Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lexa Jayde]

Spoiler:

I'm pretty sure this in Critical Mass is the big leadership blowup, as you've put it. I don't have anything on the last two episodes, but I suspect that the darker twist that Torri talked about is that Weir gets progressively more and more ruthless. We see her unwillingness to authorize torture to get information they desperately need in Critical Mass. Then in Michael she authorizes experimenting on a prisoner. In Coup d'État she and Sheppard seem to organize a double-cross of the Genii (though I may have misinterpreted that; at the least, a group of sick people come into Atlantis and she orders them secured by the military). I suspect that by the end of the season, she'll have gotten to a very dark, ruthless place, and those around her will have to bring her back.

that is soooo cool... i love what is happening to liz this season....
gotta fly... gonna be late for class

[Hatcheter]

Okay, so just wondering ('cause I'm really trying to avoid cleaning my house for company), those of you who have seen season 2, what do you think is the shippiest episode so far, and why? (Have we done this already? I was very bad and never did get around to reading all those pages I missed while I was without internet.)

Never hurts to ask again. I'll probably have to say 'Conversion', as it had the most and strongest interactions between the two.

[Bama]

Spoiler:

I'm pretty sure this in Critical Mass is the big leadership blowup, as you've put it. I don't have anything on the last two episodes, but I suspect that the darker twist that Torri talked about is that Weir gets progressively more and more ruthless. We see her unwillingness to authorize torture to get information they desperately need in Critical Mass. Then in Michael she authorizes experimenting on a prisoner. In Coup d'État she and Sheppard seem to organize a double-cross of the Genii (though I may have misinterpreted that; at the least, a group of sick people come into Atlantis and she orders them secured by the military). I suspect that by the end of the season, she'll have gotten to a very dark, ruthless place, and those around her will have to bring her back.

I love it when a character has to 'go against' what or who they are and that is exactly what Elizabeth is having to do with these situations. The dire nature of what is happening is leading her to water she doesn't want to drink and never has before. She's in uncharted personal conflict territiory here and I think it's obvious that she'll begin to question whether she's strong enough to handle all this. I think she already has. She's a caring person with a civilian heart to go along with her civilian training. Professionally, she's fought for peace her entire life and now, she finds herself in a situation where peace simply is not an option. She fears losing I think more than anything. Anyone who has been as ultra successful at such a young age as she has obviously been hasn't felt too many set-backs. We see her 'deal' with her personal 'set-back' with Simon by plunging herself into Atlantis full-force. What does she do when Atlantis is the problem and not the 'answer' for her? I think it all points to having to turn to another human being and do something else foreign to her. I think she will find herself needing Shep to be her rock and reaching out to him on an entire new level. I just sense that her need of him like that may, at some point, place him in a situation where he must choose between professional responsibility and personal responsibiltiy. Of course, I'm just babbling some desires and thoughts out loud here. This is probably complete and utter hogwash on my part.

[Dorka]

Cool. Thanks Torri

And I agree about the potential danger of a show becoming too crowded and leaving less and less room for proper character development for supporting characters. CSI:LV was awful with that last season and I do not want to see it happen with Atlantis as well.

I totaly have to agree with you even if we don't ship for the same two persons in CSI:LV I only hope this doesn't happen with every TV show when they get more than 3 seasons!

[LurkerLa]

Umm... yeah, so that cleaning isn't going to be done by the time my friends show up. But I wanted them to have a pirates list to work off, and then I couldn't stop, and now I'm going to have to write a novel to accomodate all this. But I thought y'all might like to see the cast list for the pirate AU I'm thinking of. Hey, maybe someone out there will start an actual Pirate AU community or something, and it will be useful.

Cast list is at my journal.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

STAY CALM, PEOPLE! That was me saying that. It was Torri's response to how her character could deal with the darker stuff that's going on with her. What she said was

Spoiler:

she'd like Weir to question her ability to lead, consider whether she's out of her depth, maybe even think about resigning, but of course NOT resign. NOOOOOT resign!!!

Thanks for clarifying that little detail! I'll need to start taking notes as well. By then end of S3 this thread will be able to collaborate on an ecyclopedia of Shep/Weir!

Thanks for the new TLB spoilers Torri. I remember coming in here not wanting to read spoilers, but I decided speculation is half the fun lol.

Anyway, that ep sounds even more interesting--if that's possible. Question, what is this

Spoiler:

"leadership blowup"

people have been mentioning? (Btw, I haven't read the spoilers yet, but it really sounds like "Critical Mass" would be the ep where a

Spoiler:

leadeship blowup

takes place given the title.

Thanks,

Royal

[Melyanna]

Anyway, that ep sounds even more interesting--if that's possible. Question, what is this

Spoiler:

"leadership blowup"

people have been mentioning? (Btw, I haven't read the spoilers yet, but it really sounds like "Critical Mass" would be the ep where a

Spoiler:

leadeship blowup

takes place given the title.

Long story short, leaving out quite a few of the stickier details of the episode (especially as there's fairly convincing evidence that much of the episode was rewritten after the casting sides were sent out)...

