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    What do you mean by that, Pearl?
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      Originally posted by Pearl of Atlantis76 View Post
      Sparky is Atlantis and Atlantis is Sparky. We all know that SGA was never the same once Sparky got separated.
      Spoiler:
      But soon that will change!!! *does happy dance*
      You are so right Pearl. SGA was never the same when Weir was lost. S4 is okay but Carter just never fitted in and while Woosley is good and S5 is better I just couldn't help thinking during my recent re-watch "It would have been so much better with Liz"

      I always thought it was just myself and my husband who thought this. It's nice to know there are others who agree.
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        Originally posted by Southern Red View Post
        You know I was just thinking that luisa_ has proven a point that we have been trying to make on this thread for years. You don't have to put on "shipper glasses" or squint to see Sparky. It's just there. Whether you see love or just friendship, it is just right there in front of your eyes and all you have to do is open them to see it. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you have to squint harder not to see it.
        When I say I'n not a shipping fan I mean I'm not a fan of love story between John and Elisabeth, or Teyla or someone else in SGA (as Rodney and Dr Keller). I like the Travellers episode, but also I like it stopped there.

        But, I really like the feeling between John and Elisabeth as great friendship. They take care of each other without being involved in the situations that involves a love story. I think even in RL sometimes it's stronger and lasting the friendship than love.

        Comment


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            Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon View Post
            What do you mean by that, Pearl?
            Well, for once only someone who watched seasons 4 and 5 probably understands what I am saying. But what I mean is that SGA was never the same once Elizabeth “left”, I mean everything changed after her departure. I mean John was never the same after her “departure”. He changed completely, from day to night. Sparky being separated made Atlantis broken. And that’s why Atlantis (the show) was never the same after Elizabeth’s departure, because Atlantis (the show) without Sparky is not “Atlantis”.


            Originally posted by Annelantis View Post
            You are so right Pearl. SGA was never the same when Weir was lost. S4 is okay but Carter just never fitted in and while Woosley is good and S5 is better I just couldn't help thinking during my recent re-watch "It would have been so much better with Liz"
            Carter should never have been there. Until today I am not able to understand what was the point of having Elizabeth replaced by Carter, when, if we look back now, Carter was not there in half of the episodes of the season. If they wanted to make episodes in which the leaders of Atlantis would not always show up, they could have done it with Elizabeth there. You are right, S5 would have been much better with Liz, certain situations would definitely happen differently, and definitely certain scenes would have been more powerful if it had been Elizabeth dealing with the situations.

            I always thought it was just myself and my husband who thought this. It's nice to know there are others who agree.
            There are a lot of other people who agree with us on this.

            Originally posted by poundpuppy29 View Post
            http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w254/poundpuppy29/Sparky/SheppardandWeir2.jpg
            Oh my gosh, just look at Elizabeth's face here!!!!
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            sig by Erin Atlantis Rising: The Virtual series Thank you so much for "Primum Movens"

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              Originally posted by luisa_ View Post
              Hi everyone. Never been in this thread 'cause I'n not a fan of shipping.
              But I made this video and I think this could be the right place to post it.
              It wasn't in my intention to make a shipping video, but at last it looks like.

              You have to watch it pretending it was never happend what happened before the episode Lifeline and you never saw the episode The Progeny.

              It's long more than 7 minutes. I hope you like it.

              Wow!!! That was a great vid, luisa!!
              I tell you Teal'c, hockey is the coolest game on Earth!

              Did you not say it is played on ice, O'Neill?

              Comment


                Originally posted by Pearl of Atlantis76 View Post
                Well, for once only someone who watched seasons 4 and 5 probably understands what I am saying. But what I mean is that SGA was never the same once Elizabeth “left”, I mean everything changed after her departure. I mean John was never the same after her “departure”. He changed completely, from day to night. Sparky being separated made Atlantis broken. And that’s why Atlantis (the show) was never the same after Elizabeth’s departure, because Atlantis (the show) without Sparky is not “Atlantis”.

