Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/Shippiness/atl_310_0861manip.jpg~original

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/Shippiness/MeetinginLizzehsQuarters.jpg~original

Wow, those are fantastic! I especially like the second one.


And...nothing else from me this morning. Carry on!

[Brie]

Wow Nolamom those manips are amazing.

Speaking of beds, isn't it interesting how many scenes the two of them shared in "intimate" places, specifically bedrooms? Let's see, there's the War and Peace scene in John's quarters in "Home," Elizabeth going to see John TWICE in "Conversion," and John visiting Elizabeth in her quarters in "The Return Part 1." Gee, you'd think that if TPTW didn't want us to think about shipping John and Elizabeth with each other, they would've avoided any scenes between them set in a bedroom.

Yeah, choosing to put not just one scene but several with the two of them in the bedrooms was an interesting choice because how can you view them as anything other than them being very intimate? Well, I guess TPTB have some answer to that one like they like to think they have for everything else but they still made some strange choices.

[poundpuppy29]

[ShipperWriter]

[]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/Shippiness/MeetinginLizzehsQuarters.jpg~original[/IMG]

I absolutely adore this pic. Nice job!

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I'm sure I didn't make any connection to shadow John and beds, but while we're on the subject, I've recently realized one of the episodes that probably made me think Sparky was a real thing the most was The Real World. Because getting Richard Dean Anderson back for an episode of Stargate is a big deal. The fact that they used "O'Neil" for the episode but used him basically as the mental antagonist for John (and only John) to help save Elizabeth from sorta sends a powerful message about the significance of their bond. Of course at the time, I just saw it as more sparky background noise.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I see what you're saying here BUT I think what made the whole thing shippy was the intensity in their stare and the unspoken communication they had after he said it...yeah, she knows she's sending a member of her team to die and the look was partly the realization of that. But I think it was a realization, too, of what this particular member of her team was becoming to mean to her and it was being echoed in his look.

Or I could just be a hopeless romantic doped up on too many allergy meds and not enough sleep

If you are a hopeless romantic, so am I, because I can also feel the intensity of the feelings that we get from that scene.

Here's a pretty good list of Sparky moments from an old thread.

Thank you very much.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...p.jpg~original

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/Shippiness/MeetinginLizzehsQuarters.jpg~original

Nolamom, thank you for the manips.

Yeah, choosing to put not just one scene but several with the two of them in the bedrooms was an interesting choice because how can you view them as anything other than them being very intimate? Well, I guess TPTB have some answer to that one like they like to think they have for everything else but they still made some strange choices.

I would like to see them explaining those scenes to us in a way that we would end up seeing them as non-shippy.

[Scary Kitty]

I'm sure I didn't make any connection to shadow John and beds, but while we're on the subject, I've recently realized one of the episodes that probably made me think Sparky was a real thing the most was The Real World. Because getting Richard Dean Anderson back for an episode of Stargate is a big deal. The fact that they used "O'Neil" for the episode but used him basically as the mental antagonist for John (and only John) to help save Elizabeth from sorta sends a powerful message about the significance of their bond. Of course at the time, I just saw it as more sparky background noise.

*falls out of chair* Damn, I never thought of that connection! That is very significant, indeed. And isn't it interesting that RDA never appeared on SGA again after Elizabeth was lost to the Replicators? Gotta wonder...

[gateraid]

The way they described Elizabeth's experience and education made me think she was involved with the State Department as a diplomat, at least before her SGC experience. Think about our Sec of State, Clinton and now Kerry. Aside from serving in the Senate, neither of them had any leadership experience. Sometimes leadership is thrust upon you, and they seemed to be implying that Elizabeth had a talent for leading. Once again, the writers didn't make it clear. I think we are meant to just accept this as we were so many things.

Well, we could debate Clinton's prior leadership abilities in another forum but I'm guessing we wouldn't achieve much haha. Although I would add that I thought Obama had been watching too much of The West Wing when he appointed Clinton.

I reiterate that nowhere have I said, or even implied (some may have inferred but I'm not responsible for that too!) that Elizabeth wasn't up for the job. She was assigned it (based on expectations of what the PG would be like, and with the assistance of a high ranking marine), and when the job changed she changed (with an adjustment period) too. At the end of s1, when Earth realised what was going on, they relieved her of command but she took command (sort of - Everett inexplicably left her directing troop movements in the control room and....didn't return) and by the time she was able to speak face to face with Earth she'd proved she was worthy of the new job.

I agree with Eri13 that the bigger stretch is that John was the 2IC, and that he remained there. However I'm happy that he did - in wouldn't be SGA without him

And, as someone else said, Woolsey had even less leadership experience than she did. In reality, neither of them would have had the job. They would have stuck some high level bureaucrat in there just because it was his/her turn to get promoted, or they would have given it to some screwup just to get rid of them. That, sadly, is the way a bureaucracy works. Mr. SR could tell you stories that would make you *headdesk* and repeat.

