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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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    Originally posted by JT-2 View Post
    Captain Power!!!!!!!!!!! We must be about the same age then, because I was addicted to that show when I was a kid. I'm fairly certain there's still a VHS tape with that episode somewhere in my house. Like you, it broke my heart and traumatized me. It was my first ship that ended in heartbreak. For a kid's show, it was pretty damn dramatic.
    I tried to watch it again a couple years ago, and I couldn't because I found it so violent and depressing. I can't believe it was a kids show either. And that ending, gee, way to stomp all over my poor young little heart. My first otp and it ended so tragically, no wonder I'm a sucker for angst.

    ETA: And Jennifer's last words to Power were "I love you John, so much." Talk about prophetic.
    Last edited by Luz; 05 June 2013, 08:50 PM.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Pearl of Atlantis76 View Post
      Welcome!

      I didn’t mind Sam in SG1, but I really could not stand her, in SGA. She was never able to fit in, in SGA. I definitely prefer Woolsey to Sam, as the replacement of Elizabeth.
      Thanks for the welcome
      I had no idea that there were so many mixed feelings towards Sam in SGA, this has been a very interesting experience for me, having so far visited mostly Sam/Jack threads here on GW.

      Originally posted by poundpuppy29 View Post
      My opinion when they first created the Weir character it was a political Sam that is my opinion blonde hair, very smart & the kinda closed off personality I don't hate Sam like some Daniel fans do but she was too closed off for me sometimes but I liked her and respected her, when they were going to do SGA IMHO they changed what they wanted Weir to be hence change the actress who portrayed her that's what I think.
      I wonder why some Daniel fans hate Sam? I could of course ask in one of the Daniel threads, but I better not, I don't want people to think that I'm a troll or something

      Originally posted by JT-2 View Post
      Thank you for being so reasonable about this. I just wanted to warn you so you wouldn't be shocked if some negative stuff came up out of nowhere.
      And I appreciate your warning, because I really had no idea that so many SGA fans didn't like Sam. Of course it makes me sad that my favorite character makes other people's blood boil, but given the way Weir was replaced and the poor writing of Sam in SGA, I don't blame you.

      What was officially said in regard to Torri's departure? Was any reason given?

      Comment


        Originally posted by Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse View Post
        Thanks for the welcome
        I had no idea that there were so many mixed feelings towards Sam in SGA, this has been a very interesting experience for me, having so far visited mostly Sam/Jack threads here on GW.


        I wonder why some Daniel fans hate Sam? I could of course ask in one of the Daniel threads, but I better not, I don't want people to think that I'm a troll or something
        It's my understanding that some of that is bourne from MS's return in s7 and the vast increase in his screentime from that point onwards (increasing as the years went on) at the expense of AT. But its not a subject I've looked into much, I've tended to stay away from SG-1 fandom, even though I loved the show itself.

        And I appreciate your warning, because I really had no idea that so many SGA fans didn't like Sam. Of course it makes me sad that my favorite character makes other people's blood boil, but given the way Weir was replaced and the poor writing of Sam in SGA, I don't blame you.
        I like Sam, but only liked bits of her in s4 of SGA.

        What was officially said in regard to Torri's departure? Was any reason given?
        I don't recall. They said they were reducing her to recurring status (note just recurring, not regular recurring like Zelenka) and were going to bring AT over. AT still had a year to go on her contract so didn't have much choice in the matter. Had SG-1 gone for another season, then she likely would have remained on that show. There are varying conflicting statements regarding torri's departure, I doubt we will ever know the 'real' reason.

        IMO they made an effort to write more for her in s3, found it hard to incorporate her into stories in a way that they liked, and when SG-1 got cancelled it was the perfect opportunity for them to get rid of a hard to write for character and replace her with an easier to write for, and more popular, one
        sigpic

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          Originally posted by Luz View Post
          I liked Jessica's Weir and would have probably watched SGA with her out of loyalty. Though it was never an option since JS doesn't like long term commitments to tv shows. But it didn't take much of an effort getting used to Torri because she's fantastic. Whenever people start talking about how ~wooden TH's portrayal is I just shake my head and don't even bother.