                Oh my gosh, just look at Elizabeth's face here!!!!
                I know what you mean. To me even the city looked like it was in morning for Elizabeth in Season 4. I've always thought of her as the soul of Atlantis and John as the heart. Things kept going only because the heart (John) didn't give out.

                Elizabeth looks so smitten in that pic.
                I tell you Teal'c, hockey is the coolest game on Earth!

                Did you not say it is played on ice, O'Neill?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Pearl of Atlantis76 View Post
                  Well, for once only someone who watched seasons 4 and 5 probably understands what I am saying. But what I mean is that SGA was never the same once Elizabeth “left”, I mean everything changed after her departure. I mean John was never the same after her “departure”. He changed completely, from day to night. Sparky being separated made Atlantis broken. And that’s why Atlantis (the show) was never the same after Elizabeth’s departure, because Atlantis (the show) without Sparky is not “Atlantis”.
                  I agree with you, but to be completely fair to TPTW, they altered the tone of the episodes at the start of s4. The first two were to do with being lost in space and finding a way to land, the next few (aside from the fillers) were wrapping up the replicator arc (which involved them killing a boatload of people), then the ones after that were to do with the Michael arc. I think s4 at least would have had a different tone regardless of whether Elizabeth was there or not, but her absence definitely highlighted it.

                  Now s5, if we're to look at the concept of the episodes as written (obviously some things would change with Weir as leader), then probably not a huge amount would have been different. A few of the episodes looked like they were tailor-made for a Weir-type character. And frankly, if they had to go back to Earth, I'd have liked it to be Weir telling Sheppard to keep firing on the super!hive (but if we can have "if's", then they'd have either tossed a naquadah generator through the wormhole at the midway point, or just parked a jumper in stargate operations and fired a boatload of drones through. Heh. Guess that's what happens when you send your military commander back to earth, eh?)

                  Carter should never have been there. Until today I am not able to understand what was the point of having Elizabeth replaced by Carter, when, if we look back now, Carter was not there in half of the episodes of the season. If they wanted to make episodes in which the leaders of Atlantis would not always show up, they could have done it with Elizabeth there. You are right, S5 would have been much better with Liz, certain situations would definitely happen differently, and definitely certain scenes would have been more powerful if it had been Elizabeth dealing with the situations.
                  There have been a lot of good ideas raised about how they could have had Carter there, as well as Elizabeth, or even instead of Elizabeth. But the problem was they wanted Carter to be everyone's buddy, so she held back on the military stuff, held back on the science stuff too, and held back on the leadership moments too. Also, I think another misstep was that they looked at At's limited availability/screentime and decided to limit her episodes instead of just evening out her screentime over the entire season.

                  There were episodes that would have benefited from her being there *cough*joining the Midway/SGC 'rescue'*cough for a few scenes instead of having her there for a wasted episode *cough*Trio*vomit*.

                  And just doing some minor tweaks - like in BAMSR putting her in a montage helping Rodney instead of her pushing 'fire' on the Deadalus before the "I'm the best Atlantis leader EVAH, holla!!!!!" scene with Ellis (same screentime, infinitely more useful)



                  Originally posted by luisa_ View Post
                  Hi everyone. Never been in this thread 'cause I'n not a fan of shipping.
                  But I made this video and I think this could be the right place to post it.
                  It wasn't in my intention to make a shipping video, but at last it looks like.

                  You have to watch it pretending it was never happend what happened before the episode Lifeline and you never saw the episode The Progeny.

                  It's long more than 7 minutes. I hope you like it.

                  https://vimeo.com/56639827
                  Hi Welcome to the thread. I'll be honest and say I won't watch that for a few weeks because it will put me over my data cap But I will watch it because everyone else seems to like it
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by luisa_ View Post
                    When I say I'n not a shipping fan I mean I'm not a fan of love story between John and Elisabeth, or Teyla or someone else in SGA (as Rodney and Dr Keller). I like the Travellers episode, but also I like it stopped there.

