Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

*sends hugs and virtual chocolate to drewandian*

Spoilers for SyFy's 20th Anniversary Special:

Spoiler:

Some fans were in an uproar that no actors from SGA were being interviewed on the special. However, they showed footage from "Rising" and the only two SGA actors that were shown? Joe Flanigan and Torri Higginson.

Oh, and Ben Browder looks like a 70's porn star with his mustache. *starts twitching*

Oh really? I'd also heard that there wasn't going to be anyone from SGA on, and thus decided not to watch either. Whadda'ya know? We had a stealth cameo after all! AHAHAHAHAHA! Suck on it, haters!

[Sequoia Hope]

Oooo, discussion! \o/ I have read (almost) all the commentary, but rather than quote I'll just throw in a few thoughts.

In TRW, the nanites manipulated Elizabeth to try and assimilate her presumably in the best way possible to weaken her. So from my perspective, if the same were to happen to John it wouldn't be a mental hospital. In Progeny, we saw John's 'torture', which was being unable to save Atlantis, requiring a sacrifice of himself. And in Doppelganger and Remnants, we saw John's worst enemies--his own guilt/darkness. I think if the nanites were looking to weaken him, it would have been in a situation where he was alone, not in a world where Atlantis didn't exist, but where it had been destroyed. What would have broken the curse would have been the presence of Elizabeth and the others reaching through to him, letting in subtle hints that Atlantis was still out there.

On the outside, Elizabeth definitely never would have left him. But reaching him, it wouldn't have been her, I think. I think it would have been Rodney, since it would have been a more humorous exchange than sentimental. Then again, Elizabeth's face was the last one he saw in Progeny, so maybe the writers would have gone there.

As to CG--you guys give Kolya a lot of credit. I think he would have let the Wraith feed on Elizabeth at least once in front of John to shake him up. From what I gathered, Elizabeth was a pawn in his game in TS/TE, who was spared only because Rodney argued for her worth, not because he was 'nice'. I never believed he wasn't going to kill her and I think Rodney really did save her life. It was Sora, not Kolya, who showed sympathy to the 'Atlanteans' and proved the voice of reason. All the subsequent losses--the 60+ men, "The Brotherhood" and the coup--just added to his reasons to hate John and Atlantis.

In CG, Kolya was using John as a means to an end. He had no idea Todd would give John the gift of life back, so he wasn't being merciful. He was slowly torturing them both. If the roles were reversed, I actually think he might have worked faster--he'd seen how John reacted during the storm situation when Weir was 'killed'. He knew it would shake John up. The again, I don't know if John would have been there to see that. I think he would have been out searching frantically however he could, pushing on people however he could, very recklessly.

So, to ShipperWriter's most excellent question!



I certainly think each of them would've handled being in the other's shoes differently.

The Real World

John: I agree with some of the other comments that have been made that John would've found himself in a very different kind of scenario than Elizabeth did. Could've been a military situation, and in fact, I think what happened in Phantoms does illustrate to an extent how a "John in TRW nanite world" might have gone. And it could have been anyone who got past the nanites to reach him. Elizabeth would've likely seemed too shippy-- whereas having John be the one reach her as he did in the episode can simply be interpreted as 'well, he's the military guy, of course he's gonna go charging in.' Teyla would've seemed shippy as well, but again, they went there in Phantoms. Rodney would've been an interesting way to shake up their dynamic, as we've seen before when the chips are down, Rodney has stepped up and done some pretty brave things. Ronon could've appealed to their common background as soldiers, to keep fighting. And SR, I got a kick out of you suggesting that Kolya could've been John's shadow stalker!

Elizabeth: I think her reaction in Conversion points the way to how Elizabeth would've reacted. She does have a city to run, so she probably couldn't be there all the time as John was, but she would've been there when it was important. Hell, she was the only one who had the guts to go visit John in his quarters twice while he was going buggy, heedless of the potential danger to herself, so I can see the possibility of her breaking quarantine. But on the other hand, I think the practical part of her would have probably held her back from going that far.

Common Ground

John: It's been a couple of years since The Storm/The Eye and John's brashness has been tempered somewhat in that time. On the other hand, it's KOLYA, and whenever it comes to the hero being pitted against his greatest arch enemy (as Kolya was definitely being played up to be), all bets are off. I don't think he would've been content to sit and wait; he's hardwired for taking action. I can picture John agreeing to a deal, but pulling a double cross as he did at the end of Underground. I'm betting Ronon and Rodney would probably have his back on anything he tried to do, but Teyla would likely counsel a more measured path as Elizabeth would. (more Elizabeth/Teyla BFF love!)

