Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[drewandian]

nephty would you like me to take a look at your fics? I've only seen a few eps of Enterprise but I could help you with the grammar and spelling....(I enjoy proof reading and editing...and getting sneak peeks at fic )

[nephtys59]

Thanks drewandian, that's very kind of you, at the moment here: FF.net you can find only a complete fic A/T and one which was meant to be the sequel but I never found the courage to finish it.
Now I'm so *taken* by ShepWeir that I feel like a vulcan of ideas for new fics about these two
I'd like to start with a short one, maybe during the weekend I'll find the time to write the story

[Southern Red]

Yep, that's about the reaction of my other UT friends.

The only thing I'd say about the vices argument is that as a military guy (and a commander), Shep would hold himself to a slightly stricter standard than most. On top of that, I could also see him thinking of what Elizabeth would think of him if he let himself slip into vices of that nature--of how disappointed she'd be in him, because she relied on him to treat Atlantis and its people as she did, that the expedition comes first and personal issues come second. I don't think he'd ever be able to live with himself if he felt he'd purposely failed her, even if the cause was rooted in losing her.

So for his 'vice' I could see him as SR described him in her fic, which is an innocuous way of letting go for a while. We have proof of that with some of the flirting moments we get with characters like Larrin. I can also see him as a guy who throws himself with abandon into doing his job. It's been mentioned before that he no longer goofs around with paperwork and such like he did when Elizabeth was 'the boss'. Plus, we see him do absolutely crazy things to protect his friends, people, and Atlantis (scaling Atlantis Tower, fighting with Michael on the top of it, jumping into Rodney's head, etc).

What distinguishes Vegas!John from our John is that our John has not given into the vices Vegas!John did, because he has a sense of purpose that Vegas!John did not. Both are suffering the effects of loss, and if our John had not had Atlantis to worry about, I could see him becoming Vegas!John. But he does have that responsibility, and purpose, and I think a conscience in what Elizabeth would have wanted of him. He still owes her his life, after all. In a way I think he won't let that gift she gave him--a second chance--go to waste easily. It's gotta be worth something.



My ears are burning right now with the obscenities flying around the Kiffin news, since our production team just got into the office. I'm going to snoop and see what else they're saying. *cheeky*

UT news: My son said his friend from Tennessee has had to be sedated. LOL
And yay on the snooping. Tidbits welcome.

Now, John's vices. It's true that John seemed to goof around less under Woolsey. I'm not so sure about Sam. We didn't get to see much of that but at times like in S&R he did seem to run over her a bit. Which brings me to the idea that I've seen come up here and there that John just ignored Elizabeth's authority, didn't respect her and did whatever he wanted because she had a crush on him and he knew he could get away with murder. Does anyone remember any clear evidence of that? Hot Zone? Wasn't he just as concerned about her as she was him? And didn't they both have valid points in their argument? Doesn't it all come down to the military situation/civilian situation there? What about in Return I when he gave everybody above average evaluations and she scolded him? Didn't it look like he was trying to please her with being on time with the paperwork? And didn't he look ridiculously happy when she praised him at first? So how could it be said that he didn't respect her? Frankly that whole argument baffles me. Is there clear evidence that he always got his way?

And I think being more efficient under Woolsey happened because he had so many ridiculous rules and was so OCD about everything. I always felt like Elizabeth's rather loose style of leadership was because she respected everyone there for being the best in their field and didn't feel the need to look over every shoulder. It didn't just apply to John. In fact she was harder on him at times because he was a loose cannon.

SR: Excellent fic. It's so sad but I love ansgt story.

Lane Kiffin? It's about football no?

nephty: I would like to see your stories. I can't help you or correct your english because I'm a stranger here.lol

Football, yes and you're better off not knowing. *pets pkprd*

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i must have missed a page cause im confused what are you guys talking about.

[Probie]

Thanks Probie

As to favourite fics, has anyone here read Keladry's fics on Command Dynamics?
Even if they're both smut, my favourites are "The Silent Truth" and "One Way Street"!

Don't know them. Need to read those stories even if the green of Command Dynamics hurts my little eyes.lol Annoying girl? Yes it's me.

Football, yes and you're better off not knowing. *pets pkprd*

After searching on the net, Lane Kiffin leaves Tennessee for Southern California. Students have many violent reactions. It seems to be a big problem for Football universe. I'm trying to understand but your world is a mistery for me.lol

i must have missed a page cause im confused what are you guys talking about.

I read all pages and I'm confused.lol

[Southern Red]

Don't know them. Need to read those stories even if the green of Command Dynamics hurts my little eyes.lol Annoying girl? Yes it's me.



