Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[VampyreWraith]

The miscarriage? It was just one of those actor things for motivation, it could just as easily have been frustration over being cooped up for so long



Yeah, but she was leading the mission. She needs to be able to observe what's going on. They ran into problems on SG-1 when they tried to make her do both - as in, she had to pull back from one role and delegate it to someone else (generally, telling Teal'C)

thats what i choose to believe happened in unending
but radek was just opening doors in a wraith facility nothing too complicated, true they didnt know what theyd enounter but still. if it was against replicators i can see having extra scientists along but having radek in a wraith facility when its something she couldve done easily bothered me.

[gateraid]

To get back to Sparky (sort of):

Spoiler:

Wait, wait, wait a second. Are these things even close to a transporter?


Yes. I need to get done quickly so I can start working on the subroutines, and Elizabeth was complaining about her knee the other day ...



You told McKay? I apologised for that. If you hadn't leaped on me like that I wouldn't have dropped you


Umm, I told him it was an old tennis injury
Oh. Heh. Sorry.

[VampyreWraith]

But at least it would've been in character. She'd been written in the past to be better than both John and Rodney. You wouldn't know it from watching SGA. The hallucination Carter from Grace Under Pressure was smarter than SGA Carter, Rodney even admitted that she was smarter than him then

True, and John deserved a good dressing down once in awhile especially towards the end of the season

[VampyreWraith]

To get back to Sparky (sort of):

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]26136[/ATTACH]
Wait, wait, wait a second. Are these things even close to a transporter?

[ATTACH]26137[/ATTACH]
Yes. I need to get done quickly so I can start working on the subroutines, and Elizabeth was complaining about her knee the other day ...


[ATTACH]26138[/ATTACH]
You told McKay? I apologised for that. If you hadn't leaped on me like that I wouldn't have dropped you

[ATTACH]26135[/ATTACH]
Umm, I told him it was an old tennis injury
Oh. Heh. Sorry.

Lol, i love these.

[Falcon Horus]

i liked her only when she wasnt with daniel.

She's the sole reason I started liking Daniel again so the more the was with him, the better for me.

[VampyreWraith]

She's the sole reason I started liking Daniel again so the more the was with him, the better for me.

A lot of people liked them together, just not me. I've always liked daniel, and i didnt mind his side of the interaction with vala, but she played up her side too much for my likeing. I liked her when she was more serious and less playful.

And from what i heard CB was the one who wanted her characters' sexuality toned down a bit, and wanted to play up her vunerability. thank goodness for that for me anyway lol.

[Scary Kitty]

To get back to Sparky (sort of):

Spoiler:

[ATTACH]26136[/ATTACH]
Wait, wait, wait a second. Are these things even close to a transporter?

[ATTACH]26137[/ATTACH]
Yes. I need to get done quickly so I can start working on the subroutines, and Elizabeth was complaining about her knee the other day ...


[ATTACH]26138[/ATTACH]
You told McKay? I apologised for that. If you hadn't leaped on me like that I wouldn't have dropped you

[ATTACH]26135[/ATTACH]
Umm, I told him it was an old tennis injury
Oh. Heh. Sorry.

Ahahahah! Reminds me of one of my favorite little funny Sparky stories... In the Line of Duty, by miera. John gets injured performing one of his "duties" and Elizabeth takes care of him. Yeah, you know this one's going straight to the gutter!

[Southern Red]

Hey guys, instead of the lazy sunday I was counting on, I just got back home after 10 of the most mindnumbing and hectic hours in years.
OT:

Spoiler:

