Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Add me with the thunder and lighting, and lots of rain (though me likes it, the rain not the light and sound) ... and hot, hot, hot weather.

[Probie]

Add me with the thunder and lighting, and lots of rain (though me likes it, the rain not the light and sound) ... and hot, hot, hot weather.

In germany is the same thing. Do you realize we are talking about weather and two days ago someone on this thread was laughing because in other threads, they do the same thing.lol

[Anuna]

*offers hugs*

I'll be posting a fic very soon, I just need to edit few things. It's quite steamy... like the weather right now. Sit tight

[Eri13]

Okay, I have something Stargate-y. I'm putting together that continuity timeline and I'd love some different opinions on what you saw happen to various characters in the story.

So write out your thoughts on character shifts/personality changes/major character developments for any of these guys: Elizabeth, John, McKay, Teyla and Ronon. And then tell me where those shifts happened. I'll add your stuff to my list if I haven't already listed it.

I'm particularly interested in Rodney, because as I went through 4 and 5 I found that he was pretty much a stagnant character and there was very, VERY little that he did, despite having a lot of screen time. I mean, even the Shrine was basically rehashing what we went through with Tao of Rodney, other than the McKeller stuff. Anything you can think of development-wise?

[Anuna]

Okay, I have something Stargate-y. I'm putting together that continuity timeline and I'd love some different opinions on what you saw happen to various characters in the story.

So write out your thoughts on character shifts/personality changes/major character developments for any of these guys: Elizabeth, John, McKay, Teyla and Ronon. And then tell me where those shifts happened. I'll add your stuff to my list if I haven't already listed it.

I'm particularly interested in Rodney, because as I went through 4 and 5 I found that he was pretty much a stagnant character and there was very, VERY little that he did, despite having a lot of screen time. I mean, even the Shrine was basically rehashing what we went through with Tao of Rodney, other than the McKeller stuff. Anything you can think of development-wise?

Hm. I could map out the timeline for John, or perhaps Teyla. I find her development very inetersting, so that's something I'd gladly do.

On Rodney... uh, I guess you're right. When I think more about him, I can't really say he changed that much. He was the arrogant, super smart scientist who lacked social skills, but had a good heart underneath his cranky exterior in the beginning. I guess we got to know him better over the span of five years, we got to see his other aspects, not just the ranty genius who thinks he's God's gift to science, Universe, women ... you get the point. *G* I think his change is subtle, and it occurs somewhere during S2, definitely after the Siege trilogy, as we see Rodney becoming more attached to people around him. During the years he learned to show his concern and care better, but all of these shifts were subtle, and not very dramatic, IMO. Tao is a great example, and like yous aid, The Shrine is more like a rehash. I guess teyla got more actual development than Rodney, who had tons more screentime.

[Fionnait]

So write out your thoughts on character shifts/personality changes/major character developments for any of these guys: Elizabeth, John, McKay, Teyla and Ronon. And then tell me where those shifts happened. I'll add your stuff to my list if I haven't already listed it.

I've thought about Elizabeth's character development and am really disappointed now... I'd never properly thought about it, but she is very much the same person in the end, as she was when she was first introduced. Except maybe for being more ready to use military means in the end. Although, think of First Strike, maybe not. So, apart from developing a bit more confidence, everything that's happened to them in Pegasus does not seem to have much of an impression on her. Fail.

[Southern Red]

Okay, I have something Stargate-y. I'm putting together that continuity timeline and I'd love some different opinions on what you saw happen to various characters in the story.

So write out your thoughts on character shifts/personality changes/major character developments for any of these guys: Elizabeth, John, McKay, Teyla and Ronon. And then tell me where those shifts happened. I'll add your stuff to my list if I haven't already listed it.

I'm particularly interested in Rodney, because as I went through 4 and 5 I found that he was pretty much a stagnant character and there was very, VERY little that he did, despite having a lot of screen time. I mean, even the Shrine was basically rehashing what we went through with Tao of Rodney, other than the McKeller stuff. Anything you can think of development-wise?

I hadn't thought much about it but I think you're right about Rodney. He just never seemed to change unless you count getting mushy over Keller. He would take a step forward and get sensitive or be nice to his friends like in TOR when he healed Ronon's scars and had the tea ceremony for Teyla (another sign of a very well-ordered society BTW) and then he'd turn right around and snark at Zelenka and make fun of Ronon.

John's big change started at the end of FS before the accident when he had the big split with Elizabeth. He was very hurt by her being in total disagreement and I think if he'd had time he would have thought about how totally in agreement they had been for ages and how she surprised him by not taking his side. Then of course with what happened to her his whole world totally fell apart and he was never the same again.

Teyla changed when she became a mom and before that when she was so desperate to get her people back. Even though she had been fighting with the team all those years to help keep her people safe she hadn't had much personal angst until Kanaan went missing and she thought about raising her child alone. She may have had the first little change in the way she thought with the events in Sateda also. Once John convinced her that she and Ronon were family she may have started to relax a little. Then the big mess with Michael in S4 and after just made her feel like she must never let her guard down again. She became first a little harder and then softer with the baby but then when he was in danger the fierce mama bear came out.