Surprisingly (I hate to use this comparison) the way it worked on SGU was more plausible (at least in s2). Young was in command, but he leaned heavily on Wray for advice. Scott was his his 2IC, but Wray was the one he talked to

I see what you're saying here BUT I think what made the whole thing shippy was the intensity in their stare and the unspoken communication they had after he said it...yeah, she knows she's sending a member of her team to die and the look was partly the realization of that. But I think it was a realization, too, of what this particular member of her team was becoming to mean to her and it was being echoed in his look.

Or I could just be a hopeless romantic doped up on too many allergy meds and not enough sleep

I could see the same scene happening with Cam and Sam in the control room of the SGC, where it wouldn't be shippy. But the hug between them wouldn't be shippy either, so i guess it everything is all in how one interprets it

*snorts* Brings a whole new meaning to the old adage, "where there's smoke, there's fire," doesn't it? TPTW kept saying 'oh no, there's nothing there,' but all they did was fan the flames even more.



Speaking of beds, isn't it interesting how many scenes the two of them shared in "intimate" places, specifically bedrooms? Let's see, there's the War and Peace scene in John's quarters in "Home," Elizabeth going to see John TWICE in "Conversion," and John visiting Elizabeth in her quarters in "The Return Part 1." Gee, you'd think that if TPTW didn't want us to think about shipping John and Elizabeth with each other, they would've avoided any scenes between them set in a bedroom.

Return I = ship IMO, the others not so much. In TR I you could cut the sexual tension with a knife. In any other show the probably would have had sex then (or at the very least kissed and left it open to interpretation). In the other two eps, the bedroom is just the bedroom - after all, are we saying that John/Teyla/Ronon had some sort of menage scenario going on in The Return part I too?

I'm sure I didn't make any connection to shadow John and beds, but while we're on the subject, I've recently realized one of the episodes that probably made me think Sparky was a real thing the most was The Real World. Because getting Richard Dean Anderson back for an episode of Stargate is a big deal. The fact that they used "O'Neil" for the episode but used him basically as the mental antagonist for John (and only John) to help save Elizabeth from sorta sends a powerful message about the significance of their bond. Of course at the time, I just saw it as more sparky background noise.

It's the one time where continuity played into it. Had it not been for The Return, I think that dream scenario would probably have played out on Atlantis, with Jack either relieving her of command or ordering their withdrawl. But it worked out much better the way it was aired

[drewandian]

I could see the same scene happening with Cam and Sam in the control room of the SGC, where it wouldn't be shippy. But the hug between them wouldn't be shippy either, so i guess it everything is all in how one interprets it

IMO Cam and Sam just didn't have the onscreen chemistry that Elizabeth and John did (and that doesn't really have anything to do with me being a Jack/Sam shipper, because I saw chemistry between Sam/Martouf even tho they weren't my OTP), so those scenes wouldn't interpret as shippy for me if they were shot with any other pair.

It's all about the chemistry the actors had...for me anyway

[gateraid]

IMO Cam and Sam just didn't have the onscreen chemistry that Elizabeth and John did (and that doesn't really have anything to do with me being a Jack/Sam shipper, because I saw chemistry between Sam/Martouf even tho they weren't my OTP), so those scenes wouldn't interpret as shippy for me if they were shot with any other pair.

It's all about the chemistry the actors had...for me anyway

Oh God no, Cam and Sam vs John and Elizabeth? No. Nooooo. I was just using them as an example of "imagine the same lines said between.....x & x". Although that does bring up an interesting point: during the commentary to The Ark of Truth, AT says during the Cam/Sam tag scene (she takes him cookies in the infirmary) that "there's something for the shippers". I'm not saying I've never seen the potential for ship between them, but geez, if they thought that was all it took for a ship to blossom, then it's a pandora's box scenario: either everything is potentially ship, or everyone is so relaxed around each other that there are no double meanings in anything (which is closer to real life IMO but considerably less viewable)

[Southern Red]

Well, we could debate Clinton's prior leadership abilities in another forum but I'm guessing we wouldn't achieve much haha. Although I would add that I thought Obama had been watching too much of The West Wing when he appointed Clinton.

You know my political leanings, right? You do not even want to get me started on this subject. *shudders*

Return I = ship IMO, the others not so much. In TR I you could cut the sexual tension with a knife. In any other show the probably would have had sex then (or at the very least kissed and left it open to interpretation). In the other two eps, the bedroom is just the bedroom - after all, are we saying that John/Teyla/Ronon had some sort of menage scenario going on in The Return part I too?

Well, considering all the fanfic out there about those 3 plus Rodney, I'm thinking that scenario has been considered.

IMO Cam and Sam just didn't have the onscreen chemistry that Elizabeth and John did (and that doesn't really have anything to do with me being a Jack/Sam shipper, because I saw chemistry between Sam/Martouf even tho they weren't my OTP), so those scenes wouldn't interpret as shippy for me if they were shot with any other pair.

It's all about the chemistry the actors had...for me anyway

ITA, no romantic chemistry whatsoever.