Around 1230 someone rings our doorbell. Totally not normal for a sunday, so that was kinda strange. It's the police and they bring us the news that my father-in-law has died while riding his bike. My boyfriend was completely shook up and had to sit down. Then they tell us that we're the first to know and that my mother-in-law doesn't know anything yet because they know she has trouble with her heart and they'd like someone from her close family to be there when they break the news to her. So we follow the cops to the house and when she sees the two cops she falls apart as he was already overdue for almost two hours. She has trouble breathing and the cops call an ambulance, to be on the safe side. After a couple of minutes the ambulance people arrive and decide to take her to the hospital.
We followed the ambulance while Danny (my boyfriend) called his two brothers to break the news of his father and mother to them. Then we spent three hours in the ER, waiting by her bed until it was known what the hospital wanted to do with her. Luckily she's ok now and she'll prolly be allowed to return home in about two days.
So, after Danny's brothers arrive, we decide that we have to tell the rest of the close-knitted family what happened to their father, but that doing it by phone would be a bad idea, especially because some of his brothers and sisters are quite old and would need someone with them. So we've spend hours on end visiting Danny's relatives, breaking the news to them and trying to comfort them. It was absolutely exhausting, especially mentally and especially because we saw people breaking down every time we told them the news.
Sorry for telling all of this here, but I just needed to get it off my chest.

Now, does anyone have some fluffy sparky to cheer me up?

Oh sweetie, I am so sorry. I will keep you and your boyfriend's family in my prayers. I know from experience the next few days will be hard but you will get through it. ((hugs))

*hugs Kris* That is such an awful series of events for your family to have to go through. *more hugs*



*cracks up*



I don't know if Weir being civilian really had anything to do with it. I seem to recall an episode from earlier seasons where Hammond had been temporarily replaced by another military officer, SG-1 didn't like it, they pulled their usual shenanigans and, you guessed it, they got away with it.



Somehow, I doubt it. Besides, they supposedly had a 'handle' on writing Carter for SG-1; they had years of experience writing her, so it shouldn't have been that difficult for them to transition her to Atlantis, yet it was.



Which translated on screen to Carter looking like she wanted to just ignore the whole situation.



Well, that's a good memory to have of it! LOL!



True, dat.



That's the heart of the issue, right there. Just because she had taken command of Atlantis shouldn't have changed her so radically, yet for some reason, the writers decided to make her completely different. She might as well have been a completely different character.



Crappy is right! None of it ever seemed to make any sense, none of it fit in with what had been established in previous seasons or even in a previous episode from the same season. Really makes me wonder what the level of communication was between the writers, because based on the finished product, it looked like they weren't talking to each other at all. *headdesk*

Carter was a different character. She was Elizabeth Weir. Just close your eyes and listen to her lines. They are one and the same most of the time.

I think by the end the actors weren't the only ones out of the loop.

She felt like a different character. thats y i always make the distinction of sg1 sam and atlantis sam. I dont like what they did to sam in atlantis. While i was watching her , i was always like Sam would never say that, Sam would never do that, and i still dont get y radek had to go with them on the rescue mission in reunion. I also have issues on the way daniel was written in first contact and tlt, even though he and mckay were funny together.

The SG-1 characters never seemed right when written by the Atlantis writers. Which didn't make sense since they were largely the same people, but I think in the later years they lost the SG-1 touch.

Yes, they did do a terrible disservice. It was a cheap casting stunt and a total disaster that didn't accomplish anything of note except create a lot of hard feelings for actors and fans alike. It's like the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, it wasn't broken and it was doing just fine... until they tried to 'fix' it. *sighs*

And see where it got them. But they will never admit it.

lol



Agreed , I wouldnt have wanted her dressing down john, or trying to one up mckay, but they went to far.

I would love to have seen her dressing down John or anybody. Then at least she would have been leading and would have looked like a commander. This BS about her being "too nice" was just that...BS. They could have made it work. I know they didn't want their hero to look like he was mean to the girl, but they didn't seem to mind in S1 with John and Elizabeth.

[VampyreWraith]

Hey guys, instead of the lazy sunday I was counting on, I just got back home after 10 of the most mindnumbing and hectic hours in years.
OT:

Spoiler:

