Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Sequoia Hope]

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...-fu_dragon.gif

I can't stop watching that scene. I'm sitting here and grinning like an idiot.

I saw/read/something an interveiw once where Torri commented on why she was holding onto Joe so tight in that scene...she said something about feeling bad for him because she's "a healthy welsh girl" *sigh* still love that scene....

Lol. I have always wondered about this. Just out of curiosity, does anybody know what ethnicity Joe is?

That was the Rodney/Radek convo. Surprisingly, based on that line, it actually would suggest Rodney is the most qualified person (in Pegasus, at the time). And that Sam was waaaaay overqualified for the job, especially given her military background. I would have thought that the skills needed to run atlantis would be: the ability to manage large groups of people, the ability to manage egos, the ability to function in a crisis and take advice where needed, and the ability to take the salient information out of any briefing and act accordingly

I've really been enjoying this discussion about Carter, and the above quote caught my attention. I've been doing a lot of thinking myself about why Carter wasn't a good choice as leader of Atlantis, and I completely agree with the bolded parts in the quote. A leader does not necessarily have to know everything about everything - that's the whole reason why we have people like John to serve as the military commander, Rodney to act as the head of the science department, and Carson to be the Head of Medicine. If the leader is an absolute polymath, then why have those heads at all? Just look at John in Season 4. Because Colonel Carter was military, Atlantis no longer had a so-called "military commander," and we got a sense of ambiguity as to who exactly was making the military decisions.

With Elizabeth, it was very clear who was in charge of what. Elizabeth was very well suited for her position as leader, because even though she was not an expert in many fields, she possessed the leadership qualities necessary for her job. Besides the four listed above, I can also think of these five:

1. The ability to communicate with others on a professional and sometimes personal level.
2. The ability to stay patient when you're frustrated and think before you act.
3. The ability to put your people's needs before your own.
4. The ability to stay strong even during difficult times.
5. The ability to acknowledge when you have made a mistake and learn from your experience.

And Elizabeth has them all. I'm not saying that Carter didn't possess these qualities, but I'm saying that she was never given much opportunity to display these qualities because she was more than just the leader of Atlantis. She is the leader, but she is also military, and if I'm not mistaken, she's also a scientist, right? How do you write for someone like this? You would barely be able to skim the surface of her character, and more often than not, I felt that the writers weren't able to accommodate all sides to Carter and didn't know where to put her.

On the other hand, Elizabeth didn't have so much to her to the point that the writers couldn't display her as a character with depth. I've always appreciated the little fact that Elizabeth is a linguist. Even if it wasn't as often as we would have liked, we've seen her use her linguistic skills several times, such as in today's "Echoes," in which she tried to help John and Rodney decipher the whales' messages. I think that this demonstrates well how even though Elizabeth is a leader who must take care of administration duties and be responsible for her entire city as a whole, she does have her own unique strengths and passions. She is willing to put her skills to use and contribute in any way she can when an opportunity arises, and I greatly respect Elizabeth as a leader for this.

[gateraid]

[http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...-fu_dragon.gif

****ing morons. Who writes something like that and doesn't expect ship? Or.....who directs something like that (in the absence of specific direction from the script)?

I’m watching the Golden Globes a little on and off and I noticed

Spoiler:

that when ‘Homeland’ won that series showrunners made sure to thank the people whose characters had to die on the show and said that they will always be a part of the shows family and that they wouldn’t be forgotten, I really admire that and feel that it’s a pretty healthy attitude to have as a showrunner and someone who once cast these people on them but also because it’s just well…a nice thing to do, I dunno, that part just stood out to me (and I haven’t seen that show so maybe that’s why I just listened to the speech)

To that...

Spoiler:

Having watched SGU recently, I found TPTW's (on-screen) attitude shift quite interesting. Character death (at least in s2) was remembered. It had consequences. And with respect to the actors themselves, there's a nice little 'extra' on the dvd as a tribute to one of the actors.

