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    Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
    And tying it in to Sparky, I think it's paralleled in how, after losing Elizabeth, John seems to have lost another piece of himself. We saw the first hint of it in The Eye, but it's really after Lifeline that he lapses more and more often into a darker, uglier side to his character, intimidating Wallace into sacrificing himself to feed Todd in Miller's Crossing or pushing around village leaders in Outsiders and Identity. It's like Elizabeth's influence held him back, made him want to be better, for her sake and the sake of everyone else, but without her gentle hand, he's saying 'screw this, no more Mr. Nice Guy.' Or am I off base with that idea?
    No, I don't think you're off base with that idea. It's always a part of how I saw them. Elizabeth brought out the good in John and with her being gone, that good is slowly fading too. He won't turn bad, but he has a lesser tendency to always try and do good.

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      Originally posted by Anuna View Post
      I LOVE that idea, but we don't want me to go on psychoaanlysis spree again.

      On a more serious note, love and deep affection have certain and important amount of influence over person's life. Which means, if that influence is gone, a person could feel there's no need, or reason to abide some rules/respect values... etc. That can be a form of grief in itself, so yeah. It sounds like John to me a LOT.
      And Elizabeth is the one who wanted him on atlantis in the first place, shes always backed him. Shes the one who really gave him a chance to start over and be kinda a better person.

      Not that he wasnt a good person to begin with lol
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        I come bearing fic!
        Enjoy!!

        Spoiler:
        Title: Hug, Kiss, Love, Dream
        Author: Kris Russel
        Rating: PG
        Category: Romance, fluff, angst, drama
        Spoilers: minor reference to The Siege
        Summary: Four moments in the lives of John and Elizabeth.
        Disclaimer: Not mine and will never be mine.
        Author’s Note: I came across the four sentences that lead this fic on accident and thought they were very fitting for our favorite ship. Enjoy!!


        A hug is just a hug, till its the one you're thinking of...

        It had happened so fast and it was over even faster and it was only hours later that John Sheppard seemed to realize that he had held Elizabeth Weir in his arms. That he had hugged her... well, technically she had hugged him, but who cared about details like that.
        So now he was sitting on his bed, trying to wrap his mind around the fact that he had held Elizabeth in his arms.
        Even though he was shocked at first by her actions, he now realized how insanely good it had felt. How right it had felt to hold her close.
        He'd hugged people before, but it had never ever felt like that.
        And he'd be damned if he didn't want it to happen again.


        A kiss is just a kiss, till you find the one you love...

        He barely remembered how it had happened, but he suddenly found himself kissing Elizabeth... and what was even more amazing, she was kissing him back.
        He was sure the sheer amount of Athosian alcohol had something to do with the unrestricted way they had been treating each other most of the evening. And then he was walking her back to her quarters and then he was kissing her and... Oh God... A first kiss wasn't supposed to be this mindblowing...
        When the need to breathe became too much, their lips slightly parted and their foreheads touched, like they were reluctant to have some distance between them.
        "Damn..." John whispered and Elizabeth smiled.
        "Yeah..." She answered breathlessly and John couldn't help but slightly grin at the fact that he had done that to her.
        She glanced at her door and he knew she was debating with herself to invite him in or not, so he decided to make it easy on her.
        Gently cupping her cheek in his palm, he gave her a soft smile. "Not when we'll both wake up with a hangover."
        No, he wanted to remember and fully enjoy every single second of the first time he'd spend in her bed. Including seeing her waking up in the morning. God, he was looking forward to seeing her waking up next to him.
        "You're right." She agreed and kissed him again before opening her door. "I'll see you in the morning."
        He nodded and after the door closed, he stayed rooted on the spot for a few more minutes.
        Then he suddenly realized he had just kissed Elizabeth...twice... and the most stupid grin ever appeared on his face as he turned around and headed for his own quarters.
        He was really looking forward to tomorrow... hangover be damned.


        Love is just a word till its proven to you...

