Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

They certainly could have succeeded with Sparky as a tragic ship. But even after all the fan outpouring of excitement and approval after the hug, they stubbornly stuck with their original idea. I don't know what to say about people who just refuse to accept fan approval. Again my lack of logic alarms were going off big time. If you do something that your audience loves and they tell you so, why would you not want to please them more?

Precisely. At the end of the day, this is a business, the business of entertaining the masses. And rule number one of any successful business is: Don't piss off your customers by withholding what they want.

And voting on the episode title...so far is What Dreams May Come 3 and Quietus 4. Who hasn't voted?

Has Anuna voted yet?

Essentially "To Be or Not to Be" muses on whether it makes sense to kill yourself and why we don't do it, when life can stink so badly at points. He basically comes to the conclusion that because nobody knows what lies after death, we're afraid to kill ourselves if we're of rational mind. It's the unknown after death--punishment in an afterlife, or perhaps no afterlife, which we fear the most, even for all the burdens of life.

The line "What dreams may come" refers to the potential afterlifes that might exist after death (if you want to see a cool, Dante-esque movie, there is a movie titled the same with Robin Williams that has stunning visuals). It is quite pertinent to what Elizabeth suffered in the number of lives she lived through prior to this. I really like this title, it's one of my favorite lines from the soliloquy, I just think Quietus is more pertinent to the episode, because WDMC has nothing really to do with what the people in the city are doing to fight through the lockdown.

You know, I had been considering changing my vote to 'What Dreams May Come,' but after reading your analysis, I think it might actually work better as the title for 'House of Mirrors.' I originally chose HoM as a play on the fact that each of Elizabeth's duplicates is essentially a mirror of her, and a reference to her struggle to integrate all the memories of her duplicates with her own personal memories, which is the focus of that episode. WDMC evokes this same idea, and expands on it with the implication that through Elizabeth, all of her duplicates will live on in her. So I would be in favor of changing HoM to WDMC.

The 'quietus' referred to is closer to the dictionary meaning--quietus here refers to a discharge or release from life. I liked Quietus because of all three dictionary definitions and how they can play into the context of this episode:

1.a finishing stroke; anything that effectually ends or settles: this can refer to both Elizabeth's desire at one point to end her own life to prevent problems for anyone else; it can also allude to Rodney's/Jeannie's 'curing' Elizabeth and the Pegasus of the problem of the replicator nanites. After this episode, essentially the replicators are no more (though the nanites will be around to affect various things.) But this episode is the 'quietus' of the Asuran replicators.

2. discharge or release from life.: At some point in this episode, Elizabeth's desire to die becomes the pivotal part of the episode.

3. a period of retirement or inactivity: Can refer to everyone who is trapped during the lockdown. They are all stuck in a 'quietus' where they have to wait for the problem to be fixed.

I didn't choose quietus because of the Latin, though it does happen to be Latin. More because it's a pertinent word in the soliloquy. But it gets my vote because I think it fits best.

And this just reinforces my first instinct to choose Quietus. It serves as the end of this phase of the storyline, and a short pause in the overall storyline before moving to the next phase (the run-up to HoM).

[Eri13]

Considering I don't even know how to pronounce Quietus ... it sounds wrong more than it sounds right.

I'll have to opt for What Dreams May Come.

Kwhy-ee-tus. That's how it's pronounced.

[Eri13]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Precisely. At the end of the day, this is a business, the business of entertaining the masses. And rule number one of any successful business is: Don't piss off your customers by withholding what they want.

Has Anuna voted yet?

You know, I had been considering changing my vote to 'What Dreams May Come,' but after reading your analysis, I think it might actually work better as the title for 'House of Mirrors.' I originally chose HoM as a play on the fact that each of Elizabeth's duplicates is essentially a mirror of her, and a reference to her struggle to integrate all the memories of her duplicates with her own personal memories, which is the focus of that episode. WDMC evokes this same idea, and expands on it with the implication that through Elizabeth, all of her duplicates will live on in her. So I would be in favor of changing HoM to WDMC.

And this just reinforces my first instinct to choose Quietus. It serves as the end of this phase of the storyline, and a short pause in the overall storyline before moving to the next phase (the run-up to HoM).

Y'know, I was actually thinking "What Dreams May Come" would have been a fun alternate title for House of Mirrors! Just because I thought it fit well with that episode. Plus, it's a neat parallel to 1) a final use of the TBoNTB soliloquy and 2) Teyla's self-exploration episode, where she's going through a similar experience, "Box of Dreams." It's a beautiful title and is such a nice way to wrap up the Elizabeth arc, which is what your episode does.