Around 1230 someone rings our doorbell. Totally not normal for a sunday, so that was kinda strange. It's the police and they bring us the news that my father-in-law has died while riding his bike. My boyfriend was completely shook up and had to sit down. Then they tell us that we're the first to know and that my mother-in-law doesn't know anything yet because they know she has trouble with her heart and they'd like someone from her close family to be there when they break the news to her. So we follow the cops to the house and when she sees the two cops she falls apart as he was already overdue for almost two hours. She has trouble breathing and the cops call an ambulance, to be on the safe side. After a couple of minutes the ambulance people arrive and decide to take her to the hospital.
We followed the ambulance while Danny (my boyfriend) called his two brothers to break the news of his father and mother to them. Then we spent three hours in the ER, waiting by her bed until it was known what the hospital wanted to do with her. Luckily she's ok now and she'll prolly be allowed to return home in about two days.
So, after Danny's brothers arrive, we decide that we have to tell the rest of the close-knitted family what happened to their father, but that doing it by phone would be a bad idea, especially because some of his brothers and sisters are quite old and would need someone with them. So we've spend hours on end visiting Danny's relatives, breaking the news to them and trying to comfort them. It was absolutely exhausting, especially mentally and especially because we saw people breaking down every time we told them the news.
Sorry for telling all of this here, but I just needed to get it off my chest.

Now, does anyone have some fluffy sparky to cheer me up?

I'm sorry to hear that.

[VampyreWraith]

The SG-1 characters never seemed right when written by the Atlantis writers. Which didn't make sense since they were largely the same people, but I think in the later years they lost the SG-1 touch.



And see where it got them. But they will never admit it.



I would love to have seen her dressing down John or anybody. Then at least she would have been leading and would have looked like a commander. This BS about her being "too nice" was just that...BS. They could have made it work. I know they didn't want their hero to look like he was mean to the girl, but they didn't seem to mind in S1 with John and Elizabeth.

Agreed, and with the dressing down thing i meant on a consistant basis and with the attitude caldwell had with sheppard in the beginning of season 2. I liked caldwell for it but it wouldnt have suited sam to come in all hard, especially not at first. i wouldve rubbed too many people the wrong way.(even more) But in the beginning of trio, john's sitting there sucking a lolli pop and hes like i didnt join the air force to negociate with locals, or something like that. I thought it was cute, but a bit too smart ass to say to a military superior, without getting some kind of comment in return. It wouldve felt different if it were elizabeth or even woolsey that he was talking to.

[Scary Kitty]

Carter was a different character. She was Elizabeth Weir. Just close your eyes and listen to her lines. They are one and the same most of the time.

I think by the end the actors weren't the only ones out of the loop.

*snorts* Loop? What loop?

The SG-1 characters never seemed right when written by the Atlantis writers. Which didn't make sense since they were largely the same people, but I think in the later years they lost the SG-1 touch.

I'd say they lost the touch, period.

And see where it got them. But they will never admit it.

No, none of them has the humility of Brannon Braga, that's for sure.

I would love to have seen her dressing down John or anybody. Then at least she would have been leading and would have looked like a commander. This BS about her being "too nice" was just that...BS. They could have made it work. I know they didn't want their hero to look like he was mean to the girl, but they didn't seem to mind in S1 with John and Elizabeth.

But of course, in Season 1 John and Elizabeth were supposed to be at odds and at each other's throats so that John could go crying to Teyla every night... *headdesk*

[gateraid]

Oh sweetie, I am so sorry. I will keep you and your boyfriend's family in my prayers. I know from experience the next few days will be hard but you will get through it. ((hugs))



Carter was a different character. She was Elizabeth Weir. Just close your eyes and listen to her lines. They are one and the same most of the time.

See below

The SG-1 characters never seemed right when written by the Atlantis writers. Which didn't make sense since they were largely the same people, but I think in the later years they lost the SG-1 touch.

ITA with that. But in the case of Carter at least, she'd been a bit inconsistent from s9 onwards, so I guess it was no great surprise for her.

I would love to have seen her dressing down John or anybody. Then at least she would have been leading and would have looked like a commander. This BS about her being "too nice" was just that...BS. They could have made it work. I know they didn't want their hero to look like he was mean to the girl, but they didn't seem to mind in S1 with John and Elizabeth.

Too nice isn't a reason not to do something. She wouldn't have made Colonel if she didn't have a backbone.


On the comparisons between Weir, Carter & Sheppard, here are some scenes I found that might be relevant:

Rising

Spoiler:

WEIR: And we're defenceless -- you said so yourself. How do you know going off on some half-assed rescue mission isn't gonna to bring them all right back here to our doorstep?