        "John, you can't..."
        The pain in her voice was obvious and they had already done this dance before, but it had been different then. Back then they were just friends, but now...
        "I have to and you know it."
        The pain in her eyes was also obvious and it broke his heart that he had to do this to her.
        "Please, John..."
        He walked closer to her and cupped her cheek in his palm, ignoring the gaping people around them in the control room.
        "It's the only way."
        She swallowed thickly and nodded. He simply wrapped his arms around her and pulled her closer in an effort to comfort the both of them.
        When he finally let go of her, she kissed him.
        The kiss hurt him... he didn't want it to be their last one.
        "I love you." She whispered quietly and it broke his heart all over again.
        "I love you too." He admitted and walked away from her, knowing that he would probably never return to her.



        A dream is just a dream, till you make it come true...

        He looked at her in amazement. She was holding their just born son in her arms and even though she looked exhausted and had just been through eight hours of labor, she had never looked more beautiful to him.
        Carefully approaching her, he sat down on the edge of the bed and she looked up at him with a smile that warmed his heart.
        "He's beautiful." She said softly.
        "That means he takes after you." John smiled.
        "Don't underestimate how hot you look." She joked and they shared a grin.
        "I love you." He said after staring at his son for a couple of moments. "Both of you."
        "We love you too... daddy."
        The most incredible feeling of complete satisfaction filled him and it was then that he realized how insanely lucky he was.
        "You made my dream come true, you know that?"
        She gave him a surprised look. "Really?"
        He nodded. "I'm married to the most amazing and beautiful woman in two galaxies and she just gave me a son... You have no idea how much that means to me."
        Her smile grew. "It's a dream come true for me too."
        Bending towards her, he gently kissed her and he knew that whatever live in Pegasus would throw at them, his little family would make it through.

        The End

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          Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
          Yes, please.

          Time to hug, kiss and make up, and get back to the business of converting the world to the worship of Sparky. Agreed, everyone?

          I just stomp around and scream obscenities in a couple of languages.

          And tying it in to Sparky, I think it's paralleled in how, after losing Elizabeth, John seems to have lost another piece of himself. We saw the first hint of it in The Eye, but it's really after Lifeline that he lapses more and more often into a darker, uglier side to his character, intimidating Wallace into sacrificing himself to feed Todd in Miller's Crossing or pushing around village leaders in Outsiders and Identity. It's like Elizabeth's influence held him back, made him want to be better, for her sake and the sake of everyone else, but without her gentle hand, he's saying 'screw this, no more Mr. Nice Guy.' Or am I off base with that idea?
          No, didn't we discuss that this morning after Identity?

          It's interesting that in the last couple of episodes before EaTG (which I haven't watched yet) John does a couple of things that are much darker than I anticipated he'd be. Yes, his character is more reserved, more toned down in S5, but he actually does have a few "Miller's Crossing" moments in a few episodes. Most notably in "Infection" but also in "Identity". It's interesting--the further he gets from Elizabeth; the more she becomes a memory, the darker he goes.

          Which is why she's got to come back, at least for John's sake.
          Visit SGArising.com to read our virtual continuation of the Atlantis series!

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            Originally posted by Anuna View Post
            I LOVE that idea, but we don't want me to go on psychoaanlysis spree again.
            Hee.

            Originally posted by Anuna View Post
            On a more serious note, love and deep affection have certain and important amount of influence over person's life. Which means, if that influence is gone, a person could feel there's no need, or reason to abide some rules/respect values... etc. That can be a form of grief in itself, so yeah. It sounds like John to me a LOT.
            Yup.

            Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
            No, didn't we discuss that this morning after Identity?
            *grins* I thought it sounded appropriate at this juncture.

            Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
            It's interesting that in the last couple of episodes before EaTG (which I haven't watched yet) John does a couple of things that are much darker than I anticipated he'd be. Yes, his character is more reserved, more toned down in S5, but he actually does have a few "Miller's Crossing" moments in a few episodes. Most notably in "Infection" but also in "Identity". It's interesting--the further he gets from Elizabeth; the more she becomes a memory, the darker he goes.

