Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[nephtys59]

Just rewatched Lost City of SG1 Season 7, to remember some things about the way Dr. Weir was at the very beginning. It's very strange to see the face of another actress (but the same Italian voice of SGA Dr. Weir). I'm so glad they chose Torri for the final role, I feel closer to her than to Jessica.

I was puzzled about one thing President Heyes said to her:
"I suppose your aversion to the military will be an issue."

and then the convo with Jackson explains why:

JACKSON: Yeah, someone who started their career as a political activist. Lobbying against the government spending on the military.
WEIR: And how I end up working for those I was criticising? I know, but I've decided that the best way to stop the proliferation of weapons is to try and end the need for them. So I'm going to be the voice of reason to whoever will listen.

She was a pacifist ... and surely "the voice of reason" in Atlantis.
But in the end her aversion to the military has not been a great issue, credit to Sheppard!

WEIR: I can't get used to being this far underground. I keep looking around for a window.

This is SO Elizabeth! And that's why she loved so much Atlantis and the Ocean around it

P.S.: Praclarush Taonas and Earth (Antartic) chairs were Ancient small outposts. I wonder if, in Pegasus galaxy, other outposts with chair and one ZPM could be found

[Irish Eyes]

All of these images can also tie into her departing scene in GITM. A bit of parallelism I find interesting in that scene, though, is how John can't lock eyes with her. Every other moment they share an intense, unbreakable stare, but here, he can't. We're so proud of our eye!sex moments, and I think either Joe or the directors knew that was a common thing, too. So rather than have that final shared stare, after just a second or two he looks away. Why? Is it because she doesn't look the same, or is it because this hurts him just too much to lose her again? Some strange combination of both? We'll never know, but for me it's a significant twist.

I think some of it is guilt. Deep down he believes it's her just because of some of the things he says during GITM. But once again Elizabeth is sacrificing herself for Atlantis and this time he has actually made the choice to let her even though there are other options. Usually there isn't time to consider something else or there just isn't anything else to consider.

Poor John.

[Scary Kitty]

Just rewatched Lost City of SG1 Season 7, to remember some things about the way Dr. Weir was at the very beginning. It's very strange to see the face of another actress (but the same Italian voice of SGA Dr. Weir). I'm so glad they chose Torri for the final role, I feel closer to her than to Jessica.

I was puzzled about one thing President Heyes said to her:
"I suppose your aversion to the military will be an issue."

and then the convo with Jackson explains why:

JACKSON: Yeah, someone who started their career as a political activist. Lobbying against the government spending on the military.
WEIR: And how I end up working for those I was criticising? I know, but I've decided that the best way to stop the proliferation of weapons is to try and end the need for them. So I'm going to be the voice of reason to whoever will listen.

She was a pacifist ... and surely "the voice of reason" in Atlantis.
But in the end her aversion to the military has not been a great issue, credit to Sheppard!

Perhaps not Sheppard's influence so much as simply being in the middle of the situation in Pegasus and seeing first-hand why there is sometimes a need for the military's involvement. Not to the point of the military taking over, of course, but when the diplomatic option doesn't work, well...

WEIR: I can't get used to being this far underground. I keep looking around for a window.

This is SO Elizabeth! And that's why she loved so much Atlantis and the Ocean around it

Heehee!

P.S.: Praclarush Taonas and Earth (Antartic) chairs were Ancient small outposts. I wonder if, in Pegasus galaxy, other outposts with chair and one ZPM could be found

I think that's certainly possible. After all, they did find another Ancient city-ship like Atlantis. Why not?

I think some of it is guilt. Deep down he believes it's her just because of some of the things he says during GITM. But once again Elizabeth is sacrificing herself for Atlantis and this time he has actually made the choice to let her even though there are other options. Usually there isn't time to consider something else or there just isn't anything else to consider.

Poor John.

[Erin87]

Perhaps not Sheppard's influence so much as simply being in the middle of the situation in Pegasus and seeing first-hand why there is sometimes a need for the military's involvement. Not to the point of the military taking over, of course, but when the diplomatic option doesn't work, well...

I didn't make this, but I think it applies very well.

Spoiler:

So what's the front on the custom banner for the comm? I volunteer my services for making one if that sounds agreeable to all.

[Scary Kitty]

I didn't make this, but I think it applies very well.

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/v.../Diplomacy.png

Bwahahahaha! That's brilliant!

So what's the front on the custom banner for the comm? I volunteer my services for making one if that sounds agreeable to all.

Hmm, I don't think anyone's made a decision yet. But I certainly don't have any objection to you giving the banner a go.

[Southern Red]

I didn't make this, but I think it applies very well.

Spoiler:

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/Erin87_photos/stargate/Diplomacy.png

So what's the front on the custom banner for the comm? I volunteer my services for making one if that sounds agreeable to all.

You have my official go ahead. Just post it here and we'll get the approval of the majority.

[Reiko]

I have to say that I think that this is one of the most intellectually fierce threads on GW. Really.

