Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[mandogater]

Speaking of which, I had Starbucks for dinner tonight. Heh.

Oh, I am so making a sig with that for the rest of the month.

Be my guest, young Padawan.

[ShipperWriter]

Be my guest, young Padawan.

*groans* I've gotten spoiled on this thread. NCIS pics are much harder to find ... grr ...

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

*groans* I've gotten spoiled on this thread. NCIS pics are much harder to find ... grr ...

is that right *Probie* *smirks and just laughs to himself*

[Sparky She-Demon]

I'm just wondering what is the ratio of women and men on gateworld?

[ShipperWriter]

is that right *Probie* *smirks and just laughs to himself*

*sends glare in your direction, then writes program to hack into your computer*

[JT-2]

I'm going by what I saw in Rising at the very beginning... and I've read a couple of good fics back in the day. And there are those that flirt with the idea (I've done that myself with that Long Goodbye tag I wrote). It just depends, I guess...

Then again, I am a multishipper to the core. Heck, I can even appreciate a little McShep and I'm not even into slash-fic (even if I did once write Kavanagh/McKay, which was a bizarre moment in my fanfic-writing days , but I kinda liked it nevertheless).

Absolutely. Good writing is the key. Hey, I actually liked Keller and thought McKeller was sweet in SGA-Rising. I disliked both passionately on screen.

[MentallyUnstableFox]

It's kind of late, but I hope that everyone's had a happy Thanksgiving!

Oh, and here's a continuation of what I had started writing. I included the last few lines from last time as to refresh everyone's memory.

Spoiler:

John let out a heavy sigh. “You think she’ll be ok?” he asked Carson.

Carson, too, gave a sigh of resignation. “I don’t know,” he admitted, a hint of worry in his reply. “I’m sure that given some time, she’ll be all right. But this has certainly hit her the hardest.”

John just nodded, not responding, and the two men stood together in a heavy silence.

“Come on,” Carson finally said after a long moment. “We’d best get back.” Reluctantly, John trudged after Carson back to the SGC, not looking back at the point down the road where the taxi had already vanished from their view.

*****

Rodney was miserable. It wasn’t that he hated his job -- ok, fine, he did hate his job. He found his current projects to be utterly unsatisfying, but he found the fact that he could barely put up with his new colleagues to be even more sufferable. They were nothing like the people he had worked with in Atlantis. Sure, their level of intellect was high enough that they could, for the most part, keep up with everything he said, but they were too simple-minded and lacked the ability to think outside the box. Too often, they appeared to be novices at their craft and sought Rodney for his guidance. They probably spent more time lauding, “Doctor McKay, you’re a genius” or “Doctor, I hope I can one day be even a fraction of the scientist you are” than actually working. If it was under any other circumstances, Rodney probably wouldn’t have minded how people eulogized him so much; in fact, he would have probably found it flattering. In this case, though, it did nothing to help boost his already massive ego, and it was becoming rather annoying.

Rodney would never admit it out loud, but he missed Atlantis a lot more than he thought he would. He missed the job he had, and he missed the people he worked with. He would never have thought that he would find himself wishing that Radek was there so he could argue with him.

After five weeks, Rodney had had enough. He needed a break from work. Flipping open his cell phone, he dialed a familiar number.

“Hey, Carson... Yeah, I’m fine... You?... Oh, that’s good to hear... Hey, look, I was thinking of taking a break and flying in this weekend... How long? Um, probably two, three days tops... Maybe we could do some catching up?... Dinner? Um, sure, why not? I’m always in a good mood when there’s food involved... Hey, you think you could get Sheppard to come?... All right... Ok, great.” Rodney paused for a moment, contemplating a question. “Hey, just out of curiosity, have you heard from Elizabeth, by any chance?... No?... Well, I just thought how, you know, she’s still in town, and maybe you’ve bumped into her at the SGC... No?... All right, well, thanks anyway... Hey, I’ll give you a call after I buy my flight ticket... Ok... Yeah. Bye.”