            Which is why she's got to come back, at least for John's sake.
            She's the other half of his soul.

            It's not like he can't go on without her, he can and he has, we've seen that. It's that she seems to bring out the very best in him, and without her, he's lost his ability to find and embrace that part of himself.

            That said... I have to admit, it gives me a thrill sometimes to watch him indulge in his inner bad boy.
            (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
            Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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              Originally posted by nephtys59 View Post
              I believe that the "do not leave behind" mantra comes from John's early military life, probably from one of his comrades in Afghanistan or from one of his superiors. Maybe it's just John who -in a critical situation- has been saved by someone who told him "we do not leave our people behind".
              As to his mother, I agree about a illness instead of an accident or similar, but I would avoid cancer (overused).
              I agree with a progressive invalidating disease, something that his father didn't know how to handle and, because of that, caused his father to be distant from her mother and John to be resentful towards his father.
              This makes sense, IMHO.
              The "leave no man behind" mantra is common in all areas of the military. It also includes, if possible, not leaving the dead behind. John seemed to believe in that more strongly than most but since his charges included civilians he was able to broaden the idea to include everyone.

              Originally posted by Eri13 View Post
              No, didn't we discuss that this morning after Identity?

              It's interesting that in the last couple of episodes before EaTG (which I haven't watched yet) John does a couple of things that are much darker than I anticipated he'd be. Yes, his character is more reserved, more toned down in S5, but he actually does have a few "Miller's Crossing" moments in a few episodes. Most notably in "Infection" but also in "Identity". It's interesting--the further he gets from Elizabeth; the more she becomes a memory, the darker he goes.

              Which is why she's got to come back, at least for John's sake.
              That's a very interesting way to look at it. John did seem to sink into a darker place and stay there. For example, after Miller's Crossing he was still able to joke with Rodney and at times seem somewhat like his old self. By S5, however, he seemed to go to his dark place at the slightest provocation. In The Seed when he said "I'll do it.", the look on his face was just very telling to me. He was resigned to the idea that he was the only one who could be the guinea pig. It was ridiculous really that they let the military commander do this, but John would not have stood for anyone else doing it. The whole season seemed to be a slow slide toward Vegas and by the time we met that John he didn't seem so far fetched.
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              Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                The "leave no man behind" mantra is common in all areas of the military. It also includes, if possible, not leaving the dead behind. John seemed to believe in that more strongly than most but since his charges included civilians he was able to broaden the idea to include everyone.
                Indeed, his personal code of honor seemed to demand nothing less than total devotion to that idea.

                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                That's a very interesting way to look at it. John did seem to sink into a darker place and stay there. For example, after Miller's Crossing he was still able to joke with Rodney and at times seem somewhat like his old self. By S5, however, he seemed to go to his dark place at the slightest provocation. In The Seed when he said "I'll do it.", the look on his face was just very telling to me. He was resigned to the idea that he was the only one who could be the guinea pig. It was ridiculous really that they let the military commander do this, but John would not have stood for anyone else doing it. The whole season seemed to be a slow slide toward Vegas and by the time we met that John he didn't seem so far fetched.
                *nods* I think the notice you've paid to how he was still joking with Rodney after Miller's Crossing is important. The very next episode was This Mortal Coil, where they learned that Elizabeth was (supposedly) killed by Oberoth (total lie, of course, but that's a different discussion ). In the final scene with John and Rodney, we learn that up until then, they had still been holding on to hope that they'd get Elizabeth back:

                McKAY: No, I wanna finish this. What about you – isn't it past your bedtime?

                SHEPPARD (quietly): I'll approve the removal of her personal items tomorrow – have everything shipped back to Earth.

                (Rodney nods understandingly, his face sad.)

                SHEPPARD: I would have done it sooner, but I actually thought we were gonna bring her back.