          I have a feeling some people just like using JS as an excuse to bash TH and Weir.
          Sadly, that's probably true.

          Originally posted by Luz View Post
          Had Elizabeth been played by JS, she would have probably died at the end on season 1.

          She was in my favorite tv show when I was little, Captain Power. She played a character named Jennifer Chase "Pilot", my first tv crush. And she died at the end of the first, and only season (the show got cancelled). The baddies invaded the heroes' headquarters and she activated the self-destruct and, yes, she got blown up. Broke my heart and traumatized me for life.
          Originally posted by JT-2 View Post
          Captain Power!!!!!!!!!!! We must be about the same age then, because I was addicted to that show when I was a kid. I'm fairly certain there's still a VHS tape with that episode somewhere in my house. Like you, it broke my heart and traumatized me. It was my first ship that ended in heartbreak. For a kid's show, it was pretty damn dramatic.
          OMG CAPTAIN POWER!!!! That show was so awesome! (BTW, a number of people who worked on Captain Power went on to work on what is still one of the greatest sci-fi series of all time, Babylon 5. Pretty cool, huh?) Pilot's death was such a shock for what was ostensibly a kids' show.

          Originally posted by Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse View Post
          What was officially said in regard to Torri's departure? Was any reason given?
          Originally posted by gateraid View Post
          I don't recall. They said they were reducing her to recurring status (note just recurring, not regular recurring like Zelenka) and were going to bring AT over. AT still had a year to go on her contract so didn't have much choice in the matter. Had SG-1 gone for another season, then she likely would have remained on that show. There are varying conflicting statements regarding torri's departure, I doubt we will ever know the 'real' reason.

          IMO they made an effort to write more for her in s3, found it hard to incorporate her into stories in a way that they liked, and when SG-1 got cancelled it was the perfect opportunity for them to get rid of a hard to write for character and replace her with an easier to write for, and more popular, one
          Pretty much. I seem to recall there was some vague handwaving about taking Weir in a "new direction" (which never really went anywhere), wanting to introduce a level of danger for the characters that hadn't been seen before, etc. A lot of us believed even then that it was smoke and mirrors. *shrugs*
          (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
          Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse View Post
            Thanks for the welcome
            I had no idea that there were so many mixed feelings towards Sam in SGA, this has been a very interesting experience for me, having so far visited mostly Sam/Jack threads here on GW.


            I wonder why some Daniel fans hate Sam? I could of course ask in one of the Daniel threads, but I better not, I don't want people to think that I'm a troll or something


            And I appreciate your warning, because I really had no idea that so many SGA fans didn't like Sam. Of course it makes me sad that my favorite character makes other people's blood boil, but given the way Weir was replaced and the poor writing of Sam in SGA, I don't blame you.

            What was officially said in regard to Torri's departure? Was any reason given?
            Final exams are over. I plan to take a couple days worth of break before starting on my summer homework.

            Welcome to the thread, Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse! It's been interesting reading the past few pages worth of posts regarding Sam in Atlantis, and we're grateful that you understand our reasons for how we feel about Sam. To answer your question, I don't know too much about what was officially said, but if you want to know what was going on behind the scenes, the producers wrote Torri off the show simply because they felt they couldn't write for her character. The old-timers here could probably elaborate more on this, but the producers felt that Elizabeth was too complicated and difficult to write for, and they decided to get rid of her as a result. I think that if she had been replaced by a character who brought something fresh and new to the show, we wouldn't be as resentful about this issue. However, as Southern Red so nicely put it, Sam became Weir light, because the writers wrote Sam in the exact same way that they wrote Elizabeth.

