Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Probie]

Quick hello!!!

I have a link for people who bought the dvd of the French convention.
You can follow the progress. link

[Southern Red]

There have been so many great conversations going on here in the last couple of days.



Both John’s and Elizabeth’s past personal lives left a lot to be desired and one will always wish that we could get more on it, heck, sometimes it felt as if we knew more about Ronon and how he came to be the man he is just from the three Ronon centric episodes then we did anyone else and I wish they could have made at least a few episodes that gave us more about their background, though nothing like SGU and not something that would have taken over the actual plotline. It’s a bit ironic that the two season three episodes (Elizabeth in ‘The Real World’ and John in ‘Phantoms’) that gave us a bit of backstories were both brought forward by alien technology which means that while they did ring through it was still created to unnerve them and we can’t really know how much of it is true.

We do know some things about both Elizabeth and John and some really interesting things at that that while you wish that they could have developed more on the show we at least say that they are canon.



He could have defiantly been that, I’m thinking that he at least had some job that require him to work a lot, and if not that then maybe something either political or maybe he was a university professor, I don’t know why I think these things I guess it was partly to do with what we got from Elizabeth’s mother and how she was presented and partly to do with Elizabeth herself and that she don’t just work with politics as a diplomat but also teach university classes and it feels a bit like she must have gotten her views and passions from somewhere and I think her father could have been that person.

We truly have gotten deeper in the last few days, haven't we?

There is a really fine line between keeping a character's background secret and revealing too much. With these writers, I don't trust them to ever do it right. I think if they had started delving too deeply into everyone's past they would have messed that up too.

I always thought John was a very complicated character that got the short end of the stick from TPTW.

More conflict would have been nice to see but I always saw her going along was a realization on her part that words alone can not stop pure evil.

I think that's it. Even more than the Goul'd, the Wraith seemed to have no redeeming value whatsoever. Though I guess you could argue the Goul'd didn't either. But I think Elizabeth realized they had to be exterminated for the good of all humanity. The Michael project was her last effort to avoid the inevitable, I think.

Very good points. I suppose that the number of responsibilities John held in Seasons 4 and 5 was no more overwhelming than those he held in the earlier seasons. However, to me, it always seemed as if he was more stressed out in Seasons 4 and 5. Maybe it was simply due to the radical course the galaxy was taking with the Replicators on the rise and Todd becoming a "frienemy" Wraith. It wasn't just John who became darker later on; the show itself became darker.

I have to agree with how Carson, Elizabeth, and Kate were the people that were the least likely to get killed. They were civilians whose roles were back in the city, and they shouldn't have been in any apparent danger; ironically, both Carson and Kate met their demise in Atlantis itself. On the other hand, John and his team often traveled off-world to perform their duties, and they always somehow managed to survive every near-disaster they got themselves into. While I would never have wanted any of them to be taken off the show, it was as if they were invulnerable and indispensable. The fact that civilians were killed in the line of duty and not soldiers or warriors did demonstrate that the roles of the civilian main characters were not as vital to the show as the roles of the members on the main off-world team.



There was a scene in "Remnants" that directly mentioned Elizabeth that got cut out?! I never knew that... that's truly a shame... I noticed that in Season 4, Elizabeth was actually referred to in a number of episodes. For example, in "Doppelganger," when the team was in now Colonel Carter's office, brainstorming ideas of how to deal with the alien entity, John offered, "Maybe there's a way to... I don't know, reason with it." Colonel Carter subsequently said, "Being in Doctor Weir's old office made you think of that, didn't it?" This was one of my favorite scenes that referred to Elizabeth after she left the show; it truly exhibited how she had impacted the way her city made decisions, as she believed in a more moral solution rather than aggression and violence every time.

However, that was in early Season 4; Elizabeth was referred to less and less in Season 5, especially after "Ghost in the Machine," The team just had to accept that she was truly gone, and mentioning her all the time would have only brought back all the pain. I do wonder what John's reaction would have been, though, if in "Remnants," Kolya had started taunting John about how Elizabeth was gone, and she's never going to come back. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine John shooting Kolya dead (again).

We found several times in S4-5 when John made the "woobie" face even when Elizabeth wasn't mentioned but something was said that we thought reminded him of her. For example, in S&R when he got so emotional telling Keller he had once lost a chance to rescue a team member. Maybe he meant Ford, but maybe not. There were also several others that I'm hoping someone else can remember.

However, as far as the few times when they actually mentioned her, I don't know if you know this or not, but she never would have been mentioned again had it not been for Joe F. He has said numerous times at cons that he went to TPTB and complained that she would not be forgotten and that John would try hard to find her. The scene in Reunion when he tells Carter that he won't give up trying to find her was a direct result of that. However, as far as TPTB went, that was the end of it and they seldom brought her up again. Joe, however, kept making those faces to remind us. Bless him. And to this day, he's still pissed off about how Torri was treated.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family and College Football Saturday! Good luck to everyone's teams!