                    But, I really like the feeling between John and Elisabeth as great friendship. They take care of each other without being involved in the situations that involves a love story. I think even in RL sometimes it's stronger and lasting the friendship than love.
                    I think this is one of the reasons that makes Sparky so rich and heart-warming. Many on-screen ships go beyond platonic, but John and Elizabeth don't need that. They don't need a romantic relationship to prove themselves to each other. The bond they share is already so strong, and whether it was during times of hardship or times of laughter, it was enough for them to know that they would always be at each other's side for comfort and companionship.
                    sigpic
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                      Carter should never have been there. Until today I am not able to understand what was the point of having Elizabeth replaced by Carter, when, if we look back now, Carter was not there in half of the episodes of the season. If they wanted to make episodes in which the leaders of Atlantis would not always show up, they could have done it with Elizabeth there. You are right, S5 would have been much better with Liz, certain situations would definitely happen differently, and definitely certain scenes would have been more powerful if it had been Elizabeth dealing with the situations.

                      I'm going to be the old cynic here and make the suggestion that TPTW and suggest the reason that Carter was brought in was because SG-1 was over and they wanted the SG-1 audience - and sacrificed Elizabeth for that.

                      The one good thing about S4 and S5 was Sheppard. He spent the entire time looking and acting how we felt.


                      There are a lot of other people who agree with us on this.



                      Oh my gosh, just look at Elizabeth's face here!!!![/QUOTE]
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                        Apologies for above post. I wanted to use part of yuor reply Pearl and ended up butchering it!! Still trying to get used to all of this.
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                          No worries,Annelantis.

                          You'll be able to get into your controls now and edit your posts.

                          Have fun!
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                            Hello Bagpuss
                            Just confirming, you have to have at least 2000 posts before you can have a custom avatar? Is that right? (it takes forever! lol. I want to match my sig)
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                              Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                              I agree with you, but to be completely fair to TPTW, they altered the tone of the episodes at the start of s4. The first two were to do with being lost in space and finding a way to land, the next few (aside from the fillers) were wrapping up the replicator arc (which involved them killing a boatload of people), then the ones after that were to do with the Michael arc. I think s4 at least would have had a different tone regardless of whether Elizabeth was there or not, but her absence definitely highlighted it.
                              Yeah, they made a big deal of the whole new "darker" tone of S4. Some of us joked that making it darker didn't mean they had to turn off the lights because it looked like that's just what they did. JF has always said that he liked the darker tone, but that is one of the few statements he's made that I disagreed with. I don't see what was so good about it. I liked my old shiny bright Atlantis. *hates change*

                              Now s5, if we're to look at the concept of the episodes as written (obviously some things would change with Weir as leader), then probably not a huge amount would have been different. A few of the episodes looked like they were tailor-made for a Weir-type character. And frankly, if they had to go back to Earth, I'd have liked it to be Weir telling Sheppard to keep firing on the super!hive (but if we can have "if's", then they'd have either tossed a naquadah generator through the wormhole at the midway point, or just parked a jumper in stargate operations and fired a boatload of drones through. Heh. Guess that's what happens when you send your military commander back to earth, eh?)



                              There have been a lot of good ideas raised about how they could have had Carter there, as well as Elizabeth, or even instead of Elizabeth. But the problem was they wanted Carter to be everyone's buddy, so she held back on the military stuff, held back on the science stuff too, and held back on the leadership moments too. Also, I think another misstep was that they looked at At's limited availability/screentime and decided to limit her episodes instead of just evening out her screentime over the entire season.

                              There were episodes that would have benefited from her being there *cough*joining the Midway/SGC 'rescue'*cough for a few scenes instead of having her there for a wasted episode *cough*Trio*vomit*.