After searching on the net, Lane Kiffin leaves Tennessee for Southern California. Students have many violent reactions. It seems to be a big problem for Football universe. I'm trying to understand but your world is a mistery for me.lol



I read all pages and I'm confused.lol

Green? CD is a puke yellow for me. ???

Don't try to understand the football world. It's a mystery even to those of us who have lived in it all their lives.

i must have missed a page cause im confused what are you guys talking about.

Forget the football talk. We're discussing John and what it would take to make him break and become like the Vegas!John.

And I asked if anyone thinks John did not respect Elizabeth or that he was able to get away with anything because she liked him too much.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

John Respected Elizabeth But the only thing that kinda got me was that whole " i have more respect for you than any other commanding officer i ever had" line John said to Carter in "Search and Rescue" So Does that mean He Respected her more than Elizabeth?

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

SR It was First Strike that he was Scolded by Elizabeth about the "Excellent and Above Averages"

[nephtys59]

Which brings me to the idea that I've seen come up here and there that John just ignored Elizabeth's authority, didn't respect her and did whatever he wanted because she had a crush on him and he knew he could get away with murder. Does anyone remember any clear evidence of that?

Sometimes I wonder if I watched a different Stargate ... and I watched it twice, first in Italian language and then in English, liking the original voices and dialogues much more than the translated ones.
In any case I *NEVER* thought John didn't respect Elizabeth.
There were times when they disagreed and times when John was so stubborn and reckless he just didn't want to listen to the voice of reason. And times when John was right and Elizabeth was wrong (she wasn't perfect and I liked it, I hate *perfect* people).
I remember their first argue during "Rising" ... she says: "I see your point. Now you see mine." To me, that says it all.
I like those kind of conflicts, if they lead to *learn* and *build* a better relationship, friendship or love or else it doesn't matter.

There's a moment at the end of season 3 which, to me, represents how much John cares about Elizabeth's opinion. She's not happy with the *first strike* agains the Asurans - transcript:

SHEPPARD: Look, I know you think we’re doing the wrong thing here, but, uh ...
WEIR: John ... (She stops and turns to face him. They look at each other for a long moment.) Good luck.
(She turns and walks into her office. John turns away, uncomfortable at going ahead with a mission which his expedition leader and friend does not approve of.)

He's uncomfortable. He values Elizabeth's opinion so much that he feels bad going on a mission she doesn't approve. He *respects* her and he started doing that long before that episode.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

He was a Loose Cannon but with time i think Elizabeth was able to Tame him and when she got left behind he start to take more risks (I.E. Hand to Hand with his Doppelganger, The whole tower climbing in Quarantine, The Fight Between Michael and John in The Prodigal (Which btw was my favorite John/Michael Scene cause we finally got to see John Go Hand to Hand with Him and that scene kicked a$$)

[nephtys59]

Don't know them. Need to read those stories even if the green of Command Dynamics hurts my little eyes.lol Annoying girl? Yes it's me.

First thing I did when I registered to Command Dynamics was change the preferences and select a different theme, now I read fics in black and white

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday! Hahahah!

First, to get the OT stuff out of the way...

Oh dear. Oh dear. I was just emailing my son about Kiffin and he asked what did my online friends think. Oh dear. It should get interesting when SK wakes up. But a bit of OT good news. They had massive lay offs at my son's company this week and he survived. WOOT!

Hooray for your son surviving the cuts, SR!

*snickers* Interesting is right! Tennessee students burning mattresses? Sheesh. Looks like the rumors of Norm Chow jumping ship from UCLA to return to USC may have been premature (bummer!). The splash page of the USC Athletics website has a nice big banner welcoming Lane back, with a link to watch his press conference at 4pm (Pacific Time).

Hey everyone!! I know I've been MIA for a while, but life's a b****h. Loving all your wonderful Sparky pics and fics!!! I'll hopefully be able to spend some quality time with you all come the weekend.

Welcome back, Tanie! Hope to see you around a little more!

I can see John becoming a micro-manager and driving Lorne and the Marines crazy. He goes beyond the usual measures to keep everybody safe, increases the training until they feel like they're in the Roman Legion, and questioning every risky decision everyone makes on missions. Ronon and Teyla are exasperated with him. Rodney tries to talk to him but he snaps at all of them. Finally they all go to Woolsey and demand that he do something. Then what happens?

ZOMG, YES!!!! That is exactly the kind of thing that I think could happen. Taking workaholism to the extreme and burning out in a spectacular explosion. Perhaps literally.