I don't get the hype over Homeland. Is it because it's mainstreamed 'typey' shows, and suddenly 'normal' people are 'sort-of' into fandom? That made more sense in my head

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Echoes! It's one of my fave eps. Unfortunately I can't do post a thons for another month or so - my DVDs are in storage and Sunday afternoons I spend with my boys (our arrangement should be changing at the beginning of Feb tho and they watch Stargate with me so soon...very soon...)





I saw/read/something an interveiw once where Torri commented on why she was holding onto Joe so tight in that scene...she said something about feeling bad for him because she's "a healthy welsh girl" *sigh* still love that scene....

and oh..I notice the peekage every time too....

Healthy welsh girl my ass, she'd blow over in a stiff breeze

I can't stop watching that scene. I'm sitting here and grinning like an idiot.



Lol. I have always wondered about this. Just out of curiosity, does anybody know what ethnicity Joe is?



I've really been enjoying this discussion about Carter, and the above quote caught my attention. I've been doing a lot of thinking myself about why Carter wasn't a good choice as leader of Atlantis, and I completely agree with the bolded parts in the quote. A leader does not necessarily have to know everything about everything - that's the whole reason why we have people like John to serve as the military commander, Rodney to act as the head of the science department, and Carson to be the Head of Medicine. If the leader is an absolute polymath, then why have those heads at all? Just look at John in Season 4. Because Colonel Carter was military, Atlantis no longer had a so-called "military commander," and we got a sense of ambiguity as to who exactly was making the military decisions.

With Elizabeth, it was very clear who was in charge of what. Elizabeth was very well suited for her position as leader, because even though she was not an expert in many fields, she possessed the leadership qualities necessary for her job. Besides the four listed above, I can also think of these five:

1. The ability to communicate with others on a professional and sometimes personal level.
2. The ability to stay patient when you're frustrated and think before you act.
3. The ability to put your people's needs before your own.
4. The ability to stay strong even during difficult times.
5. The ability to acknowledge when you have made a mistake and learn from your experience.

And Elizabeth has them all. I'm not saying that Carter didn't possess these qualities, but I'm saying that she was never given much opportunity to display these qualities because she was more than just the leader of Atlantis. She is the leader, but she is also military, and if I'm not mistaken, she's also a scientist, right? How do you write for someone like this? You would barely be able to skim the surface of her character, and more often than not, I felt that the writers weren't able to accommodate all sides to Carter and didn't know where to put her.

On the other hand, Elizabeth didn't have so much to her to the point that the writers couldn't display her as a character with depth. I've always appreciated the little fact that Elizabeth is a linguist. Even if it wasn't as often as we would have liked, we've seen her use her linguistic skills several times, such as in today's "Echoes," in which she tried to help John and Rodney decipher the whales' messages. I think that this demonstrates well how even though Elizabeth is a leader who must take care of administration duties and be responsible for her entire city as a whole, she does have her own unique strengths and passions. She is willing to put her skills to use and contribute in any way she can when an opportunity arises, and I greatly respect Elizabeth as a leader for this.

That's an interesting perspective, not one I'd thought about. If I didn't know Carter prior to her visit to Atlantis, then I'd have no real knowledge of her skillset. Of the skills I mentioned, I think Carter actually had them (so did Weir), it's just that the ones they pointed out seemed, well, pointless. Why put hobbles on your prize stallion?

I should also add that for the initial mission (find Atlantis, and procure weapons and technology for the defence of earth), Elizabeth was not the right person for the job too. Given the unknowns, it should have gone to a military person. But one could argue that her time at the SGC would have prepared her for some of the potential 'issues' likely to arise. Plus, if POTUS thinks you're the right person for the job (running the SGC), then that's a pretty good endorsement of your skillset, no?

