Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Eri13]

You betcha!

Definitely liking this. I'd go for the "known but rare" option, so the characters can get on with solving the problem without the story getting bogged down by everyone trying to figure out what the problem is.

Keller and Carson going out into the woods to find the cure? Love it! Should anyone else (either Athosian or teammates from Atlantis) be going with them?

That? I LOVE that! After what Teyla told Keller about Kanaan in Missing, being a 'natural leader,' having him take on some new responsibilities with the Pegasus Coalition would give him a new avenue to fulfill the potential that Teyla sees in him.

*cracks up*

All the Athosians were supposed to be on Atlantis in Hide and Seek. In fact, I seem to recall seeing one in Suspicion that looked kind of like Kanaan; it wasn't Patrick, but then, it has been a few years.

Oooh, yes to all of this! It'll really let Ronon and John use their mad survival skillz (hey, if we're going with the 'Sheppard as former Special Ops' theory, well, he'd have gone through SERE, and that's some really rough, brutal experience to have).

You don't subliminally ship Carson/Teyla? Yeah. Suuuuure you don't.

This characterization for Kanaan is awesome! Once he does get accustomed to Teyla's teammates and friends on Atlantis, I can definitely see him being part of the John-Rodney-Ronon band of brothers thing they've got going.

redshirt Athosians?

I'm enjoying the discussion on themes for this episode and wanted to pop in and say I really like the "leaving Atlantis stuff" behind idea. Teyla, however, is going to have to do some pretty hard convincing to get the boys to leave their toys behind. And, this might make the mutating athosian stealing Ronon's stunner not do-able now?

And, I also come seeking knowledge. I'm craving some "post dinner scene" from "the return pt. 1" fic. I remember reading (a really, really, really long time ago) a fic in this setting. I know there are a ton of them out there, and all I can remember is it being cold outside, J & E leave the restaurant together (can't remember whose car). I think E is wearing J's coat, they brush hands in the car. That is literally all I can remember of the fic. How pathetic is that? I remember enjoying it though..... So, I'll take recs on your favorite fic that tags the dinner scene.

Well, let's see. Perhaps Teyla (or maybe not Teyla--Halling? He always had a hang-up with Earth's more violent ways) agrees to allow them 'stunner' weapons (aka non-lethal) but nothing that can kill in the first shot. That way John can be satisfied (plus, it'll be funny to see them carrying Wraith stunners).

Despite Ronon's gun having a lethal setting his reaction is 'it stuns' and no one wants to argue semantics with him.

But the jumpers stay behind (so no one can get off) and Halling/the Athosians basically tell the Lanteans to 'deal with it' because this is their ceremony.

And it's nice--get this, Reiko!--parallelism to when Weir basically told Halling that, despite respecting his beliefs, she couldn't honor them because Atlantis did things different. Well, here, Halling is basically stripping the Lanteans of their basic ways of doing things and telling them 'deal' you're on our turf now. Accept it, or you can't come.

But much more nicely.

[Anuna]

Eri, i think that is a great ida. Halling does seem like Athosian traditionalist (and one could believe that Teyla started doing many things in Lanteans way, and maybe we could see her and Halling discussing the whole point of holding one tradition or another). How about traditions being the undercurring motive of this episode? I love when there's something that wraps up the whole story like the basic theme of it. And I love the human touch to the stories and within it all we can have our heroes talk about traditions their families held while they were kids. Backstories! Aaaand maybe there was a Lantean tradition Elizabeth had started and you can just imagine John making that woobie face. (One of their traditions was for her to see them through the gate and wait for them, standing on that inner balcony overlooking the gate, as they came back). I know it's pure fanon, but for me this is Elizabth and John tradition

Anyway... my two cents. My head is still not clear. I hate having a cold and a stuffed nose.

[SGLAB]

Hey there sweetie. I can look it over.

Thanks Anuna, if you want to PM your email to me I'll send you what I've got.

[Southern Red]

Hm. We have all episodes planned out, don't we? Maybethis is something we could save for season 7 because there has to be one and in S7 Sparky should finally get together for realz. *grins*

Yeah, I like that. We have a number of S7 ideas. This and the lake planet idea are both good ones.

redshirt Athosians?



