica Service Medal should come between the National Defense Service and Afghanistan Campaign Medals, meaning the National Defense Service Medal would be moved up to the third row, and everything else from the third row up would be moved up a slot with the first row ending up with the Distinguished Flying Cross, Meritorious Service Medal and Air Medal, so that each row has three medals.



Yeah. It's a plot device, but it's admittedly a logical necessity, which is why I'm for it.

That boy has got a lot of medals for someone with a black mark that no one wanted to work with anymore. You'd think all those ribbons and medals would get him more respect, even with the black mark.

Oh thank you. I made a stickie for this in case we need it.

[VampyreWraith]

As long as the kino was a MALP and nobody used it to spy on people in the shower, I guess I'd be okay with it. But I don't want us to look like we're stealing ideas from SGU.

I know somebody did a breakdown of the medals but I didn't bookmark it.

Lol to the spying with kinos, i dont want to see that on Atlantis either. i have it bookmarked on my other laptop i think, If i can get my son off of it so i can go on I'll post it here.


Add: Yay for finding the link, saved me the trouble of trying to kick my son off the computer LOL

[Probie]

Uhm, "Kino" is the German word for cinema.

*hugs Probie*

Hug the old man. I think I scared him.lol
I'm never angry. Ok sometimes yes but I'm a very calm person in general. I prefer to stop talking when something is bothering me because I don't want to be rude but here......I couldn't stop.lol

[Anuna]

Uhm, "Kino" is the German word for cinema.

*hugs Probie*

Croatian too, only the accent when pronouncing is different.

[Southern Red]

Hug the old man. I think I scared him.lol
I'm never angry. Ok sometimes yes but I'm a very calm person in general. I prefer to stop talking when something is bothering me because I don't want to be rude but here......I couldn't stop.lol

Are you sure you're not a redhead? Poor old guy probably swallowed his false teeth.

[Scary Kitty]

That boy has got a lot of medals for someone with a black mark that no one wanted to work with anymore. You'd think all those ribbons and medals would get him more respect, even with the black mark.

Yeah, one would think...

Ah. Thanks.

Although--didn't we have the flying camera thing in "Phantoms" which Ronon shot down? The OAV or AOV or AUV or something like that?

I think the one from Phantoms was the same type of drone surveillance vehicles currently used by the U.S. military.

The question of whether Elizabeth was alive was never really answered. Remember her clone mentions in TMC during the convo with John "at least I know I'm the only Elizabeth Weir out there". Of course, she wasn't. I think Rodney's line referring to Franibeth as really Elizabeth is true in this regard as well. But when you're dealing with consciousness you could have an Elizabeth say 100 times "I'm the only one" and have them truly think that, but it doesn't have to be the truth.

Indeed, that's what I meant. FRANibeth was the real one... as far as they know. But they could easily be wrong.

The way we're writing up the mid-season 2 parter and the rest of the story explains that every version of Elizabeth was going to think herself the 'real one' until told otherwise, because Oberoth wanted it that way. He was trying to discover what gave her the ability to override The Collective and avoid assimilation despite having replicators as a part of her. So he'd want his copies to believe they were the real thing.

For our purposes, the "Primus" they find IS the real Elizabeth, but if you wanted to argue it, you could say it's questionable. We're going to try and prove it beyond doubt by establishing stuff like her body composition's the exact same as in Lifeline, her ability to connect and remember all other versions of herself, etc, make her 99.99% probable as the real one, but this IS Sci-Fi, and she has been out of our line of sight for a while, so there will always be that .01% possibility that she's not the real one, either, just a very, very, very detailed copy. For our purpose's she's not, but for the sake of argument, she could be, because as writers we can't come out and say "we interrupt this story for the important announcement to all the readers that this IS the real Elizabeth!".

Besides, that's what the DVD commentary is for.

Oh thank you. I made a stickie for this in case we need it.

*salutes*

[Anuna]

Ooo, I really like this. I love stuff where it starts out innocuous and then you realize it's really a nasty situation. And flashbacks are a cool way to tell out that story.

Thank you! The more I think about this, the more I'm certain this episode won't be very plot - heavy. The plot itself is simplistic, which allows me to emphasize what John feels, fears etc. And non - linear telling is just right for this, because I keep jumping between past and present and that will allow me to keep the readers on their toes.

[Probie]

Are you sure you're not a redhead? Poor old guy probably swallowed his false teeth.

I spent a bad day but he almost killed two persons on the road because he's blind.lol

[VampyreWraith]

Thank you! The more I think about this, the more I'm certain this episode won't be very plot - heavy. The plot itself is simplistic, which allows me to emphasize what John feels, fears etc. And non - linear telling is just right for this, because I keep jumping between past and present and that will allow me to keep the readers on their toes.

I love reading/seeing epidodes that jump back and forth in time. I usually find them really interesting.

[Anuna]

I love reading/seeing epidodes that jump back and forth in time. I usually find them really interesting.

Yup! I liked the back and forth jumping in 38 minutes.

[VampyreWraith]

Hug the old man. I think I scared him.lol
I'm never angry. Ok sometimes yes but I'm a very calm person in general. I prefer to stop talking when something is bothering me because I don't want to be rude but here......I couldn't stop.lol

LOl thats like me, im usually very calm, and prefer to end a discussion when i start to get frustrated; but sometimes...... lol.

[VampyreWraith]

Yup! I liked the back and forth jumping in 38 minutes.

Yeah that one was good and i even liked it in tabula rasa. It usually keeps things vague until all the peices come together in the present, and i like that.