                McKAY: Yeah. Me too.
                In a way, it's like TMC is kind of the point of no return for John. In his eyes, all hope of getting Elizabeth back, all of his hope, is lost. Which makes GitM even more of a gut punch.
                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                  No harm done... sometimes I think I have finally accepted my mother's condition, and other times I realize that I haven't really at all. And then I'm going from angry to sad, and back to angry. But that's okay - it's normal I guess.

                  But, like I said, I can offer a viewpoint if you should go with Mr. Parkinson. I can be the emotional research or something.


                  And how's Mr. SR feeling?

                  That's one hell of gene-soup.

                  Pope John Paul the 2nd had Parkinson's. And he got really old too.

                  Michael J. Fox has Parkinson's - though not quite sure how he's doing these days. All I know he's involved in fundraising and doing as much as he can in the research to a cure or medicine to slow the disease down.

                  And... yeah, I do my occasional reading on the subject...
                  I'm sorry (((hugs))) I think best to avoid it if it is going to cause distress.

                  Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                  You've been in my head again Ms. Psychologist. I'm still trying to save my brother. (Asperger's, for those who don't know) Maybe John's trying to save his "family" is to make up for not being able to save his mom. He's determined to get it right this time. The lines that Kolya was going to say about his mother and Elizabeth would back that up. So one of you medically smart sciencey people needs to find the perfect disease or condition that would make it all fall into place.

                  The time when he wouldn't say goodbye to Rodney seemed to go beyond the moment to me too. It felt like he'd been there before. And it wasn't just the beer talking.

                  There's another option I've been musing on. It's probably a bit too far out in left field to be realistic, but:

                  How about having John's mother (I vote for Lydia Rose Sheppard) being killed by one of Patrick's clients/associates, as a form of business retaliation? Perhaps John was too young to be able to overpower the killer to stop him killing Lydia? Maybe that's why John became estranged from his father - blaming him for the circumstances leading up to his mother's death, but himself for not being able to actually stop it?

                  It could also explain why he has an ambivalent attitude to money, and the family business, and shunned it to join the Air Force, where protecting/saving people is one of their core beliefs?

                  Perhaps that's a bit too Bruce Wayne though.

                  Originally posted by nephtys59 View Post
                  I believe that the "do not leave behind" mantra comes from John's early military life, probably from one of his comrades in Afghanistan or from one of his superiors. Maybe it's just John who -in a critical situation- has been saved by someone who told him "we do not leave our people behind".
                  As to his mother, I agree about a illness instead of an accident or similar, but I would avoid cancer (overused).
                  I agree with a progressive invalidating disease, something that his father didn't know how to handle and, because of that, caused his father to be distant from her mother and John to be resentful towards his father.
                  This makes sense, IMHO.
                  I believe that too. Not to mention, it's a good motto to live by in general

                  Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                  You're right, very fitting for the both of them...



                  Clinical depression is something I don't get, but that's probably because I never came in close contact with it. So I also can't link it to suicide or put it in the right frame. And trust me, I count myself lucky I never came in close contact with it.
                  The people I personally know that committed suicide didn't have any sort of depression, but they just gave up on life. Leaving devastated family members behind questioning why they did what they did. It's people like that who are cowards. If it's a desease, then you can't help yourself, but if you consciously choose to take your own live because you think it would be easier being death and thus leaving your family and friends in pieces, then you're a coward.
                  Hmmm. Well, this seems to have been covered already, but a blanket statement like that isn't really all that helpful.

                  For one thing, NOBODY can claim to know what is actually going on in somebody's head. No matter how well you know someone, you actually do not know what they're truly thinking. I've known a few people who've commited suicide, one in particular who had everything going for them (by that I mean a happy family life, a solid financial situation, great kids, the lot).

                  Here's another perspective on it:

                  Kate Mulgrew

                  I heart her so much for that answer, even though it was quite unfair for her to be asked the question in that setting

                  Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                  Indeed, his personal code of honor seemed to demand nothing less than total devotion to that idea.