                              And just doing some minor tweaks - like in BAMSR putting her in a montage helping Rodney instead of her pushing 'fire' on the Deadalus before the "I'm the best Atlantis leader EVAH, holla!!!!!" scene with Ellis (same screentime, infinitely more useful)
                              There were scenes in S4 that would have worked just as well if AT had stepped aside and TH stepped in. The dialogue, the attitude, all of it were the same. The parts when they had Carter all buddy buddy and eating with the team just made my blood boil. Why do that now with someone who had barely arrived when they didn't do any of that in 3 years with Elizabeth? The way Carter was written not only was an insult to Weir but an insult to Carter, and I'm sure some of her fans must have wondered who this was and what had they done with Sam?


                              Hi Welcome to the thread. I'll be honest and say I won't watch that for a few weeks because it will put me over my data cap But I will watch it because everyone else seems to like it
                              Data cap? You're gonna have to 'splain that one to me.

                              Originally posted by Sparks of Atlantis View Post
                              I think this is one of the reasons that makes Sparky so rich and heart-warming. Many on-screen ships go beyond platonic, but John and Elizabeth don't need that. They don't need a romantic relationship to prove themselves to each other. The bond they share is already so strong, and whether it was during times of hardship or times of laughter, it was enough for them to know that they would always be at each other's side for comfort and companionship.
                              This is exactly true and I think one of the reasons this ship has lasted so long and is bringing in new devotees every time there is a airing of the show. Sparky does not and never did depend on "omgtheyaresohawttogether" or bring out shippers who are just interested in the physical aspects or even the twoo wuv aspects of the relationship. We had a couple that had a deep and abiding friendship that never turned into more on screen. The angsty bittersweet elements were off the charts, and that is just the kind of stuff that makes shippers swoon.

                              Originally posted by Annelantis View Post
                              Carter should never have been there. Until today I am not able to understand what was the point of having Elizabeth replaced by Carter, when, if we look back now, Carter was not there in half of the episodes of the season. If they wanted to make episodes in which the leaders of Atlantis would not always show up, they could have done it with Elizabeth there. You are right, S5 would have been much better with Liz, certain situations would definitely happen differently, and definitely certain scenes would have been more powerful if it had been Elizabeth dealing with the situations.

                              I'm going to be the old cynic here and make the suggestion that TPTW and suggest the reason that Carter was brought in was because SG-1 was over and they wanted the SG-1 audience - and sacrificed Elizabeth for that.

                              The one good thing about S4 and S5 was Sheppard. He spent the entire time looking and acting how we felt.


                              There are a lot of other people who agree with us on this.



                              Oh my gosh, just look at Elizabeth's face here!!!!
                              You're right. This was the wrong role for Carter. Essentially it turned her into another character, and we saw little of the scientist/soldier we had grown to like and respect in SG-1. Various bits of info have come out at cons over the years since the cancellation, and now we know that AT was brought over to fulfill the last year on her contract. They did think all her SG-1 fans would come along for the ride, but made the huge mistake of writing her as Weirlite. Bad idea all the way around. They were planning to keep her, but AT left to do Sanctuary.

                              They also tried to diminish any reaction to losing Elizabeth, and if not for JF, would never have mentioned her again. Thank you Joe, forever and always. Joe is very loyal to his friends and many times stuck his neck out to act as a go between with the cast and TPTB. Even though by S4 they had cut him out of the loop, so to speak, he still went to them and complained loud and long about how they should put in some mention of Elizabeth. They added a couple of little things but never could stop him from making that special Elizabeth face. And he is still saying at cons that she got treated badly. Now that's loyalty.
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                              Visit us at SGA Rising for our version of season six.

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                                Originally posted by mandogater View Post
                                i know what you mean. To me even the city looked like it was in morning for elizabeth in season 4. I've always thought of her as the soul of atlantis and john as the heart. Things kept going only because the heart (john) didn't give out.

                                Elizabeth looks so smitten in that pic.
                                Oh, that’s really beautiful, having Elizabeth as the soul of Atlantis and John as the heart. I have never thought about it that way before, but i definitely agree with it.