Well, let's see. Perhaps Teyla (or maybe not Teyla--Halling? He always had a hang-up with Earth's more violent ways) agrees to allow them 'stunner' weapons (aka non-lethal) but nothing that can kill in the first shot. That way John can be satisfied (plus, it'll be funny to see them carrying Wraith stunners).

Despite Ronon's gun having a lethal setting his reaction is 'it stuns' and no one wants to argue semantics with him.

But the jumpers stay behind (so no one can get off) and Halling/the Athosians basically tell the Lanteans to 'deal with it' because this is their ceremony.

And it's nice--get this, Reiko!--parallelism to when Weir basically told Halling that, despite respecting his beliefs, she couldn't honor them because Atlantis did things different. Well, here, Halling is basically stripping the Lanteans of their basic ways of doing things and telling them 'deal' you're on our turf now. Accept it, or you can't come.

But much more nicely.

I think I'm having a senior moment...shut up. But wasn't New Athos accessible by gate like in Missing? Or are we resettling the Athosians again? *admits to being confused* So jumpers wouldn't factor into the episode. We'd have to break the gate somehow.

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Lazy Sunday!

I was watching an episode of House and I was wondering why TPTB never had the idea to do an episode like this. It was an episode focus on Cuddy and her job. I would love to see an episode like this with Elizabeth. Follow her during a day. We would see how she handles conflicts, how she negociates, see all the pressure on her shoulders. I know many fans of SGA would be upset by an episode like this because they don't like her but it would be interesting and show how strong she is.

I'd also like to see an episode like this eventually. And yeah, it'd have to be in S7.

That is one of my favorite House episodes. I thought of the same thing. We only got little snippets when she was dealing with the boys or when one of the crew stopped her to get something approved or whatnot. I also remember the scene at the end of Intruder when Radek was all enthusiastic to talk to her and Teyla could tell Elizabeth was a bit upset about something and told Radek he should wait a bit. That's one of the few times we saw the Teyla/Elizabeth connection. Other times also we saw that John was concerned about her overworking like in Sunday when he was glad Teyla was having lunch with her. What other times did he show concern over her except the obvious like in TRW?

There was that kind of wistful 'I know what you mean' he said in response to Rodney complaining about how Elizabeth wasn't answering her phone in The Return Part 1.

Hm. We have all episodes planned out, don't we? Maybethis is something we could save for season 7 because there has to be one and in S7 Sparky should finally get together for realz. *grins*

Oh, you betcha.

redshirt Athosians?

Cannon fodder...

Well, let's see. Perhaps Teyla (or maybe not Teyla--Halling? He always had a hang-up with Earth's more violent ways) agrees to allow them 'stunner' weapons (aka non-lethal) but nothing that can kill in the first shot. That way John can be satisfied (plus, it'll be funny to see them carrying Wraith stunners).

Despite Ronon's gun having a lethal setting his reaction is 'it stuns' and no one wants to argue semantics with him.

But the jumpers stay behind (so no one can get off) and Halling/the Athosians basically tell the Lanteans to 'deal with it' because this is their ceremony.

And it's nice--get this, Reiko!--parallelism to when Weir basically told Halling that, despite respecting his beliefs, she couldn't honor them because Atlantis did things different. Well, here, Halling is basically stripping the Lanteans of their basic ways of doing things and telling them 'deal' you're on our turf now. Accept it, or you can't come.

But much more nicely.

Perfect solution! After all, New Athos, like the rest of Pegasus, is still vulnerable to attack by the Wraith (or someone else), and it would be foolish to go anywhere without some way to defend oneself.

Eri, i think that is a great ida. Halling does seem like Athosian traditionalist (and one could believe that Teyla started doing many things in Lanteans way, and maybe we could see her and Halling discussing the whole point of holding one tradition or another). How about traditions being the undercurring motive of this episode? I love when there's something that wraps up the whole story like the basic theme of it. And I love the human touch to the stories and within it all we can have our heroes talk about traditions their families held while they were kids. Backstories! Aaaand maybe there was a Lantean tradition Elizabeth had started and you can just imagine John making that woobie face. (One of their traditions was for her to see them through the gate and wait for them, standing on that inner balcony overlooking the gate, as they came back). I know it's pure fanon, but for me this is Elizabth and John tradition

Anyway... my two cents. My head is still not clear. I hate having a cold and a stuffed nose.