Elizabeth: Here's the part where I think things might have gone more like they did in the episode. Like John, she would've given instructions not to negotiate, and I think she might well have also tried to reach out to Todd...she is a diplomat, it's in her blood to negotiate. And the idea of Todd calling Elizabeth a Queen would've been a hoot! I think Kolya would have let Todd feed on her, at least once, to show Sheppard that he meant business. Hey, Kolya had no problem with killing her in TS/TE, it was only Rodney's insistence that she was necessary to saving the city that stayed Kolya's hand. And after seeing what happened when his bluff that he'd gone ahead and killed Elizabeth was called, I think this time Kolya would want to make sure that John actually saw Elizabeth being fed on, so that John would know that Kolya wasn't bluffing. Would Kolya have stopped at just the one feeding? I don't know. As we saw in the episode, Kolya was definitely disturbed by the sight of John being fed on, and I don't think he would be any less disturbed if it was Elizabeth. I'd say it's a toss-up.

These are all very excellent points! I just bolded some lines that caught my attention and rather agree with.

And ROTFL at the idea of Todd calling Elizabeth a Queen.

We really should have thought-provoking questions like these more often.

Spoilers for SyFy's 20th Anniversary Special:

Spoiler:

Some fans were in an uproar that no actors from SGA were being interviewed on the special. However, they showed footage from "Rising" and the only two SGA actors that were shown? Joe Flanigan and Torri Higginson.

Oh, and Ben Browder looks like a 70's porn star with his mustache. *starts twitching*

Downloading some new graphics. We'll see if the motivation for any artwork surfaces before bed.

Oh, and I got ambushed by a vid bunny on the way home. Not sure if I could get away with it, though, and I would like to finish my BlackHawk vid before I start anything else ...

*smirks in self-satisfaction*

[Southern Red]

*sends hugs and virtual chocolate to drewandian*



Oh really? I'd also heard that there wasn't going to be anyone from SGA on, and thus decided not to watch either. Whadda'ya know? We had a stealth cameo after all! AHAHAHAHAHA! Suck on it, haters!

I can just imagine all the heads exploding when they saw that. ROTFLMAO! So, does this mean SyFy sees Sparky as the symbol for SGA? Does anybody know which clip they showed?

[Eri13]

*sends hugs and virtual chocolate to drewandian*

Oh really? I'd also heard that there wasn't going to be anyone from SGA on, and thus decided not to watch either. Whadda'ya know? We had a stealth cameo after all! AHAHAHAHAHA! Suck on it, haters!

Um, I have nothing relevant to contribute other than to say those are the BEST. SMILIES. EVER.

[ShipperWriter]

I can just imagine all the heads exploding when they saw that. ROTFLMAO! So, does this mean SyFy sees Sparky as the symbol for SGA? Does anybody know which clip they showed?

Elizabeth in the control room with Jack and Daniel, getting the "off you go" nod from Jack. Elizabeth stepping through the 'Gate. John stepping into Atlantis for the first time. It wasn't a "Sparky" clip, but they were the only two cast members they showed. I don't think we even saw anyone from SGU, but I wasn't really paying attention.

[Eri13]

I can just imagine all the heads exploding when they saw that. ROTFLMAO! So, does this mean SyFy sees Sparky as the symbol for SGA? Does anybody know which clip they showed?

Oh yes. Personally I think the staff at Syfy was in love with Elizabeth. I'll never forget when I was most into SGA, right after the events of First Strike and the news Torri was not returning, that Syfy did this little compilation music video set to Matchbox 20's "How Far We've Come" using clips from all their original programming. SGA had a pretty big part in it and the focus of most of those clips was Elizabeth. I think all the SGA fans were like 'um, you do know she's NOT coming back in S4."

Syfy vid promo makers did not care. She was pretty and had good drama faces and her hair was fluffy when she turned and it fit the video.

[gateraid]

I'm back and glad to see the postathon went well but so sorry to have missed it.

I was just thinking a bit about ShipperWriter's question on the reversal of roles for John and Elizabeth in TRW and CG.

TRW: I think just about anyone that John might have imagined, up to and including Rodney and Ronon, would have been shippy to at least a few viewers. There is a good argument for making it Rodney. I can easily see him talking to John about how he hated to admit it, but the city did need him so he needed to wake up already. Of course, Rodney would have ended up making it all about him somehow. Also I agree with whoever else said John would probably be in a military situation like in Phantoms.

Rodney would have worked because they would have come up with some technobabble way of communicating. But somehow it still would have been shippy

I can also imagine his mystery stalker being Kolya, who would be taunting him and telling him about how he was taking over the city and there was nothing he could do about it.

CG: This is a hard one. I don't think Kolya would have let Todd feed on Elizabeth, but he sure would have teased her and John with the idea. I think he would have brought Todd out but pulled him away from her at the last minute. And John would have moved heaven and earth to get her back, perhaps even being a bit rash and having to get a good talking to from his team. Teyla would have been the clear head who reminded John of what Elizabeth would want him to do, and I think John would have had her do the negotiating with Ladon.

John would have gotten a bit stirred up, But in order for it to have been Elizabeth, the likelihood would be that it would be via a mistake of his that she got captured, so this would compound things (either that or Lorne is spending some time in the brig). True, it's possible Teyla may have been the one negotiating, if only to give the rest of team shep time to mount a rescue

S-minus 1 hour until Common Ground! And, minor crisis has been averted, I will be joining you on time today.