Rodney snapped his phone shut. He stared at it for a moment before shoving it into his pocket. He then turned around to survey his lab.

Cold. Empty. Desolate.

Rodney stood there for a long time with his hands stuffed in his pockets.

*****

It didn’t really matter where a doctor worked; as long as Carson was taking care of others and saving lives, he was happy. He found his job to be not too different from the one he had back in Atlantis, and the people he worked with were about the same, too. They were kind and welcoming and skilled in their profession, and Carson was pleasantly surprised to see several other familiar faces who had also taken a position at the SGC after Atlantis. Getting reacquainted with people he already knew and having the chance to work with new colleagues as well was a blessing, and he didn’t find it too difficult to adjust to a new life on Earth.

As content as he was with his new job, though, Carson wasn’t one to forget his old friends. He would once in a while eat a meal with John, knowing that the solitary Colonel didn’t have many friends at the SGC and appreciated the company. Occasionally, he would also chat with Rodney over the phone. The poor man sounded miserable with his new job, but who could blame him? He listened to him complain largely about his new colleagues, “sycophants,” he called them. Carson couldn’t help but chuckle at how Rodney found the fawning rather irritating, yet he also felt sorry for his friend at the same time.

It was five weeks in when he received a phone call from Rodney: he would be flying in next week for a visit. Carson smiled at the prospect of seeing a good friend again as he ended the call and set his phone back on the table. He then turned his attention back to his research in the quiet lab he was in. Something Rodney had asked before he hung up lingered in the back of his mind, but he tried not to let it bother him too much.

Some time later, Carson exited the lab and headed for the commissary for a break. He rounded a corner and nearly collided into General O’Neill.

“Oh, excuse me, General,” Carson quickly apologized. “Didn’t expect to run into you here.”

“That’s quite all right, Doctor,” General O’Neill replied, dismissing the matter. “You’re not looking for Doctor Weir, are you?”

That caught Carson’s attention. “Doctor Weir?” he asked incredulously.

“Yeah.” General O’Neill seemed slightly puzzled at Carson’s confusion. “She’s been here all day, though she decided to go home for lunch instead -- I suppose she thought that her own cooking was better than the SGC’s.” He paused for a moment, frowning as he mulled over his thoughts. “She seemed a bit distant, though, if you ask me.”

“Is she still here?” Carson demanded.

“I just spoke with her.” General O’Neill jerked his thumb down the hall behind him. “She said she needed to leave. Kind of seemed anxious to get out of here. Can’t say I blame her -- she probably attended six hours worth of meetings today. But if you hurry, you might be able to catch up to her before she leaves.”

Carson let the information sink in. “All right. Thank you, General.”

As soon as General O’Neill disappeared around the corner, Carson broke into a sprint for the nearest stairway.

*****

Off-world missions never got old, even if they were in the Milky Way. You travel to another planet, and half the time, things ended badly. Badly as in they lost their food supplies. Or broke their radios. Or accidentally shot themselves in the foot. Literally.

Compared to the way missions in the Pegasus Galaxy ended badly, this was very sad.

John tried to make the best of the circumstances, but he knew that his new team would never measure up to the one he worked with in Atlantis. They were nowhere near as experienced, and unaccustomed to his laid-back way of command, they seemed insecure about how to behave around him. John couldn’t form a bond with them like the one he had formed with Rodney and the Pegasus natives. We should have left Teyla and Ronon a laptop, he frustratingly thought. It wouldn’t have been too difficult to teach them how to use e-mail or Skype. John smirked at the thought of someone catching him talking to them on the computer. “Who are you talking to?” “Some friends. They’re in another galaxy.” “Ok…”

It wasn’t all completely bad, though. Carson occasionally found him in the commissary and ate with him, and he appreciated the small company. But he still couldn’t help but feel that dinner would be much more enjoyable if the whole team was there. There was no way to stay in touch with Teyla and Ronon, and though Rodney called periodically, Elizabeth didn’t. In fact, he hadn’t heard from Elizabeth at all.

