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**Falcon Horus** · 20 June 2010, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Was he? Ouch.

I'm not sure... It's been a while since that was mentioned. But to check if it is you'll have to find someone who owns the season on DVD and can check cause I don't have it.

**Probie** · 20 June 2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post

So Cooper is leaving... not going to be sad about that, not at all.

Spoiler:

Oh I forgot this one. I don't like this episode not just for Kate death (a stupid idea again but not the first and unfortunately not the last).
I can remember his big smile when he said it.

**Probie** · 20 June 2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post

I'm not sure... It's been a while since that was mentioned. But to check if it is you'll have to find someone who owns the season on DVD and can check cause I don't have it.

Yes he did with a smile on his face.

**Falcon Horus** · 20 June 2010, 07:32 AM

There you go... Probie confirms.

**Killdeer** · 20 June 2010, 09:05 AM

Oh ouch re: the Doppelganger thing.

I'm of mixed feelings re: RCC's departure.

Spoiler:

**Southern Red** · 20 June 2010, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Killdeer View Post

Oh ouch re: the Doppelganger thing.

I'm of mixed feelings re: RCC's departure.

Spoiler:

Yeah, that is a mixed bag isn't it. I also heard he's the one responsible for the whole "darker" look first of SGA and then SGU. Maybe we should do a pro/con chart. LOL

All I know is: he did Vegas. I love Vegas. Joe thought he got his character. Joe also liked the darker turn so everything he says I don't have to agree with. And RCC's ship preference was pretty obvious. *waves bye bye*

**Anuna** · 20 June 2010, 09:23 AM

Why am I not surprised about RCC news? I can't say I'm very sad either, I love Vegas dearly, but on the other hand, Kildeer and Falcon are making good points. good writer and absolutely wrong ship? LOL.

**Probie** · 20 June 2010, 10:26 AM

I have a problem with the word "dark" for those two seasons. Yes Joe played a darker John and there are some episodes very dark but some episodes of the first seasons where also dark.You all know my love for those seasons. Maybe it's for this that I can't see the dark aspect in general. I was too focus or disctract by the stupid inconstencies.

About Robert C Cooper. I already gave my opinion.
Again, the reactions on the french forum are more....how to say it....virulente. Many are happy to see him leave and hope Joe Mallozzi will follow him.lol

**Southern Red** · 20 June 2010, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Probie View Post

I have a problem with the word "dark" for those two seasons. Yes Joe played a darker John and there are some episodes very dark but some episodes of the first seasons where also dark.You all know my love for those seasons. Maybe it's for this that I can't see the dark aspect in general. I was too focus or disctract by the stupid inconstencies.

About Robert C Cooper. I already gave my opinion.
Again, the reactions on the french forum are more....how to say it....virulente. Many are happy to see him leave and hope Joe Mallozzi will follow him.lol

The French reaction is very interesting. I have mixed emotions about RCC. His eps were well done and well written but I didn't always like the subject. LOL

There was a lot of dark stuff in the first seasons like Sumner's death, Grodin's death, John's almost death and so on but there was always lightness and humor. In S4-5 the set was lit darker which was their choice on how to make us think the subject matter was darker. And then there was the change in John. It just seemed to be more adult I think rather than something you'd let the kiddies watch unsupervised. Personally, I like the lighter tone.

**Probie** · 20 June 2010, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

The French reaction is very interesting. I have mixed emotions about RCC. His eps were well done and well written but I didn't always like the subject. LOL

"Interesting" is not the word that I will choose but if TPTB can read french I think they will be in depression.lol

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

There was a lot of dark stuff in the first seasons like Sumner's death, Grodin's death, John's almost death and so on but there was always lightness and humor. In S4-5 the set was lit darker which was their choice on how to make us think the subject matter was darker. And then there was the change in John. It just seemed to be more adult I think rather than something you'd let the kiddies watch unsupervised. Personally, I like the lighter tone.

Exactly.

I won't say the character are not mature now. It's normal after 5 years but I can't qualify those seasons like dark. The whole show is light.
A dark show for me it's when something has an impact on the characters in a long time and that we can see an evolution (mental change). This needs a sort of continuity. I'm reading myself and I see that I'm not clear.lol
Let me take a example: Ford death. It's dramatic but it's not dark. It's dark when we can see an impact on the others characters....but after one episode, Ford was forgotten. Continuity makes something dark. Jeez I'm not clear again. I need a translator.lol

**Southern Red** · 20 June 2010, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Probie View Post

"Interesting" is not the word that I will choose but if TPTB can read french I think they will be in depression.lol

Exactly.

I won't say the character are not mature now. It's normal after 5 years but I can't qualify those seasons like dark. The whole show is light.
A dark show for me it's when something has an impact on the characters in a long time and that we can see an evolution (mental change). This needs a sort of continuity. I'm reading myself and I see that I'm not clear.lol
Let me take a example: Ford death. It's dramatic but it's not dark. It's dark when we can see an impact on the others characters....but after one episode, Ford was forgotten. Continuity makes something dark. Jeez I'm not clear again. I need a translator.lol

Oh, you are very clear. And we never saw any character loss have an impact on anyone. For example, Peter Grodin was very close to Elizabeth. He was essentially her assistant. Why did we never hear her say how much she missed him or how Chuck was doing a good job but she still missed Peter? Then we had Rodney writing a book about Elizabeth yet after she was gone he's all excited about possibly getting her job and giving Sam flowers. I could go on and on. If it hadn't been for Joe's face acting we never would have seen anyone show any change at all after losing her or anyone else. I feel a rant coming on but it's all been said before and can be summed up by badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

**Scary Kitty** · 20 June 2010, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Probie View Post

Oh I forgot this one. I don't like this episode not just for Kate death (a stupid idea again but not the first and unfortunately not the last).
I can remember his big smile when he said it.