Eeee! Telling tales of their childhoods around the fire! Hey, maybe that could even be a part of the preparation for the ritual that the adult participants do the night before, or something...

I think I'm having a senior moment...shut up. But wasn't New Athos accessible by gate like in Missing? Or are we resettling the Athosians again? *admits to being confused* So jumpers wouldn't factor into the episode. We'd have to break the gate somehow.

I figured this was going to be set on New Athos, and yeah, they had a ground gate, so all they have to do is walk. Didn't someone suggest that our Athosian Wolfman pulls some of the crystals out of the DHD?

[Anuna]

Pulling crystals from DHD seems crucial for the plot, I think.

Mind you, I just saw Avatar (we sort of... got it), and the whole cultural differences idea, and this is 'our way' stuff is going through my head. I think this should be an episode where that question is addressed, which way is better. And sort of an answer to that particular question, in this setting, is adjustment to what the situation requires.

By the way, SR, I think you talked about Avatar once and compared Avatar ship with.... that other ship. You actually gave me an idea what to do in "Box of dreams", regarding that ship...

Spoilers for "Avatar":

Spoiler:

Jake decided to become one of the Na'vi. While my biggest beef with J/T is the lack of chemisrty, and the idea of that relationship comes across as not very belieavable, I still need a reason that explains why J/T doesn't work out in "Box of dreams" and it has to be something based in canon.

Avatar made me think of "Suspicion" where John chose sides. One of the things John will never do is cut his ties to Earth and his people. i believe that loyalty is one of his fundamental traits, and I believe his true devotion lies with expedition. Later it's Teyla who becomes a part of this expedition, so i could say it's her who possibly divides her loyalty and sticks with Lanteans because it's ultimately good for her own people. She never becomes one of the Lanteans, though, she keeps her own identity. I see their different cultural identities as the core of the whole issue - if I am going to address why they didn't get together, then it has to make sense within canon, and this, to me, does make sense. I don't want the episode tos erve the purpose of bashing J/T ship in any way, and being J/E biased the way I am, I'm asking for second opinion from you, guys

[Scary Kitty]

Pulling crystals from DHD seems crucial for the plot, I think.

Mind you, I just saw Avatar (we sort of... got it), and the whole cultural differences idea, and this is 'our way' stuff is going through my head. I think this should be an episode where that question is addressed, which way is better. And sort of an answer to that particular question, in this setting, is adjustment to what the situation requires.

By the way, SR, I think you talked about Avatar once and compared Avatar ship with.... that other ship. You actually gave me an idea what to do in "Box of dreams", regarding that ship...

Spoilers for "Avatar":

Spoiler:

Jake decided to become one of the Na'vi. While my biggest beef with J/T is the lack of chemisrty, and the idea of that relationship comes across as not very belieavable, I still need a reason that explains why J/T doesn't work out in "Box of dreams" and it has to be something based in canon.

Avatar made me think of "Suspicion" where John chose sides. One of the things John will never do is cut his ties to Earth and his people. i believe that loyalty is one of his fundamental traits, and I believe his true devotion lies with expedition. Later it's Teyla who becomes a part of this expedition, so i could say it's her who possibly divides her loyalty and sticks with Lanteans because it's ultimately good for her own people. She never becomes one of the Lanteans, though, she keeps her own identity. I see their different cultural identities as the core of the whole issue - if I am going to address why they didn't get together, then it has to make sense within canon, and this, to me, does make sense. I don't want the episode tos erve the purpose of bashing J/T ship in any way, and being J/E biased the way I am, I'm asking for second opinion from you, guys

I don't see a problem with pursuing that line of thinking in Box of Dreams at all. We've clearly seen in the series that both of them are very firmly set in their ways; they're open to new ideas and other ways to a point, but there are lines they will not cross. Those lines aren't close enough for there to be the kind of compromise that's necessary for the ship to work on a permanent basis. I say go for it.

[Southern Red]

Pulling crystals from DHD seems crucial for the plot, I think.

