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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
    Hey guys, instead of the lazy sunday I was counting on, I just got back home after 10 of the most mindnumbing and hectic hours in years.
    OT:
    Spoiler:
    Around 1230 someone rings our doorbell. Totally not normal for a sunday, so that was kinda strange. It's the police and they bring us the news that my father-in-law has died while riding his bike. My boyfriend was completely shook up and had to sit down. Then they tell us that we're the first to know and that my mother-in-law doesn't know anything yet because they know she has trouble with her heart and they'd like someone from her close family to be there when they break the news to her. So we follow the cops to the house and when she sees the two cops she falls apart as he was already overdue for almost two hours. She has trouble breathing and the cops call an ambulance, to be on the safe side. After a couple of minutes the ambulance people arrive and decide to take her to the hospital.
    We followed the ambulance while Danny (my boyfriend) called his two brothers to break the news of his father and mother to them. Then we spent three hours in the ER, waiting by her bed until it was known what the hospital wanted to do with her. Luckily she's ok now and she'll prolly be allowed to return home in about two days.
    So, after Danny's brothers arrive, we decide that we have to tell the rest of the close-knitted family what happened to their father, but that doing it by phone would be a bad idea, especially because some of his brothers and sisters are quite old and would need someone with them. So we've spend hours on end visiting Danny's relatives, breaking the news to them and trying to comfort them. It was absolutely exhausting, especially mentally and especially because we saw people breaking down every time we told them the news.
    Sorry for telling all of this here, but I just needed to get it off my chest.


    Now, does anyone have some fluffy sparky to cheer me up?
    So sorry to hear that. Many prayers and best wishes for your boyfriend's family--I know it'll be hard for a while.

    I'll leave it up to others to rec fics, though you can have one of mine if you want--Landry trying to figure out Sparky eye!sex?

    A Good Pair of Eyes
    Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
      S9 and s 10 has Mitchell. That's enough for me.
      And Vala.
      Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

      Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

      Comment


        *hugs Kris* That is such an awful series of events for your family to have to go through. *more hugs*

        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
        I burned my s9 dvd's after watching. Literally. I put them in the fire. Burn Jackson, burn
        *cracks up*

        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
        Antagonistic may be going a bit far. Carter was probably testing Weir out. I imagine it had something to do with the fact that she was a civilian - she would've never tried that with Hammond. And I doubt if Weir was still there in a year if she would've tried that with her, either.
        I don't know if Weir being civilian really had anything to do with it. I seem to recall an episode from earlier seasons where Hammond had been temporarily replaced by another military officer, SG-1 didn't like it, they pulled their usual shenanigans and, you guessed it, they got away with it.

        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
        I don't think she did it on purpose. I also think Carter would've been written a bit better in s5, it usually takes them a while to get a handle on how to write characters - what is it they say? Find their 'voice'?
        Somehow, I doubt it. Besides, they supposedly had a 'handle' on writing Carter for SG-1; they had years of experience writing her, so it shouldn't have been that difficult for them to transition her to Atlantis, yet it was.

        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
        Again, I think that was more a reflection on TPTW's wish to just ignore the whole situation. Which, if you were the casual viewer, would've made NO SENSE. I never got the impression there was an axe to grind, but they did drop the ball a bit in terms of any reference to what had actually occured.
        Which translated on screen to Carter looking like she wanted to just ignore the whole situation.

        Originally posted by Fionnait View Post
        I pride myself in not having not truly watched a single episode without Elizabeth in it. (Except for that one where Rodney and Jennifer are at that meeting that I accidentally caught on TV which I watched half-assedly (is that a word?) and one where Teyla is pregnant and at a facility, which I watched together with my former flatmate, but I do not recall anything from it, except that my flatmate found Ronon to be hot *lol*)
        Well, that's a good memory to have of it! LOL!

        Originally posted by Anuna View Post
        S9 and s 10 has Mitchell. That's enough for me.
        True, dat.

        Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
        I never had a problem with Sam herself, other than that she seemed mischaracterized in SGA, because if you saw her in SG-1 she wasn't the same. Even watching her in "The Pegasus Project" when she's interacting with them she's different. In Midway when Teal'c shows up I almost get that sense that she's super relieved just to see a face that can pull her back into character.
        That's the heart of the issue, right there. Just because she had taken command of Atlantis shouldn't have changed her so radically, yet for some reason, the writers decided to make her completely different. She might as well have been a completely different character.

        Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
        I have a hard time separating the business end from the story, especially in S4. I can do it in Season 5, but all the poor writing--I really can't think of a way that you can write Sam or any of that situation 'good' that would make any kind of sense. They should have realized we were not stupid; we don't fail to understand stuff about character's we've loved for 3 seasons. We know what John would say and what Sam would say and do.

        But even authorizing a rescue mission to Asuras, with the business being what it was, you'd end up with poor writing trying to justify why John gave up or failed to rescue Elizabeth. It was such a crappy, crappy situation, made more obvious when the writers of SGA couldn't figure what to do with Sam and she suddenly stopped appearing in the leadership capacity for whatever reason until the pivotal episodes. Or John was drastically dark one minute then cheerfully wiping Asuras off the map another. It was all head-shakeable.
        Crappy is right! None of it ever seemed to make any sense, none of it fit in with what had been established in previous seasons or even in a previous episode from the same season. Really makes me wonder what the level of communication was between the writers, because based on the finished product, it looked like they weren't talking to each other at all. *headdesk*
        (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
        Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
          And Vala.
          i liked her only when she wasnt with daniel. her scenes with Adria and especially Tomin in Line in the Sand were great.
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            Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

            Somehow, I doubt it. Besides, they supposedly had a 'handle' on writing Carter for SG-1; they had years of experience writing her, so it shouldn't have been that difficult for them to transition her to Atlantis, yet it was.



            Which translated on screen to Carter looking like she wanted to just ignore the whole situation.



            That's the heart of the issue, right there. Just because she had taken command of Atlantis shouldn't have changed her so radically, yet for some reason, the writers decided to make her completely different. She might as well have been a completely different character.


            She felt like a different character. thats y i always make the distinction of sg1 sam and atlantis sam. I dont like what they did to sam in atlantis. While i was watching her , i was always like Sam would never say that, Sam would never do that, and i still dont get y radek had to go with them on the rescue mission in reunion. I also have issues on the way daniel was written in first contact and tlt, even though he and mckay were funny together.
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              Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
              She felt like a different character. thats y i always make the distinction of sg1 sam and atlantis sam. I dont like what they did to sam in atlantis. While i was watching her , i was always like Sam would never say that, Sam would never do that, and i still dont get y radek had to go with them on the rescue mission in reunion. I also have issues on the way daniel was written in first contact and tlt, even though he and mckay were funny together.
              *nods* More often than not, it felt like I was watching some really bad fanfic written by someone who had only seen one or two episodes and didn't really understand what was going on. *shudders*
              (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
              Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                *nods* More often than not, it felt like I was watching some really bad fanfic written by someone who had only seen one or two episodes and didn't really understand what was going on. *shudders*
                exactly. They said they wrote out elizabeth because they wanted a military leader with a science backround. but then the wrote sam like a civilian instead of the military leader she was. Shes supposed to be johns commanding officer but she never really orders him to do anything. Shes a scientist on par with mckay, but plays dumb while mckay is explaining stuff. Um y did they replace elizabeth again?????/// TPTB did two characters/actors a disservice.
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                  Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                  Liked Mitchell a lot. But i had a really hard time enjoying scenes that had daniel and vala together in them. Vala played up the rouge sex kitten act a bit too much when she was around daniel. i found it cringeworthy not cute or endearing. Dont mean any offense to any daniel/vala shippers that might be in here, but thats how i felt.
                  Me too. Expecially that one in the final. It played about 30secs to long.

                  Vala seemed to act differently around everyone else. I didn't ship Cam/Vala, but they made a good duo.

                  Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
                  Spoiler:
                  He's such a monster. GAH! I love to watch him play. SO HAPPY he won.

                  I can't dislike Nadal because Federer is still better than him. If it were Nadal always I'd say that but Rafa still has to catch Roger.




                  I never had a problem with Sam herself, other than that she seemed mischaracterized in SGA, because if you saw her in SG-1 she wasn't the same. Even watching her in "The Pegasus Project" when she's interacting with them she's different. In Midway when Teal'c shows up I almost get that sense that she's super relieved just to see a face that can pull her back into character.
                  That's funny, I thought that's (The Pegasus Project) how they'd write her on Atlantis. AT herself said they pulled the character back at bit at the start of the season, and felt they went a bit too far. Agreed.