Grrr. How dare he smile at killing Kate!

Originally posted by Killdeer View Post

Oh ouch re: the Doppelganger thing.

I'm of mixed feelings re: RCC's departure.

Spoiler:

*nods* I feel much as all of you do. He did some great stuff with Vegas and Sheppard, with Ronon-centric episodes like Runner and Sateda, but the shipping cluelessness, cheering the pointless death of Kate (WTF?)... argh. It's a love-hate thing, much like with Mallozzi.

Originally posted by Probie View Post

I have a problem with the word "dark" for those two seasons. Yes Joe played a darker John and there are some episodes very dark but some episodes of the first seasons where also dark.You all know my love for those seasons. Maybe it's for this that I can't see the dark aspect in general. I was too focus or disctract by the stupid inconstencies.

About Robert C Cooper. I already gave my opinion.
Again, the reactions on the french forum are more....how to say it....virulente. Many are happy to see him leave and hope Joe Mallozzi will follow him.lol

Ironic that they're talking about Mallozzi being the next to go... apparently, he's been talking more lately about what he'd like to do when he leaves Stargate, and apparently he (and I think Mullie) has been working on a comic book story that's been getting some attention. So who knows? Mallozzi may indeed be the next to go, if he's lining up outside work...

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

The French reaction is very interesting. I have mixed emotions about RCC. His eps were well done and well written but I didn't always like the subject. LOL

There was a lot of dark stuff in the first seasons like Sumner's death, Grodin's death, John's almost death and so on but there was always lightness and humor. In S4-5 the set was lit darker which was their choice on how to make us think the subject matter was darker. And then there was the change in John. It just seemed to be more adult I think rather than something you'd let the kiddies watch unsupervised. Personally, I like the lighter tone.

I still think the lighting was ridiculous. I mean, it would've made more sense in Season 1 when they didn't even have a ZPM to power the city! Blech.

**Scary Kitty** · 20 June 2010, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

Oh, you are very clear. And we never saw any character loss have an impact on anyone. For example, Peter Grodin was very close to Elizabeth. He was essentially her assistant. Why did we never hear her say how much she missed him or how Chuck was doing a good job but she still missed Peter? Then we had Rodney writing a book about Elizabeth yet after she was gone he's all excited about possibly getting her job and giving Sam flowers. I could go on and on. If it hadn't been for Joe's face acting we never would have seen anyone show any change at all after losing her or anyone else. I feel a rant coming on but it's all been said before and can be summed up by badwritingbadwritingbadwriting.

Don't worry, we're going to do a better job. Heck, we already have done a better job and we're still just in the planning stage!

Thank goodness for Joe's mad acting skillz, it's the only thing that kept me sane in Seasons 4 and 5.

**Anuna** · 20 June 2010, 12:05 PM

BSG is dark. It's almost too dark to watch, so definitely not everyone's cup of tea, and as much as i enjoyed it, I'm glad it didn't go beyond four seasons. SGA doesn't even come close to that kind of feeling when you watch, and perhaps, the darkest aspect of SGA is John and his change over the last two seasons - he lost his boyishness, his cheerfulness, we saw him in a different light, different circumstances, and we see him do things we didn't expect from John in s1 - s3. Just think 'Miller's crossing' and whet he did there. Although I always saw a potential for ruthlessness in him, that episode was definitely a jaw dropping moment for me. And I think Eri made a great point on her LJ when she mentioned that Vegas John isn't that much different than our John. The only really significant difference is Atlantis, and everything Atlantis stands for, for our John - the duty, home, friendships, a mission that's greater than him, and in turn he is a better man for it - everything that makes our John a hero can be summed up with 'Atlantis'.

Anyway, i don't want to lose my point - the darkest aspect of new and not improved SGA is John, because of the way JF chose to play him, and because of few other things, including moments like 'Miller's Crossing', or his initial reaction to Teyla's pregnancy; but I think the way JF played him is the main and biggest reason. Sometimes the episodes were 'light', and there were funny moemnts, but JF always kept the sadder, darker undertones.

**Southern Red** · 20 June 2010, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Anuna View Post

BSG is dark. It's almost too dark to watch, so definitely not everyone's cup of cake, and as much as i enjoyed it, I'm glad it didn't go beyond four seasons. SGA doesn't even come close to that kind of feeling when you watch, and perhaps, the darkest aspect of SGA is John and his change over the last two seasons - he lost his boyishness, his cheerfulness, we saw him in a different light, different circumstances, and we see him do things we didn't expect from John in s1 - s3. Just think 'Miller's crossing' and whet he did there. Although I always saw a potential for ruthlessness in him, that episode was definitely a jaw dropping moment for me. And I think Eri made a great point on her LJ when she mentioned that Vegas John isn't that much different than our John. The only really significant difference is Atlantis, and everything Atlantis stands for, for our John - the duty, home, friendships, a mission that's greater than him, and in turn he is a better man for it - everything that makes our John a her can be summed up with 'Atlantis'.

Anyway, i don't want to lose my point - the darkest aspect of new and not improved SGA is John, because of the way JF chose to play him, and because of few other things, including moments like 'Miller's Crossing', or his initial reaction to Teyla's pregnancy; but I think the way JF played him is the main and biggest reason. Sometimes the episodes were 'light', and there were funny moemnts, but JF always kept the sadder, darker undertones.

Yes he did. And he is certainly the only reason I stayed around to the end. Vegas was worth it for a number of reasons.

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