Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Could you explain the difference maybe...

Sure, easy. Perception: John gave Elizabeth the present to make up for being so stupid with Chaya and how he acted in HZ. Author's intent according to JM: He was just showing his softer side by being nice.

Another one with more of a contrast: Perception: John showed multiple times that he is a closet math genius and it surprised no one that he passed the Mensa test. Author's intent: Oh ha ha, nobody believes all that so we have the truth come out when Rodney and Daniel make fun of him. Not that I'm still pissed off royally about that or anything

There are lots of others too that I'm sure JM will point out as he goes along. I have a feeling a lot of them will make all of us *headdesk*.

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family Saturday!



Yay, post-a-thon!

Must find a crown for the Lemming. No Evil Queen is complete without a crown.



Eeeeeee! The Cuteness! Awesome!



To quote a certain Vulcan, "Fascinating."

Sounds like Mallozzi's still got his Rodney-love rose-colored glasses on. Not terribly surprised there.



Have you ever seen Atlantis: The Lost Empire? No songs (until the end credits) and lots of explosions. Certainly not your average Disney movie.

Of course, there's always Disney-Pixar's latest offering, Brave:

We saw those previews. Brave looks really cute. We just watched Zookeeper last night. Adorable cute movie with some surprising voices.

[drewandian]

SR I think perception goes a lot farther than the writer's intent. I see it like this - I may write a situation a particular way, with a very specific idea of what it all means in my mind BUT if the reader perceives the situation differently then that's what it becomes. Once the words are on the paper and the scene's been acted out, the writer loses all control to their audience and how THEY interpret it. (I took an entire class my last year as a psych major on perception)

SK I love love love Disney's Atlantis:The Lost Empire! (so do my boys, as a matter of fact)

post-a-thon?

[Falcon Horus]

Sure, easy. Perception: John gave Elizabeth the present to make up for being so stupid with Chaya and how he acted in HZ. Author's intent according to JM: He was just showing his softer side by being nice.

Another one with more of a contrast: Perception: John showed multiple times that he is a closet math genius and it surprised no one that he passed the Mensa test. Author's intent: Oh ha ha, nobody believes all that so we have the truth come out when Rodney and Daniel make fun of him. Not that I'm still pissed off royally about that or anything

There are lots of others too that I'm sure JM will point out as he goes along. I have a feeling a lot of them will make all of us *headdesk*.

Thank you!

[ShipperWriter]

*slides into thread, panting*

Hey, everybody! Just checking in while we finish the last of our moving. I don't know how this move got turned into such a long and drawn out process. Probably because my sister didn't bother to ask for yesterday off, so Mom and I pretty much did everything ourselves.

Anyhow. No Internet at our new place until Tuesday, but my phone can open GW fairly well and there's a Starbucks around the corner. I'm trying my bestest to join in on the post-a-thon tomorrow. I just flat out need a break!

Back to work!

*zips out*

[Southern Red]

SR I think perception goes a lot farther than the writer's intent. I see it like this - I may write a situation a particular way, with a very specific idea of what it all means in my mind BUT if the reader perceives the situation differently then that's what it becomes. Once the words are on the paper and the scene's been acted out, the writer loses all control to their audience and how THEY interpret it. (I took an entire class my last year as a psych major on perception)

SK I love love love Disney's Atlantis:The Lost Empire! (so do my boys, as a matter of fact)

post-a-thon?

Hear hear. I approve of your perception of perception.

I don't think JM and the other writers get it though. He keeps trying to explain things that shouldn't need an explanation. I know they wrote the scripts intending to show things a certain way, but if the majority of the audience didn't get it, then why bend over backwards to explain to them how wrong they were? Why didn't they just go with the flow? And I'm not just talking about Sparky. It goes from the Mensa thing to how they see Rodney as such a perfect character to some of the differences in opinion of what kind of a leader Elizabeth is.

I always thought one of the good things about this show was that so many diverse people could have so many different views of things, and it has always made me sad that some opinions are not as respected as others. But whatever, the show is over. If JM wants to go back and retcon everything, I guess it's his right.

[Falcon Horus]

If JM wants to go back and retcon everything, I guess it's his right.

It won't make him more popular though.

[Nolamom]

speaking of perception and writer intent - think of the character Lucius Lavin. Probably the most despised (by women at least) character ever written. The writers thought he was funny and that it was all a big HAHA. They even brought him back for a second episode. You're right - once the story is out of the writer's head/hands, it becomes the purview of the reader/viewer and their interpretation.