                  *nods* I think the notice you've paid to how he was still joking with Rodney after Miller's Crossing is important. The very next episode was This Mortal Coil, where they learned that Elizabeth was (supposedly) killed by Oberoth (total lie, of course, but that's a different discussion ). In the final scene with John and Rodney, we learn that up until then, they had still been holding on to hope that they'd get Elizabeth back:



                  In a way, it's like TMC is kind of the point of no return for John. In his eyes, all hope of getting Elizabeth back, all of his hope, is lost. Which makes GitM even more of a gut punch.
                  Yeah, and all we got out of it were a few lines tacked on to the end of an episode. EPIC FAIL
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                    gateraid good kate mulgrew vid. And jf did say something about outcast feeling very batmanesque so its not too much of a stretch.
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                      Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                      I'm sorry (((hugs))) I think best to avoid it if it is going to cause distress.
                      Thanks.

                      But we've seen already that we have a whole gene pool of diseases in the thread - from lupus to Alzheimer's and Parkinson.

                      Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                      There's another option I've been musing on. It's probably a bit too far out in left field to be realistic, but:

                      Spoiler:

                      How about having John's mother (I vote for Lydia Rose Sheppard) being killed by one of Patrick's clients/associates, as a form of business retaliation? Perhaps John was too young to be able to overpower the killer to stop him killing Lydia? Maybe that's why John became estranged from his father - blaming him for the circumstances leading up to his mother's death, but himself for not being able to actually stop it?

                      It could also explain why he has an ambivalent attitude to money, and the family business, and shunned it to join the Air Force, where protecting/saving people is one of their core beliefs?

                      Perhaps that's a bit too Bruce Wayne though.
                      I don't think that's too farfetched.

                      Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                      Yeah, and all we got out of it were a few lines tacked on to the end of an episode. EPIC FAIL
                      Isn't EPIC FAIL the motto for season 5 of Atlantis anyway?

                      Originally posted by VampyreWraith View Post
                      ...batmanesque...
                      *giggles* Good word to describe that.
                      Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                      Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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                        Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
                        Indeed, his personal code of honor seemed to demand nothing less than total devotion to that idea.



                        *nods* I think the notice you've paid to how he was still joking with Rodney after Miller's Crossing is important. The very next episode was This Mortal Coil, where they learned that Elizabeth was (supposedly) killed by Oberoth (total lie, of course, but that's a different discussion ). In the final scene with John and Rodney, we learn that up until then, they had still been holding on to hope that they'd get Elizabeth back:



                        In a way, it's like TMC is kind of the point of no return for John. In his eyes, all hope of getting Elizabeth back, all of his hope, is lost. Which makes GitM even more of a gut punch.
                        Thank you for making that connection. That was another case of TPTW telling us something instead of showing us. I would love to have seen John continuing to mention rescuing her to Sam or have heard something about yet another plan of his that didn't get approval and the frustrated look on his face or to have seen him act all stoic and then go into his quarters and throw something. Joe would have too from his recent remarks about the situation but no, they had to waste time on trivial things like giving Carter a fruit basket and forget the best leader they ever had.

                        But at least after TMC we got an even darker John. Wasn't it in BAMSR, which was the next ep, that he learned about Teyla's pregnancy? That must have sent him even further down the road of feeling like he was losing control. But his distraction with trying to rescue Elizabeth might explain why she was able to carry on a relationship that Ronon knew all about but John didn't. He just simply was not paying attention to his team after losing Elizabeth.

                        Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                        I'm sorry (((hugs))) I think best to avoid it if it is going to cause distress.




                        There's another option I've been musing on. It's probably a bit too far out in left field to be realistic, but:

                        How about having John's mother (I vote for Lydia Rose Sheppard) being killed by one of Patrick's clients/associates, as a form of business retaliation? Perhaps John was too young to be able to overpower the killer to stop him killing Lydia? Maybe that's why John became estranged from his father - blaming him for the circumstances leading up to his mother's death, but himself for not being able to actually stop it?