Ronon went through stages when he was smart and thought things through a little but then like in DV they always reverted him to caveman. It was frustrating. I guess you could say between Sunday when he said he wasn't ready to date again and the end when he was interested in first Keller and then Banks may show his emotional wounds were healing but they didn't do a good job of showing how he changed. He learned to trust people, first John and the rest of the team and then Elizabeth whom he seemed to have a great deal of affection for.

Elizabeth started out mistrusting the military and grew to rely on John to help her run the city. She also seemed to value Jack's opinion and worked well with Lorne but I think in all cases it was more personal than a change of heart in general. She still didn't trust Caldwell and the other military guys. Otherwise I don't see any big changes because she had her head on straight to start with and was pretty consistent.

[Probie]

I've thought about Elizabeth's character development and am really disappointed now... I'd never properly thought about it, but she is very much the same person in the end, as she was when she was first introduced. Except maybe for being more ready to use military means in the end. Although, think of First Strike, maybe not. So, apart from developing a bit more confidence, everything that's happened to them in Pegasus does not seem to have much of an impression on her. Fail.

I'm like you.I have a problem but with all the characters.lol

[Fionnait]

Oh, except for her brief OOC times, where she was a hindrance for the plot and instead of coming up with a valid reason why something would happen TPTW just ignored everything that we previously knew about her in order to go through with whatever they had in mind.

[Eri13]

Hm. I could map out the timeline for John, or perhaps Teyla. I find her development very inetersting, so that's something I'd gladly do.

On Rodney... uh, I guess you're right. When I think more about him, I can't really say he changed that much. He was the arrogant, super smart scientist who lacked social skills, but had a good heart underneath his cranky exterior in the beginning. I guess we got to know him better over the span of five years, we got to see his other aspects, not just the ranty genius who thinks he's God's gift to science, Universe, women ... you get the point. *G* I think his change is subtle, and it occurs somewhere during S2, definitely after the Siege trilogy, as we see Rodney becoming more attached to people around him. During the years he learned to show his concern and care better, but all of these shifts were subtle, and not very dramatic, IMO. Tao is a great example, and like yous aid, The Shrine is more like a rehash. I guess teyla got more actual development than Rodney, who had tons more screentime.

I've thought about Elizabeth's character development and am really disappointed now... I'd never properly thought about it, but she is very much the same person in the end, as she was when she was first introduced. Except maybe for being more ready to use military means in the end. Although, think of First Strike, maybe not. So, apart from developing a bit more confidence, everything that's happened to them in Pegasus does not seem to have much of an impression on her. Fail.

Now here's what's weird, and I think Falcon may be able to help with this. Evolution doesn't always line up with their role in the story. Take McKay, who has the most screen time, but poor development--much less than Teyla.

The character who has the most is John (and you're welcome to do John as well, Anuna, but he's the only one I didn't really need help with--that boy is nicely fleshed out--or maybe I just paid more attention because it was John. )

You picked the right season for McKay, because he has the most 'bulletpoints' of stuff in Season 1/Season 2 than anywhere else (though his biggest moment comes during Season 3's TOR.

Fionnait, you're right, Elizabeth is a static character, but it's an interesting stagnation. More like an onion peeling back than developmental character evolution. We don't know much about Elizabeth in Season 1, but we find out an awful lot about her by the time we get to Season 5, which prevents her from being flat. As far as 'progressive' development she doesn't have much--her character doesn't evolve--but in terms of who she is and how she reacts, she's one of the best in the story. A LOT of depth.

[Probie]

Thunderstorms are back. Without electricity, maybe I can think about it. I will ask my mom.lol
See you soon

[Anuna]

Well, this show was never big on continuity or character development. Face it, you don't watch SGA for great writing. We watch it because ... well. That's another discussion topic.

On John, I wanted to add that he went through two big cahnges, IMO - I think JF described it well to Martin Firell, he came as a solo guy, and had to learn how to be a team player. That included trusting Elizabeth and respecting her authority, and also being less impulsive. I think he found his ground and his place during S2 and was content, if not happy in S3. Then came S4 and all of that went downhill, because he lost Elizabeth.

[Fionnait]

Fionnait, you're right, Elizabeth is a static character, but it's an interesting stagnation. More like an onion peeling back than developmental character evolution. We don't know much about Elizabeth in Season 1, but we find out an awful lot about her by the time we get to Season 5, which prevents her from being flat. As far as 'progressive' development she doesn't have much--her character doesn't evolve--but in terms of who she is and how she reacts, she's one of the best in the story. A LOT of depth.

Agreed, she is an interesting character, but Pegasus has got to make you change somehow.

[Falcon Horus]

You know I can give you an episode by episode count if you wish...

[Anuna]

@ Eri - I agree with your view of Elizabeth. We learn just how complex she is, and what her motivations are, and how they shift, depending on the circumstances. An actress less skilled than Torri wouldn't be able to pull that off, IMO.

And about John - who could possibly blame you for paying attention?