His thoughts were on his friends as he sat alone in the commissary with a cup of coffee the fifth week back from Atlantis. As John looked up, he saw Carson enter the room, and he watched him go make himself a cup of tea before coming over to join him at the table.

“Hey, Doc,” he greeted Carson. “What’s up?”

Carson made himself comfortable before responding. “Well,” he began, “I just got a call from Rodney earlier. He said he’s planning on flying in next week. I thought that we could take him out to dinner.”

John gulped down some coffee. “Mmmm, sounds like a good idea,” he said as he put his cup down. “Be nice to see McKay again after all these weeks. Any particular restaurant in mind?” he queried.

“At the moment, no, not yet,” Carson replied. “Though I have to say that I think either seafood or barbeque grill would be splendid,” he said.

“Sounds good to me,” John agreed.

“Aye.” Carson took a sip of his tea, looking thoughtful before he spoke again.

“There’s something else I need to tell you,” he said in a low voice, his expression suddenly serious. “I just spoke with General O’Neill. Did you know that Elizabeth was here today?”

John’s glass was to his lips, and he nearly choked on his coffee. “What?”

Carson sighed. “I thought you probably might not have known. She was here all day except for lunch.”

John folded his arms across his chest and slumped back in his seat. He rubbed his eyes tiredly, his concern for Elizabeth now even more potent. He would have thought that if she dropped by the SGC, she would have come to see them, but now... it seemed as if she was deliberately trying to avoid them.

Carson looked like he was about to say something, then changed his mind when he realized that there was nothing that he could say to say to lift the melancholy mood. He, too, was quiet as he blankly stared across the room, one elbow propped on the table, chin resting in his hand.

“Rodney was wondering about her earlier,” he finally said, giving a long sigh.

John didn’t say anything.

Hope you all enjoyed it! I would appreciate any feedback I can get, but I do have a couple of specific questions to ask:

Spoiler:

I had some difficulties mostly with Carson and John's sections. I actually don't watch SG-1, so it was kind of tough for me to make sure General O'Neill was in character. I tried to remember some scenes in "The Return, Parts 1 and 2" and base my dialogue on the way he acted in them, but does anything about General O'Neill's behavior seem out of character? If so, please do tell me what I should change.

I also spent a long time writing the scene between John and Carson when Carson mentions that Elizabeth had been at the SGC. John's not one to talk about his feelings out loud, and if he doesn't openly express his concern, I don't think that Carson would say much either. Yet, I'm also afraid that there is too little dialogue there, and the ending also seems kind of abrupt to me. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could improve that section?

Feel free to comment on the forum or send me a PM. Thanks!

Woah, look at you! You are on fire with the awesome stories this week! I'm very behind in my SG1, but from what little I've seen, I think Jack was pretty good character-wise in this story. Just those little things SR pointed out earlier, but besides that, I really did love it! You rock.

[

...My life. They got AT and RDA to go to that Con and it's like, the same month as another con I REALLY want to go to...I am made to decide between the two Cons. Now if they got PMG to go to that Con, I'd have -no- trouble deciding...(major fangirl)

You poor thing! How does one decide between two levels of awesomeness?
Unfortunately, I don't think either Paul or Rachel will be able to go to this one. :'( Too bad, too, because from what I've seen of PMG in interviews and behind the scenes stuff, he seems like a really sweet person, and I wish I could meet him! *weeps*

[ShipperWriter]

Wish I had some new fic to show for my three days off of work, but unfortunately, no dice.

Heading off to bed, everybody have a good night!

[MentallyUnstableFox]

Hey Fox, have you read my little clip of the next chapter of my story?

Maybe..? I've missed a few pages so I have quite a bit of catching up to do. Could you tell me which page it's on, and I'll make sure to read it!

I'm wondering if other countries have something as crazy as Black Friday or is that strictly an American phenomenon?