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I am not sure if the main objective of finding/exploring Atlantis, the Lost City of the Ancients was exactly to procure weapons and technology to defend Earth, i mean they were also looking for more information, more knowledge about the Ancients in all levels, such as medical knowledge, other scientific knowledge and to know more about the Ancients themselves, of course if they would find weapons and technology to defend Earth, even better, but i believe the main focus of the expedition, at least according to my point of view, was not only the search for new weapons, and that’s why many teams of scientists were sent to Atlantis as well, and that’s why Elizabeth being a linguist and a civilian made sense in being the leader of such expedition. Of course the military would always have to be added to such an expedition, they never knew what they were expecting to find on the other side of the Gate, in Atlantis, so. The main purpose of the expedition was to discover the secrets of the Lost City of Atlantis and the Ancients, their main focus was never to explore other planets in the Pegasus Galaxy, they just had to do it because they ended up “meeting” the Wraith and they realized they needed more ZPM to power the city, not to mention another safe place to where they would be able to evacuate in the eventuality they would have to evacuate from Atlantis and since they were not in contact with Earth.

[Southern Red]

I can't stop watching that scene. I'm sitting here and grinning like an idiot.



Lol. I have always wondered about this. Just out of curiosity, does anybody know what ethnicity Joe is?

The Flanigans are of Irish heritage, but Joe was adopted. His mother is Scottish and I'm not sure about his father, though his name is Dunnegan, or something like that, so probably also Scottish. His mom married John Flanigan when Joe was 6. They are a fascinating and rather well known family here with involvement in politics, finance and beer. Here's Chuck explaining the beer connection. Joe also tells this story at cons. He called his cousin who was CEO of the company and asked "How would you like Budweiser to be the first beer in space?" LOL

Spoiler:

Good summary of Carter. If TPTW had read this, they might have written her differently. It's like they forgot her character from SG-1.

I am not sure if the main objective of finding/exploring Atlantis, the Lost City of the Ancients was exactly to procure weapons and technology to defend Earth, i mean they were also looking for more information, more knowledge about the Ancients in all levels, such as medical knowledge, other scientific knowledge and to know more about the Ancients themselves, of course if they would find weapons and technology to defend Earth, even better, but i believe the main focus of the expedition, at least according to my point of view, was not only the search for new weapons, and that’s why many teams of scientists were sent to Atlantis as well, and that’s why Elizabeth being a linguist and a civilian made sense in being the leader of such expedition. Of course the military would always have to be added to such an expedition, they never knew what they were expecting to find on the other side of the Gate, in Atlantis, so. The main purpose of the expedition was to discover the secrets of the Lost City of Atlantis and the Ancients, their main focus was never to explore other planets in the Pegasus Galaxy, they just had to do it because they ended up “meeting” the Wraith and they realized they needed more ZPM to power the city, not to mention another safe place to where they would be able to evacuate in the eventuality they would have to evacuate from Atlantis and since they were not in contact with Earth.

I think the military was intended to be there strictly as security. I don't remember any reference to looking for weapons. It was set up to be like SG-1. Go to a planet, meet the inhabitants, get in trouble and escape.

[McBecklover]

Hello Sparkies!

(unfortunately I don't have any new pics)

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Canon Monday!

I’m watching the Golden Globes a little on and off and I noticed

Spoiler:

that when ‘Homeland’ won that series showrunners made sure to thank the people whose characters had to die on the show and said that they will always be a part of the shows family and that they wouldn’t be forgotten, I really admire that and feel that it’s a pretty healthy attitude to have as a showrunner and someone who once cast these people on them but also because it’s just well…a nice thing to do, I dunno, that part just stood out to me (and I haven’t seen that show so maybe that’s why I just listened to the speech)

See, now those are showrunners who do it right.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n635/mathgirl1248/Animated%20gifs/echoes-by-fu_dragon.gif

*flaily flails* Can never. Stop. Watching.

****ing morons. Who writes something like that and doesn't expect ship? Or.....who directs something like that (in the absence of specific direction from the script)?

This.

To that...

Spoiler:

Having watched SGU recently, I found TPTW's (on-screen) attitude shift quite interesting. Character death (at least in s2) was remembered. It had consequences. And with respect to the actors themselves, there's a nice little 'extra' on the dvd as a tribute to one of the actors.

I don't get the hype over Homeland. Is it because it's mainstreamed 'typey' shows, and suddenly 'normal' people are 'sort-of' into fandom? That made more sense in my head

Hmm, didn't know that about the DVD. Too bad it took them so long to figure it out. Too little, too late....