And if you want to get all crazy symbolic, you may note that this is also one image John associates with Elizabeth--her tied directly to the gate, as seen in his own hallucination--she's framed by the wormhole and is the last to leave the city

Very interesting analysis, Eri! (The whole post, not just this quoted bit). The bolded portion of the quoted statement above happened to pop out at me, though, in relation to your entire post. The long, lingering image of Elizabeth's expression framed by the stargate is used three times within the series (as I recall): Rising, The Return, and finally, Ghost in the Machine. Has the same thing been used for any other character? I don't think so, at least not that I can recall.

So, perhaps Elizabeth's fate = fate of Atlantis? That is what happens it GitM, after all.

It's not quite the same balcony... but I believe they are part of the same set.

Balcony from Rising

Balcony from EatG

Look at the bottom edge of the Rising balcony, right under Elizabeth and John's feet. Then look at the edge of that upper balcony in the top right hand corner of the EatG pic. It sure looks like that's the Rising balcony up there.

Ah, thanks. I don't own season 5 on DVD and don't have the episode downloaded so screencaps really do help ... I'll look through more screencaps before I post my (somewhat contrived) analysis.

I think the repeated scenes idea are what's called "parallel scenes". This type of writing is common throughout literature, particularly Shakespeare. Here is a great example from Romeo and Juliet. Juliet first and then Romeo with their face in a basin of water. That sounds like the repeated balcony and the puddle scenes.

That's a very cool article there and that's exactly what I'm referring to. Parallelism.

They're all down to the short sleeves now. I'm waiting until the shirts come off.

The fact that he can't maintain eye contact with her at the end of GitM definitely raises some questions... I'd say it's probably a combination, and I'd also add that maybe a part of him still has doubts as to whether or not it's really her. Whether it's because he really doesn't believe it, or it's because he doesn't want to believe it... *shrugs*

I personally thought that when John was unable to meet her gazed it added to the whole finality of the scene. Elizabeth really isn't coming back (as TPTB saw it). John always meets her eyes, but he isn't this time. I don't know if John the character actually knows it (perhaps subconciously -- I'm sure he always thinks of rescuing her post-GitM, though), but TPTB notes it, so it's their little way of telling the audience "it's over".

Good thinking... I didn't think that far but I did want it to be the beginning of my teaser. I wanted to go back to where it all started to where it ended for some of us, and then go from there. When I heard the music (opening theme of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles) I had a clear vision of what I wanted, and the three lines of text were the first things that sprung alive in my mind. And then the images that I wanted followed quite easily.

Well, you were thinking along the same lines of what I was thinking!

I didn't make this, but I think it applies very well.

Spoiler:

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv132/Erin87_photos/stargate/Diplomacy.png

That's great!

[Scary Kitty]

I have to say that I think that this is one of the most intellectually fierce threads on GW. Really.

All part of what makes us the sanest thread on GW.

Very interesting analysis, Eri! (The whole post, not just this quoted bit). The bolded portion of the quoted statement above happened to pop out at me, though, in relation to your entire post. The long, lingering image of Elizabeth's expression framed by the stargate is used three times within the series (as I recall): Rising, The Return, and finally, Ghost in the Machine. Has the same thing been used for any other character? I don't think so, at least not that I can recall.

As SR noted, there's one more of these images, in John's mindfrak scenario in Progeny. And I don't believe that particular image has been used for any of the other characters, either. Another Weirism!

So, perhaps Elizabeth's fate = fate of Atlantis? That is what happens it GitM, after all.

I do so love that analogy! But then, I've always thought of Elizabeth as the heart of Atlantis.

I personally thought that when John was unable to meet her gazed it added to the whole finality of the scene. Elizabeth really isn't coming back (as TPTB saw it). John always meets her eyes, but he isn't this time. I don't know if John the character actually knows it (perhaps subconciously -- I'm sure he always thinks of rescuing her post-GitM, though), but TPTB notes it, so it's their little way of telling the audience "it's over".

*sticks fingers in ears and starts singing loudly*

[SMB_BOOKS]

Just popping in quickly to drop off some Torri news - she's going to be in the play "Much Ado About Nothing".................

http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/...36321_20100212

Even though I won't ever be able to go see it, I'm super excited for Torri! YAY!

And, yesterday's foodfest sent me into a carbohydrate induced stupor for the afternoon and evening.....still a little sluggish.....time to start drinking coffee!

[Fionnait]

Just popping in quickly to drop off some Torri news - she's going to be in the play "Much Ado About Nothing".................

http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/...36321_20100212

Even though I won't ever be able to go see it, I'm super excited for Torri! YAY!

Yeah, Shakespeare! Go, Torri!

[nephtys59]

Just popping in quickly to drop off some Torri news - she's going to be in the play "Much Ado About Nothing".................

http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/...36321_20100212

Even though I won't ever be able to go see it, I'm super excited for Torri! YAY!

YAY!!! Go Torri Go!!!

[Southern Red]

I have to say that I think that this is one of the most intellectually fierce threads on GW. Really.