Over here, our big "crazy sale day" is on Boxing Day (the day after Christmas), but, this year, they're trying to make Black Friday more of a Canadian thing, ("they" being whoever it is that makes the decisions for the country...oh wait...the government does) because people actually fly over to America for it, so they're probably thinking they can get Canadians to stay and spend here, to get that sort of phenomenon over here as well. *shrugs*

[Sparky She-Demon]

Maybe..? I've missed a few pages so I have quite a bit of catching up to do. Could you tell me which page it's on, and I'll make sure to read it!

It's on page 6475. I hope you like it!

[Sequoia Hope]

First of all, I liked this part very much. Everyone was very much in character

Spoiler:

including Jack. The part with John and Carson doesn't seem too short. I got the feeling that as soon as Carson mentioned that Elizabeth had been there, John just kind of closed down. He was probably puzzled and a bit hurt that she hadn't sought him out and wasn't sure what to say about it. I'm betting that when he left Carson, John did a lot of thinking about this new turn of events.

A couple of points, when Carson left Jack it seemed like he was going to go find Elizabeth. Had she already left? You don't make that clear.

You have John drinking coffee out of a glass. It should be a cup or a mug.

In the third to last paragraph, you wrote "he could say to say". I would remove the "to say" and it will be fine.

As you can see, just a few minor points that caught my eye. I didn't look for grammar or punctuation errors. Overall, you did a very good job.

Thanks so much for the tips.

Spoiler:

Yes, Elizabeth did already leave - I guess I was trying to imply that, but I was wondering myself if it was clear to the reader or not.

Woah, look at you! You are on fire with the awesome stories this week! I'm very behind in my SG1, but from what little I've seen, I think Jack was pretty good character-wise in this story. Just those little things SR pointed out earlier, but besides that, I really did love it! You rock.

Thanks, I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I guess I just had a sudden burst of inspiration this week and wrote like crazy, though it may be at least another week or so before my next update... my muse is burned out and must take a break. But what I write next should be interesting...

[gateraid]

You can shoot me for this but done well/written well they can be a just as much a great couple as any other. There, I said it.

I agree with this 100%. That's part of the reason Homecoming appalled me so much. But, and this is a big but, for me it mostly goes back to the lack of actor chemistry. I just couldn't see it on the show no matter how much they tried to make me believe it. But with Sparky, they didn't even try and after years of "move along, nothing to see here" they still haven't convinced me that it wasn't real. *iz stubborn*

The newer members probably wouldn't have heard me comment on the subject, but I've probably been the most vocal *grits teeth* supporter of Sheyla on this thread. I know what they were trying to do early on, the cave scene shows me that. There were hints here and there in s1 between the two (like, John getting Teyla's blessing to get power-cougared by Athar) as well as the odd anvil dropped by others (Bates having a tanty about his CO's "feelings"), as well as a very personal argument during LFP. They'd been burned with Sam/Jack in SG-1 (OMG, it's the ship that makes me hate shipping. They brought it up when they thought they had a season or two to go, but then it became this giant anchor that had to be dragged through every scene featuring the two of them. When they inserted it into Heroes Part II and didn't do anything with it, it made me want to throw something at the tv. I could go on....but this is not what I started harping on about ) It's my opinion that they continued baggage of Sam/Jack soured them against shipping too early, so for sheyla, they were going to drop some heavier anvils in s4, with a canonisation in s5 (when they thought the show would end - s6 at the latest (yes I know they thought the same thing about SG-1 but the likelihood of SGA continuing past s6 would have been very low indeed)).

The problem with this is, as has been mentioned, actor chemistry (and the lack of a show bible to remind writers to drop the odd hint). By putting the ship on the back burner for a couple of years, it relied on actor chemistry to 'carry it' until such time as they decided they were going to reactivate it. The multitude of ships for both John and Teyla would indicate that 'standby mode' turned out to be 'off'.

Absolutely. Good writing is the key. Hey, I actually liked Keller and thought McKeller was sweet in SGA-Rising. I disliked both passionately on screen.