                  But even authorizing a rescue mission to Asuras, with the business being what it was, you'd end up with poor writing trying to justify why John gave up or failed to rescue Elizabeth. It was such a crappy, crappy situation, made more obvious when the writers of SGA couldn't figure what to do with Sam and she suddenly stopped appearing in the leadership capacity for whatever reason until the pivotal episodes. Or John was drastically dark one minute then cheerfully wiping Asuras off the map another. It was all head-shakeable.
                  That's true. I guess the tidiest solution would've been for the bit for Lifeline to have ended differently. Actually show Carter etc finding Atlantis, then jumping to Asuras (Carter stays to help repair the city) to rescue John etc, and Oberoth actually kills Weir when they are escaping. End credits. Atlantis lands in the next ep.

                  That's not an outcome I'd have wanted at the time, but it would've solved a lot of problems.

                  Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                  *hugs Kris* That is such an awful series of events for your family to have to go through. *more hugs*
                  Agreed (((hugs)))


                  I don't know if Weir being civilian really had anything to do with it. I seem to recall an episode from earlier seasons where Hammond had been temporarily replaced by another military officer, SG-1 didn't like it, they pulled their usual shenanigans and, you guessed it, they got away with it.
                  I think it played a part. While she didn't agree with General Bauer (sp), she followed his orders. The same when Jack was removed from command of SG-1 for stealing - the new Colonel said she had no problem with his authority. The one who actually rebelled when Hammond was replaced was Jack, and he had to 'go fishing'.

                  Somehow, I doubt it. Besides, they supposedly had a 'handle' on writing Carter for SG-1; they had years of experience writing her, so it shouldn't have been that difficult for them to transition her to Atlantis, yet it was.
                  Gero in particular made a big deal about getting to write for Carter, having only written a handful of SG-1 eps in the past. And some of the SGA writers wouldn't have written for Carter in some time.

                  That's the heart of the issue, right there. Just because she had taken command of Atlantis shouldn't have changed her so radically, yet for some reason, the writers decided to make her completely different. She might as well have been a completely different character.
                  ITA. They may as well not bothered to bring Carter in at all. They'd have been better to go with Mitch (who I presume was unavailable)


                  Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                  She felt like a different character. thats y i always make the distinction of sg1 sam and atlantis sam. I dont like what they did to sam in atlantis. While i was watching her , i was always like Sam would never say that, Sam would never do that, and i still dont get y radek had to go with them on the rescue mission in reunion. I also have issues on the way daniel was written in first contact and tlt, even though he and mckay were funny together.
                  I don't get why Carter went on it either, considering she didn't go to Midway. Radek went because they needed a science guy to get them into the facility. As for Jackson, I haven't liked him since s9 (although I had some serious reservations from s7). Although to be fair, I wasn't his greatest fan to begin with. I just didn't like the way his character changed so much when MS returned.
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                    Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                    exactly. They said they wrote out elizabeth because they wanted a military leader with a science backround. but then the wrote sam like a civilian instead of the military leader she was. Shes supposed to be johns commanding officer but she never really orders him to do anything. Shes a scientist on par with mckay, but plays dumb while mckay is explaining stuff. Um y did they replace elizabeth again?????/// TPTB did two characters/actors a disservice.
                    Yes, they did do a terrible disservice. It was a cheap casting stunt and a total disaster that didn't accomplish anything of note except create a lot of hard feelings for actors and fans alike. It's like the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, it wasn't broken and it was doing just fine... until they tried to 'fix' it. *sighs*
                    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                      exactly. They said they wrote out elizabeth because they wanted a military leader with a science backround. but then the wrote sam like a civilian instead of the military leader she was. Shes supposed to be johns commanding officer but she never really orders him to do anything. Shes a scientist on par with mckay, but plays dumb while mckay is explaining stuff. Um y did they replace elizabeth again?????/// TPTB did two characters/actors a disservice.
                      I may have to stop posting. You say what I'm thinking but in a more concise fashion
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                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        That's funny, I thought that's (The Pegasus Project) how they'd write her on Atlantis. AT herself said they pulled the character back at bit at the start of the season, and felt they went a bit too far. Agreed.
                        I have to agree as well. I know they pulled her back because they didn't want her to overshadow Sheppard and McKay (which is certainly a valid concern), but at the same time, they didn't have to make her look like a dunce in the process.