SHEPPARD: Maybe it will. But it's the right thing to do. Why? Because it is!

WEIR: John ...

SHEPPARD: If we're not gonna do this -- and I mean right now -- let's just turn tail and pack up, because they're coming.

WEIR: You don't know that.

SHEPPARD: Our people are in the hands of the enemy, Doctor. Do you know what that means? It is just a matter of time before the Wraith figure out that this is the base of our operations.

WEIR: I just need more information. I mean, who knows, maybe we could negotiate a peaceful ...

SHEPPARD: Peaceful? Are you kidding?! We weren't there for more than a few hours before they showed up.

WEIR: Is it possible they came because of you, and that one of these people you brought back here with you tipped them off?

SHEPPARD: It's possible.

WEIR: See, that is exactly the kind of snap decision I'm referring to!

SHEPPARD: They're not all bad people, and, you know, if we're gonna stick around here, we need friends.

WEIR: OK. I see your point. Now you see mine: I will not authorise a rescue mission unless I am sure there is at least a remote chance of success. I'm not sending more good people, including you, to their deaths.

vs the same scene in Reunion

Spoiler:

CARTER: I’m sorry, but it’s too dangerous.

SHEPPARD: It’s no more dangerous than the last time we went in.

CARTER: Circumstances were different, plus you had an advantage then that you don’t have now.

SHEPPARD: Well, she’s the one who gave us that advantage. The only reason we’re here is because of what she did.

CARTER: Believe me, I know, and I don’t like the idea of leaving someone behind any more than you do. But I am not about to send you or anyone else on a suicide mission. Now, you come to me with a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding and I’ll consider it. Short of that, John, I’m sorry. There’s nothing I can do.

SHEPPARD (reluctantly): Fair enough.


Not really much conviction from either party there

On Badass:


Sheppard (The Seige I)

Spoiler:

SHEPPARD: Yeah, but for how long? (He shoots it five more times. The Wraith falls to its knees.) I need to know what you've done to this city. (He shoots it twice more, ejects the cartridge and reloads.) Listen, Bob, I have no problem with killing you whatsoever.

ATLANTIS BRIG. The Wraith, still on its knees, snarls at John.

SHEPPARD (shouting): I'm not screwin' around, Bob! Did you sabotage this base or not? (He fires three shots into the Wraith, which collapses to the floor. It raises its head to look at John.)

WRAITH: Those who feed upon you will know what you've done to me.

SHEPPARD: Yeah. We'll see.

FORD: Sir. I think maybe we've gone a bit too far.

SHEPPARD: I don't think we've gone far enough.

Could you imagine Carter doing that? Ever?

Weir (38 Minutes)

Spoiler:

WEIR: No, you're missing mine. If you waste one more minute which could be used to help the people trapped on that ship because of your ego, I promise you I will dial the coordinates of a very lonely planet where you can be as self-important as you wanna be.

(Kavanagh smiles and scoffs. Weir looks at him.)

WEIR: You think I'm kidding?

(Kavanagh's smile begins to falter.)

KAVANAGH: You wouldn't do that.

WEIR: Kavanagh, get back in there!

Carter (BAMSR)

Spoiler:

ELLIS: I don't understand how you guys put up with ...

(Sam interrupts him as she walks around to glare into his face.)

CARTER: If you ever talk like that to someone under my command again, you will not be welcome on this base, Colonel. Is that clear?

(Ellis nods.)

ELLIS: Yes, it is.

CARTER: Good. (She looks round to include John and Caldwell.) We're done here. Thank you.

[VampyreWraith]

See below



ITA with that. But in the case of Carter at least, she'd been a bit inconsistent from s9 onwards, so I guess it was no great surprise for her.



Too nice isn't a reason not to do something. She wouldn't have made Colonel if she didn't have a backbone.


On the comparisons between Weir, Carter & Sheppard, here are some scenes I found that might be relevant:

Rising

Spoiler:

WEIR: And we're defenceless -- you said so yourself. How do you know going off on some half-assed rescue mission isn't gonna to bring them all right back here to our doorstep?

