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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by Anuna View Post
    And just how much younger is Rachel? I don't think she is much younger than Torri, so the old argument is completely worthless IMO.
    I'm guessing Rachel is about the same age as Claire, which makes her about 38 years old. I think I read in an interview once how Rachel's father took her to see the first Star Wars film when was seven or so. *shrug* So, late thirties... while Torri is at an early forties. Still makes them close to each other's age.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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      But it's not a problem of age. I mean the most important is the chemistry. Is there a chemistry? Yes? no? Definively yes but now you can call it friendship or love. And it's funny that some people have a problem with the age of Elizabeth and the hypothetical difference between John and be also a fan of Sam/Jack. Hello!!! Here we can talk about age. But I don't think it's a problem.
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        Originally posted by Probie View Post
        Do you think it's the moment to go on this thread with my new sig "Teyla/Kanaan" and say "No because I'm a happy Teylaan fan"?lol
        Doooo iiiitttt!


        Originally posted by Anuna View Post
        Isn't there a more polite substitution? LOL.

        I don't mind people having different views than mine, regarding ship (although sometimes I disagree and sometimes I disagree very strongly, and that is my right). But what I do oppose to is when people state point blank that my opinion is wrong and their opinion is the only right opinion out there and that I am delusional or anything else along those lines.

        Which is why I find fics that portray Elizabeth as old, boring and unattractive pretty ridiculous. Old, boring and unattractive? On old, how come John isn't old? They're about the same age, according to casting materials. Joe F is actually older than Torri. How can then Elizabeth be too old? And just how much younger is Rachel? I don't think she is much younger than Torri, so the old argument is completely worthless IMO.

        Boring and unattractive is something I don't get either. In the show we all watched (did we?) neither of main characters ever said or referred to Elizabeth with such unflattering traits. on the contrary, everyone liked her well, except for Kavanaugh, but he was an a$$hole anyway, so he doesn't really count. John, in particular, seemed fond of Elizabeth.

        Then, when I run into a fic where the author portrays Elizabeth as some sort of evil monarch, or degrades her so much in John's eyes, only to make her ship work, I call it crap, and I think that same author is probably bothered by the tons of on screen chemistry John and Elizabeth share and just has to address it, in the manner of completely ruining it.

        I guess deNial isn't only a river in Egypt.
        I could not have said this better. My opinion exactly. Even if I really believe that John and Elizabeth were sekritly married for the whole time, I have a right to say so. Can't prove it in canon? No, but what part of it's my opinion don't you understand? Opinions don't need to have facts behind them.

        Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
        I think I like ships when they're subtle and when chemistry is apparent between characters - whether that's because the actors play around with it, or because something of their real life friendships leaks into their characters, I don't know.

        For example I'm a total Daniel/Janet-lover. I adored that ship beyond anything else. Michael and Teryl played around with it, adding little hints here and there as they became aware of fan's responses to Daniel and Janet's friendship (and more to the point possibility of more).

        I don't go into a show for shipping - that just sorta happens to me as it goes. That's not what I watch for.
        Hell, I'm the person tolerating Kahlan and Richard on Legend of the Seeker, because apparently it's canon. Damn you, Goodkind! *shakes fist* Seriously, Cara and Kahlan have oodles more chemistry than Richard and Kahlan. <- IMHO of course

        I don't like being spoonfed a pairing either - unless it's done really well and PTB of the show know what they are doing, and know where they are going with it.

        I don't know why I'm on the Sparky-side - but I like it here, that's for sure. In all my forum-days (and fandom days too) I have rarely met a bunch as tolerant (most of the time anyway - there have been moments, not everyone is perfect) as the Sparky-gang.

        I like Elizabeth Weir, and I like John Sheppard. I like their friendship and what could have been (and will be once we're doing our season 6, and 7 too hopefully).

        I like Teyla too of course - *points at self* Teyla-fan here - but I just see nothing of the sort of chemistry that Elizabeth and John have. Actually I do see that same sort of chemistry but I see it between Teyla and Kate. And they do in 5 episodes what John and Elizabeth get to do in three or four seasons (depends how you look at it). I call that flash-dating...