The only thing I'd say about the vices argument is that as a military guy (and a commander), Shep would hold himself to a slightly stricter standard than most. On top of that, I could also see him thinking of what Elizabeth would think of him if he let himself slip into vices of that nature--of how disappointed she'd be in him, because she relied on him to treat Atlantis and its people as she did, that the expedition comes first and personal issues come second. I don't think he'd ever be able to live with himself if he felt he'd purposely failed her, even if the cause was rooted in losing her.

So for his 'vice' I could see him as SR described him in her fic, which is an innocuous way of letting go for a while. We have proof of that with some of the flirting moments we get with characters like Larrin. I can also see him as a guy who throws himself with abandon into doing his job. It's been mentioned before that he no longer goofs around with paperwork and such like he did when Elizabeth was 'the boss'. Plus, we see him do absolutely crazy things to protect his friends, people, and Atlantis (scaling Atlantis Tower, fighting with Michael on the top of it, jumping into Rodney's head, etc).

What distinguishes Vegas!John from our John is that our John has not given into the vices Vegas!John did, because he has a sense of purpose that Vegas!John did not. Both are suffering the effects of loss, and if our John had not had Atlantis to worry about, I could see him becoming Vegas!John. But he does have that responsibility, and purpose, and I think a conscience in what Elizabeth would have wanted of him. He still owes her his life, after all. In a way I think he won't let that gift she gave him--a second chance--go to waste easily. It's gotta be worth something.

I keep thinking that if he goes out, he'll go out in a blaze of glory, saving the city, saving Earth, etc.

Now, John's vices. It's true that John seemed to goof around less under Woolsey. I'm not so sure about Sam. We didn't get to see much of that but at times like in S&R he did seem to run over her a bit. Which brings me to the idea that I've seen come up here and there that John just ignored Elizabeth's authority, didn't respect her and did whatever he wanted because she had a crush on him and he knew he could get away with murder. Does anyone remember any clear evidence of that? Hot Zone? Wasn't he just as concerned about her as she was him? And didn't they both have valid points in their argument? Doesn't it all come down to the military situation/civilian situation there? What about in Return I when he gave everybody above average evaluations and she scolded him? Didn't it look like he was trying to please her with being on time with the paperwork? And didn't he look ridiculously happy when she praised him at first? So how could it be said that he didn't respect her? Frankly that whole argument baffles me. Is there clear evidence that he always got his way?

And I think being more efficient under Woolsey happened because he had so many ridiculous rules and was so OCD about everything. I always felt like Elizabeth's rather loose style of leadership was because she respected everyone there for being the best in their field and didn't feel the need to look over every shoulder. It didn't just apply to John. In fact she was harder on him at times because he was a loose cannon.

I agree with you, I don't think John ever ignored Elizabeth's authority, either. In Hot Zone, while he was trying to protect her and everyone else in Atlantis, he still did step on her toes, and he knew it, and I think he did regret it. I think that same kind of regret colors every instance where they have disagreed, like Trinity, where Rodney convinced him to convince Elizabeth to let Rodney's work continue, or First Strike, where John appeared to side with Ellis without voicing any real concerns about the attack plan. Every time, John clearly appears to feel regret about the way things turned out and knows full well that he's responsible for it; that he's failed Elizabeth's trust in a fundamental way.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i found this http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Star_gate

Spoiler:

[Dr. Elizabeth Weir, temporarily led the SGC. Moved to Antarctica with her new boyfriend, John Sheppard. Has since moved with John to the lost city of Atlantis, and still made the occasional trip back to the SGC before becoming a Replicator.

thought you guys might like it.

[nephtys59]

John Respected Elizabeth But the only thing that kinda got me was that whole " i have more respect for you than any other commanding officer i ever had" line John said to Carter in "Search and Rescue" So Does that mean He Respected her more than Elizabeth?

Commanding Officer.
I think he says it because Carter is military.
Elizabeth was a civilian. So that line to me doesn't mean that he respected Carter more than Elizabeth. IMHO, it means that he respects Carter more than any other military officer in Stargate Command.

[Probie]

i found this http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Star_gate

Spoiler:

[Dr. Elizabeth Weir, temporarily led the SGC. Moved to Antarctica with her new boyfriend, John Sheppard. Has since moved with John to the lost city of Atlantis, and still made the occasional trip back to the SGC before becoming a Replicator.

thought you guys might like it.

I wanted to say "it's funny" but after seeing what they say about Torri, I hate it. Some things are funny and others are just stupidity.