Spoiler:

Someone inside Atlantis is sending out a beacon to the Wraith. This is the first indication that the Wraith have that the explosion in Siege III was a bluff. Also, someone broke into the mainframe and set some kind of encryption to keep people from stopping the things that are randomly starting around the city, like the inertial dampeners. Our intrepid heroes all have their own theories on who's behind it. Weir and Caldwell end up getting their hands on someone (I think they do specify that the prisoner is male) who has the code they need to get through the encryption and get full control of the city back. So Weir states that they're not going to get any information out of this guy, and Ronon says he can get it out of the prisoner in ten minutes. Everyone recognizes that he's talking about torture and/or physical intimidation.

Weir tells him no, while Caldwell says they shouldn't dismiss it so quickly. When she tells him that this isn't how she runs things, he tells her that her methods haven't gotten them very far in this case. I think we can probably assume that she goes ahead and authorizes it, despite her misgivings about it.

And yeah, I said I'd leave out the stickier bits, but it's pretty likely, given what I know about the episode, that the prisoner is a Goa'uld. So there is a human host to consider, and that's probably why Weir has such deep reservations about doing this. And this is why I think that this episode is most likely to be the one with her leadership breakdown, as Bama put it.

And before anyone asks, no, I don't know where John falls in this argument. He's not there during the conversation with Ronon and Caldwell, but since he has a suspect of his own, I think it's probably pretty likely that he would side with Elizabeth.

However. (Yes, I'm delving into even stickier stuff now.)

The actress who played Lieutenant Cadman in "Duet" (and whose name I've forgotten at the moment) said in an interview that they had invited her back for an episode in the second half of the season. From her description, it's probably this one; there's not another episode in the season to match it. But she described it as a bomb in the city, and everyone trying to figure out who it was. My suspicion is that they've changed the plot about the phone call to the Wraith to a bomb (which, frankly, makes more sense, especially if it's done by a Goa'uld). This also makes sense if they've decided to rewrite a scientist's role for a Marine. The basic structure of the story probably hasn't changed much, meaning that the torture stuff is probably still intact, but many of the details I've talked about may change.

And as an afterthought, I've realized that this probably means that the very childish squabbling between Rodney and John over John's flirting with the original character is probably gone. Another thing that the actress said was that the episode would get into Cadman's relationship with Beckett and how Rodney reacts to that.

Yikes, that's a lot of white.

[xfkirsten]

new spoiler!!

Spoiler:

according to last news's, "The Long Goodbye, 17th episode of the season, will concern an extraterrestrial warrior who has an account to regulate and which for that kidnaps Doctor Weir and Lieutenant Colonel Sheppard.

Is it possible for me to be any more excited for this episode? I'm dying for even just promo pics with the two of them in it!

[Melyanna]

Is it possible for me to be any more excited for this episode? I'm dying for even just promo pics with the two of them in it!

I'm honestly tempted to hop over to Joe Mallozzi's Q&A thread and ask if he knows why we've not seen any pictures of Torri so far. I'm sure he has no control over what pictures are released, but he might be able to either explain why or relay a message to someone else that we'd kind of like to see her again.

And, er, I've looked at what I posted on Critical Mass and kind of realized that while I said I was giving the short version, I spouted out almost everything I know about the episode. Go me.

[xfkirsten]

And, er, I've looked at what I posted on Critical Mass and kind of realized that while I said I was giving the short version, I spouted out almost everything I know about the episode. Go me.

I ain't complainin'!

[ubiquitous]

And as an afterthought, I've realized that this probably means that the very childish squabbling between Rodney and John over John's flirting with the original character is probably gone. Another thing that the actress said was that the episode would get into Cadman's relationship with Beckett and how Rodney reacts to that.[/spoiler]

Yikes, that's a lot of white.

Interesting... maybe

Spoiler:

Cadman is the host??

[Melyanna]

Interesting... maybe

Spoiler:

Cadman is the host??

Spoiler:

I think that's what both Rodney and John suspect. However, if they've swapped her for Seagle (the original character), then she's not.

[ubiquitous]

Ahh, ok. So to make this a bit clearer,

Spoiler:

do John and Weir suspect different people?

[Melyanna]

Ahh, ok. So to make this a bit clearer,

Spoiler:

do John and Weir suspect different people?

According to the original information, yes.

Spoiler:

I checked, and Elizabeth's suspect is definitely male, and in the original draft, John's suspect is a woman. If they've rewritten the script to feature Laura Cadman instead of Allison Seagle, then it's almost certain that Cadman is his suspect, though I have no idea why.

[ubiquitous]

According to the original information, yes.

Spoiler:

I checked, and Elizabeth's suspect is definitely male, and in the original draft, John's suspect is a woman. If they've rewritten the script to feature Laura Cadman instead of Allison Seagle, then it's almost certain that Cadman is his suspect, though I have no idea why.

Maybe it's just an excuse to make the ep even more character oriented by

Spoiler:

using a minor character who we know is linked to another major character romantically.