        But anyway, that's just me... ... the silly little lemming who loves to kick on Heightmeyer's shoulder.
        Chemistry is a funny thing. I've seen married couples on screen with no romantic chemistry. And look at David and Jewel. They are real life friends who have said they felt uncomfortable being shipped. Sometimes friendship can interfere with chemistry. I do know that Rachel has said that David and Jason are like brothers and that Joe is a good friend. So take whatever you will from that. It seems like faking romantic interest would have been easier but the camera just does something to you I guess. I've never heard it said that Joe and Torri were more than work friends so maybe in a way that helped. *shrugs*

        I've always been one who happily goes along with the canon ship and am surprised when it doesn't work out. In a few cases, I like a certain couple that may or may not end up together and when they don't it makes me mad for a few seconds. *looks at In Plain Sight* But I have never felt about any show like I did this one or any ship like Sparky. Until I came online and found out different I thought this was the canon ship from the start. And as I've said many times, my son thought so too and even told me I was wrong when I told him about that other ship. Mr. SR even to this day after all the ranting I've done to him doesn't understand why there's any doubt that Sparky ended up canon. I would love to know what the majority of casual fans think.
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          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
          Doooo iiiitttt!
          I second that.

          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
          I would love to know what the majority of casual fans think.
          We need to find those casual fans and ask... except - I don't know where they are. When I say Stargate people look at me funny.
          Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

          Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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            Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
            Doooo iiiitttt!
            I can do it but I'm sure I will have problem after with the mods or with some fans. It's also a provocation and childish...Jeez I have a problem with "dare or not dare". I 'm so childish.lol

            And the last time I posted a message on a thread like this, I was totally ignore.
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              Ok I can't download the sig but maybe I can leave a post to prove my love for Kanaan.lol
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                Originally posted by Probie View Post
                I can do it but I'm sure I will have problem after with the mods or with some fans. It's also a provocation and childish...Jeez I have a problem with "dare or not dare". I 'm so childish.lol
                No, you're just going to state your opinion, and as it is you happen to not be disappointed that Teyla and John went nowhere because you happen to like Teyla and Kanaan. Killdeer already mentioned their relationship, and so did I.

                Don't be afraid to state your opinion. And they may try to ignore you but there are more people reading that thread than the usual suspects and there are people who will respond to your post in a respectful manner too.

                I'm not sure how long the respecting each other will go on for (and I'm sure a lot of "private" threads are buzzing with activity though I dare not lurk right now) but for now everybody's playing by the rules.

                Don't worry about being branded with the Sparky-stamp - it's already too late for that. I think all the major players know which side of the fence we all play.
                Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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                  Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                  No, you're just going to state your opinion, and as it is you happen to not be disappointed that Teyla and John went nowhere because you happen to like Teyla and Kanaan. Killdeer already mentioned their relationship, and so did I.

                  Don't be afraid to state your opinion. And they may try to ignore you but there are more people reading that thread than the usual suspects and there are people who will respond to your post in a respectful manner too.

                  I'm not sure how long the respecting each other will go on for (and I'm sure a lot of "private" threads are buzzing with activity though I dare not lurk right now) but for now everybody's playing by the rules.

                  Don't worry about being branded with the Sparky-stamp - it's already too late for that. I think all the major players know which side of the fence we all play.

                  Done
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                    Hello everyone, I've been browsing the thread and the Season 6 Atlantis Rising work sounds fantastic. So far, it sounds very well thought out and I like how you all trying to keep it in sync with canon.

                    I left a quick post on the other thread. I can understand how incredibly difficult and frustrating it is for the other shipper group. To be promised your ship at the beginning of the series and then have TPTW end their story on such a jarring note of finality with Teyla falling in love with another man, having his baby and marrying him, it's impossible to change or tweak that for one's own preferred pairing even in a scifi world short of thoroughly maligning the main characters. I truly believe it's a much worse than the way they ended Sparky. At least we had John mourning for Elizabeth and the incredibly insightful character study of John in Vegas. I stand by my conviction that Vegas supports Sparky in a big way by revealing the essence of the man who is John Sheppard. It's easy to bring back Elizabeth in a sci-fi universe. The only way to get around Kanaan and the baby is to make all of season 4 and 5 a dream or a vision of a parallel universe and rewrite those seasons.