It's a case of: "I'm reacting to what I heard, maybe not what you meant to say."

[Brie]

JM has this to say about Before I Sleep:

In the opening scene, Sheppard’s birthday gift to Weir goes a long way toward strengthening the (recently frayed) bond between the two while simultaneously endearing John to the audience. Yes, he’s a guy who killed some 60 enemy combatants, challenged Elizabeth’s authority, and showed suspect judgment in his romantic pursuit of an outsider but, on the flip side, he’s someone who thinks enough of his friends to: a) take the time to find out their birth day and b) go through the trouble of getting them a present. It’s a small gesture but an incredibly meaningful one.

He goes on to talk about how Rodney is a hero in this episode. No mention of Elizabeth's sacrifice.

And we get this tidbit on The Brotherhood:


This episode also marks the first mention of Sheppard’s mensa test. We learn he passed but never joined, shocking McKay by suggesting that there’s more to this low-key rebel than meets the eye. But was he on the level? Years later, in the fifth season mid-season two-parter, Rodney isn’t so sure…

So far, it is just as I predicted. He's being a bit careful to talk about just the characters, not the actors. So I guess I can't accuse him of ignoring JF, but he talks a lot about Rodney in every episode. For example, in The Defiant One, he's all about how Rodney was a hero. Again. Unbelievable. It's like he's not reading his own scripts.

So I ask the question, what's real, perception or the intent of the writer? There's a good argument for both.

It took me a while to remember when Rodney was the hero in that episode but I guess he meant when he stayed behind so the other could escape which in a way was great of him however they did kind of ruin it by having the ”original” Rodney act as if it was the most absurd thing he had ever heard, and then it is a bit weird to single out Rodney as a hero, I mean old-Liz also said that both Carson and Ford had died when they tried to get people into the jumpers, that was heroic too but Elizabeth was by far the major hero in that episode and I must admit that it sucks that JM couldn’t at least take let other characters shine in at least a few episodes when that’s what the fans saw. But oh well, like you said, the shows over now and we can’t change anything and we all have our way of viewing things and more time than not wasn’t what the writers intended but sometimes it’s easier to view things from the viewer’s perspective then being the one who worked on something since when you just watch it you just get to see the finished result while when you work on something you’ve seen many different versions of it and what you thought when you started might not be what it turns out to be in the end.

[drewandian]

It took me a while to remember when Rodney was the hero in that episode but I guess he meant when he stayed behind so the other could escape which in a way was great of him however they did kind of ruin it by having the ”original” Rodney act as if it was the most absurd thing he had ever heard, and then it is a bit weird to single out Rodney as a hero, I mean old-Liz also said that both Carson and Ford had died when they tried to get people into the jumpers, that was heroic too but Elizabeth was by far the major hero in that episode and I must admit that it sucks that JM couldn’t at least take let other characters shine in at least a few episodes when that’s what the fans saw. But oh well, like you said, the shows over now and we can’t change anything and we all have our way of viewing things and more time than not wasn’t what the writers intended but sometimes it’s easier to view things from the viewer’s perspective then being the one who worked on something since when you just watch it you just get to see the finished result while when you work on something you’ve seen many different versions of it and what you thought when you started might not be what it turns out to be in the end.

this right here...i don't know how many times i've started writing something (fanfic or original fic) and it's mutated to become totally different that what i'd intended it to be. and then have it read by someone and they see something COMPLETELY different than what i thought i wrote.

[JT-2]

Sure, easy. Perception: John gave Elizabeth the present to make up for being so stupid with Chaya and how he acted in HZ. Author's intent according to JM: He was just showing his softer side by being nice.

Another one with more of a contrast: Perception: John showed multiple times that he is a closet math genius and it surprised no one that he passed the Mensa test. Author's intent: Oh ha ha, nobody believes all that so we have the truth come out when Rodney and Daniel make fun of him. Not that I'm still pissed off royally about that or anything

There are lots of others too that I'm sure JM will point out as he goes along. I have a feeling a lot of them will make all of us *headdesk*.

I made a similar comment on Twitter and then found you talking about the same thing here. *snorts*

His episode reviews are making me *headdesk* harder and harder each time. At a certain point it's going to give me brain trauma.