Mind you, I just saw Avatar (we sort of... got it), and the whole cultural differences idea, and this is 'our way' stuff is going through my head. I think this should be an episode where that question is addressed, which way is better. And sort of an answer to that particular question, in this setting, is adjustment to what the situation requires.

By the way, SR, I think you talked about Avatar once and compared Avatar ship with.... that other ship. You actually gave me an idea what to do in "Box of dreams", regarding that ship...

Spoilers for "Avatar":

Spoiler:

Jake decided to become one of the Na'vi. While my biggest beef with J/T is the lack of chemisrty, and the idea of that relationship comes across as not very belieavable, I still need a reason that explains why J/T doesn't work out in "Box of dreams" and it has to be something based in canon.

Avatar made me think of "Suspicion" where John chose sides. One of the things John will never do is cut his ties to Earth and his people. i believe that loyalty is one of his fundamental traits, and I believe his true devotion lies with expedition. Later it's Teyla who becomes a part of this expedition, so i could say it's her who possibly divides her loyalty and sticks with Lanteans because it's ultimately good for her own people. She never becomes one of the Lanteans, though, she keeps her own identity. I see their different cultural identities as the core of the whole issue - if I am going to address why they didn't get together, then it has to make sense within canon, and this, to me, does make sense. I don't want the episode tos erve the purpose of bashing J/T ship in any way, and being J/E biased the way I am, I'm asking for second opinion from you, guys

I second that "go for it". It has to be explained in a credible canon way. We can't have any nonsense about one of them being in love and the other not or her hooking up with Kanaan because she thought John didn't care about her or John being jealous and pining over her. We admit that there was an attraction. It was largely physical and early in their relationship before they became teammates and friends but as in so many instances when they got to know each other they realized it never would work. Neither of them as was proven very strongly in Return I can give up their people for the other. That is canon and cannot be disputed. We handle it without any bashing or nastiness of any sort and there shouldn't be any complaints.

[Scary Kitty]

I second that "go for it". It has to be explained in a credible canon way. We can't have any nonsense about one of them being in love and the other not or her hooking up with Kanaan because she thought John didn't care about her or John being jealous and pining over her. We admit that there was an attraction. It was largely physical and early in their relationship before they became teammates and friends but as in so many instances when they got to know each other they realized it never would work. Neither of them as was proven very strongly in Return I can give up their people for the other. That is canon and cannot be disputed. We handle it without any bashing or nastiness of any sort and there shouldn't be any complaints.

Exactly. No wild soap opera-style twists and turns. Just realistic human drama between friends and teammates.

[gateraid]

I was watching an episode of House and I was wondering why TPTB never had the idea to do an episode like this. It was an episode focus on Cuddy and her job. I would love to see an episode like this with Elizabeth. Follow her during a day. We would see how she handles conflicts, how she negociates, see all the pressure on her shoulders. I know many fans of SGA would be upset by an episode like this because they don't like her but it would be interesting and show how strong she is.

To be fair to TPTB, they did an ep like this with O'Neill in SG1 s8 - Zero Hour? It's actually quite a good one, but it pissed me off at the time that they never did it with Hammond/Don, especially when in the previous few years RDA had been trying to cut down his hours.

I'd have thought it would be relatively easy to do it with TH, given that a fair bit (relative to the rest of the cast) of her stuff was done with second unit. As much as I love Weir, it'd end up like BIS, which I found to be a snooze-fest. The more likely way it'd have played out would be for Weir to be on a mission and come under attack - not really a typical day.

If we're talking hypotheticals, I'd have liked to see a 'swap' ep. Switch Weir & Shep, have him mind the store & her head off world. That would've never happened though

Yeah, I like that. We have a number of S7 ideas. This and the lake planet idea are both good ones.



I think I'm having a senior moment...shut up. But wasn't New Athos accessible by gate like in Missing? Or are we resettling the Athosians again? *admits to being confused* So jumpers wouldn't factor into the episode. We'd have to break the gate somehow.

Perish the thought If its TR planet, then you can step through the gate. As for the rest of the discussion, my trying to participate in it would be a massive senior moment as I am so far behind the eight ball it'd be impossible to catch up

I second that "go for it". It has to be explained in a credible canon way. We can't have any nonsense about one of them being in love and the other not or her hooking up with Kanaan because she thought John didn't care about her or John being jealous and pining over her. We admit that there was an attraction. It was largely physical and early in their relationship before they became teammates and friends but as in so many instances when they got to know each other they realized it never would work. Neither of them as was proven very strongly in Return I can give up their people for the other. That is canon and cannot be disputed. We handle it without any bashing or nastiness of any sort and there shouldn't be any complaints.