                        It could also explain why he has an ambivalent attitude to money, and the family business, and shunned it to join the Air Force, where protecting/saving people is one of their core beliefs?

                        Perhaps that's a bit too Bruce Wayne though.
                        *raises hand* Too left field. And I hate the characterization of every powerful businessman as being ruthless and evil. It's a hot button of mine. There was no indication that his dad was corrupt. But what could have happened was that he spent most of his time away from the family working and even when he was home he was closed up in his office or on the phone. John would have seen how lonely his mom was and both he and his brother would have felt the lack of their dad's attention. Maybe when whatever happened to John's mom, his dad was away on business and John felt like the man of the house when he was gone. But somehow he failed to protect his mom or wasn't there when she died and he felt guilty.
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                        Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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                          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                          Thanks.

                          But we've seen already that we have a whole gene pool of diseases in the thread - from lupus to Alzheimer's and Parkinson.
                          Surprisingly true. It seems the bad luck fairy has been busy

                          Isn't EPIC FAIL the motto for season 5 of Atlantis anyway?
                          Actually, I didn't find it too bad. I'd change a few things of course - add back some characters that disappeared in the previous disaster of a season


                          Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                          Thank you for making that connection. That was another case of TPTW telling us something instead of showing us. I would love to have seen John continuing to mention rescuing her to Sam or have heard something about yet another plan of his that didn't get approval and the frustrated look on his face or to have seen him act all stoic and then go into his quarters and throw something. Joe would have too from his recent remarks about the situation but no, they had to waste time on trivial things like giving Carter a fruit basket and forget the best leader they ever had.
                          It made it seem like no treal thought at all had been given towards rescuing Weir. Even the convo in Reuinion didn't make sense - it'd been what, a couple of weeks? since Carter had left then come back. Surely if they were going to do anything at all, it'd have to be straight away.

                          But at least after TMC we got an even darker John. Wasn't it in BAMSR, which was the next ep, that he learned about Teyla's pregnancy? That must have sent him even further down the road of feeling like he was losing control. But his distraction with trying to rescue Elizabeth might explain why she was able to carry on a relationship that Ronon knew all about but John didn't. He just simply was not paying attention to his team after losing Elizabeth.
                          It certainly was. He must've been a little absent minded (they all must've been) if they hadn't noticed Teyla's pregnancy.


                          *raises hand* Too left field. And I hate the characterization of every powerful businessman as being ruthless and evil. It's a hot button of mine. There was no indication that his dad was corrupt. But what could have happened was that he spent most of his time away from the family working and even when he was home he was closed up in his office or on the phone. John would have seen how lonely his mom was and both he and his brother would have felt the lack of their dad's attention. Maybe when whatever happened to John's mom, his dad was away on business and John felt like the man of the house when he was gone. But somehow he failed to protect his mom or wasn't there when she died and he felt guilty.
                          I wasn't meaning Patrick was evil, merely one of his clients was a bit desperate. A bit like how those guys picked up Hammond's grandkids back in s4? and took them for a ride (so that he'd leave) except it all went a bit wrong. While powerful businessmen can be a bit 'that way', it doesn't necessarily follow that they have to be. There are many philanthropists out there, perhaps that's why John doesn't seem bothered by money
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                            Old smut fic to keep spirits high

                            Making The Rules

                            McKay is priceless
                            "STD. Severe Testosterone Decontamination"
                            and
                            Sheppard: "I want to talk to her." (= Elizabeth)
                            McKay: "Oh, I don't think that's such a good idea. She's not really someone you want to be in the same room with… no wait, same galaxy with… right now."


                            Have a nice weekend you all!

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                              *points up* Did anyone see the fic I posted?

                              Sig by me

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                                Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

                                Yes, I'm up early. I woke up two hours ago and after tossing and turning for a while, I decided to just get up.