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                      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                      Maybe, but in the past I've had to be out of the continental US. LOL This will be a test.
                      *cracks up* Hmm, I wonder if we should have an air raid drill this week. You know, just in case.

                      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                      Oh but they are mirroring which means they're in lurve. How did you miss that? I don't know why John's not afraid someone will get the wrong idea when he leans over Elizabeth's desk. I'm sure he just did it without thinking and was sorry later when she tried to pinch his ass sexually harass him.
                      *snorts* Well, if he was sorry later, he must've been really sorry after the way he grabbed her hand and led her back up to the control room after saving her from Kolya, or broke quarantine to grab her hand and get through the nanites, or carried her from the control room to the infirmary after she fainted because he was afraid he couldn't wait for a medical team. Yeah, he was real sorry after that...

                      NOT!

                      Originally posted by nephtys59 View Post
                      Spoiler:

                      http://lh5.ggpht.com/_o5ilIjkMTsc/TD...eGate_2836.jpg
                      J: You know, they all wanted to see me and you f#cking like bunnies the whole series.
                      T: Well I did ... with Kanaan.
                      J: Right.
                      T: And Rodney with Jennifer, Ronon with Amelia, Carson with ...
                      J: Ok, ok, there's no need to underline the fact that I'm left alone.
                      T: There's still Zelenka ...
                      J: Now, that's creepy!
                      T: Aren't you polyamorous?
                      J: I'm WHAT?


                      Sorry, couldn't resist
                      You are a bad, bad woman.

                      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                      Hey, you're forgetting facial expressions. I'm gonna pull Lie to me here and say Teyla is rolling her eyes at whatever he's saying which undoubtedly means she finds him terminally boring, maybe even arrogant. LOL.
                      After the way she got mad at him for not wanting to risk their fact-finding mission in Letters From Pegasus, and mad at him for taking her off active duty in BAMSR because he didn't want to risk her life and her baby's life... yeah, she sure must think he's arrogant.

                      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                      It must be really hard to deal with the fact that your ship never even got off the ground. I wouldn't be around today if Elizabeth had fallen in love with and gotten pregnant by another man. Especially if they had come out and stated that when the show began they were going to put her and John together. I feel really sorry for anyone who had their hopes dashed like that.

                      All any of us have is fanfic really. Oh wait....we have 3 years of eye sex and all those wonderful moments of John's grief that JF added for us against orders to stop making those faces. Maybe I should thank him for that in Chicago. *nods*
                      I agree with Anuna; you definitely should thank him for that!

                      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                      Yes I think you should!

                      I think we had more than we could ever hope for, especially considering the attitude of PTB about J/E. But the fact remains that the acotrs, mostly, have created this ship and that both JF and Torri have said supportive things about the ship
                      And if the actors like it, then, well...

                      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
                      Isn't there a more polite substitution? LOL.

                      I don't mind people having different views than mine, regarding ship (although sometimes I disagree and sometimes I disagree very strongly, and that is my right). But what I do oppose to is when people state point blank that my opinion is wrong and their opinion is the only right opinion out there and that I am delusional or anything else along those lines.

                      Which is why I find fics that portray Elizabeth as old, boring and unattractive pretty ridiculous. Old, boring and unattractive? On old, how come John isn't old? They're about the same age, according to casting materials. Joe F is actually older than Torri. How can then Elizabeth be too old? And just how much younger is Rachel? I don't think she is much younger than Torri, so the old argument is completely worthless IMO.

                      Boring and unattractive is something I don't get either. In the show we all watched (did we?) neither of main characters ever said or referred to Elizabeth with such unflattering traits. on the contrary, everyone liked her well, except for Kavanaugh, but he was an a$$hole anyway, so he doesn't really count. John, in particular, seemed fond of Elizabeth.

                      Then, when I run into a fic where the author portrays Elizabeth as some sort of evil monarch, or degrades her so much in John's eyes, only to make her ship work, I call it crap, and I think that same author is probably bothered by the tons of on screen chemistry John and Elizabeth share and just has to address it, in the manner of completely ruining it.