Can we post that on the main page ? It's an open letter on how to co-exist amicably within the GW community

[Scary Kitty]

To be fair to TPTB, they did an ep like this with O'Neill in SG1 s8 - Zero Hour? It's actually quite a good one, but it pissed me off at the time that they never did it with Hammond/Don, especially when in the previous few years RDA had been trying to cut down his hours.

I'd have thought it would be relatively easy to do it with TH, given that a fair bit (relative to the rest of the cast) of her stuff was done with second unit. As much as I love Weir, it'd end up like BIS, which I found to be a snooze-fest. The more likely way it'd have played out would be for Weir to be on a mission and come under attack - not really a typical day.

On the other hand, every episode, it seems like there's some sort of mayhem and team members in jeopardy... so perhaps that is typical for Atlantis.

If we're talking hypotheticals, I'd have liked to see a 'swap' ep. Switch Weir & Shep, have him mind the store & her head off world. That would've never happened though

Mainly because TPTW didn't want to put in any work giving Torri good material.

Perish the thought If its TR planet, then you can step through the gate. As for the rest of the discussion, my trying to participate in it would be a massive senior moment as I am so far behind the eight ball it'd be impossible to catch up

*chuckles*

Can we post that on the main page ? It's an open letter on how to co-exist amicably within the GW community

Unfortunately, those who really need to read it would likely ignore it, so I doubt it would do any good.

[Probie]

It's official: French people are weak.

Spoiler:

A french Tv bought SGU. Good news it's a pay channel. This show has very bad reputation here so rates will not be good.

End of OT.

Hi everyone.

[nephtys59]

It's official: French people are weak.

Spoiler:

A french Tv bought SGU. Good news it's a pay channel. This show has very bad reputation here so rates will not be good.

In Italy SGU is airing on a pay channel too. And first reviews are not good. It was expected.

End of OT, too.

Hope everybody is ok.

[Anuna]

Guys, i'm wondering did we cover everything we needed to in our "First year" discussion.

[Southern Red]

To be fair to TPTB, they did an ep like this with O'Neill in SG1 s8 - Zero Hour? It's actually quite a good one, but it pissed me off at the time that they never did it with Hammond/Don, especially when in the previous few years RDA had been trying to cut down his hours.

I'd have thought it would be relatively easy to do it with TH, given that a fair bit (relative to the rest of the cast) of her stuff was done with second unit. As much as I love Weir, it'd end up like BIS, which I found to be a snooze-fest. The more likely way it'd have played out would be for Weir to be on a mission and come under attack - not really a typical day.

If we're talking hypotheticals, I'd have liked to see a 'swap' ep. Switch Weir & Shep, have him mind the store & her head off world. That would've never happened though




Perish the thought If its TR planet, then you can step through the gate. As for the rest of the discussion, my trying to participate in it would be a massive senior moment as I am so far behind the eight ball it'd be impossible to catch up



Can we post that on the main page ? It's an open letter on how to co-exist amicably within the GW community

Are you trying to start a war? Do you have any idea what the reaction to that would be? *laughs hysterically* It would be fun to watch though. We are the only group on here that I know of that actually pays any attention to canon whatsoever. LOL

It's official: French people are weak.

Spoiler:

A french Tv bought SGU. Good news it's a pay channel. This show has very bad reputation here so rates will not be good.

End of OT.

Hi everyone.

*waves* Hi my daughter. Do you feel like coming to work today? I'm sure there will be lots of phone calls to return.

In Italy SGU is airing on a pay channel too. And first reviews are not good. It was expected.

End of OT, too.

Hope everybody is ok.

*waves*Sounds like the French and the Italians are smart.

Guys, i'm wondering did we cover everything we needed to in our "First year" discussion.

I'm wondering that too. I'm afraid I have been too preoccupied with RL and have neglected my showrunner duties. Thank God for Eri. I need to pull the discussion together and summarize. I'll do that later today.