Oh God no, Cam and Sam vs John and Elizabeth? No. Nooooo. I was just using them as an example of "imagine the same lines said between.....x & x". Although that does bring up an interesting point: during the commentary to The Ark of Truth, AT says during the Cam/Sam tag scene (she takes him cookies in the infirmary) that "there's something for the shippers". I'm not saying I've never seen the potential for ship between them, but geez, if they thought that was all it took for a ship to blossom, then it's a pandora's box scenario: either everything is potentially ship, or everyone is so relaxed around each other that there are no double meanings in anything (which is closer to real life IMO but considerably less viewable)

Everything is a potential ship. I think some people just find the most unlikely ship and go with that one. I ran across someone somewhere recently, on Facebook I think, who ships John and Keller, and the funny thing was she had a long argument with a Sheyla over it. I was highly amused. At least for me, before I came on GW and learned the baffling truth, I shipped Sparky because it seemed the most obvious. Silly me.

[Raelis]

Everything is a potential ship.

Yep. That's like rule number one for any fandom.

Personally, I ship those characters whose chemistry appeals to me the most... and if other people don't see it, who cares? It's all about fun!

As for Cam and Sam, I thought they had terrific platonic chemistry. I loved their scenes together. One of my favorite Stargate friendships.

[gateraid]

You know my political leanings, right? You do not even want to get me started on this subject. *shudders*

Hahaha, I know yours but do you know mine? I thought that the aforementioned scenario worked out a lot better than I thought it would.

Well, considering all the fanfic out there about those 3 plus Rodney, I'm thinking that scenario has been considered.

Welcome to Pegasus, leave your inhibitions at the door

Everything is a potential ship. I think some people just find the most unlikely ship and go with that one. I ran across someone somewhere recently, on Facebook I think, who ships John and Keller, and the funny thing was she had a long argument with a Sheyla over it. I was highly amused. At least for me, before I came on GW and learned the baffling truth, I shipped Sparky because it seemed the most obvious. Silly me.

I guess the problem is that I consider myself to be a reasonably astute viewer (whether this is true or not is debatable ) and can tell when the writing is trying to imply a ship, or leave the door open for a ship vs something that I want to happen myself. The trouble with that is that plans change over the years and what was intended at the start isn't always what happens at the end

Yep. That's like rule number one for any fandom.

Personally, I ship those characters whose chemistry appeals to me the most... and if other people don't see it, who cares? It's all about fun!

As for Cam and Sam, I thought they had terrific platonic chemistry. I loved their scenes together. One of my favorite Stargate friendships.

That is a brilliant way of describing it

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Lazy Sunday and S-minus 4 hours and 15 minutes until the Missing post-a-thon!

Return I = ship IMO, the others not so much. In TR I you could cut the sexual tension with a knife. In any other show the probably would have had sex then (or at the very least kissed and left it open to interpretation). In the other two eps, the bedroom is just the bedroom - after all, are we saying that John/Teyla/Ronon had some sort of menage scenario going on in The Return part I too?

*hair flip*

I guess the problem is that I consider myself to be a reasonably astute viewer (whether this is true or not is debatable ) and can tell when the writing is trying to imply a ship, or leave the door open for a ship vs something that I want to happen myself. The trouble with that is that plans change over the years and what was intended at the start isn't always what happens at the end

I like to think I'm much the same, that I can usually tell where they're going in terms of ship. SGA was just such a hot mess of indecision and bad writing.

[Brie]

I'm sure I didn't make any connection to shadow John and beds, but while we're on the subject, I've recently realized one of the episodes that probably made me think Sparky was a real thing the most was The Real World. Because getting Richard Dean Anderson back for an episode of Stargate is a big deal. The fact that they used "O'Neil" for the episode but used him basically as the mental antagonist for John (and only John) to help save Elizabeth from sorta sends a powerful message about the significance of their bond. Of course at the time, I just saw it as more sparky background noise.

I never thought about that before but I think that you’re right and it was an interesting thing to have RDA in the episode and I liked that Torri and RDA worked so well together.

IMO Cam and Sam just didn't have the onscreen chemistry that Elizabeth and John did (and that doesn't really have anything to do with me being a Jack/Sam shipper, because I saw chemistry between Sam/Martouf even tho they weren't my OTP), so those scenes wouldn't interpret as shippy for me if they were shot with any other pair.

It's all about the chemistry the actors had...for me anyway

I loved the part of the SG-1 episode ‘200’ when they tried to indicate that Cam might be Jack’s son, now it was never made clear and it could have just been a joke to tease him but either way it makes the Sam and Cam thing feel really weird if they ever would have gone there (and hey, with TPTB you never knew what they wanted) but I’m with what everyone here have said, I didn’t see that kind of chemistry, I did like the friendship they had though, it was really well done, well; actually I will compliment TPTB on the way they wrote the friendships on all three shows because they did a good job with that and the chemistry between the cast on friendship level is really great.