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        That's true. I guess the tidiest solution would've been for the bit for Lifeline to have ended differently. Actually show Carter etc finding Atlantis, then jumping to Asuras (Carter stays to help repair the city) to rescue John etc, and Oberoth actually kills Weir when they are escaping. End credits. Atlantis lands in the next ep.

                        That's not an outcome I'd have wanted at the time, but it would've solved a lot of problems.
                        Of course, the fan firestorm would've been even worse...

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        I think it played a part. While she didn't agree with General Bauer (sp), she followed his orders. The same when Jack was removed from command of SG-1 for stealing - the new Colonel said she had no problem with his authority. The one who actually rebelled when Hammond was replaced was Jack, and he had to 'go fishing'.
                        The thing is, Weir was appointed by the President. Which means that Carter just went against the Commander-In-Chief. Ooops.

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        Gero in particular made a big deal about getting to write for Carter, having only written a handful of SG-1 eps in the past. And some of the SGA writers wouldn't have written for Carter in some time.
                        The experience working with the character was still there, and it still went unused.

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        ITA. They may as well not bothered to bring Carter in at all. They'd have been better to go with Mitch (who I presume was unavailable)
                        Yeah, Caldwell would've been better, seeing as how he had been introduced as the presumptive new military commander before Weir played her 'I'm buddies with the President, don't mess with Shep' card in Intruder. As I recall, I think Mitch was working on a play in New York around that time, and they created Ellis and the Apollo as an alternate ship to fill in for episodes where they needed an Earth ship but Mitch wasn't available.

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        I don't get why Carter went on it either, considering she didn't go to Midway. Radek went because they needed a science guy to get them into the facility. As for Jackson, I haven't liked him since s9 (although I had some serious reservations from s7). Although to be fair, I wasn't his greatest fan to begin with. I just didn't like the way his character changed so much when MS returned.
                        They had Carter go on the mission so they could do the, 'look, Carter's kicking ass on Atlantis!' thing. Which really shouldn't have happened since she's the commander and she's supposed to stay behind and mind the store... I guess Kavan Smith wasn't available to play Lorne in that episode.
                        (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                        Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                          Me too. Expecially that one in the final. It played about 30secs to long.

                          Vala seemed to act differently around everyone else. I didn't ship Cam/Vala, but they made a good duo.




                          I don't get why Carter went on it either, considering she didn't go to Midway. Radek went because they needed a science guy to get them into the facility. As for Jackson, I haven't liked him since s9 (although I had some serious reservations from s7). Although to be fair, I wasn't his greatest fan to begin with. I just didn't like the way his character changed so much when MS returned.
                          Agree with vala/daniel in unending and i nearly threw up listening to the commentary about y she was crying in thr bedroom.

                          The point i was trying to make about radek going is that sam is supposed to be a scientist too , y would they need a terrified looking civilian on a rescue mission (i like radek btw) if sam is both military and a scientist who opened many doors in sg1
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                            Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                            Agree with vala/daniel in unending and i nearly threw up listening to the commentary about y she was crying in thr bedroom.
                            The miscarriage? It was just one of those actor things for motivation, it could just as easily have been frustration over being cooped up for so long

                            The point i was trying to make about radek going is that sam is supposed to be a scientist too , y would they need a terrified looking civilian on a rescue mission (i like radek btw) if sam is both military and a scientist who opened many doors in sg1
                            Yeah, but she was leading the mission. She needs to be able to observe what's going on. They ran into problems on SG-1 when they tried to make her do both - as in, she had to pull back from one role and delegate it to someone else (generally, telling Teal'C)
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                              Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                              I may have to stop posting. You say what I'm thinking but in a more concise fashion
                              lol

                              Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                              I have to agree as well. I know they pulled her back because they didn't want her to overshadow Sheppard and McKay (which is certainly a valid concern), but at the same time, they didn't have to make her look like a dunce in the process.
                              Agreed , I wouldnt have wanted her dressing down john, or trying to one up mckay, but they went to far.
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                                Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                                lol



                                Agreed , I wouldnt have wanted her dressing down john, or trying to one up mckay, but they went to far.
                                But at least it would've been in character. She'd been written in the past to be better than both John and Rodney. You wouldn't know it from watching SGA. The hallucination Carter from Grace Under Pressure was smarter than SGA Carter, Rodney even admitted that she was smarter than him then
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