*waves to Probie*

I always thought John was a very complicated character that got the short end of the stick from TPTW.

More conflict would have been nice to see but I always saw her going along was a realization on her part that words alone can not stop pure evil.

Well said.

I've always felt sorry for John how he didn't seem to have anybody that he could be considered very close with. We see how in "Enemy At the Gate," he is the last one to join the team on the balcony in the ending. In "Vegas," we also see the kind of man he would be if he wasn't the military commander of Atlantis: solitary and broken, having no purpose in the world.

JoeF has spoken a lot about how much he enjoyed doing Vegas and it's take on how things might have gone differently for Sheppard. And about how he didn't like how Sheppard was all alone at the end of "Enemy at the Gate" but everyone else had someone.

Hmmm... I've never watched SG-1 - it's not as appealing to me as Atlantis is. But that is an interesting quote. From this and the scenes of Elizabeth with her mother in "The Real World," I think one can surmise that she is actually pretty close with both of her parents, and I do appreciate this. We don't recognize her only as a hard-edged diplomat, but also as a kind woman with a lot of heart. She wears a professional facade for work, but she reveals a warm and compassionate side for her family and friends.



All very true. While each of the main cast members were important, it was civilians like Elizabeth, Carson, and Kate who brought humanity and morality to the show. Their characters were what balanced out the belligerence of John's team and assuaged the sense of darkness that overshadowed Atlantis and the rest of the galaxy. They had great chemistry with the team and brought out so many character moments. Even if it didn't seem like it, they actually played a very major role in the show, and that's why a sense of humanity and morality in the show was lost when they were written out.

The heart of Atlantis. *sighs*

We truly have gotten deeper in the last few days, haven't we?

There is a really fine line between keeping a character's background secret and revealing too much. With these writers, I don't trust them to ever do it right. I think if they had started delving too deeply into everyone's past they would have messed that up too.

*nods* I think the complaints about not getting enough character background during SGA may be what spurred them to go into such detail for characters on SGU. Unfortunately, it felt like TPTW simply swung to the other extreme rather than trying to find the balanced approach that fans seemed to be asking for.

We found several times in S4-5 when John made the "woobie" face even when Elizabeth wasn't mentioned but something was said that we thought reminded him of her. For example, in S&R when he got so emotional telling Keller he had once lost a chance to rescue a team member. Maybe he meant Ford, but maybe not. There were also several others that I'm hoping someone else can remember.

The one that really sticks with me is from Harmony, when John is talking to the little brat princess about the responsibilities of being a leader, "Gotta put the needs of your people before anything else, including your own." Those words and his face just screamed to me as a reminder of Elizabeth's sacrifice. *wibbles*

However, as far as the few times when they actually mentioned her, I don't know if you know this or not, but she never would have been mentioned again had it not been for Joe F. He has said numerous times at cons that he went to TPTB and complained that she would not be forgotten and that John would try hard to find her. The scene in Reunion when he tells Carter that he won't give up trying to find her was a direct result of that. However, as far as TPTB went, that was the end of it and they seldom brought her up again. Joe, however, kept making those faces to remind us. Bless him. And to this day, he's still pissed off about how Torri was treated.

And we all appreciate his loyalty to Torri and the rest of his castmates in real life just as John is loyal to his teammates. In JoeF We Trust, baby.

[Brie]

I just love John’s "woobie" face and the way Joe knida tricked the writers by adding it in so that you understood what he wanted to have said without actually going of the script and changing it.

There is a really fine line between keeping a character's background secret and revealing too much. With these writers, I don't trust them to ever do it right. I think if they had started delving too deeply into everyone's past they would have messed that up too.

*nods* I think the complaints about not getting enough character background during SGA may be what spurred them to go into such detail for characters on SGU. Unfortunately, it felt like TPTW simply swung to the other extreme rather than trying to find the balanced approach that fans seemed to be asking for.

Yeah, they defiantly had trouble sometimes to know how to do thing within reason and not going too far in either direction.
I did however always thought ‘Sateda’ and even ‘The Runner’ was good at showing both Ronan’s past without ruining/taking away from the present.

JoeF has spoken a lot about how much he enjoyed doing Vegas and it's take on how things might have gone differently for Sheppard. And about how he didn't like how Sheppard was all alone at the end of "Enemy at the Gate" but everyone else had someone.

Well, he couldn’t have someone since Elizabeth wasn’t there…haha, sorry couldn’t help but go there.

The heart of Atlantis. *sighs*

Elizabeth was the heart of Atlantis while Carson was the soul of Atlantis and getting rid of both of them meant that a huge part of Atlantis wasn’t there anymore.