Very interesting analysis, Eri! (The whole post, not just this quoted bit). The bolded portion of the quoted statement above happened to pop out at me, though, in relation to your entire post. The long, lingering image of Elizabeth's expression framed by the stargate is used three times within the series (as I recall): Rising, The Return, and finally, Ghost in the Machine. Has the same thing been used for any other character? I don't think so, at least not that I can recall.

So, perhaps Elizabeth's fate = fate of Atlantis? That is what happens it GitM, after all.



Ah, thanks. I don't own season 5 on DVD and don't have the episode downloaded so screencaps really do help ... I'll look through more screencaps before I post my (somewhat contrived) analysis.



That's a very cool article there and that's exactly what I'm referring to. Parallelism.







I personally thought that when John was unable to meet her gazed it added to the whole finality of the scene. Elizabeth really isn't coming back (as TPTB saw it). John always meets her eyes, but he isn't this time. I don't know if John the character actually knows it (perhaps subconciously -- I'm sure he always thinks of rescuing her post-GitM, though), but TPTB notes it, so it's their little way of telling the audience "it's over".



Well, you were thinking along the same lines of what I was thinking!



That's great!

Thanks to SK for pointing out the puddle/Eliz scene in Progeny.

I'd also add this bit from No Man's Land when she was recalled to Earth. Though it's not her expression in profile.

Spoiler:

I guess also you could present an argument for John being framed by the puddle on a number of occasions--Rising, first when he first enters the wormhole and later when he goes to Athos and turns to wave at her. I also believe there have been other times. I recall him being framed by the puddle while firing at a dart once. Was that Duet? Yes, here.

Spoiler:

I'm betting there are other times also. I'll think later.

If those are the only two characters, then it solidifies their connection not only to Atlantis but to each other. Hello Shakespeare, you 'da man buddy.

And on John not being able to meet her eyes in the final final scene. How many times did they turn to each other in a moment of crisis to get that reassurance that they were doing the right thing, to make a decision without having to discuss it verbally or just to get a feeling a being centered? When Franibeth walked through that event horizon John knew that at last the bond was broken and he had nobody left to give him that feeling of calm strength. His whole world was turned upside down and hope was lost. But John like he buried it and just soldiered on. This was a turning point for him and I think he came as close there to being the Vegas!John that we'll ever see.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

Just popping in quickly to drop off some Torri news - she's going to be in the play "Much Ado About Nothing".................

http://losangeles.broadwayworld.com/...36321_20100212

Even though I won't ever be able to go see it, I'm super excited for Torri! YAY!

And, yesterday's foodfest sent me into a carbohydrate induced stupor for the afternoon and evening.....still a little sluggish.....time to start drinking coffee!

And it's in LA, too. I could go see it! *fangirl squeal*

I guess also you could present an argument for John being framed by the puddle on a number of occasions--Rising, first when he first enters the wormhole and later when he goes to Athos and turns to wave at her. I also believe there have been other times. I recall him being framed by the puddle while firing at a dart once. Was that Duet? Yes, here.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...-2x04_0135.jpg

I'm betting there are other times also. I'll think later.

If those are the only two characters, then it solidifies their connection not only to Atlantis but to each other. Hello Shakespeare, you 'da man buddy.

How did I not think of that? *headdesk*

There's that moment at the end of The Hive where Team Shep comes the gate... Ronon's head is in the shot, though it's mostly blocked by Elizabeth's head while she and John are having more eye!sex.

The moment when John comes through the gate in The Last Man. Maybe two, one when he winds up in future!Atlantis, and one when he returns. There's probably more.

And on John not being able to meet her eyes in the final final scene. How many times did they turn to each other in a moment of crisis to get that reassurance that they were doing the right thing, to make a decision without having to discuss it verbally or just to get a feeling a being centered? When Franibeth walked through that event horizon John knew that at last the bond was broken and he had nobody left to give him that feeling of calm strength. His whole world was turned upside down and hope was lost. But John like he buried it and just soldiered on. This was a turning point for him and I think he came as close there to being the Vegas!John that we'll ever see.

[pkprd869]

Hello sparkies. I've been busy with RL, but I decided to stop by. I promised some sparky Valentine's Day treats, but I finish up Monday morning, so I'll deliver them then. In the mean time, y'all can pick from a few songs for the story.

True Love Ways

We Belong Together (click play on the track list.)

Someone to Watch Over Me

Amazing

Which ever one y'all like I'll base the fic on.

[drewandian]

Hello sparkies. I've been busy with RL, but I decided to stop by. I promised some sparky Valentine's Day treats, but I finish up Monday morning, so I'll deliver them then. In the mean time, y'all can pick from a few songs for the story.

True Love Ways

We Belong Together (click play on the track list.)

Someone to Watch Over Me

Amazing

Which ever one y'all like I'll base the fic on.

this is a hard choice for me! I love Ritchie Valens....grew up with Aerosmith (and love that song) and "Someone to Watch Over Me"? only like the best song ever!

um....for Sparky? hmmmm...."Someone to Watch Over Me"....
*backs out of thread before she changes her mind*