            We're all still extremely sour over this whole matter, because the producers kicked off a character that so many fans loved and brought in a character from SG-1, the original show. It was an insult to many SGA loyalists, especially those like me, who don't watch SG-1. The producers said that Sam would bring something new to Atlantis, but hindsight is 20/20, and all we can say is that they were sorely mistaken. I never thought that Sam significantly contributed to the show; Season 4 of Atlantis was my least favorite season of all, and I thought that many episodes didn't need her to survive.
            sigpic
            Please visit sga-rising.com for a Season 6 of Stargate: Atlantis
            View my projects on FF.net || AO3 || YouTube

            (Formerly known as Sparks of Atlantis)

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              Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post
              OMG CAPTAIN POWER!!!! That show was so awesome! (BTW, a number of people who worked on Captain Power went on to work on what is still one of the greatest sci-fi series of all time, Babylon 5. Pretty cool, huh?) Pilot's death was such a shock for what was ostensibly a kids' show.
              adsjdgdgdhhfdjhsgjhgjhjasfhgdzfhg! I know. It was amazing.

              There are talks of a revival, it will be called Phoenix Rising. I don't want to get my hopes up though.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                Steen's character on Flashpoint was also blown up.
                I watched her on that but didn't remember what happened to her. Sounds like a trend.

                Originally posted by Sparks of Atlantis View Post
                Final exams are over. I plan to take a couple days worth of break before starting on my summer homework.
                Congrats on being finished with exams. But summer homework? Is that common or are you taking a class?
                sigpic

                Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                Comment


                  *pops in*

                  I am loving all this conversation! And welcome to the new members!

                  So we're under a tropical storm warning here in Florida. Which means business as usual. I have some errands to run today, but when I get home, I have a new song to make a video to. So keep on the lookout; I'll post it later!

                  Comment


                    Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Fluffy Thursday!

                    Those silly people at Southern California Edison (aka our power company), are going to be doing some sort of maintenance/upgrades to their system that require them to shut off the power to our neighborhood for most of the day today. I know, WTF?, right? Which means I'll be offline until this evening, so don't worry if I don't show up anywhere for the rest of the day. And try not to burn down the internet while I'm gone, LOL!
                    (This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
                    Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                      *pops in*

                      I am loving all this conversation! And welcome to the new members!

                      So we're under a tropical storm warning here in Florida. Which means business as usual. I have some errands to run today, but when I get home, I have a new song to make a video to. So keep on the lookout; I'll post it later!
                      It's coming up here tomorrow. You can keep it. I have running around to do and don't want to melt.
                      sigpic

                      Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                        *pops in*

                        I am loving all this conversation! And welcome to the new members!

                        So we're under a tropical storm warning here in Florida. Which means business as usual. I have some errands to run today, but when I get home, I have a new song to make a video to. So keep on the lookout; I'll post it later!
                        This talk about the weather makes me want to watch The Storm/The Eye.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                          It's my understanding that some of that is bourne from MS's return in s7 and the vast increase in his screentime from that point onwards (increasing as the years went on) at the expense of AT. But its not a subject I've looked into much, I've tended to stay away from SG-1 fandom, even though I loved the show itself.

                          [...]
                          I don't recall. They said they were reducing her to recurring status (note just recurring, not regular recurring like Zelenka) and were going to bring AT over. AT still had a year to go on her contract so didn't have much choice in the matter. Had SG-1 gone for another season, then she likely would have remained on that show. There are varying conflicting statements regarding torri's departure, I doubt we will ever know the 'real' reason.

                          IMO they made an effort to write more for her in s3, found it hard to incorporate her into stories in a way that they liked, and when SG-1 got cancelled it was the perfect opportunity for them to get rid of a hard to write for character and replace her with an easier to write for, and more popular, one
                          Are the Daniel fans hating Sam because Daniel ended up having more screen time than Sam? Was that because the AT fans were complaining? It's all very confusing to me

                          Things really would have looked a lot different if SG-1 hadn't been cancelled...

                          I did notice that the Weir centered stories always were different from the stories evolving around the other cast memebers, like "The Real World" - which is one of my favorite episodes. Even though she was hard to write for, we did end up having some pretty good Weir stories, only just not so many...