Wouldn't surprise me. She is awesome, after all.



Kinda like how some of us have suggested that John was able to get past the nanites in TRW because of his mad ATA gene skillz?

Not quite. I suggested the wraith thing as fudging, even though I find it completely implausible. The nanite/ATA thing is actually plausible (sort of, it depends on when you're saying their "don't harm the ancients" programming was changed), it's just that I don't believe that was their intention

So, that's three in the bird bath... I'll bring the sunflower seeds.

We're gonna need a bigger bath

Oh, so that's where she went... ...Please be so kind as to send her back. Thank you!

She's all yours, no question, I just borrowed her for a bit

Kinda like how Goa'uld was pronounced in a gazillion different ways.

Some of that was just RDA's laziness (bless him, no offence intended)

[Southern Red]

Elizabeth in the control room with Jack and Daniel, getting the "off you go" nod from Jack. Elizabeth stepping through the 'Gate. John stepping into Atlantis for the first time. It wasn't a "Sparky" clip, but they were the only two cast members they showed. I don't think we even saw anyone from SGU, but I wasn't really paying attention.

Thanks. It comes on again in the wee dark hours later in the week, so I might DVR it and FF to that part.

I'm glad they at least recognized who the leads were.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Thanks. It comes on again in the wee dark hours later in the week, so I might DVR it and FF to that part.

I'm glad they at least recognized who the leads were.

Have to be thankful for that!

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

And ROTFL at the idea of Todd calling Elizabeth a Queen.

We really should have thought-provoking questions like these more often.

Yes, yes we should.

Um, I have nothing relevant to contribute other than to say those are the BEST. SMILIES. EVER.

Heeheehee! The moment I read that the lone SGA clip featured John and Elizabeth, I knew the "Sparky in a mocking mood" smilies had to make an appearance.

I can just imagine all the heads exploding when they saw that. ROTFLMAO! So, does this mean SyFy sees Sparky as the symbol for SGA? Does anybody know which clip they showed?

*giggles at heads exploding*

Elizabeth in the control room with Jack and Daniel, getting the "off you go" nod from Jack. Elizabeth stepping through the 'Gate. John stepping into Atlantis for the first time. It wasn't a "Sparky" clip, but they were the only two cast members they showed. I don't think we even saw anyone from SGU, but I wasn't really paying attention.

Heh.

Oh yes. Personally I think the staff at Syfy was in love with Elizabeth. I'll never forget when I was most into SGA, right after the events of First Strike and the news Torri was not returning, that Syfy did this little compilation music video set to Matchbox 20's "How Far We've Come" using clips from all their original programming. SGA had a pretty big part in it and the focus of most of those clips was Elizabeth. I think all the SGA fans were like 'um, you do know she's NOT coming back in S4."

Syfy vid promo makers did not care. She was pretty and had good drama faces and her hair was fluffy when she turned and it fit the video.

Hee, Lizzeh (along with John) always had the best hair. Even when it was that limp, straight bob in Rising, it was still hot.

[ShipperWriter]

Oh yes. Personally I think the staff at Syfy was in love with Elizabeth. I'll never forget when I was most into SGA, right after the events of First Strike and the news Torri was not returning, that Syfy did this little compilation music video set to Matchbox 20's "How Far We've Come" using clips from all their original programming. SGA had a pretty big part in it and the focus of most of those clips was Elizabeth. I think all the SGA fans were like 'um, you do know she's NOT coming back in S4."

Syfy vid promo makers did not care. She was pretty and had good drama faces and her hair was fluffy when she turned and it fit the video.

Heh.

Thanks. It comes on again in the wee dark hours later in the week, so I might DVR it and FF to that part.

I'm glad they at least recognized who the leads were.

Amen.

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Yes, yes we should.

Heeheehee! The moment I read that the lone SGA clip featured John and Elizabeth, I knew the "Sparky in a mocking mood" smilies had to make an appearance.

*giggles at heads exploding*

Heh.

Hee, Lizzeh (along with John) always had the best hair. Even when it was that limp, straight bob in Rising, it was still hot.

Umm-hmm. Though I gotta say, I liked the straight bob better than her S1 hair.

*bell rings*

Be back later. If I don't faint from this dizzy spell.

[Scary Kitty]

Umm-hmm. Though I gotta say, I liked the straight bob better than her S1 hair.

Yup. But the long and curly look in early S3 and S4 was THE BEST EVER.

*bell rings*

Be back later. If I don't faint from this dizzy spell.

Oh noes! I hope you feel better soon! *passes over some smelling salts*

[Sparky She-Demon]

Here's the smutty chapter chapter in my SGA Sparky Story, "The World Goes On":

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7450657/8/The-World-Goes-On

[ShipperWriter]

Yup. But the long and curly look in early S3 and S4 was THE BEST EVER.

Oh noes! I hope you feel better soon! *passes over some smelling salts*

Yes, S3-4 hair rocked!

And I'm feeling better, thanks! I think my blood pressure was low. Should've eaten more for breakfast, I guess.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Glad you're feeling better!