I've really been enjoying this discussion about Carter, and the above quote caught my attention. I've been doing a lot of thinking myself about why Carter wasn't a good choice as leader of Atlantis, and I completely agree with the bolded parts in the quote. A leader does not necessarily have to know everything about everything - that's the whole reason why we have people like John to serve as the military commander, Rodney to act as the head of the science department, and Carson to be the Head of Medicine. If the leader is an absolute polymath, then why have those heads at all? Just look at John in Season 4. Because Colonel Carter was military, Atlantis no longer had a so-called "military commander," and we got a sense of ambiguity as to who exactly was making the military decisions.

With Elizabeth, it was very clear who was in charge of what. Elizabeth was very well suited for her position as leader, because even though she was not an expert in many fields, she possessed the leadership qualities necessary for her job. Besides the four listed above, I can also think of these five:

1. The ability to communicate with others on a professional and sometimes personal level.
2. The ability to stay patient when you're frustrated and think before you act.
3. The ability to put your people's needs before your own.
4. The ability to stay strong even during difficult times.
5. The ability to acknowledge when you have made a mistake and learn from your experience.

And Elizabeth has them all. I'm not saying that Carter didn't possess these qualities, but I'm saying that she was never given much opportunity to display these qualities because she was more than just the leader of Atlantis. She is the leader, but she is also military, and if I'm not mistaken, she's also a scientist, right? How do you write for someone like this? You would barely be able to skim the surface of her character, and more often than not, I felt that the writers weren't able to accommodate all sides to Carter and didn't know where to put her.

On the other hand, Elizabeth didn't have so much to her to the point that the writers couldn't display her as a character with depth. I've always appreciated the little fact that Elizabeth is a linguist. Even if it wasn't as often as we would have liked, we've seen her use her linguistic skills several times, such as in today's "Echoes," in which she tried to help John and Rodney decipher the whales' messages. I think that this demonstrates well how even though Elizabeth is a leader who must take care of administration duties and be responsible for her entire city as a whole, she does have her own unique strengths and passions. She is willing to put her skills to use and contribute in any way she can when an opportunity arises, and I greatly respect Elizabeth as a leader for this.

Brilliantly put. All these little flashes of her complementary skillsets, from the linguistics to the diplomatic experience to simply patience show that Elizabeth was truly a well-rounded character who had the natural instincts and skills to be a good leader for such a diverse group of people pursuing a varied set of goals.

That's an interesting perspective, not one I'd thought about. If I didn't know Carter prior to her visit to Atlantis, then I'd have no real knowledge of her skillset. Of the skills I mentioned, I think Carter actually had them (so did Weir), it's just that the ones they pointed out seemed, well, pointless. Why put hobbles on your prize stallion?

I should also add that for the initial mission (find Atlantis, and procure weapons and technology for the defence of earth), Elizabeth was not the right person for the job too. Given the unknowns, it should have gone to a military person. But one could argue that her time at the SGC would have prepared her for some of the potential 'issues' likely to arise. Plus, if POTUS thinks you're the right person for the job (running the SGC), then that's a pretty good endorsement of your skillset, no?

True. But there was also talk initially about the possibility of meeting Ancients when they found Atlantis; the President and others (like O'Neill) may also have been thinking about how Elizabeth's skills would be useful in a first contact situation.

[america126]

wow!!!

all this discussion, it's fun to see that people are talking nicely to each other on a forum
late 2006, i watched an episode of Stargate Atlantis, in my case..it was the storm,but i never saw the following episode after. i saw before i sleep. i got hooked immediately and now have
all 5 seasons. that is it in a nutshell. I've always wondered onto this thread , even though i was not a member then, which seems weird.

i also watch arrow!!! which i love, from what i have seen. Oliver and Laurel obviously love each other. new episode this week!!

[Annelantis]

I can't stop watching that scene. I'm sitting here and grinning like an idiot.



Lol. I have always wondered about this. Just out of curiosity, does anybody know what ethnicity Joe is?