                          Originally posted by Sparks of Atlantis View Post
                          Welcome to the thread, Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse! It's been interesting reading the past few pages worth of posts regarding Sam in Atlantis, and we're grateful that you understand our reasons for how we feel about Sam. To answer your question, I don't know too much about what was officially said, but if you want to know what was going on behind the scenes, the producers wrote Torri off the show simply because they felt they couldn't write for her character. The old-timers here could probably elaborate more on this, but the producers felt that Elizabeth was too complicated and difficult to write for, and they decided to get rid of her as a result. I think that if she had been replaced by a character who brought something fresh and new to the show, we wouldn't be as resentful about this issue. However, as Southern Red so nicely put it, Sam became Weir light, because the writers wrote Sam in the exact same way that they wrote Elizabeth.

                          We're all still extremely sour over this whole matter, because the producers kicked off a character that so many fans loved and brought in a character from SG-1, the original show. It was an insult to many SGA loyalists, especially those like me, who don't watch SG-1. The producers said that Sam would bring something new to Atlantis, but hindsight is 20/20, and all we can say is that they were sorely mistaken. I never thought that Sam significantly contributed to the show; Season 4 of Atlantis was my least favorite season of all, and I thought that many episodes didn't need her to survive.
                          Thanks for the welcome - and yes, I understand your reasons, because you've all been kind enough to answer all my questions and for that I'm grateful.

                          If Weir was hard to write for, then it makes even less sense to change Sam into a Weir-light *shakes head* It is also strange that Sam isn't in all the episodes - Weir was, wasn't she?

                          Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
                          *pops in*

                          I am loving all this conversation! And welcome to the new members!
                          Thanks, you've all really made me feel welcome even though my screen name and sig don't bring up happy memories

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse View Post
                            Are the Daniel fans hating Sam because Daniel ended up having more screen time than Sam? Was that because the AT fans were complaining? It's all very confusing to me

                            Things really would have looked a lot different if SG-1 hadn't been cancelled...

                            I did notice that the Weir centered stories always were different from the stories evolving around the other cast memebers, like "The Real World" - which is one of my favorite episodes. Even though she was hard to write for, we did end up having some pretty good Weir stories, only just not so many...


                            Thanks for the welcome - and yes, I understand your reasons, because you've all been kind enough to answer all my questions and for that I'm grateful.

                            If Weir was hard to write for, then it makes even less sense to change Sam into a Weir-light *shakes head* It is also strange that Sam isn't in all the episodes - Weir was, wasn't she?


                            Thanks, you've all really made me feel welcome even though my screen name and sig don't bring up happy memories
                            If I remember correctly, the number of episodes she appeared in was limited by AT's availability.

                            I think Torri was in all the episodes in the first 3 seasons, but sometimes that just meant they talked to her on the radio or had a quick office scene here and there. In fact, it has been said that she only worked a couple of days per week.
                            sigpic

                            Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
                              If I remember correctly, the number of episodes she appeared in was limited by AT's availability.

                              I think Torri was in all the episodes in the first 3 seasons, but sometimes that just meant they talked to her on the radio or had a quick office scene here and there. In fact, it has been said that she only worked a couple of days per week.
                              Thanks Only a couple of days per week? Not much considered she appeared right after Sheppard in the intro - one should think that would mean a lot of screen time.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Samantha-Carter-is-my-muse View Post
                                Thanks Only a couple of days per week? Not much considered she appeared right after Sheppard in the intro - one should think that would mean a lot of screen time.
                                It did mean a lot of screentime for her.

                                Many of the scenes with Weir were shot 2nd unit, which means not by the main filming unit. So they could have Team Shep out on the mission with the 1st unit, and the 2nd unit could film a whole bunch of stuff with Torri in one go. A lot of her scenes were on Atlantis with only a few characters (many of them recurring) and required little setup (ie they were in standing sets, so lighting, staging....all of that wasn't such an issue), so that's why she only needed to be there for a few days a week instead of every day.

                                A good example of this is The Long Goodbye. Some of the stuff in that ep, with Weir running around on her own, was shot about a month after the rest of the episode with the 2nd unit crew, while most of her interactions with other cast was shot with the main filming crew.

                                So days worked per week doesn't have a lot to do with actual screentime. This is also how AT/Carter managed to appear in a good number of episodes, along with being in the SG-1 films, working on Sanctuary, and looking after her boy
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