                      I guess deNial isn't only a river in Egypt.
                      And tying back into what you said earlier about the actors liking the ship, let's not forget how Joe was going on and on earlier this year about how sexy Torri is in real life, and how angry he is about how older actresses aren't given the respect they deserve.

                      A river in Egypt, indeed...

                      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                      Chemistry is a funny thing. I've seen married couples on screen with no romantic chemistry. And look at David and Jewel. They are real life friends who have said they felt uncomfortable being shipped. Sometimes friendship can interfere with chemistry. I do know that Rachel has said that David and Jason are like brothers and that Joe is a good friend. So take whatever you will from that. It seems like faking romantic interest would have been easier but the camera just does something to you I guess. I've never heard it said that Joe and Torri were more than work friends so maybe in a way that helped. *shrugs*
                      And I seem to recall that Joe had said at one point that he and Rachel had gotten to be such good friends behind the scenes that they were uncomfortable with scenes shipping their characters, just like David and Jewel were.

                      Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                      I've always been one who happily goes along with the canon ship and am surprised when it doesn't work out. In a few cases, I like a certain couple that may or may not end up together and when they don't it makes me mad for a few seconds. *looks at In Plain Sight* But I have never felt about any show like I did this one or any ship like Sparky. Until I came online and found out different I thought this was the canon ship from the start. And as I've said many times, my son thought so too and even told me I was wrong when I told him about that other ship. Mr. SR even to this day after all the ranting I've done to him doesn't understand why there's any doubt that Sparky ended up canon. I would love to know what the majority of casual fans think.
                      Damn, you and I must be like psychic siamese twins or something, because it's the same for me. I usually go for the canon couple. When I got into SGA, I wasn't plugged into the online fandom, so I didn't know about any of the stuff the producers were saying about how a certain two characters were going to be hinted at. I just saw what I saw on screen, and what I saw was a couple of early hints in the first couple of episodes, which were quickly dumped by The Eye in favor of John going Rambo and killing over sixty Genii to avenge Elizabeth when he thought she was dead, and then rescuing Elizabeth at the end. Forget an anvil, that was like dropping Mount Rushmore on my head! And boy, were they HOT!
                      (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                      Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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                        Hello and welcome back Flowerbud!!!!!
                        Very interesting what you said and it's sure we can understand why they are so sad or disappointed by ttheir ship but I want to say it's an american thing.lol Here we never knew that John and Teyla were supposed to be together.

                        I hope you will stay and participate.
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                          Warning: Evil lemming on the loose!

                          Everybody knows John is very much in love with Kate, and they're going to elope and have lots of babies.... and ... *looks around*...

                          Err... I meant to say.... John and Elizabeth are going to elope and have lots of babies together and will live happily ever after.



                          [insert evil yet fluffy laughter]

                          *is intercepted by owner*

                          [insert big innocent grin]
                          Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                          Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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                            Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                            Warning: Evil lemming on the loose!

                            Everybody knows John is very much in love with Kate, and they're going to elope and have lots of babies.... and ... *looks around*...

                            Err... I meant to say.... John and Elizabeth are going to elope and have lots of babies together and will live happily ever after.



                            [insert evil yet fluffy laughter]

                            *is intercepted by owner*

                            [insert big innocent grin]
                            Can Teyla and Kanaan join them? Not for the conception of babies.....*naughty mind* Yuk

                            Oh sorry, I wanted to say Teyla and Kate.....again it will be hard for babies...So I keep Kanaan.lol
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                              Originally posted by Probie View Post
                              Can Teyla and Kanaan join them? Not for the conception of babies.....*naughty mind* Yuk

                              Oh sorry, I wanted to say Teyla and Kate.....again it will be hard for babies...So I keep Kanaan.lol
                              LOL!!

                              Sure, the more the merrier... not babies...

                              And WOOHOO, the Dutch are winning - 17 minutes to go and it's 3-1 for them.
                              Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                              Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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                                Yep. Dutch plays only during the second period. Germany and Holland for finale...this will be interesting...if Germany will win tomorrow.
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