I've really been enjoying this discussion about Carter, and the above quote caught my attention. I've been doing a lot of thinking myself about why Carter wasn't a good choice as leader of Atlantis, and I completely agree with the bolded parts in the quote. A leader does not necessarily have to know everything about everything - that's the whole reason why we have people like John to serve as the military commander, Rodney to act as the head of the science department, and Carson to be the Head of Medicine. If the leader is an absolute polymath, then why have those heads at all? Just look at John in Season 4. Because Colonel Carter was military, Atlantis no longer had a so-called "military commander," and we got a sense of ambiguity as to who exactly was making the military decisions.

With Elizabeth, it was very clear who was in charge of what. Elizabeth was very well suited for her position as leader, because even though she was not an expert in many fields, she possessed the leadership qualities necessary for her job. Besides the four listed above, I can also think of these five:

1. The ability to communicate with others on a professional and sometimes personal level.
2. The ability to stay patient when you're frustrated and think before you act.
3. The ability to put your people's needs before your own.
4. The ability to stay strong even during difficult times.
5. The ability to acknowledge when you have made a mistake and learn from your experience.

And Elizabeth has them all. I'm not saying that Carter didn't possess these qualities, but I'm saying that she was never given much opportunity to display these qualities because she was more than just the leader of Atlantis. She is the leader, but she is also military, and if I'm not mistaken, she's also a scientist, right? How do you write for someone like this? You would barely be able to skim the surface of her character, and more often than not, I felt that the writers weren't able to accommodate all sides to Carter and didn't know where to put her.

On the other hand, Elizabeth didn't have so much to her to the point that the writers couldn't display her as a character with depth. I've always appreciated the little fact that Elizabeth is a linguist. Even if it wasn't as often as we would have liked, we've seen her use her linguistic skills several times, such as in today's "Echoes," in which she tried to help John and Rodney decipher the whales' messages. I think that this demonstrates well how even though Elizabeth is a leader who must take care of administration duties and be responsible for her entire city as a whole, she does have her own unique strengths and passions. She is willing to put her skills to use and contribute in any way she can when an opportunity arises, and I greatly respect Elizabeth as a leader for this.

Glad everyone enjoyed. Echoes - sorry I couldn't join in. I did end up watching it at 1am as daughter was sick and I stayed up with her. I do love this episode, so many funny and shippy moments both Sheppard/Weir and Ronon/Teyla.

Anyway, sparks, the discussion about the leadership. I completely agree with everything you wrote here about Elizabeth and the qualities that made her the best person for the job. Her linguistic and diplomatic skills were so important to her character as well and they didn't get utilised enough in my opinion.

Oh, well... we can only gripe and rewatch, eh!

[poundpuppy29]

[Sparky She-Demon]

Good eyesex scene right there!

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

Glad everyone enjoyed. Echoes - sorry I couldn't join in. I did end up watching it at 1am as daughter was sick and I stayed up with her. I do love this episode, so many funny and shippy moments both Sheppard/Weir and Ronon/Teyla.

Anyway, sparks, the discussion about the leadership. I completely agree with everything you wrote here about Elizabeth and the qualities that made her the best person for the job. Her linguistic and diplomatic skills were so important to her character as well and they didn't get utilised enough in my opinion.

Oh, well... we can only gripe and rewatch, eh!

Annelantis i red your fic’s 4th chapter and i loved it, keep up with the good work, i am really loving it and i want more, please!

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

Has anyone seen this documentary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SzaG...&feature=share

Spoiler:

Honestly i don’t know what to think about it. I mean in a way i think it is being a good documentary (i haven’t watched all of it yet, only one hour or so) but on the other hand i feel kind of angry with it. I mean they talk about Atlantis sure, but Torri and Joe seem to be only extras, very important extras because they show some of their scenes (most of times they are not together in the scenes only in one around 40 – 45 minutes they show a scene in which both of them are really close, but the scene was so fast that i can’t tell you now which scene was! ).

Then there is this part in which they talk about the importance of women in Stargate, they say that usually women in Sci-fi never have important roles and so on, but the thing is, for someone who doesn’t know about Stargate and is watching this documentary, they will definitely think that Carter and Teyla are the only important women in Stargate, (as if Teyla’s role has ever been quite developed) and although they show scenes of Elizabeth, not a single word about her is said!!! I am more than angry with this!!!!!