                                Originally posted by gateraid View Post
                                i agree with you, but to be completely fair to tptw, they altered the tone of the episodes at the start of s4. The first two were to do with being lost in space and finding a way to land, the next few (aside from the fillers) were wrapping up the replicator arc (which involved them killing a boatload of people), then the ones after that were to do with the michael arc. I think s4 at least would have had a different tone regardless of whether elizabeth was there or not, but her absence definitely highlighted it.

                                Now s5, if we're to look at the concept of the episodes as written (obviously some things would change with weir as leader), then probably not a huge amount would have been different. A few of the episodes looked like they were tailor-made for a weir-type character. And frankly, if they had to go back to earth, i'd have liked it to be weir telling sheppard to keep firing on the super!hive (but if we can have "if's", then they'd have either tossed a naquadah generator through the wormhole at the midway point, or just parked a jumper in stargate operations and fired a boatload of drones through. Heh. Guess that's what happens when you send your military commander back to earth, eh?)



                                there have been a lot of good ideas raised about how they could have had carter there, as well as elizabeth, or even instead of elizabeth. But the problem was they wanted carter to be everyone's buddy, so she held back on the military stuff, held back on the science stuff too, and held back on the leadership moments too. Also, i think another misstep was that they looked at at's limited availability/screentime and decided to limit her episodes instead of just evening out her screentime over the entire season.

                                There were episodes that would have benefited from her being there *cough*joining the midway/sgc 'rescue'*cough for a few scenes instead of having her there for a wasted episode *cough*trio*vomit*.

                                And just doing some minor tweaks - like in bamsr putting her in a montage helping rodney instead of her pushing 'fire' on the deadalus before the "i'm the best atlantis leader evah, holla!!!!!" scene with ellis (same screentime, infinitely more useful)
                                I think they could have altered the tones of the episodes with Elizabeth there.

                                Things would change with Elizabeth as the leader in S5 because Elizabeth had power, she had pulse, she was the only one strong enough to keep things going in Atlantis, and interesting too. Woolsey was a little bit pathetic in certain situations, and it seemed that people even made fun of him. I mean he wasn’t strong, he was just there, he wasn’t a true leader.

                                Spoiler:
                                If Elizabeth would have been there in S5 she would not send John to Earth, even if General O’Neil had resquested it, i mean it is a bit stupid to have the military commander to be the one leaving the base in such an important moment. I am sure she would have fight for him not to go. And there is one thing to me that never made sense, i mean when they called John to go to Earth to seat at the chair, didn’t they know already that the chair was no longer in Antarctica? Were they planning to fire it from Area 51, was that even possible?


                                If we truly look at it, Carter was really never in Elizabeth’s place. But i agree that they could have worked a way to keep both of them on S4. By using Carter the way they did in S4 it only downgradred her, IMO. In my opinion Elizabeth was everybody’s buddy, i mean everyone seemed to like her and be her friend, but she always kept her place on a professional level, it didn’t happen the same with Carter. Carter stopped being Carter when she stopped doing her stuff in S4. And maybe that’s one of the reasons i never liked her there. They held Carter back in everything, i mean she wasn’t even the leader, a strong leader or a leader like Elizabeth, there. If they knew AT’s avaiability was limited, why did they decide to put her in the place of Elizabeth? That was stupid.

                                Originally posted by annelantis View Post
                                I'm going to be the old cynic here and make the suggestion that tptw and suggest the reason that carter was brought in was because sg-1 was over and they wanted the sg-1 audience - and sacrificed elizabeth for that.

                                The one good thing about s4 and s5 was sheppard. He spent the entire time looking and acting how we felt.
                                They brought Carter to SGA because SG1 was over and they still needed her to be put somewhere. But they shouldn’t have done it the way they did. And they specially shouldn’t have sacrificed Elizabeth because of that.

                                I loved the way John always showed us how he was feeling in S4 and S5, in a way it was because of him that i didn’t stop watching SGA then.
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