SHEPPARD: Maybe it will. But it's the right thing to do. Why? Because it is!

WEIR: John ...

SHEPPARD: If we're not gonna do this -- and I mean right now -- let's just turn tail and pack up, because they're coming.

WEIR: You don't know that.

SHEPPARD: Our people are in the hands of the enemy, Doctor. Do you know what that means? It is just a matter of time before the Wraith figure out that this is the base of our operations.

WEIR: I just need more information. I mean, who knows, maybe we could negotiate a peaceful ...

SHEPPARD: Peaceful? Are you kidding?! We weren't there for more than a few hours before they showed up.

WEIR: Is it possible they came because of you, and that one of these people you brought back here with you tipped them off?

SHEPPARD: It's possible.

WEIR: See, that is exactly the kind of snap decision I'm referring to!

SHEPPARD: They're not all bad people, and, you know, if we're gonna stick around here, we need friends.

WEIR: OK. I see your point. Now you see mine: I will not authorise a rescue mission unless I am sure there is at least a remote chance of success. I'm not sending more good people, including you, to their deaths.

vs the same scene in Reunion

Spoiler:

CARTER: I’m sorry, but it’s too dangerous.

SHEPPARD: It’s no more dangerous than the last time we went in.

CARTER: Circumstances were different, plus you had an advantage then that you don’t have now.

SHEPPARD: Well, she’s the one who gave us that advantage. The only reason we’re here is because of what she did.

CARTER: Believe me, I know, and I don’t like the idea of leaving someone behind any more than you do. But I am not about to send you or anyone else on a suicide mission. Now, you come to me with a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding and I’ll consider it. Short of that, John, I’m sorry. There’s nothing I can do.

SHEPPARD (reluctantly): Fair enough.


Not really much conviction from either party there

On Badass:


Sheppard (The Seige I)

Spoiler:

SHEPPARD: Yeah, but for how long? (He shoots it five more times. The Wraith falls to its knees.) I need to know what you've done to this city. (He shoots it twice more, ejects the cartridge and reloads.) Listen, Bob, I have no problem with killing you whatsoever.

ATLANTIS BRIG. The Wraith, still on its knees, snarls at John.

SHEPPARD (shouting): I'm not screwin' around, Bob! Did you sabotage this base or not? (He fires three shots into the Wraith, which collapses to the floor. It raises its head to look at John.)

WRAITH: Those who feed upon you will know what you've done to me.

SHEPPARD: Yeah. We'll see.

FORD: Sir. I think maybe we've gone a bit too far.

SHEPPARD: I don't think we've gone far enough.

Could you imagine Carter doing that? Ever?

Weir (38 Minutes)

Spoiler:

WEIR: No, you're missing mine. If you waste one more minute which could be used to help the people trapped on that ship because of your ego, I promise you I will dial the coordinates of a very lonely planet where you can be as self-important as you wanna be.

(Kavanagh smiles and scoffs. Weir looks at him.)

WEIR: You think I'm kidding?

(Kavanagh's smile begins to falter.)

KAVANAGH: You wouldn't do that.

WEIR: Kavanagh, get back in there!

Carter (BAMSR)

Spoiler:

ELLIS: I don't understand how you guys put up with ...

(Sam interrupts him as she walks around to glare into his face.)

CARTER: If you ever talk like that to someone under my command again, you will not be welcome on this base, Colonel. Is that clear?

(Ellis nods.)

ELLIS: Yes, it is.

CARTER: Good. (She looks round to include John and Caldwell.) We're done here. Thank you.

And those were some of atlantis sam's better scenes.

[Scary Kitty]

And those were some of atlantis sam's better scenes.

And even that's not saying much, considering how weak some of them are.

[gateraid]

Back to sparky

Spoiler:

Sheppard, Elizabeth, you sure took your sweet time coming to rescue us
Sorry 'bout that sir. It took a while before the news reached me. I was right in the middle of something
And what might that be?
Elizabeth


Huh. Not that I'm not thrilled to hear about your sex life, but would you mind doing something about the Replicators before I shoot Woolsey?