[Falcon Horus]

Kwhy-ee-tus. That's how it's pronounced.

From now on it's not Quietus, it's Kwhy-ee-tus for me...

Thanks for the phonetic spelling. Much appreciated.

[Anuna]

I'm here, I'm here! *waves* What do I have to vote on?

[Southern Red]

I'm here, I'm here! *waves* What do I have to vote on?

A title for the episode formerly titled Lockdown. Choices below.

Dead Stop
- Breaking Point o Breakpoint
Out of the Shell
Mindscape
Impenetrable
Outreach

To Sleep No More
- What Dreams May Come 4
- Quietus 4
- The Undiscover'd country

I, Nanobot (or I, Nanite)
- Cold Reboot
- Critical Error
- Control-Alt-Delete
- TakeOver (or Nanite TakeOver)

It's down to Quietus vs. What Dreams May Come. We need the tie to be broken. Go back a few pages for the rundown on why each works. Thanks.

[Anuna]

I vote for "What dreams may come".

[Anuna]

Don't know if any of you is reading this fic, title "Return":
- http://www.sheppardweir.com/fanfics/...y.php?sid=1626

In the last chapters John is captured and heavily tortured. I think it might be of inspiration for the SS6 torture episode.

I'd prefer staying away from stories similar to the episode idea. I don't want to copy people. I took a quick look and apart from the fact that this author could use a beta reader, I think my take on characters is slightly different.

[Scary Kitty]

So that's 5 for "What Dreams May Come" and 4 for "Quietus."

Damn, and I was hoping I'd get to change "House of Mirrors" to "What Dreams May Come."

Wait a second. Has drew voted yet? This is her episode.

[Anuna]

So that's 5 for "What Dreams May Come" and 4 for "Quietus."

Damn, and I was hoping I'd get to change "House of Mirrors" to "What Dreams May Come."

Wait a second. Has drew voted yet? This is her episode.

Um, if WDMC has five votes, you do get to change the episode title into "What dreams may come" ? *scratches head*

[Probie]

Quick hello!
Hope everyone is fine.

My vote: "What Dreams May Come"

[nephtys59]

I'd prefer staying away from stories similar to the episode idea. I don't want to copy people. I took a quick look and apart from the fact that this author could use a beta reader, I think my take on characters is slightly different.

I wasn't talking about copying, obviously. I was talking about taking some inspiration to write a better episode.
Sometimes we can learn from other stories facets we didn't take in consideration or simply avoid mistakes.
As to your take on characters, it's normal every writer has a personal one and I would be disappointed if it wouldn't be like that.
I perceived John and Elizabeth in my own way and I'm sure it's not exactly the same as yours

[Southern Red]

Okay, since we have such a close vote I went back over the voting and found I had made an error. Someone please check behind me but I have the votes like this:

Quietus

Eri
SR
SK
pkprd
Erin

WDMC

Reiko
gateraid
nephtys (changed from Breakpoint)
FH
Anuna
Probie

SMB indicated she was first for Quietus but was leaning toward WDMC and asked for the further analysis. Are you sticking with Quietus or changing? Because it will mean a tie or we go with WDMC. Also last chance to change your vote.

And since this is Drew's episode, we really need her input.

[Scary Kitty]

Um, if WDMC has five votes, you do get to change the episode title into "What dreams may come" ? *scratches head*

No, we're voting on the final title for episode 12 (drew's episode, currently with the working title "Lockdown"), not on my episode (currently titled "House of Mirrors"). But I'd like to rename HoM to WDMC as it works with the story and continues the 'to be or not to be' speech from Hamlet theme that's been running with the storyline since Season 4.

[SMB_BOOKS]

Okay, since we have such a close vote I went back over the voting and found I had made an error. Someone please check behind me but I have the votes like this:

Quietus

Eri
SR
SK
pkprd
Erin

WDMC

Reiko
gateraid
nephtys (changed from Breakpoint)
FH
Anuna
Probie

SMB indicated she was first for Quietus but was leaning toward WDMC and asked for the further analysis. Are you sticking with Quietus or changing? Because it will mean a tie or we go with WDMC. Also last chance to change your vote.

And since this is Drew's episode, we really need her input.

First - thanks to Reiko and Eri13 for the further explanation on the two title favorites.

Second - this is a toughie, but I think I'm going to stick with Quietus

Third - I do think drew should weigh in as the eppy author

Fourth - I like the idea of HOM becoming WDMC but also okay with HOM staying HOM