There are maybe four crucial scenes from s4/early s5 that if I ignore, then I don't mind Keller at all. It helps in fic that I don't have to hear her speak, that voice didn't do much for me either.

Thanks so much for the tips.

Spoiler:

Yes, Elizabeth did already leave - I guess I was trying to imply that, but I was wondering myself if it was clear to the reader or not.

Thanks, I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I guess I just had a sudden burst of inspiration this week and wrote like crazy, though it may be at least another week or so before my next update... my muse is burned out and must take a break. But what I write next should be interesting...

Re Jack, perhaps he was a little talkative? I do like the fic though, it's very well written

[gateraid]

I'm not sure if this is appropriate or not. Whilst perusing some older posts, I stumbled across this fic. It's been linked on this thread before, so I am assuming the author is okay with me doing so again.

It's a flirty fic (the description is in the blurb). I was surprised about some of the character insights, in a good way.

[Falcon Horus]

Both kinds of slash kinda weird me out.

Mmm... yeah... nevermind...

I'm just wondering what is the ratio of women and men on gateworld?

Look at the threads where fans drool over the male actors and characters and you have your answer (which sadly means female actors and characters are being ignored most of time)... the ratio is thus most likely more women than men. Excluding the gay folks who drool over their own gender (they're probably in the minority).

Absolutely. Good writing is the key. Hey, I actually liked Keller and thought McKeller was sweet in SGA-Rising. I disliked both passionately on screen.

I wouldn't say I disliked them with a passion (that's reserved for the S/J-ship on SG1) but I did have a clear disliking to the pairing simply because I felt it missed chemistry, and the character that was Keller was missing depth and background. I love Jewel very much, but I didn't like her as Keller (there were a few moments that Keller was good though, but only a few).

[Southern Red]

*drops into thread*

Whoo-hoo. I "accidentally" went Black Friday shopping last night ... and this morning ... and this afternoon. But we got a new 40" TV with surprisingly little hassle (so I got a "new" TV as well ), a $39 HP wireless printer that I had to return and exchange because the glass inside the scanner bed was broken, and a new Nikon 16MP camera for $69. All in all, we did pretteh good!

madness reigns, you're more than welcome to use my Photobucket account as well. I have Sparky-related screen caps organized by season, as well as a general menagerie of Sparky photos. Snurch whatever your little heart desires.

Great score. Those kinds of deals are the reason most people brave the crowds. I shopped online and saved 60% on one item and got free shipping, plus the store gave me a $30 coupon to use later.

Maybe..? I've missed a few pages so I have quite a bit of catching up to do. Could you tell me which page it's on, and I'll make sure to read it!

Over here, our big "crazy sale day" is on Boxing Day (the day after Christmas), but, this year, they're trying to make Black Friday more of a Canadian thing, ("they" being whoever it is that makes the decisions for the country...oh wait...the government does) because people actually fly over to America for it, so they're probably thinking they can get Canadians to stay and spend here, to get that sort of phenomenon over here as well. *shrugs*

Oh, that's right. I knew about Boxing Day but I didn't know it too had grown so big. Not really surprised by the Canadians coming over the border. Anything for a bargain, heh. We don't call it Boxing Day, but years ago the day after Christmas was a huge shopping day. I used to go and buy Christmas cards and wrapping paper for the next year, plus when I was a teenager I'd go and spend all my Christmas gift money on clothes. Everything would be reduced an average of 50%. Now it all happens before Christmas.

The newer members probably wouldn't have heard me comment on the subject, but I've probably been the most vocal *grits teeth* supporter of Sheyla on this thread. I know what they were trying to do early on, the cave scene shows me that. There were hints here and there in s1 between the two (like, John getting Teyla's blessing to get power-cougared by Athar) as well as the odd anvil dropped by others (Bates having a tanty about his CO's "feelings"), as well as a very personal argument during LFP. They'd been burned with Sam/Jack in SG-1 (OMG, it's the ship that makes me hate shipping. They brought it up when they thought they had a season or two to go, but then it became this giant anchor that had to be dragged through every scene featuring the two of them. When they inserted it into Heroes Part II and didn't do anything with it, it made me want to throw something at the tv. I could go on....but this is not what I started harping on about ) It's my opinion that they continued baggage of Sam/Jack soured them against shipping too early, so for sheyla, they were going to drop some heavier anvils in s4, with a canonisation in s5 (when they thought the show would end - s6 at the latest (yes I know they thought the same thing about SG-1 but the likelihood of SGA continuing past s6 would have been very low indeed)).