*nods* I think the complaints about not getting enough character background during SGA may be what spurred them to go into such detail for characters on SGU. Unfortunately, it felt like TPTW simply swung to the other extreme rather than trying to find the balanced approach that fans seemed to be asking for.

Yeah, they defiantly didn’t know how to do thing within reason. I always thought ‘Sateda’ and even ‘The Runner’ was good at showing both Ronan’s past without ruining/taking away from the present.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

Hello everyone, I am new here, and for that reason i am not quite sure how this works, but i am giving it a try. ;D
I begun following / reading your thread from the beginning, a few weeks ago and i would love to be part of it too. You all seem to be so funny and i would love to be part of such a group. Not to mention i am a huge Stargate Atlantis fan and definitely a fellow Sparky, hehe! ;D
I begun reading Atlantis Rising a few weeks ago too, and have now finished "Box of Dreams", i can hardly wait for Adoremus now! Keep up with the good work!

[Sparky She-Demon]

Welcome to the thread, Pearl of Atlantis76.

[Brie]

Welcome to our little crazy place on Gateworld,Pearl of Atlantis76 you've defiantly come to the right place if you're a fellow Sparky fan.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Welcome to our little crazy place on Gateworld,Pearl of Atlantis76 you've defiantly come to the right place if you're a fellow Sparky fan.

Does anyone but Sparky fans come here and post?

[Brie]

Does anyone but Sparky fans come here and post?

Not that I know of, I know there are some that are fans of or at least don’t mind other pairing (with John and Elizabeth with someone else) which is totally fine and some really like John and Elizabeth’s’ friendship but maybe are not fans of them as more which is perfectly fine as well (even if the thread is more about the ship right now), all of it is fine as long as you stay within the GateWorld rules.
Though I do know looking back that there was some trouble in the beginning, back when the thread was first created and before I even came here with people who didn’t like someone or some pairings (not just here) that felt the need to venture into those threads anyway and express their dislike. But right now at least I do think that we’re all Sparky shippers in one way or the other.

[Southern Red]

Hello everyone, I am new here, and for that reason i am not quite sure how this works, but i am giving it a try. ;D
I begun following / reading your thread from the beginning, a few weeks ago and i would love to be part of it too. You all seem to be so funny and i would love to be part of such a group. Not to mention i am a huge Stargate Atlantis fan and definitely a fellow Sparky, hehe! ;D
I begun reading Atlantis Rising a few weeks ago too, and have now finished "Box of Dreams", i can hardly wait for Adoremus now! Keep up with the good work!

Welcome to the thread. I saw you over on the SGA-Rising thread also but didn't know you are a Sparky fan.

Does anyone but Sparky fans come here and post?

Everyone is welcome here as long as they don't try to tell us why Sparky isn't their favorite ship or tell us why we are delusional and/or some other ship is better.

Falcon Horus is not a Sparky shipper per se but she is a friend of the thread and one of our most active posters.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Fair enough. I was just wondering!

[Falcon Horus]

*repeats over and over*

Kate's not dead! Kate's not dead! Kate's not dead! Kate's not dead! Kate's not dead!

We truly have gotten deeper in the last few days, haven't we?

Lengthy talks - missa likes.

Almost like in the old days when we all watched it for the first time - although I guess you could say that with what we know now, there's even more to say.

...the Goul'd...

Goa'uld

And to this day, he's still pissed off about how Torri was treated.

Not just him.

I begun following / reading your thread from the beginning, a few weeks ago and i would love to be part of it too.

You read the whole thread?!?



Mad respect! *bows*

Does anyone but Sparky fans come here and post?

I do.

Not that I know of, I know there are some that are fans of or at least don’t mind other pairing (with John and Elizabeth with someone else) which is totally fine and some really like John and Elizabeth’s’ friendship but maybe are not fans of them as more which is perfectly fine as well (even if the thread is more about the ship right now)....

What happens in canon, stays in canon.

And occasionally transfers smoothly into fanon. My n° 1 het-pairing is John/Kate and of course n° 1 slash pairing is Kate/Teyla. Then there's my n° 1 threesome which happens to be Sparky+1 (Kate/John/Elizabeth).

But as far as canon goes - it's Sparky for me.

Everyone is welcome here as long as they don't try to tell us why Sparky isn't their favorite ship or tell us why we are delusional and/or some other ship is better.

When they do, they'll get noodled! Or <- eaten by Wraith...

Falcon Horus is not a Sparky shipper per se but she is a friend of the thread and one of our most active posters.

What she said.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Is it obvious that I'm a Sparky shipper?

[Falcon Horus]

Is it obvious that I'm a Sparky shipper?

I wouldn't have guessed...

[Falcon Horus]

Speaking of being active - I went and checked my activity level and almost fell out of my comfy bed... I'm the 6th most active person in the thread. That is so cool!