Carl Binder talks quite a lot and he says that SGU ended up being his favourite, he also says that he wasn’t or at least didn’t feel so comfortable writing Sci-fi, and he also said that he would go to the internet and check what fans were saying and he would usually notice that fans would point out certain mistakes he had made in his story, whether related with facts of the show, or something like that.

David Hewlett also talks and he said (and this i didn’t know) that when he was picked to act in SGA he had initially gone to do a casting to another character, but then they recognise him as being the McKay from SG1 and that’s how he ended up being part of the SGA cast.

Rachel Luttrel also talks and she speaks about how she was worried about the time in which she was pregnant but she said that the writers were able to fit her condition in the story and she also talked something about the love story between her and Kanaan, she used the words “love story”, so once again here is the proof that someone (namily the person who is writing the legacy books) should hear from Rachel’s mouth!!!!

But anyway, i still have 30 minutes or so to watch let’s see what else i can find out.

Oh please bare in mind that i don’t speak French, but i can understand it, well not perfectly but enough to be able to understand most things, but it would be great to hear someone who actually speaks French comment about this documentary, though.

[Southern Red]

Has anyone seen this documentary?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SzaG...&feature=share

Spoiler:

Honestly i don’t know what to think about it. I mean in a way i think it is being a good documentary (i haven’t watched all of it yet, only one hour or so) but on the other hand i feel kind of angry with it. I mean they talk about Atlantis sure, but Torri and Joe seem to be only extras, very important extras because they show some of their scenes (most of times they are not together in the scenes only in one around 40 – 45 minutes they show a scene in which both of them are really close, but the scene was so fast that i can’t tell you now which scene was! ).

Then there is this part in which they talk about the importance of women in Stargate, they say that usually women in Sci-fi never have important roles and so on, but the thing is, for someone who doesn’t know about Stargate and is watching this documentary, they will definitely think that Carter and Teyla are the only important women in Stargate, (as if Teyla’s role has ever been quite developed) and although they show scenes of Elizabeth, not a single word about her is said!!! I am more than angry with this!!!!!

Carl Binder talks quite a lot and he says that SGU ended up being his favourite, he also says that he wasn’t or at least didn’t feel so comfortable writing Sci-fi, and he also said that he would go to the internet and check what fans were saying and he would usually notice that fans would point out certain mistakes he had made in his story, whether related with facts of the show, or something like that.

David Hewlett also talks and he said (and this i didn’t know) that when he was picked to act in SGA he had initially gone to do a casting to another character, but then they recognise him as being the McKay from SG1 and that’s how he ended up being part of the SGA cast.

Rachel Luttrel also talks and she speaks about how she was worried about the time in which she was pregnant but she said that the writers were able to fit her condition in the story and she also talked something about the love story between her and Kanaan, she used the words “love story”, so once again here is the proof that someone (namily the person who is writing the legacy books) should hear from Rachel’s mouth!!!!

But anyway, i still have 30 minutes or so to watch let’s see what else i can find out.

Oh please bare in mind that i don’t speak French, but i can understand it, well not perfectly but enough to be able to understand most things, but it would be great to hear someone who actually speaks French comment about this documentary, though.

Your assessment of this makes me glad I don't speak French because I think my head might explode. Well, except for the Kanaan part. That might be worth it. I've read several interviews and heard things at cons from RL about the situation but have never heard her use the term "love story" before. Now that is very interesting. Joe Mallozzi said in his blog that Teyla got her happy ending, so I never did understand why some people insisted otherwise.

Thank you for doing this.

[McBecklover]

Hello Sparkies!

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Your assessment of this makes me glad I don't speak French because I think my head might explode. Well, except for the Kanaan part. That might be worth it. I've read several interviews and heard things at cons from RL about the situation but have never heard her use the term "love story" before. Now that is very interesting. Joe Mallozzi said in his blog that Teyla got her happy ending, so I never did understand why some people insisted otherwise.

Thank you for doing this.

I think my head would've exploded too. But the bit about Teyla and Kanaan's love story? EPIC. *flails and squees*