                                Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                                There's another option I've been musing on. It's probably a bit too far out in left field to be realistic, but:

                                How about having John's mother (I vote for Lydia Rose Sheppard) being killed by one of Patrick's clients/associates, as a form of business retaliation? Perhaps John was too young to be able to overpower the killer to stop him killing Lydia? Maybe that's why John became estranged from his father - blaming him for the circumstances leading up to his mother's death, but himself for not being able to actually stop it?

                                It could also explain why he has an ambivalent attitude to money, and the family business, and shunned it to join the Air Force, where protecting/saving people is one of their core beliefs?

                                Perhaps that's a bit too Bruce Wayne though.
                                That is certainly a very different scenario than the other ideas we've considered thus far, but yeah, it's probably a bit too WHAM! BAM! comic-bookish.

                                Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                                Yeah, and all we got out of it were a few lines tacked on to the end of an episode. EPIC FAIL
                                *snorts*

                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                Thank you for making that connection. That was another case of TPTW telling us something instead of showing us. I would love to have seen John continuing to mention rescuing her to Sam or have heard something about yet another plan of his that didn't get approval and the frustrated look on his face or to have seen him act all stoic and then go into his quarters and throw something. Joe would have too from his recent remarks about the situation but no, they had to waste time on trivial things like giving Carter a fruit basket and forget the best leader they ever had.
                                'Trivial things' is right. Having John blow up and throw something in his quarters, or maybe go down to the firing range and obsessively shred targets would've been nice to see. Anything to show his continued frustration with the lack of movement in getting a rescue attempt going would've been more appropriate than the damn fruit basket.

                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                But at least after TMC we got an even darker John. Wasn't it in BAMSR, which was the next ep, that he learned about Teyla's pregnancy? That must have sent him even further down the road of feeling like he was losing control. But his distraction with trying to rescue Elizabeth might explain why she was able to carry on a relationship that Ronon knew all about but John didn't. He just simply was not paying attention to his team after losing Elizabeth.
                                Yup, it was BAMSR. I like how you characterized it as 'losing control,' because John really is someone who needs to feel like he's in control, needs his world carefully ordered (within reason, of course). Then his tunnel vision on Elizabeth has him blind to what else is going on around him, like Teyla's relationship with Kanaan and her pregnancy. And with Teyla herself distracted by her relationship and pregnancy, it falls to Ronon and Rodney to try to maintain continuity with their team.

                                Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                                *raises hand* Too left field. And I hate the characterization of every powerful businessman as being ruthless and evil. It's a hot button of mine. There was no indication that his dad was corrupt. But what could have happened was that he spent most of his time away from the family working and even when he was home he was closed up in his office or on the phone. John would have seen how lonely his mom was and both he and his brother would have felt the lack of their dad's attention. Maybe when whatever happened to John's mom, his dad was away on business and John felt like the man of the house when he was gone. But somehow he failed to protect his mom or wasn't there when she died and he felt guilty.
                                Now this, I can see.

                                Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                                It made it seem like no treal thought at all had been given towards rescuing Weir. Even the convo in Reuinion didn't make sense - it'd been what, a couple of weeks? since Carter had left then come back. Surely if they were going to do anything at all, it'd have to be straight away.
                                After what Joe told me last November about them not even wanting Torri back, I'd say that was exactly what happened.

                                Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                                I wasn't meaning Patrick was evil, merely one of his clients was a bit desperate. A bit like how those guys picked up Hammond's grandkids back in s4? and took them for a ride (so that he'd leave) except it all went a bit wrong. While powerful businessmen can be a bit 'that way', it doesn't necessarily follow that they have to be. There are many philanthropists out there, perhaps that's why John doesn't seem bothered by money
                                Ah. I suppose that's plausible.

                                Originally posted by KrisRussel View Post
                                *points up* Did anyone see the fic I posted?
                                I think it got buried under the other discussion. Plus it's the weekend, and a lot of us are not here as much to be able to see things right away. Go read Kris's fic, everyone!
                                (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                                Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

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