The problem with this is, as has been mentioned, actor chemistry (and the lack of a show bible to remind writers to drop the odd hint). By putting the ship on the back burner for a couple of years, it relied on actor chemistry to 'carry it' until such time as they decided they were going to reactivate it. The multitude of ships for both John and Teyla would indicate that 'standby mode' turned out to be 'off'.



There are maybe four crucial scenes from s4/early s5 that if I ignore, then I don't mind Keller at all. It helps in fic that I don't have to hear her speak, that voice didn't do much for me either.



Re Jack, perhaps he was a little talkative? I do like the fic though, it's very well written

You summed up perfectly how I feel about Sheyla too. I hope us talking about this won't get us modded again, but I feel it's important to discuss other ships in relation to how you feel about yours. Repeatedly over the years during the height of the "ship war" I tried to explain to advocates of that ship that I did see some of what they were seeing, but my objection was solely that I didn't like it. Yes, I saw all the anvils. Yes, I saw what TPTB were trying to do, but they ultimately failed. I could never see the average viewer buying it, and that opinion was proven time and time again in my own life by the people I know who don't go on forums but just assumed that Sparky was the chosen ship. Now, I know others say the opposite, but I'm just going by my own experience. Perhaps it would have helped if TPTB had given Joe and Rachel a little guidance. I think it was Rachel who later said that they never talked about how their characters felt, and Joe finally decided on his own that Shep was jealous in S4. The writers should have sat down with them and explained just where they were going so that they would have incorporated the final outcome for their relationship into their acting. In actuality, it just looked like they ignored each other for months and then one day decided to throw in a look or two. Plus the ridiculous notion that beating each other with sticks was supposed to show sexual tension. What in the world were they thinking?

Chemistry has always been in the eye of the beholder, but it also takes a discerning eye to know when it's real and is generally agreed upon by unbiased observers. Just read movie and TV reviews by critics who declare that a couple lacks chemistry and thus, are unbelievable as a couple. Sometimes it's so very obvious, and other times you can choose to disagree. It all comes down to emotion, whether you like the look of the actors, how you think they relate to each other, even other shows you've seen them in. It's so very subjective, and no one should say the other person is wrong to like a certain ship. Also, no one should say the other person is wrong not to like a ship and demand that they change their mind. That, I think is what got everybody around here all riled up. Well, that and the fact that the Weir haters were unhinged and irrational, but that's another story for another day.

Mmm... yeah... nevermind...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...er/dohhead.gif



Look at the threads where fans drool over the male actors and characters and you have your answer (which sadly means female actors and characters are being ignored most of time)... the ratio is thus most likely more women than men. Excluding the gay folks who drool over their own gender (they're probably in the minority).



I wouldn't say I disliked them with a passion (that's reserved for the S/J-ship on SG1) but I did have a clear disliking to the pairing simply because I felt it missed chemistry, and the character that was Keller was missing depth and background. I love Jewel very much, but I didn't like her as Keller (there were a few moments that Keller was good though, but only a few).

GW is definitely female heavy, and a good number of the McShep slashers are women. Hard for me to wrap my head around but true nonetheless. I met some of them at the con I went to. Nice people, but they just can't understand why everybody doesn't see what, to them, is just very obvious. So, again I say, ship is in the eye of the beholder.

I loved Jewel from Firefly, and I didn't really dislike Keller. I thought the character was badly written, too young for the part and wrong for Rodney, but none of that was Jewel's fault. I actually feel sorry for her having to put up with all the hate.