Oh, and Sanctuary as the worst episode of the franchise? It wasn't good, but it can't compete with the likes of Trio or Brainstorm. But of course, those were written by his friend and not an outside writer. *rolleyes*

Edit - and then of course, those were both about Rodney, so of course they're instant classics. /sarcasm

[Anuna]

JM has this to say about Before I Sleep:

In the opening scene, Sheppard’s birthday gift to Weir goes a long way toward strengthening the (recently frayed) bond between the two while simultaneously endearing John to the audience. Yes, he’s a guy who killed some 60 enemy combatants, challenged Elizabeth’s authority, and showed suspect judgment in his romantic pursuit of an outsider but, on the flip side, he’s someone who thinks enough of his friends to: a) take the time to find out their birth day and b) go through the trouble of getting them a present. It’s a small gesture but an incredibly meaningful one.

He goes on to talk about how Rodney is a hero in this episode. No mention of Elizabeth's sacrifice.

And we get this tidbit on The Brotherhood:


This episode also marks the first mention of Sheppard’s mensa test. We learn he passed but never joined, shocking McKay by suggesting that there’s more to this low-key rebel than meets the eye. But was he on the level? Years later, in the fifth season mid-season two-parter, Rodney isn’t so sure…

So far, it is just as I predicted. He's being a bit careful to talk about just the characters, not the actors. So I guess I can't accuse him of ignoring JF, but he talks a lot about Rodney in every episode. For example, in The Defiant One, he's all about how Rodney was a hero. Again. Unbelievable. It's like he's not reading his own scripts.

So I ask the question, what's real, perception or the intent of the writer? There's a good argument for both.

For the love of Loki, did we even watch the same show? I suppose he had an AU in his head in which everything revolved around Rodney, his wannabe alter ego. One has to ask themselves if he could possibly be any more ridiculous telling us all that we were watching something we weren't and that we all have collective amnesia or altered memories or something.

Perhaps he was enjoying that stuff Lucius had? *headdesks*

[Southern Red]

I made a similar comment on Twitter and then found you talking about the same thing here. *snorts*

His episode reviews are making me *headdesk* harder and harder each time. At a certain point it's going to give me brain trauma.

Oh, and Sanctuary as the worst episode of the franchise? It wasn't good, but it can't compete with the likes of Trio or Brainstorm. But of course, those were written by his friend and not an outside writer. *rolleyes*

Edit - and then of course, those were both about Rodney, so of course they're instant classics. /sarcasm

For the love of Loki, did we even watch the same show? I suppose he had an AU in his head in which everything revolved around Rodney, his wannabe alter ego. One has to ask themselves if he could possibly be any more ridiculous telling us all that we were watching something we weren't and that we all have collective amnesia or altered memories or something.

Perhaps he was enjoying that stuff Lucius had? *headdesks*

IKR, Mr. SR wandered in here when I was making that post and I told him what was going on. He couldn't believe JM would actually go back and change the meaning of the script to fit his later idea of JS as a dumb pilot. *headshake*

I'm betting that everything he writes for the whole 5 years will be all about Rodney. I said when he started that JF would never be mentioned, and so far aside from saying essentially that they couldn't find anybody else so they hired him, he hasn't written his name. Plenty about Sheppard, but all his idea of Sheppard, not that guy we all knew and loved. I'd say more, but big brother is watching.

[Anuna]

IKR, Mr. SR wandered in here when I was making that post and I told him what was going on. He couldn't believe JM would actually go back and change the meaning of the script to fit his later idea of JS as a dumb pilot. *headshake*

I'm betting that everything he writes for the whole 5 years will be all about Rodney. I said when he started that JF would never be mentioned, and so far aside from saying essentially that they couldn't find anybody else so they hired him, he hasn't written his name. Plenty about Sheppard, but all his idea of Sheppard, not that guy we all knew and loved. I'd say more, but big brother is watching.

If you have the desire to say more, my LJ is always open for business! But how classy he is, saying they hired Joe because there was nobody else. SO classy. Even Rodney would not be amused by this.

[Southern Red]

If you have the desire to say more, my LJ is always open for business! But how classy he is, saying they hired Joe because there was nobody else. SO classy. Even Rodney would not be amused by this.

I have tons more to say but it will have to wait until tomorrow AM. We're heading out to dinner. Why does SR Jr. always pick places an hour away?

[Anuna]

I have tons more to say but it will have to wait until tomorrow AM. We're heading out to dinner. Why does SR Jr. always pick places an hour away?

I'm patient. Also, a rant is never too late. It arrives precisely when it wants to!

Okay, bad pun! Off to bed now. *hugs the thread*